| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 3:44:13 PM | wallflower1,
Speaking only for myself, tho' there may be other women in the same boat, not all women can show attraction in sensuously flirty ways.
If I'm interested in a man and I think he could be very special, I have to establish that friendship by way of heckling, playful shoulder-bopping .. because I want to see how we mesh over time. If he can match wits with me then he's far more likely to see me get more cuddly. Still, tho', I won't make any sexual moves on him - or be okay with his - until we've known each other a while and there's trust established.
I guess my style is more the 'puppy-love' type: a sweet, next-door neighbour, innocent and cute, make others gag, etc .. lol. I know I'm a minority here but that's how I need to bond with a special guy.
If he tries to put moves on me, he will seriously freak me out, unless mutually the relationship has progressed to that stage anyway, and then there's no question.
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A man can be sure without any doubt I'm into him if I keep asking him for rides. It's my way of getting to spend time with him. That's when I can get a feel for how we'd get along as, say, travel buddies.
If we couldn't cheerfully share a journey somewhere, it would never work out. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 3:58:02 PM | I think the problem with "friends first" is that for the most part, the notion of "friend" is treated like it was one-half of a cookie: Take a relationship, break away the attraction and intimacy parts, and what you have left is friendship. On the theory that half a cookie is better than nothing at all, right?
That theory is wrong. It treats friendship as if it were a somehow a subset of a relationship, when the truth is, they're their own separate things. You can have friendships, and you can have relationships, but sticking the two end-to-end so that you have to somehow graduate from one to get to the other strikes me as juvenile. This ain't junior high school. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:10:08 PM | mtloophiker,
the attraction and intimacy parts How can one be intimate with a stranger? .. that requires trust, which takes time to build.
I know many people can enjoy physical contact without necessarily being involved, but I can't.
For me, it's not apples and oranges. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:14:25 PM | | You chose to do the things, you did . You did not give in the spirit of friendship but to gain approval and kudos and a lover.Take responsibility for these choices and don't play the victim card. You knew what you were doing.You cant be friends with someone who is romantically interested in you, it always gets messy. Like wise if you have the romantic interest. It just causes stress, anger, frustration and drama and pain.It is a road to nowhere but painsville. You obviously have a real capacity for love and closeness, use this with someone who returns your interest. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:17:20 PM | Classified:
What you are doing in your previous post (#77) is *not* establishing a friendship, but participating in a relationship ritual. You are testing whether a relationship is worthwhile; building trust is of course part of that. But don't confuse what you're doing with what a true friendship is. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:18:05 PM | | Everyone I ever dated started off as a romantic interest. Not one of my male friends 'graduated' to becoming my lover. It just doesn't work that way. If I like you, and you like me, I'm going to want to kiss you. Now. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:26:23 PM | mtloophiker,
I guess I get my wires crossed there because any time I've ever asked a guy if we could be friends before anything else, I always got relegated to his 'just friends' category. It has never happened any other way.
Therefore I've become very good at being a friend to a man, but I have no idea how to go about it any other way. I just don't do the flirt thing unless it's in a goofy way. I find anything else too threatening.
.. I may fall head-over-heels for someone right away, but if he says he doesn't think of me as more than a friend, I'm honestly okay with that, because as long as we can still hang out, I'm enjoying the scenery .. lol, and whatever feelings I have for him can be redirected into my art, drama, etc .. like a 'muse'.
I see your point but I don't have any frame of reference to experience it. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:32:58 PM | I need instant chemistry for me to truly want to go to the next step with a man. That doesn't mean I necessarily do go to the next step, I just know that this is something I NEED.
If there is no chemistry, I've been known to try the friend route in an effort to develop a friendship that will blossom and my feelings for him could turn to love because I love him as a friend. VERY SLIM PROBABILITY HERE.
Chemistry is key to me. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:33:37 PM | It's all in how one defines "friends." Many of a certain generation describe bf & gf as "friends, etc." For me, friendship is platonic bound with trust, respect and support when needed. There is an equal amount of give and take and not a set amount of time with regards to the relationship. Could be twice a year or twice a week or twice a day contact. Depending.
I have described my last two dating relationships as "We were friends first." One I worked with on occasion and the other owned an establishment in town that I would frequent. Yes, got to know them as people for a while, flirted a little, learned some things about them, was their ear & chatted about general stuff. We never "went out" or had lengthy phone convos -- more an in-person thing. Platonic for several months with the first, the second one for one year. Ultimately, they asked me out and a dating relationship began.
Once I tried dating a male friend (who I did hang out with in groups, etc.) with whom I had no physical attraction to, but we shared values and had common interests. I thought the attraction might come, it never did. But I am glad I tried. I am still friends with this man today. He does things for me and I for him. We are there for each other. He is a straight male and has lots of male and female friends and is well respected by all. I know this is rare.
While I am on friendly terms with many men these days, we don't hang out or have dinner like I would with my female friends. I think as we get older, the boundaries are different. Not many male "platonic" friends at this stage of my life. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:56:22 PM | | it has worked for some...depends on the chicks your going for...if they use guys or don't use guys...i don't use guys even when there trying to spend a lot of money on me...i try to discourage them from spending money on me...so theres none of that confusion.. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:58:38 PM | Ok... so some people obviously mean "friends first" as dutch dating with no sex.
You want to get to know someone before having sex or declaring love--- at least that's what some people have intimated.
You just described the process of dating! I don't sleep with everyone I go out with. I prefer a "getting to know you" period.
I feel safer saying, "We're dating" then I feel saying, "We're starting as friends trying to figure out whether we want to pursue a romantic entanglement."
It feels like a bullshit term to keep us from having any sort of attachment. Don't get me wrong-- I'm fine with the theory-- but in practice I've found that "friends first" relationships mean, "you're a place holder." | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:02:57 PM | .Marc,
dutch dating with no sex. Now THAT definition is perfect. I love it, and you dead-on nailed the gist of what I feel when meeting a guy I find myself interested in, but would rather form familiarity with first. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:09:26 PM | ^ Calling things what they are is very important.
It seems to me that a lot of people are going to take "we're friends" to mean that you're not interested. This means that if something better comes up, they'll take it--- because they have no idea how you feel.
I'd rather pay for the first date at least.... but that's me.
I don't expect physicality right away.... but I do like to feel like I'm dating.
Most of my friends are women... so if I'm doing things that I would normally do with someone that I consider a sister-- well, it doesn't make for much of a relationship future in my head.... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:24:14 PM | I think it shakes down to a difference between interest and intention. Maybe not the correct words...I know if I'll only ever have an interest as friends, so I'm clear about that.
Timing is a critical thing, whether we admit it or not. If the interest which was there is still there..can't say personally never happened.
Sometimes you get to know each other as friends well enough that any possibility of potential romantic interest fades. It's a good thing...you know the person well enough to know you wouldn't really be that compatible.
I've read so many threads...the taking it slow...when it just happens...I don't think you can or should try to control that and definitely can't predict.
I do know that to love a person fully, you have to like them first. Really like them...totally. Enjoy their company, just enjoy every opportunity you have just to be together. You think after you've been together...wow that was great, I enjoyed it, like to do it again.
If it is someone you know you enjoy having as a friend, but think...the hug was too short. Wished he would have held me close just a little longer. That's intent.
It may seem like a shade of difference in talking about it, but you always know.
I'm not opposed to the term "work" but does it work....it's too subjective. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:32:25 PM | Most of the men here are not interested in the "friends first". Most of all of their posts reflect that.
To get to a relationship, true intimacy and emotional attachment are huge factors along with the "biggie"... ATTRACTION. You have to have the attraction (chemistry) between yourselves. A man who's caught up in "attraction" mode is very different than if he is in friends mode. A woman who is stupified by immediate attraction acts very differently than if she is in friends mode. That is the gas that makes it va-voom!
Now you have to see if you can like, trust and engage in this turbo charged vehicle by being "friendly" and open. Not be friends right away! That can be the killer. Nothing neuters a man faster of his attraction if you say "Just friends first". Then you don't allow his natural courting instincts to come out and start the wonderful dance.
After you have developed trust, intimacy, emotional attachment, then you can also be best friends, too! Now...isn't that the best?
Note: Not all "attraction" vibes are the same. Not all will lead to long term. Some are just hotly sexual and that's it. So, that is where "friendly" comes in and explore the attraction to see if it is worthy. You will soon find out. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:37:11 PM | | I am sure it does work. I have had women tell me they would never have feelings toward me one moment than eventually they have. People can not even trust their own heart. Just be yourself and be a good friend but do not be a whiner or kiss a$s and you will be ok with whatever happens. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:50:34 PM | I think the only time it really works is when you are truly FRIENDS with the person with no intention of wanting more when you BECOME friends.
If you start out saying "LEts be friends and see where it goes..." its going nowhere.
But if you become friends with someone, over time you might mutally develop an attraction for each other.
Or in my case, I'm friendss with this guy at work. He has a girlfriend and unfortunately I'm falling for him - but if anything ever does happen, we were really friends first. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:54:01 PM | What I hate is when you are in love with a girl, and you become friends with a girl, and she friend-zones you. You know, when she says she sees you as nothing more than a friend, and you are madly in love with her, and then you can't say anything because it would break a great friendship?
I hate that. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 6:31:27 PM |
Getting to know the person with the intention of becoming lovers and friends...... yes.....
Be clear on what your expectations are and set a mental time limit...if it doesn't happen....move on from those expectations and don't go back there......THEN you can build a friendship......
I agree. I am a big fan of closure. I've seen people "talking to" someone for years on end, and in the end it never progressed from where it started. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 6:47:50 PM | | Personally, I've never had a friendship morph into a relationship. I guess I've never actually tried, so I wonder now if it would have worked. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:05:03 PM | | My hope when I meet someone is that we *stay* friends *and* lovers...is that too much to expect? So...it would be 'friends first' and 'friends ongoing'.... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:09:31 PM | people react to words differently...and see/feel words differently..
the best way to know anyone is to ask them ..everyone is an individual..
eg cookie monster hears the word cookie..goes off the planet... i hear cookie i dont eat them so feel benign... others hear cookie go ohh yumm.
for eg theres a difference between friends first and looking for friends..
anyone with intelligence knows making a profile here.... theres options.eg friends/dating etc
unfortunately its either female looking for male friends etc.. its not open to both options..
me personally im looking for friends ..people who have matured and see people as people without an agenda ..ie wanting something from them/motive.
I want to meet people with integrity/compassion, funny/smart etc... I live in a very small town.... and believe their are people with such qualities still living in this world.. albeit getting rarer and rarer as oppossed to self serving/etc..
myself Ive dated maybe 4-6 times in my life... im from a differ society to usa.. where from what i can see some self worth comes from having a date saturday night etc.. i may be wrong on that..... its just my observation so far..
my husband. i was not attracted too, but he spent alot of time visiting me. teaching me chess , we both liked music/books etc... over time I grew to respect him/love him. and enjoy him...... that turned to love....attraction. to the extent i thought he was the most beautiful man on earth..(unfortunately being young unaware , it didnt last.. ) but i learnt to take time to see someone that i fall in love with someones soul..then my emotions/sexual atraction will come into the picture. but thats me..
my next was a lover. started lust. but we fell in love.... once im in love im in love..and found out his character too late..lies/etc no respect no integrity etc..
so for me.. I will take time to see someones character first. but i dont play games i know who i am and what i want..( i dont need to date or have someone have that agenda, i need to if i was going to have a relationship know their underlying character.. im honest up front and hate seeing anyone hurt..
after that its their choice in who they are ..... thats ..theyre responsibility im not responsible for someone elses choices)......take ego out of dating and put reality in I say...
but find sometimes others operate out of neediness/emotions.. and I dont deal with their expectations/rushing etc too well.
you can fall in love from different ways. and everyone whos wise will learn from their experiences..
1,..lust/attraction/sex
2.ego/emotions.mind.
3.spirit/character/respect.(I choose this way to fall in love next .)
we all read people who date/connect/play the game have sex then one dosent call etc. but the person believed it was connection etc..then they are hurt/confused.. they didnt take time to know the persons motive/character..yet some of them are the same people who donot believe in friendship first...but lust/attraction..hello?
communication is the key to any relationship. ask what someone means when they tell you just friends..or what they want/mean on anything knowing someones motive/reasoning is learning them. and if someone dosent want to know you.. then why would you have sex with them
gee honesty is so great.. if they just want sex and you just want sex forget the game/the chase/the hurt/ the ohh gawd he didnt call ohh gawd im not gunna call etc... just say who you are and what you want..
noone gets hurt unless they choose too.
smiles/peace | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:24:22 PM | Fascinating the widely differing opinions.
I disagree heartily with those who are in this camp:
It treats friendship as if it were a somehow a subset of a relationship, when the truth is, they're their own separate things. You can have friendships, and you can have relationships, but sticking the two end-to-end so that you have to somehow graduate from one to get to the other strikes me as juvenile. This ain't junior high school.
On the contrary, I find nothing mature about following 'chemistry' when it leads you by the nether bits. That's just biology. That you have the hots for someone means nothing other than that your pheromones like each other - it's definitely not any guarantee of compatibility.
I've done the 'chemisty first' thing and I've done the 'friends first' thing and the latter is far superior. Your mate should absolutely be your best friend, and best friends are grown, not acquired through copulation. I can absolutely state that the passion which eventually grew from a 'friends first' relationship was much stronger than the 'chemistry' style. The latter is just lust. The former is true passion. So no, it's not 'juvenile' at all to graduate from friendship to love. Rather, settling for a lust-based relationship instead of one which arises from deep friendship is trying to be satisfied by munching down on a Big Mac instead of enjoying a truly fine gourmet meal.
If I say to someone that I want to be 'friends first', it means I think there may be a possibility and want to explore further. Somewhere along the line, one or both of us may discover that there isn't sufficient compatibility. Ideally, we both agree and nobody gets hurt. In the best of situations, we discover more and more about each other worth loving and love will grow from there. Rather than being based on the fluff of instant 'attraction', it will have a solid foundation and be the source of great passion. Or it will turn into a worthy friendship. Nothing whatsoever 'junior high' about that. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:30:20 PM | I view relationships as friends who are also lovers.
Ideally it's the closest friendship that you can have.
But I must also recognize that building friendships for the purpose of finding a relationship is dangerous on several levels.
So I tend to let things be what they are. | |
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