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Posted: 2/11/2008 6:54:30 AM | PolkadotGirl,
That's another problem guys have, I think. We. by nature, are linear thinkers; multi-tasking is something we have to learn to appreciate ;-).
Foreplay, yeah, sounds like it comes "before". We do that, then comes penetration then comes... well, yeah, both of us if it's going according to the Gant Chart ;-)
And following the chart is all good if you're building a house or working on something that you want to END AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. But that's not what I'd call the recipe for good sex.
And as per your suggestion that foreplay should come first, during, and after, hell yes! Sex can be a lot like climbing a ladder... and here I'm falling back on my construction roots. By "the code" you keep a minimum three point contact ;-). Not just "the one". Three.
Four if you can manage it, but, then, you don't move forward much... but, again, if being right there is so much fun, what's the hurry? ;-)
They say the same thing in massage training tapes and classes, by the way; you never break contact with your partner if you want to do the very best work you can ;-)
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 7:10:14 AM |
It's very true, some folks don't want sex to lead to marriage just yet; they're young (or old!), they want to have some real fun, and if somebody knows something more fun than great sex, bottle it! But, end of the day, near as I can tell, everybody wants to be special to somebody, nobody wants to be tossed aside and forgotten.
So why, then, are some men (maybe women, too, but I've been with men) not willing to make the effort? I've been with two men in the past few years who could have saved the relationship by showing even the slightest interest in good sex/satisfying me. Both the relationships had the potential to be life-long (one was my marriage). Neither man would discuss the problem or even admit that there WAS a problem. Both were upset when I ended it; how could they NOT have seen that coming?? It's not like I didn't warn them or tell them what I needed. I KNOW that both of these men are now lonely, horny, and miserable about it. WHY would they not DO something???? It would have taken so little effort on their part to have a great relationship. Lazy? Emotional baggage? Selfish? Maybe there are only a few men like this, but I attract them all? It's turned me off of men...if I have to take care of myself anyway, why bother? | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 7:31:49 AM | First...a few comments to the men...I think in order I read them:
eazk: communication verbal or not - I think that was not only insightful but important for women to pay attention to - so chicks talk, some don't. Whichever we are, probably is a good idea to make sure the guy knows it. *Some* men, well, they pay enough attention they'll figure us out. But *a lot* of men won't realize that she's trying to communicate something without words and won't pick up on it. So saying ahead of time "I"m not much into making noises or talking, but baby, my moans will tell you what I like" is a pretty easy way of getting those guys to pay attention. Kudos to you for figuring that out!
Cowboy: Loved the comment about marriage or chaining in the basement...hmmm...have you had much experience w/the latter? I live in a basement right now. Chaining a sexy guy to my bed and keeping him there as my personal sex slave? SOunds pretty good to me! 
Esad...you get the quote:
I know, it is sort of hard to figure out who is selfish until you are in the middle of things, but Pavlov figured it out a few years ago. If they are to dumb or selfish to learn to salivate at the sound of a bell, cut ‘em off. Eventually they will learn or get lonely. Maybe that is to simple..... It probably is.
NOw that was just hilarious!!! You know, if we just don't have sex w/them...they won't procreate and nature will just stop selecting for those kinds of dudes. Good thinkin! Of course, let's be fair...men can also skip those women that just lay there like a dead fish and we'll select them out too.
Now my contribution...married 12 years to a guy who just didn't do it for me. He was conservative in bed... I picked up on that early on so I didn't suggest anything kinky or push him out of that comfort zone. So, basically we had bad sex. Then eventually he let on that he liked to perform oral sex, what, maybe 9 years into the marriage? *finally* something new. I mean, he had his whole foreplay routine worked out...the same every time, never any deviation. 
Finally when our marriage was at the make or break point (about 1 1/4 yrs ago), I decided to try to make it work and to hell w/boring sex. Guess what, ladies... my ultra-conservative in bed guy responded pretty well to it! We shopped for toys together, bought a video, played around w/positions... ANd he didn't freak out over it! So at the very end of the marriage, sex finally improved a bit!
The point being that even if a guy seems like the kind who won't go for anything new, well, once he is good and comfortable with you, start slow and try introducing new stuff and see how he responds. He might just surprise you!!!! I learned to communicate what I like and don't like...how else can I expect a guy to hit the right spots?
(postnote: sex didn't fix our problems...so it stopped as the marriage deterioratedand I asked for divorce and now I"m happily on my way to my new life!!!! Separated and just waiting for the year of separation to be up!!!! But I did learn something from the experience! - I will NOT settle for bad sex again, just like desi said)
Kaylie | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 7:41:34 AM | One thing that hasn't been mentioned here.Maybe you guys should add it to your repertoire.I have done this a few times.And was told it adds to the intensity of the big O.The mind is a powerful tool.
When you know she is about to cum.(And against popual belief)some of us do.With your words tell her "No,dont cum yet"Make her hold back as long as possible.Make her(or you)keep doing what's being done.I promise you ,her friends will want to know why she's ben smileing all day. | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 8:04:18 AM | Desi,
Ok, thing is, some men... they're just... well, Darwin was a smart man, too; some stuff is just meant to end ;-).
Maybe guys are just hard to train when they get older, like ravens ;-). I had a raven once, picked him up off the highway, nursed him back to health (those beggars can really eat!), but, biological fact, you can't tame an adult raven, even one that owes you its life, not normally. Might be, and should be, a few exceptions, but, by and large... Nope. Want a pet raven, the experts say you need a young one, or one that was tamed when it was young. You see where I'm going with this?
I let him go, if anyone's wondering, after he was better. He's still around, I think. Lots of ravens around here...
Anyway, yeah, so, dunno what to tell you. Keep looking? Hell, maybe the thing would be to STOP looking, and go on with your life, and wait for him to find you! Go out, be cool. Guys chase cool women ;-).
Sorry I don't have a better answer...
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 8:11:55 AM | When you know she is about to cum.(And against popual belief)some of us do.With your words tell her "No,dont cum yet"Make her hold back as long as possible
That would not work for me. I go into my own little world at the end, and breaking my concentration at a critical point is NOT something you want to do. It's not pretty  | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 9:08:27 AM | I believe that foreplay should be a constant.... the "look" that has been previously mentioned, the half smile, the naughtiness in your eyes, brushing up against him, whispers in his ear of what I want to do to him later.
Foreplay is not always about touching, kissing, or oral.... while those are wonderful stepping stones, they are much further down the pathway than most people (men and women) think.
Btw Cowboy.... I'll save a horse!! Giddy up!! | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 9:19:57 AM | laughinglibra - totally agree!
I've always thought that the perfect evening (no, not the first date) is where the whole evening is an extended round of foreplay - touches, looks, comments, winks... Throughout drinks, dinner, dancing or the symphony or whatever follows dinner... Till by the time you get to somewhere more private, you're already hot enough to want to tear each other's clothes off - and move to foreplay round 2, which at that point *might* be 60 seconds or *might* be two hours - there's a time and a place for both!
If by the time the public part of the evening out ends and we get in the car and head for my place or hers - if at that point her panties are totally dry - it just hasn't been a very fun evening at all, in my book! I agree with others who have said - one of the BIGGEST turnons for me, is knowing that I'm turning her on. And if that takes 6 hours throughout the course of the evening, then my philosophy is - what a wonderful 6 hours that is!  | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 9:26:42 AM | Oh Dallas........^^^^^^^
I might be able to spare 6 or 12 hours...... let me check my planner...... Oh yeah... not a problem..... hehehehe | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 9:28:31 AM | And what, pray tell, is a "spider weiner"? (from her profile, in case anyone's wondering) ;-)
And yep, I'm a big fan of the snowshoe picnic... I've got this gorgeous spot at my place, about a kilometer back, unseen from anywhere, overlooking a small lake, perfect for lying in the sun, even in the winter, and roasting something tasty over a campfire for a private picnic...
And yep, it's a good tune... but... I don't jig frogs, too much work, and besides, there's no sleep more restful than being seranaded by a thousand little green couples gettin' a little sumpthin' sumpthin' ;-). My old bird dog's name is Hatfield, and she can be a right jealous little ****, and I'm more a fan of Cash than Willie...
But the essentials are the same ;-)
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 9:33:32 AM |
And what, pray tell, is a "spider weiner"?
;-) It is a certain way of cutting a weiner so that when you cook it over an open fire, it ends up looking like a spider. It's pretty cool, kids love it, and you become quite animalistic when you rip the "legs" off to eat them! lol Could be a whole new level of foreplay.... finger lickin' good! | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 9:38:24 AM | Gee Cowboy,
You're not supposed to spill ALL the secrets...
Had to laugh at:
If we end up talking, we're not going to talk about our boat, our house, our job or our car. We'll tell you funny stories we can both laugh at from life experiences that let you know a bit more about who we are, not some movie we saw on cable. And we listen when you talk.
We WILL look you in the eye, we WILL tell you funny stories and make you laugh, we WILL have you more than ready with words before you ever invite us to touch... And, we know you WILL invite us to touch...
As one other poster noted, there 1000's of books on the subject. Guess what? We have read them, too... We have a desire to make your experience a 9 or a 10 every time.
I like your list Cowboy. Just wish you wouldn't clue ALL the ladies in on what to look for. They'll start saying things like are you trying to _____? Who ME??? 
Best guide to the female form I ever read "She Comes First" Ian Kerner. If you are a guy, you need to own this book. It will guide you to what most women don't even know about themselves...
Last, there is no such thing as "foreplay". It is ALL good. | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 9:52:54 AM | personaly ....i think if its good for a woman to give oral ........then its good for the man to give the same back ........personaly .........when i make love ....i love exploring a womans body with lips ,kissing and oral on a woman for at least over 30 min before even going to the love making ......but i take it ....that must be a scottish thing
xx  | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 10:10:13 AM |
So, tell me guys, what do you think we women should do if we get in bed with a selfish man and despite our efforts to guide you and help you, the sex is still bad?
uh, keep looking??? Maybe with the guide that Cowboy gave you???
I read your message and had to laugh... 5 MINUTES??!! Are you freakin kiddin me??? You invited him to use his fingers and he was too bothered to even try??? Again, are you freakin kiddin me???
Those are THE tools to use.
I can sure see why you didn't enjoy Mr. 15 minutes... Cause if we're gonna count, its not time we're gonna use but rather how many times...or how long you can keep having them! | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 10:10:39 AM | Personally, I love a lot of foreplay, esp. when we have time and are both in the mood. Some of my favs or food items like applesauce, chocolate syrup, ice cream, etc. Of course blind folds and a lot of kissing, sucking, licking and nibbling on different body parts (besides the normally sexual ones) are always good too.
Ed | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 10:15:00 AM |
I read your message and had to laugh... 5 MINUTES??!! Are you freakin kiddin me??? You invited him to use his fingers and he was too bothered to even try??? Again, are you freakin kiddin me???
I like this guy ;-).
Ahem, you know, in a totally manly "lets go grab a beer and then change a transmission in a stripper's car together" sort of way ;-)
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 10:28:46 AM | Well Rowdy,
I'm not only big in foreplay I actually enjoy afterplay, spoons, carressing, holding cuddling, kissing, foot rubs. You'll never find out because you blocked me. | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 10:50:35 AM | Well !!! I have had not much experience, but in the experiencess I have had, with Foreplay I have Never had any Complaints !!! YET !!! I love exploring a womans body, finding out what turns her on or Off !!! but it's just finding the right women in the 1st place, that has held me back, but my Girlfriend loves me to perform foreplay on her.
Just my 50p worth on the subject
Tim | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 10:55:10 AM | Sometimes foreplay just gets in the way!
My experience has been that the majority of men don't take the time to get the woman adequately aroused to have an orgasm.
I used to have that problem. It was difficult for me to have an orgasm but i figured out it was all in my head. Men like to know they are pleasing you but if YOU are constantly thinking thoughts that hes not doing it right or that it (foreplay) should be longer than its YOU who have the problem. You have to know yourself before you can expect a man to figure out what makes you orgasm. | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 11:36:15 AM | Thanks Cowboy...I think...  Actually, it was very funny...
Jason402, read what Cowboy wrote in this subject...commit it to memory...you will be amazed at the difference...
Then never, ever, ever write what you did in your post again...It's a fine example of what NOT to do... Girls (I tend think of them all as girls, no offense ) like all the things you said but it is so feminine to say them out loud...
Ever wonder why girls like the bad boy??? Cause he ain't a girl... Yes, you can still be a nice guy and treat your lady with respect but do NOT commit the sin of acting like a girl to convince the woman that you are, indeed, a nice guy...
And the last part,
Whining. Not an endearing quality in either sex... Here's a secret for you Jason (ok, women, DO NOT READ THIS. It is only for Jason. Ok?) Girls like to be teased, some a little, others a lot... You can not tease if you are supplicating... Girls like funny (reread Cowboy's post again!)... They do NOT like to be interviewed! Learn some stories (truthful ones about yourself are best especially if they are self-deprecating and funny). Basically, forget anything you thought you ever knew about talking with women and study and learn social dynamics.
Ok, women, you can begin reading again... Thank you for your patience... | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 11:39:34 AM | Ms.Understood: Thanks for pointing out that it's not always a one-way thing. How people think about things is really important, too. I think everyone who wants to be a good lover has to be considerate. When your partner goes down on you (and I think this is the same for guys and girls) am I still fresh and tasty? is my partner comfortable? getting tired? bored? A really important part of being a good lover is also learning to give your partner permission to be selfish. "You're delicious. I'm going to be busy for the next, oh, hour... I hope you don't have plans." This can require a bit of compromise... like, if my partner confesses she has a thing for Patrick Dempsey, I'm not going to be all that keen on letting her call me Patrick, but I'd accept McDreamy (Grey's Anatomy).
Desi: Your posts sadden me, because you're clearly frustrated and that speaks poorly of a lot of older men (Yaaay! I get to be younger men!). I guess I'd recommend some very frank and explicit talk before you invite a gentleman into your bedroom. I wouldn't do this just before you're ready to do the inviting, I'd think the date before. Sending an email might be a bit more comfortable for you and him both... Just lay it all out for him. That sex is likely in the near future. That he has one shot to prove he can be good in bed (the first time doesn't have to be great, as long as he shows he's attentive and willing to accept guidance). Be explicit in your expectations for foreplay. Let him know that you will give as good as you get. If necessary, keep a riding crop and an egg-timer in your boudoir.
I remember one of my friends saying, in the most uptight professor voice he could mimic "I touched her breasts and stimulated her clitoris. If she did not have an orgasm, it's not my fault." We all laughed our asses off, because that isn't foreplay. Not the attitude or the actions. | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 11:45:54 AM | | For me one of my biggest turn ons is the foreplay.....and Foreplay can be a lot of things...Everything from the exchange of a few glances to even play fighting.....I think if men and even some women took more time for foreplay, it would make the relationship so much more interesting and fun.... | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 12:04:37 PM | In a LTR, foreplay should start when you wake up in the morning. I rest my case.
Carry on!
Ray | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 1:31:07 PM |
I'm not only big in foreplay I actually enjoy afterplay, spoons, carressing, holding cuddling, kissing, foot rubs. You'll never find out because you blocked me.
Jason; If there is insufficient foreplay, it doesn't matter what comes after...it's bad sex. | |
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Posted: 2/11/2008 3:41:25 PM |
Then never, ever, ever write what you did in your post again...It's a fine example of what NOT to do... Girls (I tend think of them all as girls, no offense ) like all the things you said but it is so feminine to say them out loud...
Ever wonder why girls like the bad boy??? Cause he ain't a girl... Yes, you can still be a nice guy and treat your lady with respect but do NOT commit the sin of acting like a girl to convince the woman that you are, indeed, a nice guy...
My brutha from anotha mutha ;-)...
Cowboy | |
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