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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/1/2008 5:20:50 AM | I didn't mention Judaism.
When I read:
Secondly, the only reason the approach of Jesus is particularly unique is because only within Christianity is it required. Only within Christianity is the sacrifice of Jesus required and thus justified.
I was expecting you to mention other religions did not involve the conscience or repentance, or pursue a clear conscience, or such things Christians believe in. But then you mention Judaism and repentance.
Forgiveness must go with repentance. King David's Jewish repentance is famous, but it is not an exhaustive text and does not go into detail about Uriah's family forgiving David, or about David forgiving himself... He certainly would have sacrificed a blood sacrifice, as in psalm 51 he mentions hyssop and being washed whiter than snow. Also after that he mentions making animal sacrifices.
Look at David and contemporaries like him, someone has to accept that he repented, and is forgiven, merely must go through disciplines and then this father of a dead son and his wife will live forever with the repentant, forgiven offender in Heaven.
They understand that God forgave and gave a clear conscience to their enemy.
People viewed via the media and at home don't seem to accept that sort of thing. It isn't fair.
Various religions believe in good works to make up for wrongs. To please a god. In Hebrews it says:
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.
From Abel to Moses and David there is blood sacrifice. Abraham sacrificed animals and was tested to show he had the faith and heart of obedience to sacrifice his son of promises.
The ancient Chinese would sacrifice to Heaven.
God is just, and wanted a sacrifice for sin. For a time it was animals, as forerunners to Jesus, god's child of promise.
Also sin could have been dealt with quickly in Genesis before Noah, except as promised to Eve, it had to be one of the Adamic race that resisted sin and overcame death. Gen 3:15. Death is a problem for our race, not the angelic.
Why did Adam and Abel die if god could simply give them repentance and life, resurrection?
Sin and death had to lose it's power. It's power over our race. Israel found sin too heavy, and the law showed up sin. A way needed to be made open for sinful people to come to a perfectly just god, only a great few knew god's presence, such as Moses seeing his back in Sinai, and Elijah, and Ezekiel, who fell on his face when god revealed himself to him. Others died near god's presence because they grumbled... Exodus.
The concept of blood in relation to sin is OT. It has to be washed away, Hebrews says Jesus blood is much greater than that of animals. OT means "old blood covenant".
Israel regarded some things as unclean. You overlooked the unclean gods I mentioned.
I don't mean to write in detail. Where does it say:
an attempt to die for the sins of another is expressly forbidden in Judaism and is, according to the scriptures, expressly spoken out against as evil and unnecessary... ?
Here are some quotes:
Exo 30:10 And Aaron shall make atonement upon the horns of it once in the year; with the blood of the sin-offering of atonement once in the year shall he make atonement for it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto Jehovah.
Eze 3:20 And when the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and when I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood. And I have given it to you on the altar to make an atonement for your souls. For it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.
Animal blood atoned for, or covered, but Jesus blood washes sin away. Which is otherwise still there as a pressure to be lawless, and lustful, and increases from generation to generation. From Adam until now and onwards. Death is a group of spirits, jealous and legalistic, Jesus defeated them. Jesus blood gives the greatest life. Friendship in god's presence. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/1/2008 8:34:16 AM | an attempt to die for the sins of another is expressly forbidden in Judaism and is, according to the scriptures, expressly spoken out against as evil and unnecessary...
My way says much the same thing... But it's a grey area for me... To die to save the life of another in my books can be considered rightous (for lack of a better word) but to allow someone to die for your fortune would be considered pure cowardice and opportunistic... So I can still believe Jesus to be a good man while I am saddened by the actions of some of us who claim to love the man... Celebrating his murder as if it is a good thing and many still suffer for it today in moral confusion.
Blood sacrifice is discusting to me... "To prove your love for me you must kill another"... That is just sickening!
Sounds like a gang initiation.
Infinite energy wouldn't require someones energy to change forms before it's due.
Death is a group of spirits, jealous and legalistic, Jesus defeated them.
Really? I don't think so... Death is just the changing of forms... Jesus did not defeat change and in fact, to me that is what he stood for. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/1/2008 9:03:05 AM | | People Jesus was a human. Born of a women and died. He was a sinner himself. (seeing why the Christians didnt put all the books in the Bible and why you dont find Jesus until he is 30) Come on people you dont even get the full life of a person you belive in so highly. What was Jesus doing between ages being born and 29? This is whats evil. The fact that people take offence to something that no one knows the whole story about. lol All the scriptures you read, God never makes any referance that he created what we know as space. We just give him that credit cause it says he created all. What did all mean? Did it mean just our galaxy? Did it mean 50 galaxies? Did it mean just Earth? Please tell me? How can you take what you know is true now and put it with religion and not have millions of questions on this whole thing? The evil is people arent asking questions there taking whats told to them as truth. A teacher once told a student "the only dumb questions in the world are the ones that arent asked" I hope you guys are asking something to find the truth cause the "good book" makes no sence to what we know this earth to have been! At least science shows you proof! Jesus is a Theory (not been proved to truth). No proof of him past a book that has been rewritten many times before any of us got to read it. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/1/2008 12:43:43 PM |
From Abel to Moses and David there is blood sacrifice. Abraham sacrificed animals and was tested to show he had the faith and heart of obedience to sacrifice his son of promises.
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God is just, and wanted a sacrifice for sin. For a time it was animals, as forerunners to Jesus, god's child of promise.
...
Animal blood atoned for, or covered, but Jesus blood washes sin away. Which is otherwise still there as a pressure to be lawless, and lustful, and increases from generation to generation. From Adam until now and onwards. Death is a group of spirits, jealous and legalistic, Jesus defeated them. Jesus blood gives the greatest life. Friendship in god's presence.
It's pretty clear from this response again that you are STILL trying to describe a religion that you have no expertise in and are describing it purely from the point of view of another religions view of it.
If you actually knew anything about Judaism then you might be qualified to speak about it, but you are filtering all of your data through the lens of Christianity and frankly that's not only insulting and patronizing it leaves the answers completely wrong.
You're also off topic. Next post to this effect goes straight to the mods. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/1/2008 9:47:40 PM | Hey stonestongue, no need to harm someone to prove love. That would not be benevolent, and I have been trying to give the message of great great benevolence in Jesus teachings and actions, pointing out he is truly greatly benevolent, whereas other gods are less so, or not at all.
In Afganistan, recently soldiers encountered a grenade, some could duck, others could not, so one of them dived on the grenade and saved the other guys. Maverick courage. The good thing, he survived.
Jesus was not so much a maverick, he would cry and express his emotions. And would openly tell his friends he loved them and also said;
Joh 15:11 I have spoken these things to you so that My joy might remain in you and your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
A religion of love.
We despise he murder and celebrate his love and victory, and accomplishment for us. Jesus rejoices in the accomplishment, of disciples and salvations, and overcomings of sins... all the cross was intended to accomplish.
Jesus hated the shame of the cross, but saw it was needed.
Heb 12:1 Therefore since we also are surrounded with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily besets us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and sat down at the right of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider Him who endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest you be weary and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Only Jesus could die and rise. Peter could not, and he actually was a coward denying he knew Jesus. But Jesus forgave and reinstated him. Later he took courage and died at Roman hands himself.
My point, Jesus is extraordinarily good, and inspiration to Greece and Rome and Europe! The habitual worship of Jesus is inspiring, better to be spiritual. To ask for his spirit.
Jesus love is rooted in the development of European languages, through the Latin text and the King James Version, The German Luther Bible. It has influenced judges, senators, Kings, novelists, atheists and education, common values.
Sadly people maintaining the creeds did not truly love Jesus. Like the Spanish inquisitors. But the religion, better to say, spirituality of Jesus is unique and very good!
Death is a dishonour, we lose our bodies, god did not create death. It is a curse following Adam's sin. Legally bound to the Adamic race.
Following death believers and those shown mercy, are taken into god's presence. Completely spiritually and soulfully resurrected and healed, glorified. That is the change, but also it is for the body. There is another resurrection.
1Co 15:42 So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul," the last Adam was a life-giving Spirit.
1Co 15:46 But not the spiritual first, but the natural; afterward the spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man was out of earth, earthy; the second Man was the Lord from Heaven.
1Co 15:48 Such the earthy man, such also the earthy ones. And such the heavenly Man, such also the heavenly ones.
1Co 15:49 And according as we bore the image of the earthy man, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
1Co 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall bring to nought both it and them. But the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body:
1Co 6:14 and God both raised the Lord, and will raise up as through his power.
Hindus critisize Christians for believing in such a salvation, "why body resurrection?" They are often believers in gods with benevolent natures.
In the Christian religion Adam was never going to die, but after sin, injustice, Adam and Elohim could not walk together as friends, god is just, or righteous, and so he died, in spirit, from friendship, and later in body, cut off from god's presence. And his dominion, he gave the earth to the spirits of legalism and uncleaness. So it is cursed. Angels could not enter the earthly sphere readily, as in Daniel. Everyone dies, disease, famine, war, injustices...
The Christian religion, better to say faith, holds promises for blessing and life and goodness we do not know raised in a cursed world. It is not found in all religions.
Christians believe in a just god, of light and love, creator of all things, giver of life, the Trinity are friends, dealing with our race and our enemies the fallen angels, wanting to give us peace again, eternal life, friendship with god, sin overcome, holiness, love, justice, mercy, healing from disease, deliverance from demons, freedom, prosperity and glorification. That we have goodness more than perfect Adam did, in the end.
Col 1:11 You are being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might, so that you might patiently endure everything with joy
Col 1:12 and might thank the Father, who has enabled us to share in the saints' inheritance in the light.
Col 1:13 He has rescued us from the power of darkness and has brought us into the kingdom of the Son whom he loves.
Col 1:14 In him we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 He himself existed before all things, and by him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 He is also the head of the body, which is the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself might have first place in everything.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all of his fullness live in him.
Col 1:20 Through him he also reconciled all things to himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, thus making peace through the blood of his cross.
Col 1:21 You who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled by the death of his physical body so that he might present you holy, blameless, and without fault before him.
So Christianity and the beliefs of some other religions too are benevolent. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/1/2008 9:59:30 PM |
So if everything is reduced to energy, then what is energy but a force, and what is a force but a push and what is a push, but the voice of God.
What is energy? Where did it originate? What is nothingness? What the reaches of the universe and where does it end and after the end, what is beyond? If you ascribe energy of as the originator of the universe, then Energy has the same principals ascribed as God the prime mover and become your God. Sound more agnostic then anything else.
What about those things you cannot see, such as 90% of the universe or light waves, you cannot perceive or human have not thought of, yet. To assume you have knowledge of everything and can exclude a prime mover is an assumption on your part. Not all data has been accumulated in our three dimensions, let alone the eleven know dimensions. To limit a Prime mover is illogical. Logic speaks to deductive and inductive reasoning. If not then this must be the answer. When you have all the data, then; why not assume there is more to the universe than what has been observed. Wasn't too long ago, all data pointed to the earth being flat. If you can't see or feel it, then you should not believe in viruses, and you are disease free. No need to worry about being around a contagious person.
Or perhaps you believe the atom was discovered by the Greeks, when the Hindi people first postulated it. Yet, to this day, we know very little more than they did then. We just think it is a modern concept. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/1/2008 10:15:55 PM | ^^^^^ Nice2phku.. you're arguing against one of your own previous posts.
Winning?
:~) heh....
(see msg 394)..
Anyways, to try and steer this thing back into this dimension. I don't think one can actually define what is "TRUE" evil. Morality and immorality can be subjective and relative, so much so as not to really pinpoint something as "truly" evil. That doesn't discount that evil exists, I suppose that depends on the observers and other factors. HAs religion been responsible for what some may consider evil deeds, yes. Of course this doesn't discount that it has also been responsible for some good too. But to characterize religion as the "TRUE" evil in the world is erroneous. To characterize ANYTHING as "truly" evil for that matter is probably erroneous. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/2/2008 3:10:49 AM | You know what I think? I think that the premise in the original post is faulty and not to mention,I think that title of this thread itself is logically flawed. So as one tries to operate off of all this, then imo, you will have pages and pages full of logical absurdities/fallacies to follow. I have not posted over here and for one reason,when I personally believe(for myself only,keep in mind) and refer to something as nonsense, I just choose to say nothing at all, but my goodness,I believe that this thread has turned into one big fluster fvck.
And imo, trying to use the bible to disprove/prove the bible is not working over here,because imo,and while doing so,one has no more empirical weight of authority than thier opponent ?In other words,anybody got the original text ? Ya got a witness that lived during this time that's still around to verify and/or falsify your claims?
I think a rational discourse taken would be to at least have some type of crystallized intelligence and/or applied knowledge in the original language that a text was written or you may end up with word comprehension problems along the way. For example,when using it's original language ,I can take the word,reward and show where it is used twice in the same passage yet the word has two separate meanings.
I know ...I know...but where am I going with this? I am trying to attempt to show you that I believe that people do not only rely on evidence/proof while using what may be deemed as scientific rationality but also depend and rely on concepts of intentionality /intent of notion and rely and depend on one's own valued judgments. And for this reason I do not believe that there is one that holds the only true description of reality because I also believe that this one is dependent of things like description of time and word/language dependent as well. Imo,ALSO we give a word it's meaning used in a context and words and meanings lay the foundation to how we apply reason and logic.
So to begin;
I believe that the title of this thread,itself is what the majority over here have been operating off of,as I also believe that things have been narrowed down and/or inspired along the way more in the terms of, all that is done in the name of religion is the True EVIL in the world. And as a good friend and peer once told me,the thing about what may be referred to as fuzzy logic,it may often come in layers or degrees of what one may consider truth.
So my thoughts out loud would first include,"What's up with this part....True evil???"
The word,true attached to the word evil is simple enough in meaning...it is what is.....or A is A
Now add in the part,"religion is the true evil of the world"...in others X leads to Y
or in this case,does it? I seem to find imo, the logic used to build these walls are collapsing over a weight of contradictions or better yet ...something is either A or non- A/
Show ya where I'm going with that;
So does this mean that the extreme choices of evil/wrong/ bad(whichever word you choose) that are not done in the name of religion do not qualify as Trueevil ???? This is all a bit fuzzy for me...."If " indeed evil is the absence of good,then of those extreme choices and acts of evil that may have been fueled by things like one's extreme need or desire to/of and/or for hate,prejudices,wealth,power,societal worth,economic gain, ...an the list goes on ... then,am I to refer to this as lesser degree of evil in the forms of words like misunderstood love or less trustworthy or less than honest???
Maybe this now possibly solves the problem of all these prisons being so over crowed?(ah yes,before one jumps on that"most inmates are affiliated and/or have fostered/adopted a religion, don't forget about this name game over here....and 'in the name of religion' seems to be imo the most popular over here at this time.
And to add this quote,"Logics such as fuzzy logic have since been devised with an infinite number of 'degrees of truth'"....so let's see if it may possibly apply with the following as I try to give possible examples;
inmate #236,so ya murdered your wife when you found out she was running around on ya...it wasn't done in the name of religion so instead of this being trueevil,I think I'll just put this under misunderstood love.
inmate#259,says here you raped,murdered and robbed this 86 year old woman in her home......it wasn't done in the name of religion so instead of this being trueevil,I'll just call this the absence of good while one was being less than honest.
inmate # 440,it has been brought to my attention that you have killed another in- mate to show that your race is superior and you were merely marking your territory,get your 'street credits' so to speak and in spite of my personal knowledge and understanding of things like racism and that it comes with it's own ideology/set of beliefs that is also used to justify the subjugation and exploitation of another group....still yet, your violence and/or evil was not done in the name of religion so instead of this being trueevil,I'll just refer to this in terms of a lesser degree of sincerity and a lesser degree of legitimate evil
Or should one consider classical logic,meaning where the only possible truth values are true and false,then one could possibly even refer to these examples as a false evil. 
I should add,this play by play was only intended as examples to give mention to what I believe to be the same kind of fuzzy logic imo,that was provided in first place as I also believe that the title to this thread,itself to be logically flawed.
Now what seems to follow is mention of wars and while doing so,again,in the name of and imo,this is only done to try to give it a weight of authority to try an a pull off this true evil logically flawed label in the first place.
Is it a name game and one is trying to correlate it with a number game? In other words,did the death toll reach a higher number caused by extremism/fanatics of religion than any all other world views /ideologies/set of beliefs with possible agendas that embraced extremism just the same except these extreme choices of evil/wrong/bad were for reasons, such as example for money,power,influence,personal gain????
Hmmmmmm.......I'm starting to feel like someone that gets invited to a poker game,
then they hand em' a fixed deck. Oh well,maybe I can pull an ace at of hole,maybe can't....we'll see
moving right along,
Obsidian75 words within his post 4
the French Revolution or the Soviet Union were far more humane. They only slaughtered tens of thousands under the blade of the guillotine, and sent millions to their deaths in the Gulags.
words within Obsidian75's post 12;
Ah yes, that must have been why, during the reign of terror, the French Revolutionists erected a statue honoring human reason on the altar in the Cathedral of Notre Dame.
Indeed,I agree for I share the opinion and belief that what may have started out as a great "out burst for liberty only to then have liberty sanction the most dreadful acts of violence" and to further those thoughts;words found within a biography of Madame Roland;
On November 8, 1793, she was conveyed to the guillotine. Before placing her head on the block, she bowed before the clay statue of Liberty in the Place de la Révolution, uttering the famous remark for which she is remembered:
O Liberté, que de crimes on commet en ton nom! (Oh Liberty, what crimes are committed in thy name!)
And what about the Darfur conflict? The United States president,and only after about 6 months that pass, finally gets around to labeling it as a genocide, not mention the international treaty signed to protect others from these atrocities,these crimes against humanity,but after they gave it a label,imo, just sat on their a__ in fear of jeopardizing any information that could be gained along the way to further the war on terrorist campaign if you will that was on-going. Meanwhile others had their land taken away,forced into camps for means of possible survival,while woman are raped and men,women children killed.
By such atrocities/crimes against humanity,this genocide,....were these deaths lessened by degree or of less value because these extremes choices and acts of evil were not done in the name of religion?
Also, the first thing one learns about combat and war is "know thine enemy". If you know your enemy, you know how he will react. Ask Montreal_Guy. Ask anyone who has ever served in the Armed Forces. You don't know this! Strike Two.
First off,I want to say that I am thankful and appreciative of all those for their service to this country I live in as I am reminded each night I tuck my kids safely to bed,it's with blanket of freedom that you helped provide. And yet I also must add that I believe that A Fortiori and scorpiomover are both throwing strikes right down the middle/not even having to catch a corner of home plate....,for indeed I believe it to be"to know thy self" and "know thine enemy" and I say this as I reflect on a time in history;
he My Lai Massacre (pronunciation (help·info), approximately [mi.???'l??j??]) (Vietnamese: th?m sát M? Lai) was the mass murder of 347 to 504 unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mostly women and children, conducted by U.S. Army forces on March 16, 1968, in the hamlet of My Lai, during the Vietnam War. Before being killed some of the victims were raped, gang-raped, sodomized, beaten, clubbed, tortured, maimed, or stabbed. Some of the dead bodies were also mutilated.[1]
I didn't see religion being an over all controlling factor in this either.
in conclusion, A Fortiori last post added balance so my summary is compatible with his last post | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/2/2008 8:36:05 AM | Hey stonestongue, no need to harm someone to prove love. That would not be benevolent, and I have been trying to give the message of great great benevolence in Jesus teachings and actions, pointing out he is truly greatly benevolent, whereas other gods are less so, or not at all.
Then why does your version of God require blood to satisfy him? I believe Jesus was alright, but then he was just a man to me... Perhaps an enlightened man but a man.
A religion of love.
From your perspective maybe, but it's a religion of separation... And I assure you the people who were killed in the name of your god didn't think it was so loving.
Only Jesus could die and rise. Peter could not, and he actually was a coward denying he knew Jesus. But Jesus forgave and reinstated him. Later he took courage and died at Roman hands himself.
What do you mean? Krishna did it countless times, the Dalai Lama is reincarnated every few generations as I believe we all are.
Death is a dishonour, we lose our bodies, god did not create death. It is a curse following Adam's sin. Legally bound to the Adamic race.
Uhh... No... Change of form comes to all things... You really think humans are the only ones to die?
Hindus critisize Christians for believing in such a salvation, "why body resurrection?" They are often believers in gods with benevolent natures.
Because Hindus believe we all come back in different forms... Why use the same one? It doesn't take longer than 3 days to collect maggots.
And they believe in a miriad of gods... But the One, Brahma shows more love to all than the biblical version of God... Plus it requires no one to shed their blood to please It.
The Christian religion, better to say faith, holds promises for blessing and life and goodness we do not know raised in a cursed world. It is not found in all religions.
Correct... Faith is blind and those who have it can always claim ignorance if and when they are told that their actions and the time old copout of "just following orders" doesn't fly when it comes to purposely causing pain to others even if it's in the name of a god.
The dogmatic assumption that we are born "evil" is not found in all religions... Good thing too... Tell a kid they're evil, they will eventually believe you... The world isn't cursed except by the ones who would call it so.
So Christianity and the beliefs of some other religions too are benevolent.
Jesus may have been benevolent, but many followers of the Bible are quite the opposite.
Again, religion isn't "evil" (of course I believe "evil" is in the mind of the beholder) but the followers of religion can do some very bad things in the name of some higher power... And they continue to do so today... That is what reeks. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/2/2008 9:03:02 AM | | Religion doesn't kill people... people kill I say people kill I say people kill people... Now come along son and we'll find you a chicken to hawk. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/2/2008 10:54:50 AM |
you're arguing against one of your own previous posts.
Not necessarily, the argument that a virus is invisible yet exists, not to say it is no more than vibrations of nothing. I have not argued the illusion of reality is any the rest real if you believe it is real. It is a matter if mind over matter, excuse the pun.
As far as evil being embodied in religion, a human concept is a misnomer. Evil is "Having bad qualities of a natural kind; having bad qualities which tend to injury, or to produce mischief; injurious; pernicious; mischievous; having bad qualities or a moral kind; wicked; corrupt; perverse; wrong; vile; vicious; unfortunate; unpropitious; calamitous. ―The Evil One, the devil―n. Anything that causes injury, pain, or suffering; misfortune; calamity; mischief; injury; depravity; corruption or hear, or disposition to commit wickedness; malignity; the negation or contrary of good.” Webster Encyclopedia Dictionary.
People have bad qualities, not their concept of religion; people injury, not religion; people produce injury, not a concept of God; people produce mischief; are injurious; pernicious, mischievous; have bad morals, are wicked and religion is not natural, rather; it is a man made ideology. The Evil One is the self, the devil within, no demons, just natural defects in the human mind, either cause by birth defect, up bringing, or self decision, no the Devil made me do it.
If evil exists, it exist in the minds of human being. It is not out there, or other than the self. Go a head, eat the fruit of knowledge and know what is right or wrong.
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/3/2008 1:26:57 AM | | Religion allows people to co-exist in a moral and cohesive society. Without rules , laws and morality a society is doomed to chaos. Religion teaches the classic not to steal, lie , cheat , kill etc.. we know the story. Evil is caused by those who reject sound religions to justify their disbelief on morality - Know a religion (without bias) before pointing a finger at it, not vice-versa. The main stream religions all have great values. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:15:01 AM |
Religion allows people to co-exist in a moral and cohesive society. Without rules , laws and morality a society is doomed to chaos. Religion teaches the classic not to steal, lie , cheat , kill etc.. we know the story. Evil is caused by those who reject sound religions to justify their disbelief on morality - Know a religion (without bias) before pointing a finger at it, not vice-versa. The main stream religions all have great values.
History would prove you wrong.
Yes we need rules to co-exist but you appear to be claiming these laws stem from god belief.
They do not.
They stem from past societies gradually working out how to live with each other in a close group.
Religion, as always, is a Johnny come lately that claims to be the forerunner of such ideas through, wait for it, "communicating with a "god" "
You also claim that "evil" is caused by those of us who have no need of religion. Please take a look at the statistics for criminal incarceration.
Far more inmates are religious than are atheist.
Good men will generally do good and bad men will always do bad.
But for good men to do bad...
That takes religion. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/3/2008 3:54:47 AM | There is a lot of documented history!!!!!!!
Where is there an ancient civilization without a god belief? Sumer, Egypt, Moses?
Religion, from the Macquarie dictionary;
"/ (say ruh'lijuhn)
noun 1. the quest for the values of the ideal life, involving three phases, the ideal, the practices for attaining the values of the ideal, and the theology or world view relating the quest to the environing universe.
2. a particular system in which the quest for the ideal life has been embodied: the Christian religion.
3. recognition on the part of humans of a controlling superhuman power entitled to obedience, reverence, and worship.
4. the feeling or the spiritual attitude of those recognising such a controlling power.
5. the manifestation of such feeling in conduct or life.
6. a point or matter of conscience, especially when zealously or obsessively observed: *If she had not been at the same time, a practical woman, loving wife, and devoted mother, she might have made a religion of it --PATRICK WHITE, 1957.
7. Obsolete the practice of sacred rites or observances.
8. (plural) Obsolete religious rites. [Middle English, from Latin religio fear of the gods, religious awe, sacredness, scrupulousness]
Bibliography:
http://www.macquarienet.com.au/article?recid=000062480&db=dictbigmac_2006 "
Religion allows people to co-exist in a moral and cohesive society. Without rules , laws and morality a society is doomed to chaos. Religion teaches the classic not to steal, lie , cheat , kill etc.. we know the story. Evil is caused by those who reject sound religions to justify their disbelief on morality - Know a religion (without bias) before pointing a finger at it, not vice-versa. The main stream religions all have great values
Because of part 1 and 2 I see truth in mrdecember's view. It is like religion comes after a human faultiness and creates a productive for order, inner conflict we can win for good will.
It can be seen that belief in a god, or gods is inately human, most people do believe, if your in the US ninety percent of inmates would have a faith, just like outside. Also it is inately human to be lawless. To think or do unjust things sometimes.
Religions, some sorts, and lawlessness are in conflict in some people. I am saying that the religion can be good.
Faith and prophecy are not quite the same as religion. Moses for example, it is only part of it. Moses gave us laws, Jesus gave grace and truth. The latter is better at dealing with lawlessness, I think so.
An experiment was done in which children were left in a room with a box to play, candidly filmed. Later they were told not to open the box, and when left alone they got into it. A US study on TV.
Good men will generally do good and bad men will always do bad.
But for good men to do bad...
That takes religion.
Bad men sometimes become good from religion, John Newton, good men reject false teachers, look at Luther, not that he was good, just conscientious, very hard man. Good men find friends and coleagues in religion, fraternity. Bad men are condemned by their own conscience and faith. Others simply don't have a conscience.
Again, creed holders, were ambitious and had an improper if any love god and man, their true motives are mysterious, maybe power love. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/3/2008 5:36:52 AM | Then why does your version of God require blood to satisfy him? I believe Jesus was alright, but then he was just a man to me... Perhaps an enlightened man but a man.
Stonestongue, part of human nature, after god's is justice, for injustices and sins, cruelty... justice required penalty for the sinner, but only animals died under the revelation, and after that, only Jesus, went willingly in your place, and won and would love praises.
Jesus knew manhood, and in him was as one thing, the presence of god as in the Ark, the angel of the lord, god tabernacled with is.
What do you mean by people killed in the name of god? Moses, inquisitors...?
I believe we die once and then are judged. Why return? Why death? It is a humbler destiny than glory like Michael the archangel, decay in body or spirit is not from Jesus.
I am interested in the benevolence of Brahma.
I unhappily mention that Hindus are sometimes extremists too. Look at Thomas the apostle and we hear about Christians dying there today too.
I dream of a better world. Of Adam's former glory.
The dogmatic assumption that we are born "evil" is not found in all religions... Good thing too... Tell a kid they're evil, they will eventually believe you... The world isn't cursed except by the ones who would call it so.
I agree, children should have a mix of discernment and encouragment and humility. "As a man thinks in his heart so shall he be." Solomon. And cruelty in the name of love reeks. Faith, salvation and Jesus blood means children are then born holy. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/3/2008 9:25:17 AM | Stonestongue, part of human nature, after god's is justice, for injustices and sins, cruelty... justice required penalty for the sinner, but only animals died under the revelation, and after that, only Jesus, went willingly in your place, and won and would love praises.
See? I don't buy that Jesus erased our wrong doings... That is not justice, that is a cop out... Now any person can cause pain to whoever they please as long as they hail Mary... Justice and sacrifice do not go hand in hand... Justice doesn't pass the buck... Compassion taught and shown is compassion nurtured... I beleive Jesus was a good man and went to his death thinking he was doing the right thing, but then again, he had no real choice... He would have been chased down if he ran anyhow... If he went in everyones place, why were others crucified along with him? Did they die for our sins too? Just Jesus? In my Way, Jesus was just one of many... A brother and teacher but not a saviour.
I unhappily mention that Hindus are sometimes extremists too. Look at Thomas the apostle and we hear about Christians dying there today too.
Sure they are... There are extremes in every spectrum but if we all just remembered (or at least the majority of us) there is no "us and them"... Only us... Difference in Ways could be looked at as something positive, not something to be feared out of some perverse desire of "reward" for doing what you should be doing anyways... Living and letting live... We shouldn't need to be rewarded for being kind to one another.
And cruelty in the name of love reeks. Faith, salvation and Jesus blood means children are then born holy.
I agree with the first sentence, but the second is the sort I cannot see past... Children were never automatically "bad" just for being born... In this we will never see eye to eye... I believe we are here out of Gods curiosity and are all--every one of us--God manifest... Information collectors for the whole (to put it unromantically).
But we are entitled to our own views and neither can be said to be right or wrong... Once one Way claims to negate another, the "evil" into religion is born. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/3/2008 3:02:38 PM | | Wow still only ususing Christianity as the word Religion? The Question is "Is religion evil?" Dont tell me that Christianity is better or right vs another. The question is "Is Religion Evil?' Tell me why its not evil that some people believe in different Gods and different storyies then they judge people by them. Tell me why its not evil that in this thread only religion brought up is Christianity. Look until you guys can answer the direct question I ask you stop posting for the fact that you guys are so far off the thread its rediculous. Oh and if you want to defend Religion as a whole lets not continue to only quote from one religion. This is a very broad question, lets not shrink it! | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/3/2008 9:37:40 PM |
Look until you guys can answer the direct question I ask you stop posting for the fact that you guys are so far off the thread its rediculous. Oh and if you want to defend Religion as a whole lets not continue to only quote from one religion. This is a very broad question, lets not shrink it!
You have the answers? Do you have anything relevant to add or are you just going to do a play by play the whole thread?
To defend religion, one can only speak about what they know of... Christianity is not the only religion spoken of in this thread... I speak of my way which is far from Christianity and Hinduism has been mentioned a few times... The main religion taking offense here is Christianity and that's why you'll hear more of the Christian perspective.
This thread is an attack on religion afterall... What did you expect to happen? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/4/2008 9:50:42 AM | | What I expected was a true defence for religion not for one religion vs another. This thread is not for you to defend your personal religion. Its to defend religion as a whole. Its like asking a football player to talk about the NFL and all he talks about is his team. The NFL is bigger than one team. Religion is larger than your personal belief. No matter what you believe in to have a grasp on the word Religion I would say you should get educated in all religion. I think if your gonna believe in a religion you should learn them all so you can make what they call an educated decision. You saying what your saying proves my point its evil. lol People saying there belief is right but dont even know anything about anothers belief to say its wrong. This thread is for Relgions to come together and defend together. Religion is evil becuase anyone can go out and make up a religion. lol We can all come together and call ourselfs a group that praises something and become real. You dont think that is a tad bit crazy? Rastapharians smoke marijuana cause they say its ok but its against the law. lol is that not bad? How about that Catholics believe you shouldnt eat meat on Friday and Christians eat meat anytime they want including friday. Wouldnt that make Catholics think Christians are somewhat bad? Muslims feel they have to fast for God but Not to many other religions do that. Is it ok that muslims see others as bad then? See I have arguments for all religion to show you that the differences in each makes it so religion is negative because it is a sepration in people cause at the end of the day different religions dont come together like 2 sporting teams who face eachother then after the game have love for one another becuase they understand they also have in common that there under the unbrella called the NFL. In this thread All religions can come together to make a defence for the Big Word Religion. Under Religion is Christianity, Muslims, Moormans, Catholics, Budist, Rastas, and many more. Defend why all these things togehter are not evil! | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/4/2008 4:09:23 PM | | Religion is evil and religion is good. It's all in how you define it. Religion is what you believe. Religion is like belly buttons, everybody has their own. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/4/2008 4:53:41 PM | | so tell me why everyone having there own religion is not evil? What good does that do us? Everyone believing in something all different that is suppose to be about a true event(s). If its suppose to be a true event(s) then there is only one truth. This is each religions belief. So how is a whole bunch of these positive for our world/community? I cant understand why anyone would think that something has any good to it when there are either a whole lot of lies being thrown around or there all lies. There is only one truth to real events I state again! Lies are evil no matter what religion you are also! Right? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/4/2008 4:56:55 PM | | Religion is just a word. So how can "Religion" be doing all this evil. Can religion hold a gun? Can religion press a computer key? Its people, humans, groups. You can have a loaded gun on a table in a room with many people of different faiths. The one who picks up the gun and shoots it at someone is a murderer. Plain and simple. What if it was everyone in the room that had the same faith and someone pulled the trigger? You can claim that people or a group of a certain faith or not of any faith group killed many people. Its the world that we live in. Its been going on for since man is on this planet. Actually stated with Cain. It starts in the mind and ends with the finger. Those that kill because of faith are fanatics, bent out of shape, not in there right mind, evil and wrong to have believed that killing is the answer to what? More killing? Getting even? And that person which acted on it is to blame. So to blame a religion gets the one doing the shooting off and you end up not blaming the one who pulled the trigger. But I will say: this evil exists in all forms not only in faiths but in jealousy, cohabit, anger, resentment, pride fullness, power and at times just for the heck of it. So what do we do to stop it? If we all lived by the ten commandments I mean everyone. Would you think this world would be a better place? Wait to some that's......... Religion! | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 4/4/2008 5:14:28 PM | | sckoul i think evil is kinda harsch word but i understand your point,religion is man made so if there is as you say evil the evil is done by man.the different types of religion and the branches thereof has separated the human race into thousands of sects or groups each saying they are the only way,and each doing the complete opposite of what their religion was suppose to do and that being to unite the world.religion is the basis for belief in this human world and has brainwashed mankind and has gone as far as to alienate groups and races against each other,wars are fought over religion etc etc etc.There will come a time when mankind will realize physical religion is the downfall of humanity and the world and that spiritual religion will take its rightful place and unite the world and mankind then will realize that this world or creation is not about the physical but the life within us all,for the life within all living things has no dogma,race,gender or politics | |
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