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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:38:23 PM | | From my experience, I would have to say that being a friend for maybe a few weeks before starting dating/relationship is perfect, but starting a relationship with someone who you've been friends with for a 6 months or more, is risky, and for me they have also ended is extreme emotional pain. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:47:50 PM | Everyone who is saying that friendship is part of a healthy relationship and that lovers have to be friends, is right.
But, the question is, does a relationship work if the participants are friends FIRST?
I believe, in most cases,the answer is no. Because the friendship between 2 people in love is a completely different kind of friendship. It develops alongside of, not before, the relationship.
It's how the couple knows they have compatibility and where they don't, it's what tells them where & what kind of compromise might be necessary & helps them determine if it's worth it. It shows them where their commonalities and differences are and what they will tolerate or not in themselves and in the other. It can, after a time, be what holds them together but it is very rarely what brings them together.
That's why so few couples are able to truly stay friends (not for the kids,and not on friendly terms, really friends) after a break-up. It's because their friendship was developed as a side effect of their relationship and one can't survive without the other. | |
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nike46
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Joined: 9/4/2006
Msg: 103 | |
| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:56:53 PM | | you want a relationship...................all b.s. aside, the bottom line is not homie lover freinds or friends with bennies, but a real relationship............ their's nothing wrong with that. the problem with friends first, is that at times you end up doing couple things like going out to dinner, movies, laying down comforting whoever, these are things that are not in the friend contract. and women are good at that game, they use u up, get what they want, alwhile your lying in limbo. got be up on your game pimpin, and let'em know aint' no love trick. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 8:23:51 PM | | I think it depends on what type of friendship you're talking about. Ordinary buddy-buddy friendship probably won't develope into anything more, although there's nothing written in stone about that. If you decide you're interested in a woman I think it's important that you let her know that early on, just chumming it up and then whacking her out of the blue with it never really works well. Whether you touch her, make her laugh, flirt with her, whatever you do it's best that you do it early on rather than later so she has some time to give it thought and decide whether or not she's interested in you. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 9:54:51 PM | Hi justcallme,
No, don't believe you are off. I totally agree. When answering forums it would often take a book to do a whole picture.
When I first meet a gal and find her attractive I watch for the signs and if I think she feels the same I will be progressively more affectionate, but it may be time, or no time before we actually do anything. I suppose thats what everyone is talking about as being friends first. But there is never any supposition to remain friends and both know it. (*Reasons for this are to variable to list)
On other occassions as soon as we sat in my car the windows started to fog up.
It's all good.
It's pretty much up to the person I meet and the chemistry we enjoy, everyone is different.
Guess we agree it is best not to just blaze in and take everything for granted. Things will develop as quick or slow as the relationship dictates. If slow the attraction will hold it together until it flowers, or not. If quick we can smell the flowers together. Don't think there is a right way or a wrong way as long as both are happy.  | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 10:50:27 PM | Thanks wild heart--all this guessing what the other person wants...is it a booty call...isn't it a booty call...is it nether parts attraction, should I flirt, be sexy...go along with "his ideas" in this realm? As **SOON** as the expectations become focused in a physical realm, the "romance"stagnates...
If outdoor exercise, socializing with friends, incorporation into each other's daily existence doesn't happen FIRST, then "dating" becomes a hideous mess of mixed signals and avoidance behaviors.
Sorry, but if a guy tells me he "dated" anyone--I assume he HAS been sharing his thoughts, heart, and activities other than sex. If it becomes apparent he means "bedding" someone...my guard is up, my emotions are in check, and I become a vigilant of his actions. Trust is damaged and daily how-are-you phone calls become empty 'friendliness.' If he shirks the questions, it's fairly obvious he isn't interested in much more than bedding someone--anyone. But not me.
Can someone out there tell me--isn't this how your last (failed) marriage/relationship evolved: Hot romance, acceptance, tolerance? And when did you hit a snag? When did you start living in hollow empty emotions? How come youse guyz went separate ways?
Quite simply, romance, entertainment, and biological attraction isn't a relationship--that might be the fuel that keeps the engine running, but it is not the engine. If your lives aren't fused in other ways that involve practical problem solving, shared ideas of the future, plans carried out that involve both persons' hopes and dreams, being/becoming physically involved is emotionally alienating.
Being compartmentalized--as friends or as sex partners--neither makes for a satisfying relationship, and shouldn't, anymore than chocolate and beer makes a balanced diet. So I ask questions, and better the guy is alienated by my questions than me by his lack of availability in these other realms. I have use the term "friends" to purposely put some "distance" between me and the guy's expectations; however, I think it's imperative to forge something greater than physical attraction. What's the proper term for that? It used to be dating. But "dating" today seems to be a euphemism for sex buddy. | |
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rjl143
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Joined: 12/26/2007
Msg: 109 | |
| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 11:27:45 PM | | Man, I think you have hit the nail on the head! What you have said makes so much sense, and I hate to admit it, but you are probably right! Sometimes I wish I wasn't a guy. But, oh well! | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 11:44:37 PM | You bring up a really good point Mike. I started with friends because I think that's where it starts, but then changed to long-term because in actuality that's what I'm looking for. I didn't chose dating because that could be misleading that you just want to swing and have fun. I'm not against fun, but that lends itself to pretty much the same as the bar scene...flavor of the week, or at least that the interest that choice draws.
The reality is that it takes time to develop a relationship...it starts with a hello, building a friendship with one another, then moves on/off from there. The difficulty I find is in making a choice from a pull down menu that leaves it to the reader to interpret. Even I question the selection I've made.
It would be nice if there were more honesty, but my experience has been to exercise caution. Everyone puts out their best profile, but is it real or true.
I pose this question: Do people generally put out a profile that highlights how they view themselves? When in fact, the person you meet is how other people view them.
On the bright side, now you know what you want.
Smile,
Cheetah | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 11:58:25 PM | Those kind of realtionships are completely worthless and amke you feel worthless. You should not being doing favors ro paying anyone's bills unless they got a ring ont heir finger. Relationships should be based on love, respect,a nd honesty. Most people don't understand these basic concepts. Sure there has to be some kind opf physical attration for anything to happen maybe even a mental or emotional attraction after talking to someone but to maintain a relationship you need a 2 way street. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 4:05:24 AM | I think it can work if you both go into it without expecting more from the relationship. For example if one or both of you are seeing someone else when you meet, and have an attraction, but don't act on it because of your significant other(s). Then somewhere down the road you find yourselves both single again. I believe something more can develop.
The Op however describes it this way [/I went for exactly the woman I wanted and basically followed her around and did lots of stuff for her. Treated her better than a friend anyway.] which makes it seem he wanted more from the start and she didn't so he decided to be the nice guy to try to win her affection. He was not a challenge, nor did he take a risk.
Women love the idea of being swept off of their feet, which involves some degree of risk for the man. We have to put our feelings out there from the start and risk being rejected. Sometimes it still takes a while for things to develop, but this way you don't risk being put into the "friend zone". Once a woman begins to view you as just a friend it is rare that anything more will develop. She may confide in you, ask your advice about men and dating, and cry on your shoulder, but that will shape your relationship forever in most cases.
If your intentions are clear a woman has to decide either to give a relationship a chance or not. There is no gray area. She views you as a potential lover and you then fall into one of two categories; a hot fling, or relationship material, and she will act accordingly. Friendship will usually develop as part of the process, and you may become very close and be able to talk about anything, but the perspective is different.
The other option is to be just friends at the beginning, but keep some distance and don't try to be her best friend. This way if she is attracted to you, you are a challenge. If she sees you out with someone else she may recognize feelings for you and actually pursue them.
All that being said, I have many close female friends including X lovers, and wouldn't take anything for those relationships, but I accept them for what they are. I don't act like a girl friend and talk endlessly about their relationships. I may listen and be a shoulder to cry on for some, but I don't want or expect anything more than friendship from them ever. I may fix something for them, or go out with them as friends, but if I see someone I am interested in while out, I wouldn't hesitate to act accordingly and neither would they. I might even be their wingman and vice versa. BTW, there is no better way to get a womans attention than to be seen with another hot woman (who happens to be just a friend).
So there's my two cents worth on the subject. I'd be interested to hear if the women here agree. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 4:30:07 AM | I think it's better to be friends first and play the field so to speak.
No one is ever hurt by friendship. And if one of your friendships turns
into something more, true friends will be happy for you and you'll be
able to tell who is sincere and who isn't.
But if you go into an intimate relationship too soon, you can never know
for sure if they really care for you or if they're just pretending to in order
to get their gratification OR if they're just using you for whatever else they
might get.
I guess it all boils down to consent. If you're mature enough to consent to sex
you should be mature enough to face whatever consequences come about
as a result. There are NO GUARANTEES. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 4:49:44 AM | What I'm seeing here is that MEN do not want to hear this "let's be friends" line from women. Whereas women are saying "what's wrong with that" Well the men are answering loud and clear as to what is wrong with it.
As I said before, if you state you are interested in the person, but want to start slow as friends you are being clear. If you say "let's be friends" and let the man do all sorts of favours and what not for you, it could be construed badly when you don't pursue or continue a romantic relationship with him. He feels used. Even saying "all I can offer is friendship at this point" is clearer than "let's be friends". This puts the ball back in his court to decide whether he wants to be "just friends" or not.
Everyone on here says they are tired of games, but when I read the forums I'm continuously convinced that most people like these games and in fact those that play them get more "action" than those that don't. Personally I think games draw most of us in subconciously whether you like it or not.
EDIT: I do think that being friends is important in a relationship, but I think most of us "get" that. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 6:12:30 AM | | i met my soon to be ex wife 6 years before we got together we were friends for about 5 years before we actually got together we both had seperate partners in that time but i always fancied her. the hardest part of our reletionship breaking down has been that i could no longer view her as the friend i used to know it has hurt like hell hearing that she had fell out of love with me but i guess thats the way it goes when you ve known each other as friends for as long as that | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 7:16:10 AM | I truly believe you people are the biggest bunch of knotheads I've ever met! Here's a dictionary definition of friend:
A person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
Do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't want your partner to feel this way about you? It's the old problem of communication between the sexes. Women and men often confuse the term friend with casual acquaintance. Friendship actually requires some level of emotional involvement with another.
Over the years "friend" has been **stardized to lose it significance which is unfortunate. A woman might say to a man who wants to be more involved with her, "I only like you as a friend." What a sad play on words. A clear response would be, "I like you, but I don't want to date you," or "I enjoy seeing you, but I don't want to be emotionally involved with you," or "I like you, but I don't want a relationship with you."
Women are truly notorious for being indirect usually trying to spare a man's feelings. What they usually end up doing is creating bad feelings. The man often times isn't quite sure where he is at. Should he pursue or not? A woman could save herself and the guy a lot of trouble by saying, "I'm not interested in you romantically." I'm sure the modern woman could find a way to define their feelings regarding any man even more clearly.
And for the not so modern woman, she can stop playing games too. She can switch from the passive to the active voice in her communications. Life is short and time goes by quickly. Before you know it, you've run out of it.
The Eagle | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 7:25:11 AM |
Women are truly notorious for being indirect usually trying to spare a man's feelings. What they usually end up doing is creating bad feelings. The man often times isn't quite sure where he is at. Should he pursue or not? A woman could save herself and the guy a lot of trouble by saying, "I'm not interested in you romantically." I'm sure the modern woman could find a way to define their feelings regarding any man even more clearly.
Quite agree with this Eric. If you look under the "I don't want to hurt his feelings" bit, I think what you often find, but isn't really acknowledged, is not wanting to touch her own hurting inner core. It looks compassionate, she thinks she is being compassionate... but actually it is a bit of self-preservation in action. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 7:26:13 AM | | my problem with this is why did you assume it was friends first and not just friends. ive run into this. the guy is attracted to me. thinks but trying to do stuff for me ill fall for him. if its not there it cant be created. but i do consider them a friend. then they ruin it by trying for more. my question to you is if you really liked her why did you feel the need to push so hard and just accept her for who she was, a friend. and if you liked her so much how come you didnt want anything to do with her just because she didnt want to be with you? sounds to me like you just wanted to get her in bed and when she wasnt giving you what you felt you earned you got your feelings hurt. you were seeing the "relationship" how you wanted it, not how it really was. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:23:38 AM | | I don't have time to cater to the friends I already have. When I meet a women on a first date {which involves a miracle taking place because of me being a single dad} and my compatibility and physical attraction is confirmed by meeting her in person, I don't care to spend the next 6 months to a year or whatever, to find out if we have that really really really deep emotional connection before I can hold her hand, kiss her a little, and pursue romance with her. Does that sound crazy? Don't get me wrong, I 'm not saying I want to jump in bed, maul eachother, or give her a tonsilectomy on the first date, but I'm looking for a connection. I don't want the "were just friends for now till I'm reeeeeeeally comfortable with who you are" cloud of stigma floating over me everytime I go on a date. I want to know that if I feel a spark and I believe I see it her eyes also that it's "okay" for me to move in for at least a hug and a kiss on the first date. What's the big deal? By the way, I think we all know as mature adults that it can take years and years to really get to know someone. Even "then" they can still surprise you. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:31:43 AM | Friends-first strikes me as a ludicrous concept proposed by people that have been burned in their past and have somehow deluded themselves into self-imposed emotional barriers... 
How do you possibly expect to be friends with someone while contemplating them as romantic potential, especially from a dating site? 
Why not cut the crap and simply propose "hey let's take it slow, no pressure, and see how it goes?", but don't try to pass the person off as a friend, you don't know them long enough for them to be any kind of serious friend to you, that's what dating is for: getting to know one another (no one said sex is mandatory, though certainly appreciated at times  )
I could easily camp out and be someone's friend for months while simultaneously contemplating them romantically/sexually. Heck I've got dozens of female friends NOW that I'm close to but not so close that I can't propose switching modes if I caught them at the right time at a party or post break-up... 
Also friends-first can make the other party more inclined to continue seeing other people in that search for a special someone... After all, if you're "just friends", what does he/she owe you in terms of exclusivity? 
Can't have your cake and eat it too people, life's about chances, joy and heartache. No "5th date rules" are going to save you from THAT inevitability.  | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:38:59 AM | It would depend on how it was said and if I had the feeling that things would grow inot more than that.
If the "let's be friends first" came out automatically like something that was practiced...then I would probably lose interest and let things end naturally.
If it felt like it was genuine and this was a person that I could really be friends with.....then I'd see where it would go.
Usually women that I am REALLY friends with aren't ones where there's a serious relationship component involved.
It's just easier for me if that's removed from table before we start.
So there are no mistakes or hurt feelings. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:45:14 AM | [Can't have your cake and eat it too people, life's about chances, joy and heartache. No "5th date rules" are going to save you from THAT inevitability. ]
Good Call! | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:46:17 AM | | anyone who seriously thinks it has to start with dating is nuts....i can't be going on dates with someone while getting to know them...i'm not comfortable with it at all...friendship has to be there or its just based of lust...lust is the worst thing to base a date on...theres no way someone can take an interesting in someone personality just from getting to know them... | |
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