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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 4:36:34 AM |
Well for one thing, they could pray to their god(ess/s) for someone to feel better... If one has no belief in any gods, they ( *) could hardly pray to their gods... Whether the act bears any fruit is another story but the act itself is a moral one. edit * = atheists (chello's edit for the sake of clarity)
Whether the act of praying for a sick person is moral act is an arguable point. There has been some contradictory evidence about the efficacy of prayer in healing the sick. I would put the point that the act may be quite an immoral one, if as a consequence of the act that the afflicted person's condition worsens.
If effective treatment is denied, or delayed to the point that treatments that have been demonstrated to be efficacious become compromised, and the patient suffers further than they need to....then, arguably....prayer would be highly immoral.
It has been suggested that prayer may indeed have negative outcomes...in the sense that a patient may feel that the problem may be worse than they feared. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 5:09:00 PM | | Wait celebrate our diffrences. There a people being killed everday in this world over a God that no one has ever seen before. They are dieng over a belief in a book and an idea. There is no celebration of religion when people interupret something that is left up to interpetation wrong and use it for negative purpose. Religion is a opinion based situation. We as people can not hold an Opinion over the world! That makes no sence. There is no truth to opinion. Religion makes us judge certain people just because of the God they believe in. Thats ignorant. The truth is religion is Seperation like Republicans and Democrats, Black and White, Democracy and Communisium, or Us and Terror. Knowing we all really work together to make this world work, these groups seperate us and are used to make havok all over the world! Oh and only Christians have the belief that you should accept those who are different. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 6:18:08 PM |
There a people being killed everday in this world over a God that no one has ever seen before. They are dieng over a belief in a book and an idea.
Some are... Some are dying because of greed... The greedy can use religion to control the followers but people should know (imo) they can only follow their own path.
There is no celebration of religion when people interupret something that is left up to interpetation wrong and use it for negative purpose. Religion is a opinion based situation. We as people can not hold an Opinion over the world! That makes no sence.
We as a people can recognize that everyone has their own opinion and the differences can be learned from... All things being equal, everyone should have an equal say.
There is no truth to opinion.
Some opinions turn out to be truths.
Religion makes us judge certain people just because of the God they believe in.
I disagree... That's just old fashioned, fear based prejudice which does that... There are many religions out there that don't practise separation or look down on differences in opinion.
Oh and only Christians have the belief that you should accept those who are different.
Absolute hogwash... Sorry. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 9:00:25 PM | A Fortiori said:
^^ Well.. those are certainly very pretty words coming from a young lass.... A youngling like you may very well not be as fortunate as you are today.. to speak such words.. But today you can. think that's due to religion ?? Think again miss... I'm sure that an 18 year old will have all the answers...I'm going to call BS on this. What exactly do you know about religion ?? What do you know about the beginnngs, the psychology, the politics, the inhumanity.. what do you know about it ???
WoW! Could you be any more condescending and attacking? What does her age have to do with the validity of her (simple and eloquent IMHO) words. You think you know better because you're 39? That doesn't make you wiser. It makes you a fool. Do I know better than you because I'm 53? Nope. I know better because I'm more intelligent (it was a rhetorical question)! 
What a nasty, little bully you are. Pffftttt!!!!!!! | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 9:23:30 PM | I have to agree.... unnecessary bullying. And quite frankly I too thought this fine young lassie summarized things quite eloquently for 'only being 18'.
And she's right, religion does and has had it's beautiful moments.... literature, music, fine art, architecturally gorgeous buildings, etc etc. Things that our society would certainly miss if it were all to disappear.
And yes, unfortunately it has been possessed to the enth degree by an ugly-control-mongering world. Truly a shame, it is.
Oh, and by the way, for what it's worth.....
I'm a full-blooded Atheist and yet am more than capable of appreciating (religion-based) beauty at it's finest and would vote to keep said beautiful artifacts in all their grandeur..... even if religion were to be obliterated tomorrow. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 9:32:03 PM |
WoW! Could you be any more condescending and attacking? What does her age have to do with the validity of her (simple and eloquent IMHO) words. You think you know better because you're 39? That doesn't make you wiser. It makes you a fool. Do I know better than you because I'm 53? Nope. I know better because I'm more intelligent (it was a rhetorical question)!
What a nasty, little bully you are. Pffftttt!!!!!!!
and:
I have to agree.... unnecessary bullying. And quite frankly I too thought this fine young lassie summarized things quite eloquently for 'only being 18'.
True enough, I did rather go overboard, and I should have been more understanding. So to that effect, my apologies to Urbanique, sorry.
As for you romanticoptimist, your own above display sinks you to the level that I hit, you rebuke me for my behaviour, which is fine by me, but then pretty much throw the same invective you rebuke me for. Hypocrite. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 9:38:07 PM |
True enough, I did rather go overboard, and I should have been more understanding. So to that effect, my apologies to Urbanique, sorry.
And on behalf of Urbanique, I accept your apology.
Now.....
Let's get back to bible bashing !
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 11:06:37 PM | Death occurs over many different things, mainly because it is an inevitability of all things born of this earth. However, wars are fought over differences in ideologies, greed, belief in superiority, lack of food, water, oil or anything the human mind can devise to take what other have. Societies produce ideologies, political, religious, social and etc., to produce structure with a society. These ideologies produce protection, safety, rules, laws and structure. However, more people die of car accidents than all the wars of all time. Is, then, technology inherently evil, because it causes death.
The only way to concur our differences is to move beyond ideologies to find sameness in all religions, differences, and unite as a species. This will not happen without great compromise and revelation. We have a long ways to come as a species to unity. With greater communication, greater working together, with greater understanding of our differences, comes hope. I am afraid only more war is in the offing before, eventual we come together as a species. Over 4000 troupes have perished in this war, how many death in American alone have occurred due to murder in the same time period. Over 20,000 souls were lost at Iwo Jima in one battle, and over 180,000 at Hiroshima.  | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/25/2008 11:45:23 PM | Nice2phku said :
However, more people die of car accidents than all the wars of all time
Hmm, I think I would need to see some actual numbers on that one. Until then I will have to disagree, what with the historical timespan of wars vs. the historical timespan of vehicles being in existance, and all. I'm sure you understand my eyebrow-raising on that comment.
The only way to concur our differences is to move beyond ideologies to find sameness in all religions, differences, and unite as a species
My question to that then would be : Which religion could be related to all others in order to accomplish this 'sameness' ? And no, I'm not trying to stir the pot.... just a sincere question because I can't see that one being at all possible. Albeit, it's a wonderful thought though. But certainly you see the conundrum here (ie: not all religions believe in any particular singular deity). | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 5:47:00 AM |
My question to that then would be : Which religion could be related to all others in order to accomplish this 'sameness' ? And no, I'm not trying to stir the pot.... just a sincere question because I can't see that one being at all possible. Albeit, it's a wonderful thought though. But certainly you see the conundrum here (ie: not all religions believe in any particular singular deity).
Well, Omnitheism is the belief that there is something in everyones take on the devine and many believe that because everything is interconnected, we are the devine.
Unfortunately, there isn't a working definition of "Omnitheism" in Wiki but I found this:
Omnitheism is a religious concept that suggests that there is some truth to be gained from all religions, and that all religions offer a path to reaching God (or a similar higher spiritual force). The word combines Latin omni meaning "all" with Greek theism meaning "belief in a theos"--a God or other divine force. An interesting parallel occurs with Pandeism, which combines Greek Pan with Deism, derived from the Latin Deus, but has a very different meaning.
Omnitheism recognizes that almost all religions aim for basically the same thing: the recognition and reverence of a spiritual force, which is thought to be responsible for the Creation of the Universe. Omnitheists therefore respect and honor all religions to the extent that those religions practice tolerance towards one another.
The word "omnitheism" is something of a neologism, with usage in internet forums going back to the mid-1990s. Other words which have been used with this meaning include Universalism and Syncretism, although each has had different nuance.
http://everything2.org/index.pl?node_id=1931354&displaytype=printable
I still think it's doable. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:05:31 AM | (Subject changed -- I disagree and it's offensive in its current state. You agree? Leave it as is. You disagree? Change it. Use your freedom to express yourself!)
The only way to concur our differences is to move beyond ideologies to find sameness in all religions, differences, and unite as a species.
No. No! NO! There will never be -- and should never be --- "sameness in religion" if by that you mean some sort of "One World Religion" that is the only one allowed or tolerated. Yeuch! Freedom of Religion means the freedom to believe ANY religion (or not). Belief is not something you can force on anyone. You cannot compel faith in God (for example). And if you could, why would you? Surely such an act insults God.
I don't want you or anyone else telling me what to believe or who to worship or what religion to follow. And I don't want anyone telling AncientMuse (for example) that she must follow this or that "god" or religion. I want to be free to believe as I see fit, and for her to believe as she sees fit, and for neither one of us to ever be in a place of power such that we could influence the other's choice other than by common discourse and dialogue.
I'd also like to see some facts to support the auto accidents v wars statement. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:15:43 AM | Whoa..... !
Wait a minute here. You mean I too would have to partake in this 'sameness' religion stuff ?!
Ok, I change my mind.... it's not a wonderful thought. It stinks of dog doo-doo !
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 9:27:08 AM | Well, Omnitheism is the belief that there is something in everyones take on the devine and many believe that because everything is interconnected, we are the devine.
How does interconnectedness imply divinity? If all people were to agree that there is something that can be extracted from all different beliefs which somehow "connect" us, how does that make it divine? All this implies is we all have commonalities in some way. Without some evidence for divinity, this sounds like argumentum ad populum. Hypothetically, we may be able to recognize a part of each others belief as being relevant to all our lives, but how does that go beyond the philosophical into the divine? | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 4:39:02 PM | Dear Muse,
People are in need of inspiration at all times. A muse is a good thing. No, not everyone would have to believe the same thing, that is ludicrous, rather; accept the bases that one religions is not better than another. If you are an atheist then by all means be an atheist, that is your right. However, ideologies are different than religions. Ideologies cover all aspects of a social group, which can be as small as a family, to international groups. Wars are fought over want of what the other has, and most often the conquerors adopt the ideologies of the people they conquer. They also bring into the land their own ideologies which, slowly become a part of the conquered.
The world is a long way from peace, or every achieving it. If our species survives, over time, we will have to become united in our acceptance of our differences. Not this constant, mine is bigger and better than yours, concept; my God is better than your God mentality. Another bugaboo, are atheist preaching their atheism in order to covert people; they are just making atheism a religion. Takes as much faith to believe we just happen to exist, than to say we were created.
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 4:44:10 PM |
How does interconnectedness imply divinity? If all people were to agree that there is something that can be extracted from all different beliefs which somehow "connect" us, how does that make it divine?
Well, in this way of looking at it, there would be nothing devine or all would be devine... If we are all part of the same thing, there would be no higher power.
Without some evidence for divinity, this sounds like argumentum ad populum.
Oh spare me! I am stating my opinions and simply said many believe this... I am one of them.
Hypothetically, we may be able to recognize a part of each others belief as being relevant to all our lives, but how does that go beyond the philosophical into the divine?
It goes into the devine because I believe we are the creative force here. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:03:52 PM | Without some evidence for divinity, this sounds like argumentum ad populum. Oh spare me! I am stating my opinions and simply said many believe this... I am one of them.
Relax, I was stating my view as well.
It goes into the devine because I believe we are the creative force here.
To try and tie this in with the topic, let's say that there is actually some kind of connectedness, a common ground found in all religions that people recognize, or even share. Let's say for instance, something good like the golden rule of treat others as you'd want to be treated. Would you say that the opposite could also be true? Something regarded as bad that could also be found as a commonality in all religions? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:10:49 PM |
If you indoctrinate your children into any faith, you are in a sense brainwashing them to believe in your invisible god creature. I stood back and watched my "born-again" sister do this with her children ... brainwash them into believing in her god. It was so bad at one point that she began to refuse to seek medical treatment for the children if they hurt themselves. Instead, she would take them into a closet and pray over them.
It is actually possible to believe in God while retaining your rational mind.. why must it always be either/or? 
That was shortly before Thanksgiving. I was living outside the country at the time and so did not attend a family Thanksgiving dinner in which, you guessed it ... the entire family from Grandma & Grandpa all the way down to the tiniest baby was exposed to lice. Gee if only she had just gone to the drug store and bought the shampoo to de-lice her son. Poor woman was convinced God would take care of it for her.
My younger sister and I consider her for "occasionally" temporarily insane. In the meantime, her children have grown into adults and guess what ... they not only have totally rejected her teachings, but also now must consider just how sane she is. They do not ever leave their children alone with her.
It's so very sad. A mother who has basically lost the trust of her own children and now has consequently lost the privilege of ever spending time alone with her grandchildren. What a price to pay for indoctrinating your children.
At the time, she was convinced it was the way God wanted it. BTW ... she's still convinced that God will convince her children as some point in the future that she was right and they will see the light and accept God back into their lives.
It's so difficult to stand back and watch it go on ... it makes me so sad ...  | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:58:34 PM | I dont get it. Why do you think its ok to be different in religion when it is preached to people as one word one truth. You guys make no sence on your defence of religion. This whole thing is an opinion. While some of you think that we are suppose to love our difference, there are some people who interpurate the word as saying there is only one religion one belief and difference are not to be tolerated. You can say what you want but this is happening everyday. Yes people die for many things But as far as I am hearing Priodistants and Catholics cant stop fighting and Muslims and Christians are fighting over Kosovo. To even hit closer to home.......if religion was loved amongst all then Obama wouldnt have to hold a confrence to tell the country what he represents. lol Religion is evil. The average person judges people off it no matter what your saying, our preisdency again is a great example.
Religion is a controling tool, an amazing one at that. Its controling a lot of you people writing these blogs. Its sad when people believe in something they have never seen even stronger than something that is in there life everday or that they can physically touch or talk to. People believe in God more than there parents who they know birthed them. People belive more in a questionable Jesus than in a Teacher who has shown you many things in life you didnt know and may have never known.
Point...Religion is belief and hope. This is not truth by any means for any religion. When you begin to affect others with your belief and you speak of it as truth you are now spuing lies/untruthes (cause religion again is not truth) and that is viewed as evil correct? To miss lead someone is seen as wrong correct? Belief is ok but to speak it as truth is wrong and is some cases to hurt others for not believing your belief is evil! | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/27/2008 9:35:35 PM | Let me tell you a true story. My uncle was an atheist, had am IQ of 151 and was the manager of a coal mine. The workers were alway complaining that they had to work on Sunday and he kept telling them, "It doesn't matter what you want, it is what I want, and I say we work on Sunday. So it went for many years until he hired a minister.
The minister said to him, "I must have today off, because it is Sunday and I have churches which depend on me."
My uncle, who was not a kind man, who just as soon shoot am man for striking against him, stood toe-to-toe with him and said, "Minister, I will make you a deal. If every piece of equipment brakes down, then you can go to your churches." As he was relating this story to me his eyes became stern, his face sullen. "You know, nephew, no sooner then I said that, every single piece of equipment stop working and could not be repaired that day." He said to me, "I turned to the minister and said to him, he could have every Sunday off, and that he had better not ever show up on a Sunday."
My uncle never became religious, rather; he became an agnostic, and every time he saw me, he related the same story. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/27/2008 10:06:16 PM | Hmm, sounds like your uncle was probably agnostic all along. If this story is true then what happened was no more than a big coincidence.
How much equipment are we talking about here? A few tractors? Trucks?
Was this incident documented? Can I read about it in any peer reviewed journals?
Not doubting you N2p, just after some evidence. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/27/2008 10:19:21 PM |
Relax, I was stating my view as well.
Ok... Sorry... Cool enough.
To try and tie this in with the topic, let's say that there is actually some kind of connectedness, a common ground found in all religions that people recognize, or even share. Let's say for instance, something good like the golden rule of treat others as you'd want to be treated. Would you say that the opposite could also be true? Something regarded as bad that could also be found as a commonality in all religions?
Well I can offer one that can be found in most... It's the "We are right, you are wrong" mentality... I think we all have a piece of the big picture. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/28/2008 9:31:21 AM |
Well I can offer one that can be found in most... It's the "We are right, you are wrong" mentality... I think we all have a piece of the big picture.
I quite agree.
I'll clarify my position though. I would say it is the doctrine of most religions that say or imply this. Of course members of each religious group may not adhere strictly to that "us right, you wrong" idea, some will, some won't. I don't know if you noticed the irony in it though. One of the commonalities is the exclusivity found in doctrine... | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/28/2008 10:54:22 AM | Is atheism a religion, if it is there is no way to avoid being evil.
Actually there is no way, it is human nature, chaotic lawless human nature, not creeds.
Creeds are like the opening page of various human operating systems, beliefs like programs.
You have to believe what you see when crossing a road, or no fear, no judgement.
What you believe effects what you do, and benevolent beliefs, commands to love, and creeds of it help good behaviour and the avoidance of evil. Evil things can be done in the names of such creeds. The creed is fine.
Many of us can testify to overcoming foul behaviour, through faith and power after it.
Creeds and faith also help us respond to changed people, forgiveness, there are many benefits. Not all religion is good, none are perfect, spirituality is much better, really spirituality is what comes close to but is not perfect. Religion is like a fossil it leaves behind after selfishness or jealousy.
We have never had perfect truth.
Preparing for Heaven makes a better Earth. No murder, adultery, stealing... Love, justice, mercy, healing.
We respect Doctors who are fair and kind.
We respect courts, who deal with issues of severe injustice and violence, we do not attribute the courts with the guilt, and watch in interest, prime time TV.
We respect the military, defending sovereignty, the police and our rights. They uphold freedom to live fair and propserous lives.
The judge is doing good work, the Christian Bible is like that. Law originates with Moses. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:36:59 PM | | You guys klill me on these posts. The question is "Is RELIGION the true evil. Now a lot of you are giving your opinion but your opinion is only from your religion. Understand that this question is asking about religion in general. Not just Christians or Muslims. All of them together. So if your a Christian and think thats ok how do you feel about the rest of the religions? Are they evil? What if your Muslim are other religions evil? Now think of the question. please stop answering like this is personal to your religion. Overall is religion evil? Yes it is. Why? There is no constant to it. Everything is situational. While you Christians tell me your rights and wrongs understand that the world isnt Christian and doesnt always go with your beliefs so saying them as only Chritianity will make no sence to this question. Its evil because religion effets peoples living and we all dont agree on it which only causes a rift between people in this world. Thats not good! | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 3/28/2008 6:37:07 PM |
I'll clarify my position though. I would say it is the doctrine of most religions that say or imply this. Of course members of each religious group may not adhere strictly to that "us right, you wrong" idea, some will, some won't. I don't know if you noticed the irony in it though. One of the commonalities is the exclusivity found in doctrine...
I have noticed... I mean, I can be for the "religious" experience and be against "organized religion" at the same time... I love the idea of sharing what we all believe on the subject but when it comes to any belief that I know the workings of the multiverse and/or God without a doubt would be to believe there was nothing new to learn... So I believe it's dishonest to say you have the "exclusive" view... Be it Theist, Athiest, or any of the others.
So I don't think the "religious" experience itself would be an "evil" to me... To make others follow my own way when I have to real tangible proof for them would be wrong, as well as discarding mine and following anothers.
Is that the difference between the experience and the dogma made for another to adhere to your own unique perspective?
I'd rather a follow a way that can learn and see the differences in views as a good thing... But to each their own... As long as they aren't trying to hurt anyone. | |
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