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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 8:33:07 AM | I am not new to the Online dating world, I've used this Plenty of fish for awhile & have met remarkable Friends & Dated Remarkable guys as well. Its something I would even recommend to my friends (that included the friend that I was talking about). But to be quite honest, I know it felt like 2 months was wasted but when you sum up but to be honest,
"what has happen its more of his loss than it is mine, bec he never made an effort to know what he loss till its gone".
He has gone through so much in previous relationships (especially the most recent one) & us meeting online that night for 2 months-- that meeting me would have been a BLESSING IN DISGUISE but that is LIFE, As I said on my Profile- "DONT LET YOUR PAST DICTATE YOU WHO YOU ARE BUT LET IT BE A PART OF WHO YOU WILL BECOME".
Its nothing that I regret emotionally, but it was more of "WASTE OF MY TIME" that
I regret that I invested time/effort to someone that WASN'T WORTH MY TIME @ all.
I've moved on Actually, Met remarkable guys from here, recently-- real who's Honest, Sweet, and Funny and that lives in town". Also came across Old friends from here,
that I've known Offline from awhile back. Starting a new job & Been hanging out with friends/family, so I am all set. So there is no sense of Dwelling over this GUY from Okanagan, that was as I said A WASTE . HE LOST A FRIENDSHIP THAT COULD've DEVELOP into something MORE, But as they say, YOU MAKE DECISION OUT OF HAZE THEN ITS TOO LATE TO TURN BACK BEC YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN REPLACED.
I was basically responding to a Forum that is how this all started. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 8:37:41 AM |
But to be quite honest, I know it felt like 2 months was waisted but when you sum up what has happen its more of his loss than it is mine, bec he never made an effort to know what he loss till its gone.
If you need to go through all that to get back into the game, that's fine.
For me, when I've been in "search" mode, my general approach, if anything goes sideways, or it takes too long, or I hear "let's be friends first"...is to simply say "NEXT!" | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 8:39:57 AM | there is chemistry only about 1 in 3 times, and the other 2 end up as a nice, polite dinner with someone, that will never lead to a 2nd date.
Wow....I WISH that were the case, 1 in 3 - that'd be awesome...unfortunately, for me it's more like 1 in 10...granted, most I never even want to meet to begin with, but for those I do meet, I rarely end up interested.
Real life works better for me anyway....but perhaps it's the region I live in... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 8:43:31 AM | I've moved on Actually, Met remarkable guys from here, recently-- real who's Honest, Sweet, and Funny and that lives in town". Also came across Old friends from here,
that I've known Offline from awhile back. Starting a new job & Been hanging out with friends/family, so I am all set. So there is no sense of Dwelling over this GUY from Okanagan, that was as I said A WASTE . HE LOST A FRIENDSHIP THAT COULD've DEVELOP into something MORE, But as they say, YOU MAKE DECISION OUT OF HAZE THEN ITS TOO LATE TO TURN BACK BEC YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN REPLACED.
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So if you read the entire Forum, I've moved on.End of story, Renaissance Man 1950. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 12:42:39 PM | The reason why it works for the woman is because if you haven't had sex with her.... then you still want to have sex with her. Your desire is higher and stronger than if she had given it to you sooner. You want her so bad, it hurts. So, she has the upper hand. Once you have sex with her, you have the upper hand. She will overcompensate for you, hoping you will return the favor, and hope you will feel love for her. But, once a man has sex too soon, he does not respect her. The hunt is over. She has extinguished his fire by giving it too soon. He will lose desire for her. He will not value her, and if she overcompensates by preparing special meals, or waiting around for him to call, or waiting for him, while he is out with his buddies, then he will not appreciate her extra effort. So, for the female, it is better to remain "friends first".
If you demand sex too soon, then you decide to drop her.... the damage is done to her.... not you. I know it hurts for you to wait, and your desire for her will swell and hurt if you wait.... and if she rejects you, you will be brokenhearted.... but if she gives it to you too soon, and you disrespect her for it, and drop her..... then she will be brokenhearted. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 1:28:53 PM |
The reason why it works for the woman is because if you haven't had sex with her.... then you still want to have sex with her
Some men, maybe, but other men, like me, if I go out with a woman, and she doesn't want sex, that's fine; but then I no longer care because:
So, she has the upper hand
I'm not interested in mind games or power struggles. Which is exactly why, there is a barrier to intimacy, prior to a relationship being sexual.
once a man has sex too soon, he does not respect her.
That's a notion from long ago. Truth is, I don't cherish a woman, or begin to love her, until we are lovers. I respect a woman with a healthy sexual attitude, who is willing to act on it, and I have no respect for someone, who tries to leverage sex to exert power over me in a controlling way.  | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 1:49:08 PM |
So, she has the upper hand.
What is this - Machiavelli's School of Seduction Techniques? Ye gods! Maybe there are some women who are that calculating. Others of us just aren't interested in bumping uglies with all and sundry and want to find there's more to our connection than the pull of biology. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 3:48:37 PM | Dear Renaissance Man.....
Have you ever heard the saying "good things come to those who wait"? Sounds like you need to order up a little Patience...A little narcisstic are we? | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 3:52:18 PM | | From my dating knowledge and preferences...all the males that I developed as friends first remained such. However, it's different for everyone....... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 3:57:14 PM | | It depends. Of course you have to be friends, or there is No relationship, just using each other. I always see on here that men want to be "Friends first", then maybe more. The problem with that is that the woman may put them on her friend ladder, instead of the relationship one. If she does, you NEVER move over, unless you were on the relationship one too. I understand you men and the non-commitment thing. They are even saying now, that men view living together as a step BEFORE they get serious. But, come on, what woman is gonna put herself out there and risk getting hurt in a Platonic relationship? If you have an interest show it from day one, I get that all men are bachelors until about 1 mo before they commit, or get engaged, and like to pursue, so pursue already. Make sure she knows up front of your interest, cause if she doesn't, you may not have a chance later when you decide she is pretty cool. Women will be friends with a man she is attracted to, and he'll generally know the difference from friendship with a woman that sees him as just a nice guy. Better hope you are more then the Nice guy to her, or forget it. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 3:58:31 PM | | Personally, I've always been friends with the person, first. Otherwise, you end up in a loveless relationship that is based on sex and sex alone. That's one of the reasons God tells you to wait for marriage...so, you can fall in love with the actual person's personna. If more people waited, maybe they would be able to see the B.S. that most play, and they would be able to fall in love with the person's personna, as opposed to JUST falling in lust with their bodies. I know lots of christian people who wait, until they're married. Does it work? Definitely! | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 4:51:21 PM | Dear Renaissance Man.....
Have you ever heard the saying "good things come to those who wait"?
Irish, sure I've heard it. I'll even agree that my sense of chemistry is based on a mutual overwhelming impulse of desire, where desire of one feeds on the other. So, what might be just caution in someone, processes for me as "disinterest", and I move on.
So, yeah, maybe I have missed out on some great women along the way. I'm ok with that, though, because the "downside" of patience is having to waste a lot of time in confusing dynamics that usually wouldn't do anything positive, and would make me, if anything, feel less joyous about life. Dating in a "friendship first" context does not "add on" to life for me, so why would I do it?
The "market" influences what changes we make. I'm willing to "adjust" other preferences, so as to not have to enter into dating scenarios that don't feel comfortable for me, but I'm not saying that it has to be that way for everyone.
I date for a reason, and if that reason isn't there, then, if it came to it, I'd rather not date, than to have to enter into a dating dynamic that is uncomfortable.
A little narcisstic are we?
I don't think that I'm "God's gift to women", nor do I think that every woman will be interested. I don't need external validation to know who I am. I look for partners, who want the same sort of relationship that I do, for their own needs. It's a win/win, not exploitation.
I have to wonder, though, why some think that people "should" enter into relationships for reasons other than seeking what they sense that they need? What "higher purpose" is being served in dating to date, whether one is enjoying it or not? | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/26/2008 5:45:22 PM | Realize guys, there are far more 'normal' everyday times in life between you, & her that you aren't being sexual. Those are the times that you should at least like each other, as friends do. Keep-in-mind that you don't have the hormones helping to to be attracted to her then! javascript:smilie(' ') | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/28/2008 9:34:06 PM | Op: define "really work".
From your post it sounds like you liked the person, decided to be her friend, did things for her expecting a return ie: a lover, or more to the point sex. We don't know what she thought or felt, we don't know what discussion occured about the type of friendship each of you expected. You say the relationship was great but is wasn't what you expected? If it wasn't how was it great, if she didn't putout or love you in the end, how was it great in between? You "followed" her around, you mean like a stalker? Treated her better then a friend?... meaning just friends in your book don't put out but she was supposed to?
You want a lover, meaning sex, and if friends develops afterwards it's a bonus? So you don't want to get to know the person, you just want the body and the person will follow cuz what? You're a great stud and she won't be able to help herself?
You said you did "lots of stuff for her", but you don't say if you did lots of stuff with her, did she invite you or did you just show up, did you go places together or did you show up where she was, you leave so many questions open.
To answer your question, and please don't hit me over the head, okay? I've made many female friends over the years. Friendships on various levels. Some never went further then friend and guess what? We're still friends today. Others crossed that line and it was exciting at first, then we realized it wasn't and we agreed to be friends, and guess what? We still are! The few special ones that became friends first and as we did things, with other friends, we found or developed a special connection and it turned into a beautiful experience. They lasted a long time but life got in the way and we had to let go. One in particular and we're still friends. There were others, just as in many friendships, who were a part of my life in one way or another and are a memory, as friends or lovers. But they are good memories. There are two or three that were disappointed or disappointing, that left with bad feelings or left bad feelings, but I don't harbor those today.
My point is that I have tried the lover first and friend maybe and those were worthless experiences with no reedeming value or worthy memory except a lesson learned. I'd rather get to know the person, maybe... just maybe I'd like to find out if we have chemistry, interests, passions of common interest. They have a right not to want more then friendship and I can accept the responsibility to respect them for that.... and STILL be their friend and love them, without expectations or demands.
Phew! did I say all that? ... my brain hurts.. I need a friend...  | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/28/2008 9:51:36 PM |
For me, when I've been in "search" mode, my general approach, if anything goes sideways, or it takes too long, or I hear "let's be friends first"...is to simply say "NEXT!"
LOL, no man has ever been my lover without being my friend first. I've never been interested in "trying out the goodies" until we're ensconsed in a comfortable, committed relationship and we're in love.
If a man I was dating told me I had to have sex with him in order for him to develop feelings for me, I'd definitely take a pass.
I grew up in the "sex, drugs and rock and roll" era, and easy sex didn't even appeal to me back then. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/28/2008 10:24:16 PM |
If a man I was dating told me I had to have sex with him in order for him to develop feelings for me
Since you quoted a post of mine to which to respond, I think I need to clear this up.
I have never "told" a woman that she "has to have sex" with me.
The post was a reflection on the nature of how relationships work for me. For me, the desire/chemistry/sex has to come first, if there is to be a relationship. It's about mutual desire and feelings, when you first meet face to fact. It's there, or it's not. It can't be demanded.
I can be friends with lots of people, if we have something in common like work, volunteer activities, community, etc.. I don't want to have sex with my friends. That's not the nature of friendship.
I can go out to dinner with a friend, and enjoy the meal. I can go to a store with a friend, and we can get the things we need to buy. I could go to a Brewers game with a friend, and sometimes I do, and we enjoy the ball game. There's nothing very special about that, but it's nice to do some things with a friend, rather than alone. "Doing stuff together" has more to do with whether the stuff we're doing is fun, than about any growth in the friendship. No matter how much stuff I do together with a friend, it doesn't give me the hots for her, nor her for me. The depth of friendship only grows, when we face something "deep" and share it, but the nature of friendship is such, that those periods are rare, and not what the friendship is usually about.
When I meet a woman, and we are in "lust" and become lovers, we have something "in common" that is rare and unique, so, of course, we also become friends. We're friends, though, where the friendship is based on something that is deep and intimate, and the nature of being lovers is to strengthen the intimacy into more and more areas of life, and to share our "secrets" that we would never share with "just a friend". It can usher in that unique sense of not being alone in our core, and wanting to share our essence. I don't get there by shopping, going to movies, ball games, or going out to dinner. | |
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m8hem
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Joined: 5/4/2008
Msg: 318 | |
| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/29/2008 7:23:39 PM | I think the answer depends on 2 different situations:
1) You find her interesting...but just want to get to know her better, to see if there's compatibility there...then of course, this is a great idea...friends first is a great way to go!
2) You already know you really dig her, but you're hoping that she'll fall for you by doing all these nice things...and you can't get the courage to bring up the subject of perhaps developing a romantic interest...and she isn't showing any signs of flirting...and it's pretty clear she's only thinking of you as a friend - then, don't waste your energy. The best thing you can do for yourself is get up enough courage to lay your feelings on the table and be prepared to walk away, onto the next cool girl. Don't forget, girls can just be friends with an attractive guy but I've been told guys can't when they have an attraction for the girl. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 9/18/2008 10:07:15 AM | | I believe that this can happen. I have a friend that I've know for 12 that has become more than a friend. We were friends in high school. Then graduated. She started dating oe of my freinds. They dated for a while. They got married. I went to their wedding, all was well. We'd get together go out for dinner every now ad then. He ended up getting sick, in less than a year he passed away from cancer. I ended going to his funeral. We sorta went out separate ways, but still kept in touch ( we talked every couply of years). In the last 18 months, we had been running into each other online ( myspace, POF), exchanged a few short messages here and there. Nothing major. In May of this year, I just happend to stop by her work for dinner,(she work at food resturant). She asked if I wanted grab a drink . I said sure. We went out after she got off. Had a drink, talked the night away. Actually closing down the place we went to. Went to leave, gave each other a hug. Said that we'd have to get together alot more (the last time that I had actually seen her was 4 years earlier at her husbands funeral. ) A couple of days later she texted me and asked if I could help her fix something and hang out and grab dinner maybe see a movie. So we did. That night I gave her hug and said goodnight and went home. That whole week we texted back and forth. Got together that week later and went to lunch and then I accompanyied her shopping for a camping trip that she was going on. Nothing much. Then we textes some more.They were getting a little more flirty as we progressed. Then we set up another get together. Just a movie night at her house. Nothing special. I showed up and brought her favorite beer, and decided to get her some flowers. When I showed up she was waiting for me outside. I gave her the flowers and a kiss. The rest is history. We've been virtually inseperable since then. We've planned out our future together - kids, house, ect. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 9/18/2008 6:37:52 PM | Monkey694u ----I believe you are right on the money!
I am often confused when I read some of the threads here. It would seem that there is a HUGE line drawn between friends and lovers, FWB, FB and any other convenient title given to this fad of non committal sex.
Why can't you be friends AND lovers? Does not one require the other?
Personally I can't imagine being lovers with someone who I didnt consider a good friend at the very least...
I can honestly say I have only had a few one night stands or situations where I knew all there was going to be was sex and more likely than not it wouldnt be happening again and even those guys were friends then and still are now.
Only once where I just met the man (same night) . 3 months into it and we are very good friends now who also happen to be lovers. Pretty rare I know but it does happen sometimes..lol
On a serious note it is a very tricky situation to get into at best. It starts out great...no strings, no committment but at some point one or the other is going to develop feelings that go beyond a FWB thing . It is heartbreaking when it is one sided... I speak this from first hand experience! but the good thing about being friends first...true friends is that you are able to work through alot that you wouldnt care to put the time in to do with a casual f**k or a ONS.
I guess it just comes down to what your expectations are going...but there is no guarantee that it wont change at some point. ya never know! | |
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