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| Oprah is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/29/2008 4:17:40 PM |
Religion (vs. spirituality) is for those who refuse to be courageous and think for themselves. Your opinion, of course. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/29/2008 4:19:31 PM | Great Kissing:
Religion (vs. spirituality) is for those who refuse to be courageous and think for themselves.
I am self-identified as "religious" and I have no problem challenging some of the anti-religious viewpoints held by the rest of the world, even if I'm the only one on earth doing so. I do plenty of thinking for myself, thank you very much.
Most people behave like sheep following a Shepard because they refuse to challenge anything they have been told
That may be true. It is certainly applicable not only to your standard religious leaders, but also to the millions who follow who I sometimes call the "Apostles of atheism": Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. It can even apply to those who follow gentlemen such as your own Walsch and Cohen.
And likewise, it's entirely possible for rational, critical thinkers to freely choose to switch from one position to another, to join conventional theism, or radical atheism, or any other belief.
You have not said anything groundbreaking here. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/29/2008 5:31:54 PM |
Sassyaquarius thanks for your comments and I am happy to see that the grace of God I talk about is of interest to you, but at the same time I am not surprised that you are interested as you seem to have a great interest in a variety of different philsophies, religions, and spiritual topics. As I have said many, many times in here... I enjoy cutting through the divisiveness to find the ground where we can all stand.. thank you for meeting me in the middle and for taking the time to explain things from your perspective.. I appreciate both very much 
There are definately differences in how you and I see things, but its funny how when you actually look.. when you take the time to ask as opposed to assume.. to listen as opposed to judge.. I find that beneath the differing semantics.. the spirit is often the same...
Its like viewing a diamond from different angles.. we are all perusing the same stone, yet depending on the vantage point... different facets will be highlighted..
Again, thank you for your time :)
Ravenstar:
Sassy
I know EXACTLY what you mean
it's all grace...every little speck
Namasté Thank you so much for saying so... it makes me feel a little less alone in the world  | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/30/2008 4:50:04 AM | Jacobus-
If we were to follow the church's teaching, then none of these scientific discoveries would have advanced, and the entire world would look like Afghanistan, with all of the religious ignorance and intolerance that goes along with it.
False.
You might want to stop drinking the anti-religious Kool-Aid and pick up a book by Dr. Thomas Woods entitled How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization
I somehow doubt that you're able to declare this notion false. You are the one decreeing that belief in a Theistic God, despite any evidence to suggest it's true, is somehow acceptable. I didn't say that 'the church' had no place in the development of society, only a fool would argue that point, and I am no fool. Religion, the church, played a tremendous role in the development of the human race. I made the point earlier that religion came from our early bawling fearful childhood as a species, and indeed brought a sense of solidarity to the human race. Not only that but it added rich culture and art, not to mention poetry, literature and architecture.
Be that as it may, we as a species are moving beyond this 'childhood' panacea. Science has advanced exponentially (obviously) and we need not be as fearful and unknowing, ignorant, of what makes our planet, and our species, tick.
North Korea is a perfect example of a worshipful state in modern times. It is hermetically sealed off from the rest of the world, and it's people are ruled by a fascist who demands he, and his dead father, the President of North Korea, be worshiped.
You need not be so long-winded in your replies to me. You can simply make your point and move on from there, unless your goal is to re-read your words for self-sanctimonious purpose. I suspect that most would find it a bore as I did :)
I've read ahead to your next argument, and your 'challenge'. Since I've already answered your challenge in historical reference by pointing out the scribes of the day and their role, and since I've no need to impress myself with what a college professor has recently taught me, allow me to present a challenge to you.
Can you name a single moral act by a person of faith that could not have been performed by a person who doesn't ascribe to Christian, or other religious doctrine :)
Thank you. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:13:44 AM |
Can you name a single moral act by a person of faith that could not have been performed by a person who doesn't ascribe to Christian, or other religious doctrine :)(
Jesus hanging upon the cross spoke forgiveness upon those who had sealed his fate to death on that very same cross.
This could not have been performed by any person who doesn't ascribe to Messianic Judeaic Christian religeous docterine - nor could it have been performed by any other man than the Messiah and fullfillment of our salvation.
http://www.4catholiceducators.com/7words/forgive.htm | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:10:40 AM |
Jesus hanging upon the cross spoke forgiveness upon those who had sealed his fate to death on that very same cross.
Firstly, you are avoiding the question,
Secondly,
This could not have been performed by any person who doesn't ascribe to Messianic Judeaic Christian religeous docterine - nor could it have been performed by any other man than the Messiah and fullfillment of our salvation.
When the King of the Jews was supposedly crucified, there was no "Judeaic Christian" anything.
The Christian religion was far into the future.
Thirdly,
The sacrifice of any soldier who fights for what he truly believes in, ie: the allied troops who gave their all to free the pacific in WW2, is far more worthy of our attention, than a supernatural hero in an old folk fable.
In my humble opinion. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/30/2008 12:36:25 PM |
Firstly, you are avoiding the question,
Secondly,
This could not have been performed by any person who doesn't ascribe to Messianic Judeaic Christian religeous docterine - nor could it have been performed by any other man than the Messiah and fullfillment of our salvation.
evolving62
If I could answer your question I would agree that many unbelievers in Christ can still live decent moral lives and do acts of charity and kindness, and this is not an assumption, this is a fact. I know many people who have a Christ-like personality and they have no belief in Christ..
Paul also verifies this as being the case in his day.
Romans 2
14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
An entire read of Romans is helpful in bringing what Paul is saying into the correct context.....but I just selected this verse in hopes that what is being asked by you is answered.
As far as what Jesus accomplished on the cross and no other man being able to accomplish revolves around His mission of restoring and releasing the blessings of the law upon humankind. Jesus fulfilled the law, every jot and tittle, and this includes both the righteous requirements and also the blessings in the law. Though any man could be martyred, only one man's death has fulfilled all the necessary requirements of God's law in order that His blessings and promises in the law could be released to us.
The law of Jubilee is a law that only Christ could fulfill, and only through Christ can the jot and tittle of the law of Jubilee become a spiritual reality for us....to read up on the law of Jubilee, it can be found in Leviticus 25. I have found that understanding this law of Jubilee and how Christ has fulfilled this law, is beneficial in my own understandings of Christ's complete mission. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/30/2008 5:24:29 PM | I appreciate your response, but if you believe that Jesus was just a man, why are you defending him as God himself? :)
I'd hang on a cross, hell I'd hang upside down on a cross and speak forgiveness to the worst of the worst, if I thought I'd live forever and have unlimited power over the natural universe. I doubt I'd be the only one..
Mark :)
Jesus hanging upon the cross spoke forgiveness upon those who had sealed his fate to death on that very same cross. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:01:40 PM |
I appreciate your response, but if you believe that Jesus was just a man, why are you defending him as God himself? :)
This might help....not my explanation, however I do agree whole-heartedly with the writer, ....because I have retyped this work, it probably contains grammatical errors....so that is my fault...
Though a bit complex, I must stress the point that the eternal Son of God/Logos-who, prior to the incarnation, was one in nature (wholly divine)—became, in the incarnation, two in nature (divine and human) . The Son/Logos who had already been in the very nature God, for all eternity past, joined Himself not with a human person but with a human nature at the incarnation.
One of the most complex aspects of the relationship between Christ’s two natures is that, while the attributes of both natures are properly attributed to His one person. Thus Christ at the same moment in time had what seemed to be contradictory qualities. He was finite yet infinite, weak yet omnipotent, increasing in knowledge and yet omniscient, limited to being in one place at one time yet omnipresent. In the incarnation, the person of Christ is the partaker of the attributes of both natures, so that whatever may be affirmed of either nature—human or divine—may be affirmed of the one person.
Though Christ sometimes operated in the sphere of His humanity and in other cases His deity, in all cases what He did and what He was could be attributed to His one person. Even though in His human nature He knew hunger (Luke4:2), weariness (John4:6), and the need for sleep (Luke 8:23), in His divine nature He was omniscient (John11). All of these were experienced by the one person of Jesus Christ.
Christ operated under the influence of one or the other of His 2 natures. He operated in the human sphere as it was necessary for Him to accomplish the eternal plan of salvation. At the same time, He operated in His divine sphere to the extent that it was possible in the period of His humiliation. (Philippians 2:6-9)
For example, Christ’s initial approach to the fig tree to pick and eat to relieve His hunger, reflected the natural ignorance of the human mind (Matthew 21:19a). That is in humanity He did not know from a distance that there was no fruit on that tree. But then He immediately revealed His divine omnipotence by causing the tree to wither. Again , Jesus in His divine omniscience knew that His friend Lazarus had died, so He set off for Bethany (John11:11). When Jesus arrived, He asked in His humanness, without exercising omniscience where Lazarus had been laid.
The verse above from Mark 13:32 Jesus was speaking from the point of His humanity, and as a human being Jesus was not omniscient but was limited in understanding, just as humans are.
It must be clear that Jesus was omniscient in His divine nature—just as the Father was. The apostle John said that Jesus “did not need man’s testimony about man, for he knew what was in man” (John2:25). The disciples said “ Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you have came from God” (John 16:30) After the resurrection, when Jesus asked Peter a 3’rd time if he loved Him, Peter responded, Lord You know all things; you Know that I love you” (John21:17) | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:59:24 PM |
I somehow doubt that you're able to declare this notion false.
Of course I can. Look at the statement in question:
If we were to follow the church's teaching, then none of these scientific discoveries would have advanced,
Not at all. The Church has stood behind the constant improvement of scientific knowledge. Among other things, the Church requires good astronomers to perfect the calendar for such things as the dating of Easter and other feasts. The Gregorian calendar, which came from the Catholic Church and is the one we use today, is probably the most accurate calendar in use in the world. Even today, one of the most prestigious observatories in the world is the one maintained by the Jesuits in the Vatican City, with the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
and the entire world would look like Afghanistan, with all of the religious ignorance and intolerance that goes along with it.
Catholic Europe of the 18th century has seen better days than modern Afghanistan, and was always progressing forward. Holding Afghanistan as an example of all religious societies would be like taking Mao's "Great Leap Forward" (a great leap backward) in China as the perfect example of a society "free from God".
North Korea is a perfect example of a worshipful state in modern times. It is hermetically sealed off from the rest of the world, and it's people are ruled by a fascist who demands he, and his dead father, the President of North Korea, be worshiped.
North Korea would call itself a society "freeing itself from religion", in keeping with the Communist ideal. All religious activities, if allowed at all, are heavily regulated by government forces.
You need not be so long-winded in your replies to me. You can simply make your point and move on from there, unless your goal is to re-read your words for self-sanctimonious purpose. I suspect that most would find it a bore as I did :)
If you say so.
I've read ahead to your next argument, and your 'challenge'. Since I've already answered your challenge in historical reference by pointing out the scribes of the day and their role
No evidence? No argument. Now, you're certainly allowed to say that you believe it happened, as a matter of faith. But you can't assert it as a fact without evidence.
Can you name a single moral act by a person of faith that could not have been performed by a person who doesn't ascribe to Christian, or other religious doctrine :)
Meaning?
If you mean to ask about people who would not otherwise perform "moral acts" if it were not for being Christian or holding to some other form of religion, then a few examples come to mind. In ancient Roman times, Christians were unique in caring for lepers and other sick people and even bringing them inside their homes, because everyone else
After the conversion of the Roman Emperor Constantine, he (among other things) ended the persecutions of Christians, issued a ban on gladiatorial combat, required prisoners to have sunlight in their cells, and ended death by crucifixion.
St. Francis of Assisi was a soldier of fortune before he experienced a mystical vision. Afterward, he took on the life of a mendicant friar, caring for lepers, begging for alms for the poor, and establishing the Franciscan Order which continues to care for people today.
But if you meant something else, then explain. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 8:50:37 AM | As far as what Jesus accomplished on the cross and no other man being able to accomplish
I believe the question was " Can you name a single moral act by a person of faith . . . ?"
From what the church teaches, Jesus was God incarnate on earth.
So was Jesus just another man (person) who could die,
or was he God who could not?
Big difference to me in someone that can die who gives their life for another,
and someone who can never die who gives their "life.".
Religion is not the true evil in the world because
religion does not harm people. People harm people.
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:58:39 AM |
From what the church teaches, Jesus was God incarnate on earth.
So was Jesus just another man (person) who could die,
or was he God who could not?
Big difference to me in someone that can die who gives their life for another,
and someone who can never die who gives their "life.".
When you understand that the Logos/Son of God was the source of life and that He entered death by taking upon human flesh, you will see that Jesus actually carried the cross from His birth til His death. The cross symbolizes death, when christians are called to carry the cross, it doesn't imply many different crosses for each individual that they are to bear...But they are called to bear that one 'cross' and that 'cross' is a way of walking in this life, and it is the same cross that Jesus bore. The Logos/Son of God entered into death at conception in the incarnation, understanding this will help see how Christ actually gave His life and embraced death, by leaving the realm of glory that He had with the Father inthe beginning of time, and came to earth ( the realm of death) to partake of death by being made into human form. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:28:49 PM |
The cross symbolizes death Really? You might find this an interesting read then :)
http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_of_cross.htm | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:49:40 PM | Guy named Ray:
I believe the question was " Can you name a single moral act by a person of faith . . . ?"
From what the church teaches, Jesus was God incarnate on earth.
So was Jesus just another man (person) who could die,
or was he God who could not?
I think that's a valid question to bring up. Speaking as a Trinitarian Christian, I believe that the Trinity is made up of "one God in three Persons" (Three Hypostases in one Ousia), so the Son would make a Person (in Greek, a hypostasisas well.
But I sense that by "person", you mean to say a mortal. I also believe in the immortal soul. Thus, when we speak of death, that really only refers to physical death. The soul remains alive forever, but in another state (heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo, whatever). In this sense, all people are immortal in some way. It's this belief that has allowed martyrs to face imminent death without fear or second thoughts.
So in ordinary Christian belief: yes, God died on the cross and descended into hell. And He was raised up, as He says all men will be raised up at their judgment, but only some are granted eternal life (a glorified body and everlasting happiness in union with God) and others are condemned to be eternally separated from His glory.
Big difference to me in someone that can die who gives their life for another,
and someone who can never die who gives their "life.".
And so, what I'd conclude is that God was not so much different in dying, but rather, He was conforming or uniting Himself to man. One can think of it as God the Son enduring and experiencing what all mortals have to go through, in order to be a perfect mediator between men and the Father.
I'll grant that this explanation might sound lame at the moment, but I haven't eaten anything all day and I need to step out for some lunch. 
Sassyaquarius:
Really? You might find this an interesting read then :)
http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_of_cross.htm
Oh, good grief, Alexander Hislop was like the Jack Chick of his day. What a hack. I'll get back to that whole article later.
Besides, a symbol can mean anything you want it to mean. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:52:39 PM |
Really? You might find this an interesting read then :)
http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_of_cross.htm
closing thoughts from the website articles......
Let us rather use the true rendering of the Scriptural words stauros and stauro, namely "stake" and "impale" and eliminate the un-Scriptural "cross" and "crucify".
sassyaquariua
thanks for the link, butI have read this before and have discussed this with others before on whether 'stake' or 'cross' wa sthe actual instrumnet used as a form of punishment for criminals.
I hate to argue word semantics on this because the meaning of 'cross' or 'stake' goes much deeper than the type of instrumnet used as punishment. The greek word 'stauros' is used to describe a variety of wooden structures used for execution, history authenticates this as factual...structures such as diagonal beams, wooden structures shaped as a 'T' or even a '+' are included as well as a simpe upright stake with no cross peices.
To support the view that Jesus died on a cross structure a couple of verses can be used to arrive at these conclusions...
John 20:25
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
What should be noticed is the plural usage of 'nails', and if Jesus was nailed to a stake, why would more than one nail be used to accomplish what was necessary. The usage of plural 'nails' implies that both hands were nailed individually..
Another verse is when Peter was told how he would die...with his arms outstretched,
John 21
18Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
19This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
it is also reprted that Peter preferred to be crucified upside down and not in the same upright way in which Christ was crucified as he considered himself unworthy to die in the same manner that Christ did...so if Peter was prophesied to die with his arms outstrecthed and this is the same instrument that was used in Jesus' case, and the instrument of death was an upright stake, then Peters arms would not have been outstretched but would have been placed together.
Matthew 27
37And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Again if Christ was crucified with His hands above His head then it should say that the sign was set up over His hands....
Now I know that none of this is conclusive as signifying only a instrument of a cross like shape could be used...but it certainly gives more support the the instrument being cross like than stake shaped.
Thanks for the comments again sassyaquarius, you always ask such good questions... | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:13:43 PM |
Thanks for the comments again sassyaquarius, you always ask such good questions... And thank you for all of the information :)
I agree that it is pointless to argue the semantics.. it is only that you said the cross is a symbol of death... to me that seems far too subjective to project outward with any kind of certainty...
I have nothing to back this up of course, but I see the cross as a symbol of enlightenment... how the mundane path of man and the "upward" path to God meet.. at the heart ...
Imo Jesus fits quite nicely when looked at from that perspective :) | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:03:12 PM |
I agree that it is pointless to argue the semantics.. it is only that you said the cross is a symbol of death... to me that seems far too subjective to project outward with any kind of certainty...
I have nothing to back this up of course, but I see the cross as a symbol of enlightenment... how the mundane path of man and the "upward" path to God meet.. at the heart ...
Imo Jesus fits quite nicely when looked at from that perspective :)
we are on pretty much on the same page sassyaquarius. The cross symbolizes a way to life and light in the spiritual meaning, however I am furthering to say that in the natural meaning and earthly respect, the cross symbolizes death...and this death is mostly a way of life in this earthly realm, and it is also a sumbol of death as it was used as an instrument of death......
I ma speaking more directly in regards to what Christ was saying here regarding death..
"""John 12:24
I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.""""
A P Adams wrote some good thoughts on how Christ took up the 'cross' from the beginning of His life by being made to partake of death in more ways than just literally and physically dying on the literal and physical 'stake or cross'.
if your interested......
Christ was alone in the Garden. All of his disciples accompanied him to the garden on that dark night of his arrest; and now notice how strangely the Saviour acted, as though longing for human sympathy and reaching out for it, although at the same time he knew it was not for him. On entering the garden he leaves eight of his disciples as though conscious they could not help him; but still longing for human sympathy he takes with him Peter, James, and John, the three who came the nearest to being companions to him, and retires to a distant part of the garden; and then instead of taking these three disciples into his confidence, telling them what was on his mind and praying together, as one would suppose was his intention, he seems again to realize how vain it is to look for human help, and, simply commanding them to watch, he leaves them to pass through his agony alone. No human ear heard his agonizing, "If it be possible to let this cup pass from me"-no human eye saw his anguish, the bowed form and the bloody sweat-as he had been obliged to drink the cup of death alone during all his ministry, so now he must "wring out" the bitter dregs alone. His disciples could not even watch with him one hour, but stupidly slept while Jesus wept and prayed; and when his enemies came and arrested him and carried him off to his mockery of a trial, they "all forsook him and fled." Alone he must meet the hatred of the Scribes and Pharisees; alone he must stand before timorous, faint- hatred Pilate; alone he must bear the insults of Herod and his men of war. The spitting and scourging, the crown of thorns and purple robe, the mockery and shame, must all be borne by him alone as best he could without human help or sympathy. But on the cross Jesus touched the lowest depths of his agonizing loneliness. We have seen that during his ministry his only companion was his Father; this was the one solace of the Saviour's earth life to get alone with his Father. But on the cross even his Father deserted him, so that Jesus was more absolutely alone, for that one supreme moment than ever was before or since, or ever will be. Can you not perceive the awful significance of the Saviour's cry,-"My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?'' as though he would say, "I have been alone, excepting Thee, for these three and thirty years, and now in the hour of my direst necessity, Thou hast forsaken me." This awful experience was the bitter dregs of the cup that Jesus shrank from in the garden, crying out, "if it be possible let this cup pass from me." But it is not possible,-he may not be spared this fierce trial. He must be made "in all things like unto his brethren;" their natural condition is, expressed by such Scriptures as "far from God," "without God in the world," "God is not in all their thoughts." etc. Jesus must know this experience, that, being "tempted in all points, like as we, he might be able to succor them that are tempted;" and so on the cross there is a total separation for a time between the Father and the Son and the agonizing loneliness of Christ reaches it culmination.
O blessed Jesus! we may not be able to fathom the depths of the sufferings, but our tears may fall at the remembrance of them, our hearts may throb in sympathy, now that we can appreciate something of their significance; and with gladness we may "fill up that which is behind of thy afflictions.'' (Col. 1:24) that thus being made, in some small degree, "partakers of thy sufferings," we may by and by become "partakers of the glory that shall be revealed." (1 Pet. 4:13 and 5:1).
Is it not a sad pleasure thus to see something of the interior life of Christ; and so to creep nearer to his heart of love, and to enter more fully into the "fellowship of his sufferings"? Shall we murmur if, following in his footsteps, we sometimes feel a keen sense of isolation and loneliness, as we are made to realize the truth of Christ's saying, "Ye are not of the world, even as I am not of the world?" Should we not rather "count such an experience all joy?" (Jas. 1:2). O ye scattered children of God, his "jewels," (Mal. 3:16, 17), take these thoughts for your comfort, and you will be able to "rejoice" even in your loneliness, knowing that thereby ye are made "partakers of his sufferings, that when his glory shall be revealed ye may be glad also with exceeding joy." (1 Pet. 4:12,13).
Is it not plain also that Christ's three and thirty years on earth was a living death,-the real death he suffered, after sacrificing his pre-existent life? and "out of that death" (Heb. 5:7, N.V.*, margin), he was not delivered until "God raised him from the dead, now no more to return to corruption." (Acts 13:34). When was Jesus in the corruptible state? not while he was in the grave, for we are expressly told that he "saw no corruption" there. Acts 13:37; and yet he was in the corruptible state at some period of his earthly career, for he was "raised from the dead no more to return to corruption." He was in the corruptible condition all the while he tabernacle in the flesh; in the "bondage of corruption," like the "whole creation," for he was "made sin" and a "curse" for us; (2 Cor. 5:21, and Gal. 3:13), and this was the corruption,-the corruption of this fallen state, that he was raised from, now no more to return thereto.
In conclusion I will notice some more passage that incidently con firms the above view. Read Isa, 53:9, and notice the margin on the word "death'' that it is plural, deaths; is not that rather curious? "in his deaths"? Did Christ die more than one death? Yes! We have seen that he entered a condition of death when he laid down his pre-existent life and became incarnate; and he also died physically. Now the passage above cited would not be true if it referred only to his physical death; for he did not make his grave with the wicked in his physical death. He was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathæa who was a "good man,'' "who also himself waited for the kingdom of God," and was one of "Jesus' disciples" (Luke 23:50, 51 and Matt. 27:57), and yet "he made his grave with the wicked and with the rich in his deaths;" how clear this passage is in the light of the view presented above; when he laid down his pre-existent life and entered into the charnel house of this fallen state "he made his grave with the wicked;" and when he died physically he was laid in the tomb of the wealthy Arimathæan, and thus made his grave "with the rich;" thus the deeper we dig, the more carefully we search, the more firmly is the truth established; we need not be afraid of the most thorough investigation if we are seeking the truth; the smallest particulars as well as the more weighty propositions will equally be found to be in the most perfect accord with any individual truth, and each separate truth will strengthen every other truth.
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| People are the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:32:52 PM | Let's see if I understand what you said, consigliere31. God was life and a cross. God entered death when he was born of flesh (i.e conception in the incarnation). He carried death from birth till death. A death he couldn't die because he was God. If he really died, then he wasn't God. But He was God, so He did die. He embraced death by being born human which He can't be because He is a God. But he became human so he could die, but being God, He didn't really die. He just made it look like He did so everyone would know they had to die to live. In other words carry their own cross to death.
Religion isn't evil.
People are evil. | |
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| People are the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:35:28 PM | One can think of it as God the Son enduring and experiencing what all mortals have to go through, in order to be a perfect mediator between men and the Father.
Wouldn't God already know this since He is all knowing?
Religion isn't evil.
People are evil.
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| People are the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/1/2008 2:45:29 AM | Well some people out there who can use evil through religion to such as jone's town, ect religion like any thing else can be used to be evil .
such as the rebel flag ok it was used for the klue klux klan right also most klan member's where deep in to religion as well .but it was not the flag it self was bad it's how people used it to produce evil.
And evil it self is used in the bible as a place to burn for ever created by men's thought's same as heaven that was used to if you die your spirt would go to see saint peter at the cury gate's.
It's my opion that this is all made up i wouldn't care who like's me or not for what i have to say about my opion.
religion has been used seval time's over in differnt evil way's to tortur people to confess for one to place them on a pole and set them on fire for there sins and many other differnt way's it has been used.
Look at the history of it all then you will see for your self that's all i can say about that. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/2/2008 12:21:05 PM | In response to Jacob 101 to what he refers to as "Apostles of atheism:" such as Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao,..etc. Actually, let me point out that just because they did not adhere to organized religion does not mean that they did not adhere to some other kind of dogma. The real problem is not necessarily religion but in the belief in any kind of dogma; being based in religion or ideology of any kind. There are true believers of all stripes, and whenever anyone becomes a true-believer of any sort, they are rejecting critical thought and reason.
Atheism is not an ideology. We are all "atheists" of some sort or another. We are "atheists when it comes to other belief systems and religions not of our own. We are all atheists when it comes to belief in Zeus or Poseidon. We are all atheists when it comes to other mythological deities as well. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/2/2008 12:25:59 PM |
The real problem is not necessarily religion but in the belief in any kind of dogma; being based in religion or ideology of any kind. There are true believers of all stripes, and whenever anyone becomes a true-believer of any sort, they are rejecting critical thought and reason. Sounding a mite dogmatic with that statement, no?? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/2/2008 12:31:24 PM | | No, it really is not. I am just stating my opinion as I see it. It is true belief that causes people to do some horrific things. It was true belief that lit the fires of the inquisition and witch hunts throughout mideval Europe. It was also true belief that prompted 9 very-well educated middle-eastern men to fly airplanes into the world-trade center. Need I give anymore examples? Does that sound like dogma? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/2/2008 2:46:59 PM | Thephilosophygirl:
No, it really is not. I am just stating my opinion as I see it. It is true belief that causes people to do some horrific things. It was true belief that lit the fires of the inquisition and witch hunts throughout mideval Europe. It was also true belief that prompted 9 very-well educated middle-eastern men to fly airplanes into the world-trade center. Need I give anymore examples? Does that sound like dogma?
And it is true belief that also causes men to do great things for humanity, like the vast networks of faith-based charities, the life of St. Vincent de Paul, of St. Anthony of Padua, and a gazillion others in my mind. True belief, like anything else, can be a tool for both good and evil. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/2/2008 2:52:00 PM |
It is true belief that causes people to do some horrific things. It was true belief that lit the fires of the inquisition and witch hunts throughout mideval Europe. It was also true belief that prompted 9 very-well educated middle-eastern men to fly airplanes into the world-trade center. Need I give anymore examples? Your examples are as extreme as the actions produced by them.
whenever anyone becomes a true-believer of any sort, they are rejecting critical thought and reason. To say the above sounds dogmatic to me... since you are presenting your opinion as though it is factual.
A person can actually have beliefs (that are true for them) while also retaining their ability to think and reason. | |
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