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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 9:23:18 AM | Yes this can work.. If you have some sort of buzz for each other and you want to go slow.. spend time. do things together.. hold hands smile at each other, hugs with affection etc.. tell each other personal things.. all these things are encouraging.. Doing things for each other in the way of help is good.. as long as you both have the understanding that you both give back anyway you can, in the way you can in the way you want to give back.. eg the man puts a shelf up for his lady friend.. she cooks a lovely Sunday lunch for him... etc... This can go on for a long time.. and warming can happen between you and eventually after the foundations have been set.. the friendship leads into a relationship.. and both have waited for each other to have some sort of feelings first.. A relationship built like this is not heavy stuff and go's with the flow....how many times have you realized by zooming into it all has caused jealousy restrictions and lack of space... This is the best way to start a relationship.. but I must admit if there is one sidedness, then one is not attracted to the other enough.. I do believe that we can be very much aware of this.. and it is up to make our own minds up to what we should do for each other...we all know if we are liked by the flirtious ways we can not hide.. DON'T WE!!!!! | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 1:59:38 PM | Friends first can work... just depends on each person.. I think as friends first, it could be easier to be yourself, be open and not haven to worry about impressing the person you want, no pressure... If you happen to want more then just friends with this particular, then take that risk and tell the person you want to date them and see what happens. You got nothing to lose.
Keep in mind, alot of people who are looking for long-term want to be friends first... doing that can give them a chance to heal from the break up of the last relationship (assuming its pretty recent) and can get to know each other. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 2:30:02 PM | | From a man's perspective, if I tell a woman let's just be friends first, it means "I like you; but, you have some major strikes against you I'm just not sure I want to deal with inside a relationship." | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 3:37:27 PM |
The message you are replying to: Posted By: dayzyflame on 2/17/2008 10  06 PM Subject: Does Friends first ever really work? Message: I have a theory about friends first! The difference between men & women and being friends first is (I know I'm about to generalize big time)... Lets say a guy is at a party, a girl walks in, he looks up and thinks nothing of her. He gets to know her over time because of mutual friends, he finds out she is really cool and they become friends, he will NEVER fall in love with her because that instant attraction wasn't there. .......... Lets say a girl is at a party, a guy walks in, she looks up and thinks nothing of him. She gets to know him over time because of mutual friends, she finds out he is really cool and they become friends, she WILL fall in love with him because of his personality, his charm, wit, intelligence - because of all that - attraction has grown. .......... With that being said, you men have it much easier than we women do, women can be worn down if your are persistent and are genuine in your friendship. I do realize there are evil people out there that use other people, I hope that is not the norm. Basically love can sweep you off your feet and carry you along in a way you've never known before. But the ride always ends, and you end up feeling lonely and bitter. Wait. It's not love I'm describing. I'm thinking of a monorail.
In the best tradition of an O. Henry story, your post ends with an interesting twist. Nicely done Miss dayzyflame.
Since I live so near to Hollyweird, CA please indulge me as I reference a couple of movies which came to mind reading this thread, and your response in particular:
When Harry Met Sally
Just Friends
Both movies present the whole Male/Female Platonic Friendship dynamic in an entertaining way...with the usual Hollywood flair of course.
I actually saw When Harry Met Sally in the theatres on 4 separate occasions with 4 different women. My friendship with these lovely ladies was *ahem* purely platonic...but, circumstances did lead two of them to date me, at different times of course (Thank you Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan!).
In my opinion, Just Friends is a riotous, laugh-inducing, and entertaining film on this topic for a later generation. Peoples names and faces may be different, but the Eternal Drama between the sexes never seems to change much, does it?
If you haven't seen both movies, check them out. I think you'll find some poignant insights mixed in with the laughter... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 5:49:28 PM | Doing things for each other in the way of help is good.. as long as you both have the understanding that you both give back anyway you can, in the way you can in the way you want to give back.. eg the man puts a shelf up for his lady friend.. she cooks a lovely Sunday lunch for him... etc... This can go on for a long time.
Thrifting and shopping for shoes.
Following her around, as she shops for clothes, taking care to tell her how lovely she looks.
"Being there" for her, when she has something heavy that she wants you to carry.
Going to ballet, and pretending an interest in "the arts"
Agreeing with her, that you'd much rather spend Sunday afternoon during football season shopping with her, rather than watching the game.
Agreeing with her, as she tells you what's wrong with men, and how you could do almost everything in your life.
Quite right, as this post says:
This can go on for a long time
YUCK!!!! | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 6:08:20 PM | Mike
I can't tell you if it works, but never has for me. The ones I made friends with are still friends, but it never goes any farther. I agree it is a female thing, and think they use it as an excuse when they are afraid for whatever reason to make themselves vulnerable enough for love. It makes me a little leary when I see friend first, but I don't let it kill a deal because Ican always use another friend. I guess it also makes me a little suspicious about investing emotionally in the relationship. Those friends I spoke of earlier are still on the net. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 6:57:03 PM | Its never worked for me. As one poster mentioned, for a guy there is that immediate "wow" factor that goes way beyond friendship when he sees a woman he likes, and its an either/or thing, no halfway about it. I've been in that situation and tried to do the friend thing while she came around to realizing how wonderful I really am (lol). When she finally did, she got scared off by the fact that with us getting so close all that time, that it wouldn't be just dating, but a serious relationship right away, and for whatever reason, that wasn't what she wanted at the time. Unrequited love sucks! 
I've been on the opposite side of that equation more than once, but that initial attraction wasn't there. In that case I always figure its better to be honest and risk hurting her feelings a little bit upfront that dragging it out and making it more painful in the long run. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 8:30:03 PM | | happily: You can't speak for all men. I don't believe that initial infatuation really means anything since it's usually based on lust and not the whole package. I develop a deep physical attraction ONLY after spending a long time with someone I connect with on a mental level. Physically, no one ever "wows" me until I get to know them. This is why the whole "love at first site" idea is pure garbage. Love and attraction take work and time. My two biggest loves were people who were the exact opposite of what I would call my "type" physically because I gave the relationships a chance. For me, I can't possibly be romantically interested in someone if I'm not friends first. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:26:16 PM | I have a lot of friends but I don't want to date any of them. The reason I'm doing the online dating scene is because I want a relationship, not another "friend" I have plenty of friends.
Let's face it girls,if your looking for "friends first" you might as well be dating your brother or uncle,or join FRIENDSFIRST.com or PLENTYOF FRIENDS.com
"Friends first" is a woman's way of not having to make any commitments,sacrifice,pronoucements,time and energy to a serious relationship.
It's always easier to brake up with a friend than someone you've invested time and energy towards. Any serious long term realtionship requires much dedication,attention,and sacrifice. That's one of the main differences between just being friends and having or wanting a long term realtionship,or you've become plain lazy,burned out or jaded.
I avoid any profiles with "friends first" written or implied because I know I'm being set up for failure from the start. It's not that complicated when you brake it down to simple mathmatics,one plus one is two.
If I'm wrong about all this,I may end up dating one of my friends after all.
Have a nice "friendly "day!
RAVEN | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:38:52 PM | (((Doing things for each other in the way of help is good.. as long as you both have the understanding that you both give back anyway you can, in the way you can in the way you want to give back.. eg the man puts a shelf up for his lady friend.. she cooks a lovely Sunday lunch for him... etc... This can go on for a long time.)))
Thrifting and shopping for shoes.
Following her around, as she shops for clothes, taking care to tell her how lovely she looks.
"Being there" for her, when she has something heavy that she wants you to carry.
Going to ballet, and pretending an interest in "the arts"
Agreeing with her, that you'd much rather spend Sunday afternoon during football season shopping with her, rather than watching the game.
Agreeing with her, as she tells you what's wrong with men, and how you could do almost everything in your life.
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Great post RM, those sound like wonderful activities. I love theater, I go to thrift shops (about once a week), the arts, shopping football. Why I do believe there are billions of people on Earth with interests in one or more of those.
Would'nt it be wonderful to do it with a sexy friend, and soon to be lover, than all alone? Compare that to say, shopping all alone at Walmart at 2am.
I'd trade all my selfishness and self-righteousness for a sweet woman right now. Whats a month or two (my timeline) of getting to know each other? I can still shop at Walmart all alone and live in my stinky lonely house in the meantime.
I know, the price is huge.....the work is hard, I might have to walk across a street to meet her. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:40:27 PM | I suggest any male here , young or old, go read say 20 womens profiles. Right now, no excuses. And count how many say "friends first" or "I'm not looking for a quick lay" or "I want someone who I can trust". Shall we bet that its 18/20??? Or more?
(((Doing things for each other in the way of help is good.. as long as you both have the understanding that you both give back anyway you can, in the way you can in the way you want to give back.. eg the man puts a shelf up for his lady friend.. she cooks a lovely Sunday lunch for him... etc... This can go on for a long time.)))
Thrifting and shopping for shoes.
Following her around, as she shops for clothes, taking care to tell her how lovely she looks.
"Being there" for her, when she has something heavy that she wants you to carry.
Going to ballet, and pretending an interest in "the arts"
Agreeing with her, that you'd much rather spend Sunday afternoon during football season shopping with her, rather than watching the game.
Agreeing with her, as she tells you what's wrong with men, and how you could do almost everything in your life.
__________________________________________________________
Great post RM, those sound like wonderful activities. I love theater, I go to thrift shops (about once a week), the arts, shopping football. Why I do believe there are billions of people on Earth with interests in one or more of those.
Would'nt it be wonderful to do it with a sexy friend, and soon to be lover, than all alone? Compare that to say, shopping all alone at Walmart at 2am.
I'd trade all my selfishness and self-righteousness for a sweet woman right now. Whats a month or two (my timeline) of getting to know each other? I can still shop at Walmart all alone and live in my stinky lonely house in the meantime.
I know, the price is huge.....the work is hard, I might have to walk across a street to meet her. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:45:55 PM | "Friends first" is a woman's way of not having to make any commitments,sacrifice,pronoucements,time and energy to a serious relationship.
It's always easier to brake up with a friend than someone you've invested time and energy towards. Any serious long term realtionship requires much dedication,attention,and sacrifice. That's one of the main differences between just being friends and having or wanting a long term realtionship,or you've become plain lazy,burned out or jaded.
Can I respond to this? How on earth are women supposed to dedicate all that to a man they've known two weeks? If you're saying you expect all that up front when you know nothing yet, then yeah I guess I can see why you'd want nothing to do with....just about anyone who mentions the word friend....I mean, is your ass on fire?
Maybe a woman wants to know a man's shoe size before she marries him..sheesh....
Thrifting and shopping for shoes.
I don't really care for a ton of shoes or spend a day looking at them, but if I did, why would I take a bf with me? He's bored and therefore he gets in the way of things getting done. Shopping is what my friends are for (if I can stand to shop longer than 45 minutes).
Following her around, as she shops for clothes, taking care to tell her how lovely she looks.
See previous response.
"Being there" for her, when she has something heavy that she wants you to carry.
I carry all my own crap...what I can't carry - I use a handtruck, or whatever for....if I can't to that, I hire someone, the list goes on and on.
Going to ballet, and pretending an interest in "the arts"
I don't like the ballet, but if I did, why would I bring a bf who hates it?
Agreeing with her, that you'd much rather spend Sunday afternoon during football season shopping with her, rather than watching the game.
I watch the games myself - but if I didn't....I hate to repeat myself, but why drag him shopping? Him having things to do means I get my space to do what I want. Why on earth would I mess with that?
Agreeing with her, as she tells you what's wrong with men, and how you could do almost everything in your life.
If I didn't like men, I wouldn't be around any, and if I don't like how a guy lives his life, I either don't date him, or don't hang around him when I don't like what he's doing....
Your list was stereotypical, and generalized....or you're dating in a really strange area where the women all like the same thing... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 3:19:27 PM |
Your list was stereotypical, and generalized....or you're dating in a really strange area where the women all like the same thing...
My list was tongue in cheek, poking fun at the "friends first" approach to a romantic relationship, DJ. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 3:39:03 PM | Hi Mike! I am going through this very thing right now, only I'm a woman. The man I have been seeing says he loves me as a friend. I love him with all my heart. He says he just needs some time as has been hurt in the past! He calls me about 5 times a day and comes to see me every weekend! We are a 3 hours drive away from each ohter. He has also bought me gifts. I have helped him out more than once finacially. He says I am his girlfriend and that he doesn't want another woman. We have never had sex and have only kissed twice! Should I wait for him or move forward? I find myself comparing him with other men and they just don't measure up. What do you think? Judy | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 3:43:19 PM | I think it can work, if both the people put enough effort into getting to know eachother & figure out if it can eventually work.
The problem is you might just get stuck in being friends. Forever.
Your attracted to people for a reason, so if you can't have them in your life romantically, keep them as a friend. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 3:43:20 PM | [and basically followed her around and did lots of stuff for her. Treated her better than a friend anyway. So my question is this; does it ever work and is it ever truly "safe" or is it just a convenience for one party to get the other to do stuff for them?]
A friendship is between two people; it doesn't just go in one direction. It sounds like you were doing things for her in order to win her over and not because you wanted to do things for her. There's a difference.
If you agree to being friends and you want the relationship to go further you need to ask the other party if that might happen for them. If you are romantically involved with the person but they aren't involved with you, except for the 'friendship,' the relationship is unbalanced and you're going to be miserable.
But I do think two people can start out as friends and develop the relationship into a romantic one. It takes two people. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:33:35 PM | Two kids of friends...
1) Just a friend.... and that's all there will ever be. (These are friends until they make things weird. Or stop doinf cool things for them for free.)
2) Man friend. "I want you; but, I'm feeling things out first." (These guys don't have to do anything, along the lines of presents, to remain on the "yes" list.) | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:45:33 PM | Well, I hope that freinds first works, because that's what I truly want. Being true to myself... I know the most important aspect of a relationship to me is the friendship. The loving/lover aspect, to me, would be a reflection of how much I love and value the friendship. Yet the friendship is different with the potential lover. One of these forum posts did a good job of differentiating the friend as "friend only" from the "friend with romantic potential." I don't know which one - but it was good.
I'm sorry that it worked out so badly for you. Each experience has the potential to make us wiser - hopefully, you won't becoe just another jaded man. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 6:02:35 PM | Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I realize that a friend, and a romantic interest, are completely different things. What I balk at, is the "imbalance" of attempting to approach romance, as if it were a friendship. It creates cognitive dissonance for me, and is therefore unpleasant. I simply won't do it.
Friendships are wonderful, and I do have female friends. One is probably my best friend. It's not complicated, and we're not wondering "what if?". It's a balanced friendship, and are no issues of power, acceptance, or validation involved. We spend time together to do something that we want to do, and we talk, when one or the other of us has something interesting to share, or something that one of us needs to talk through.
Other friendships with women are a product of shared reality, as in co-workers, with whom I'll have lunch, or share conversation before, during, or after work, as our paths cross. Uncomplicated and nice parts of life.
For me, the "friendship" that comes in a relationship is a result of tender feelings of cherishing someone, who is my lover, wanting to see her joy, because I cherish her. It's very different, and can be very nice.
"Friendship first" though, if I am interested in a woman, as a woman, seems as if I am under scrutiny, being "judged". It's not comfortable. It's not fun. It's a situation where, we are in something that is meant to include sex, but doesn't, because she doesn't want to. It's imbalanced, and speaks of power and control. It's not something I'll do, not now, and not ever.
Fortunately, there has never been a problem finding someone who sees a dating relationship as also a sexual relationship, if we are attracted to each other, and wish to go forward. I'm ok with discovering that she isn't attracted. I'm not ok with ambiguity. So, the first date needs to have a "yes" or "no" at the end, not the "maybe" of following a paradigm of "friendship', which really doesn't "fit" with true friendship or the desire of a relationship. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 6:54:59 PM | Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I realize that a friend, and a romantic interest, are completely different things. What I balk at, is the "imbalance" of attempting to approach romance, as if it were a friendship. It creates cognitive dissonance for me, and is therefore unpleasant. I simply won't do it.
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That's great! I see you are finally starting to understand what everyone has been saying. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 1:47:06 AM | Well it just doesn't happen- one sided. I spent corresponding to someone for 2 months the distance was rather an issue but it never came up before. He got attached to me & we got really close. We've never met bec I was recovering from surgery so I've asked him to come & see me instead. He was supposed to then bailed out last minute that he has to work more shifts and would be quite busy (translation: I met someone else & I am dating her now but its none of your business to know the details). This has gone on for about 2 months then recently when i talked to him he was in a rush to get off the phone bec she was over @ his place(he didn't tell me that again) then the last time we talked that is when he came out clean about it after I got him to confess. It was a rather disappointing friendship to be quite honest with you--- despite we've never met, I felt betray & played a fool. I wasted 2 months for him of no intention telling me that there is no chance we'd ever meet in person bec he is already INVOLVED with someone else for a month & a half of the 2 months that we have been friends ONLINE. He was the first one that got attached to me- I wasn't in order to understand his feelings I tried to develop feelings towards him & He made an Ass out of me.
Well right now, we haven't talked since the last time we spoke about him Seeing & Sleeping with someone else. He doesn't know that I am deeply HURT for him making a fool of me & wasted 2 months rather than letting me MOVE ON and meet someone else like what he did to me. So Mike it just doesn't happen to MEN- Women go through it more than MEN trust me we get Screwed up a lot too..... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 5:31:51 AM | I spent corresponding to someone for 2 months the distance was rather an issue but it never came up before. He got attached to me & we got really close. We've never met bec I was recovering from surgery so I've asked him to come & see me instead. He was supposed to then bailed out last minute that he has to work more shifts and would be quite busy (translation: I met someone else & I am dating her now but its none of your business to know the details).
Pebbles, welcome to the wonderful world of online dating, where there are two undeniable truths of life, that your experience has now made clear for you.
In terms of the "relationship" part of things
1. It's not real, until it's in real life
2. If you haven't met, or made plans to meet, within the first 4 weeks, you never will.
Most people, who have met a number of people from online will tell you that it's never quite the way you thought it would be, when you actually meet, which is not to say that it never works. In my experience, when you've used online to learn about each other, as best you can, and the connection feels strong enough that you both want to meet and then do so, there is chemistry only about 1 in 3 times, and the other 2 end up as a nice, polite dinner with someone, that will never lead to a 2nd date.
You can have a "virtual friendship" with someone, who you enjoy exchanging ideas, but where the idea of dating isn't on the table. And, of course, there are those 1 in 100 rare exceptions, where people chat online for a long time, and then finally meet, to have it work out. Those really, and truly are rare, though, and while many people think that theirs is that "rare exception", it almost never is. It can become a BFWOT that robs you of months of your life.
So, while, as humans, we can't avoid pleasant fantasies and wondering "what if?", but experience teaches most people not to start changing their life plans, because of someone met online, until they have met, and are involved in the real world.  | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 5:32:25 AM | | frineds first is the only way to go. and in reality a partner is suppose to be ur best friend. with friends first you have much better chance of it working. others will come and go. friends already know how they feel about each other. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 6:06:05 AM |
If you are worried about being used, then don't do anything for the other person, it is that simple...
That is excellent advice.
I really don't have to much to say on this thread because I first want to read everyone's thoughts.
But just for starter's, whenever anyone tells you that they want to be friends, I would just take it at face value and see if a friendship develops. | |
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