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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/23/2008 1:14:33 PM | "Compared to the billions killed in other religious wars?"
"Billions", even cumulatively, weren't even alive during these religious wars, how could they have possible died in them?
As a side note, I think its ironic that most of the anti-religious people I've met employ the very system of morality that was first institutionalized by Judeo-Christianity.
I await with great anticipation the great Atheist purge against 'believers.' I am imagine Atheists would justify such a war with the argument that only a completely secular world will be free of conflict, as religion inherently leads to conflict... | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/23/2008 9:17:16 PM | Religion isn't EVIL....however, people are
Intolerance of any kind is evil..........IMO, people aren't evil because of the God they believe in or because of some "book" they read, or because of a temple they go to......they are EVIL for other reasons....hatred, a lack of love for themselves and for the neighbor...that is the source of the EVIL you speak of.
Some of the nicest people ive met were Christians, Likewise, some were Atheists, Hindu, etc....i've learned to accept everyone as they are instead of trying to "change" them into my own personal beliefs.
Basically, i find your post a form of "evil" to some degree...it shows your intolerance for believers, a desire to change others....if you were full of love you would CARELESS if someone believed as you or not, you would just "let them be" as they are and accept them. When you do this life becomes easier, and these energies can be used elsewhere.
One day when we ALL learn to coexist and stop throwing garbage at one another then this "EVIL" you speak of might cease to exist. Has NOTHING to do with RELIGION. If it did there wouldnt be GREAT people that were Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, etc upon etc....there are GREAT people in EVERY form imaginable. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/23/2008 9:48:41 PM | Limey you live in Iowa or something? You're stuck on the flood thing... get some skittles and taste the rainbow would ya?
Who's the christian sky fairy? Christians don't have sky fairies or spaghetti monstors or any number of the abusive little pathetic name calling that tries to qualify as contributing to the conversation.
No... why not just continue to flood the forums with inane one liners proving the inane? Maybe then your Harley will grow wings and you can join the sky fairy. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 12:30:55 AM | Who's the christian sky fairy? Christians don't have sky fairies or spaghetti monstors or any number of the abusive little pathetic name calling that tries to qualify as contributing to the conversation.
I hate to brake to ya but religion can be very funny when it come's to worshiping a god or god's depending what you follow and was tault as a child .
So then how would some exsplain this according to christain's there is a heaven above us and angels and saint peter and the curly gates ect now has any one ever seen it or proof of it's exsistence?
In the matter of speaking no one has ever come up with physical proof that a god or heaven dose exsist. But in some other's point of view it would be conciderd a fairy tale or fantasy.
I mean come on now has any one every seen or proofen with no doubt that god exsist is there been any physical proof out there ? It's only from the christain believe's and what's in a book that was written by man.
If a person want's to believe in god so be it i wouldn't care at all but in my opion to believe in a mystical being is the same as believing in the easter bunny or santa or even better the tooth fairy . | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 3:59:23 AM | Brilliant minds of history and discernment, defining phantasy, reality, where things come from, and the mind itself held the belief in god. The concept of the mind itself matters. And where it comes from and goes. Is relevant when criticising what they and we believe.
An old idea there, the brilliant minds of faith.
Something could not come from nowhere.
Jesus was a real historical character, and answered question on where we come from, justice sin, and destiny in eternal life.
To write to someone like Isaac Newton, or William Wilberforce, or Dr RJ Oppenheimer, or any great in faith minded ones that there ideas are phantasy or spaghetti monsters is below them. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:02:33 AM | it takes religion to make good people do bad things.
Quote i saw somewhere once, seems pretty true, though, i know alot of non religous douche bags too. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 6:47:24 AM | "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."
~Albert Einstein
Personally, I believe that a lot of the good people doing bad things because of their religion are doing so to force or enforce what they think "should be" rather than what is. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 5:52:11 PM | running wolf,
I think religion is to general a term to define and defend. I prefer to call those who visit orphans and widows in their affliction and keep themselves unspotted by the world religious. Aside from that I doubt either one of us fit the bill. I love Jesus and believe he delivered the words of the original being and I love Paul because for the most part I think he understood Jesus. And then we get even further away from those word and there's little old me.
So then how would some exsplain this according to christian's there is a heaven above us and angels and saint peter and the curly gates ect now has any one ever seen it or proof of it's exsistence?
Your picture of heaven is as inaccurate as the depiction you've apparently copied. The real answer is that according to scripture the complete descriptions of heavenly realities is inconclusive. Anyone who would argue with me about that is elevating one scripture to the deficit of another. Simply put... it God could be proven then those who chose to do good simply because they now believe in God would bore us all to tears. God simply says "I AM" and then asks, "Are you?"
If a person want's to believe in god so be it i wouldn't care at all but in my opion to believe in a mystical being is the same as believing in the easter bunny or santa or even better the tooth fairy .
And who taught you such logic? The God of Opinion is Praised! Forrest Gump says it's a bit of both... you know... a feather and a record in heavenly stone. Anywho... From my limited understanding and world view we enjoy the freedom even to speak as we are now due more to the philosophies and words spoken by Jesus Christ than any other religious figure. I like Socrates too don't get me wrong but he had some nasty habits...
So where are you going with such reasoning?
I mean come on now has any one every seen or proofen with no doubt that god exsist is there been any physical proof out there ? It's only from the christain believe's and what's in a book that was written by man.
OH! Wow ... there's alot of things written by man but it is endlessly fascinating to me that those with an opinion on the words that Jesus spoke should take so little interest in them before coming to a conclusion. Read the New Testament once and you'll see everything that's wrong with the world and the church... Read it twice and you'll look in the mirror and finally know why.
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 6:07:55 PM | | Some people say "money is the root of all evil", well there's plenty of money in religion - go figure! Opening the churches for the homeless would be a good way to relieve themselves of any reproach. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 6:20:57 PM | Skypoetone,
My friend... some people quote hafe a scripture in the church and then serve coolaide... we all know this. After making the point that he'd never seen a Uhaul behind a hearse Paul points out that "the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." And it is these kinds of people who hold the form but not the substance and defile many with their power and their words so that wars are faught and widows and orphans are neglected. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:04:09 PM | | Yep, I agree Stats, one should never misquote, but even the full version doesn't alter what I said. There are some very rich religions (not naming them because we all know whom they are) with elaborate churches way too excessive in my view. Some of those places could be re-developed, giving people what they need now, something concrete rather than promises for what might be later. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/25/2008 4:28:32 AM | | What a load of cobblers. Religion does not and never has done killed or commited evil. It does not start a war. Its does not rape pillage or plunder. Its does not kill, mug or burglar your house. It does not murder or abuse kids. MAN does. I know it may shock some on here but its MAN the true evil and not a belief. after all if you don't believe in something how can it be evil? MAN is the worst enemy we have. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/25/2008 5:33:09 AM | The worst enemy to mankind are those who are FOLLOW_MAN and not FELLOW_MEN
Follow-Man is an ego charged and inflated by an Ego, their is no spirit within those who are followers in lieu of fellows, equals.
Religion has nothing to do with spirit or spiritual practices, it is quite the opposite.
Spirituality is within, a vibration/celebration
Religion is the union of man and material within a ceremony, outside of oneself.
The celebration is the feeling inside, it is free, it is of and with spirit.
The ceremony is the action outside, there is a fee, you must sacrifice spirit (time, potential, riches, wealth) to be were it is held, it is not free, comes with cost.
Religion is "cere-money", not a "cele"bration (vibration).
Religion works to use what is in spirituality that is free, for material and superficial ideals (ego) as it debates and brings complication to simplicity as, in its essence, it values opinion (ego) over spirit and uses religion as a tool to create/stifle material wealth out of the spirit, that which it professes to serve and hold highest, so it does not serve mankind, it serves men, it serves ego and triumphs material above spirit in stealth, religion is about material and mans relationship with it and fools believe it is for spiritual matters. In a sense it is about debasing and devaluing spiritual through what what seem as reverse-psychology and the planting of ignorance within the soul of man and watering it with fear and other non-spiritual ideals.
Religious cere-money needs material, things, stuff, replicas of nature and objects which ego gives purpose to so as material can participate and change free, inside to costs and outside. Like of it as, religion is what ha the right to sell the t-shirts, buttons and souvenirs at the free concert. If you are at the concert and you have a flower in your eye, you do not need one on your lapel, unless you do not have one inside.
Man's relationship with it has absolutely no spiritual value as, you can not add spirit when you are giving it to get closer to material and lighten your load of spirituality for sake of opinions and debate.
When you look at the essence and the true nature of what is religion, you see it for what it is, it is nothing more then ego and material manipulating spiritual wealth to for gain of material wealth.
Religious celebrations can not be so as it takes spirit to become material to have a ceremony, religion is the celebration of material at the expense of spirit.
This is what math, art (spirit/truth) and history (ego) that is available which is not completely debased by egos, proves religion to be as well as spirit.
The history of religion is the history of the control of ego and material and the manipulation of spirit or, the misdirection which causes those of spirit to follow man rather then to be fellowmen. Simple truths are forever complicated by ego, debased/devalued through debate and opinion sharing, duality. Religion makes more of something then it is (man) and this comes from outside, from ego and is what defines mans relationship with material and spirit.
Religion is man, spirit and material whereas, spirituality is man and spirit without material which is free and always available, celebrate is not limited to space and time, it has no bounds and is not controlled by others within you.
Religion tries to capture time and mans relationship with spirit and material, creating a ceremony that is tied to the outside world, it is not random, it is organized, controlled by man, spirit (or lack of) and material.
Religion is Rich-ual while celebration is rite-ual.
One is about riches, one is about rites.
Religion is the closest man can come to spirit with material (in thought, body and or in mind), it is the cere-money, material is not needed within a celebration, the vibration is free and it can not be taxed or cheated away, sold, bought or traded for, it is only available for free. Religion is the tool that ego's use and abuse to sell and buy fiat spirituality.
Do the math, look at the "facts" and look for only the truth and you to will see that religion is not what it is touted as being as, if it was known by those who go to participate in the ceremony, that what they are paying for, they can get free by simply believing, then accepting and then rejoicing, the cere-money would not be necessary as, all that is needed to celebrate is the desire and the want and the spirit, there is no material nor ego required.
You have to choose if you are with spirit or if you are with material, you can not be off and with both,
One must choose either to celebrate for free and be with that which IT is that you proclaim to love and worship. Or, you may choose to pay to be included in a ceremony offered up through sacrifice of spirit and material, so as you can buy stuff from the vendors of plastic flowers within the garden that is a table with the food upon it, the table has been set through the spirit and the cause and effect of all that is without ego.
HO HO HO-Merry Christmas, want to buy some toys?  | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:11:19 AM | eye8one2
Religion works to use what is in spirituality that is free, for material and superficial ideals (ego) as it debates and brings complication to simplicity as, in its essence, it values opinion (ego) over spirit and uses religion as a tool to create/stifle material wealth out of the spirit, that which it professes to serve and hold highest, so it does not serve mankind, it serves men, it serves ego and triumphs material above spirit in stealth, religion is about material and mans relationship with it and fools believe it is for spiritual matters. In a sense it is about debasing and devaluing spiritual through what what seem as reverse-psychology and the planting of ignorance within the soul of man and watering it with fear and other non-spiritual ideals.
Yeah... so it's all about psyco-ology? You selling a book or something? Running for office on the some "extra sensory superior to religion cause see I could start my own if I really wanted too" platform?
"for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" wrote the man who was trying to stop the original church from organizing under folks who operated out of a sense that they should be in charge. Funny how many that come to Christ never lose their sense of entitlement to being the leader of the pack. But it happens... from my point of view the leaders in Christianity truly are those who ask how to best serve. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:27:41 AM | statueman
Remember, the music is from and of spirit, the "lie"rics are from ego and man.
Listen to the music, not the words, you will get much more truth.
Humming brings man closer to spirit, words bring man closer to man.
Music, the sound of life and living can not be caged nor can it be changed to suit the needs of those who play with it yet, words can be changed, purpose lost as well as souls that were close to truth but opted to follow-man in lieu of a being a fellow.
You found the right maestro, but remember, true words are written in your heart not on the paper that has the ego and the residual rights holder. You likely know that and truth is something we all need to share as opinon, debate, strife and the like are for those who are forever changing the "lie"rics and missing the music but dancing around, wearing t-shirts they bought at the concert that is free, you just come as you are and the leave the lies behind, truth is all that can be within.
Truly, all the worlds a stage and we are merely players.
I give all I have away, truth is free, lies cost money, you spend to much. Be friend to man and spirit, not a fiend to truth and friend of egos and those who sell the souvenirs.
What is it, do I have to give all I own to all others so you, who only shares opinion can inflate an ego, a lie?
You look for lies or invent them, you are lost and follow, you are not fellow. You would poke a dog until it barked and then declare it vicious.
I know your heart but not your soul for it is void of truth and filled with cntenmpt as, you love stuff more then life, debate, strife and the like, they all come with pretty bows.
Tell me, what do you sell others? What do you give from yourself, i that which you promote not ego's, or is what is on the t-shirts what you prefer, I prefer the flowers in the eyes, you still believe the logo on the t-shirt is better then being inside.
Go to where man can take you to truth, truth has no time for fools, I have no time for debate with egos. walking talking meat with an opinion, go back to where ignorance is wisdom, debt is wealth and war is peace.
You can not fathom a simple truth, tell me, What came first, The Chicken or Egg?
I'll you three guesses, is that enough? It will take you three or likely more to find the truth in that but it is not about the truth, it is about the debate and waste of time and spirit, that is religion, waste.
Answer my riddle, show all how much wisdom you have.
peace, light and life. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/25/2008 7:15:51 AM | I really do think some of you confuse religion and "organised" religion. Religion and spiritualty are one. Difference is some don't like the wording! Organised religion is a different kettle of fish. That does involve material ideas and greed maybe too. But the basic laws or rules are the same its just that they are often overlooked for personnal gain. But they tell me hitler was spiritual.... and made riddles too. 
Too many people trying to tell others how to live and what to believe in. We have been lead astray by those in power above us with their corrupt views and greed... And we argue amongst ourselves.... how they smile above us in ivory towers... | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/25/2008 9:03:03 AM | In The True Religion There is Not Sect.
Where IslandGuy222 wrote:
Charity, compassion, and morals are human traits, not religious.
I believe that the model you are referring to presupposes some of our impulses are human/animal therefore subject to the same flight or flight, death versus sex instinc as contrasted against the more "human" qualities typically assigned by "the faithful" to our being created in the image of the higher life form commonly referred to as god.
[quot]Before you slam into me for not believing in God - ask yourself the question of why you don't believe in Thor, or Poseidon or Santa Claus (assuming that you don't) ...
Nobody should rightfully "slam" you for not believing in god. I am a devout Catholic and can fully appreciate that your views differ from mine. It would be a little sub-human for me to start throwing rocks at you for your belief, when I expect to enjoy the same right to my belief in a god and a church which serves this god.
There is no rational reason to believe in belief... there are social and cultural reasons - but in the end they simply amount to brainwashing as a child.
The Chaos Principle almost begs the ccndisderation of the fact that it is as rational to believe in a god as not to believe in a god or to believe that we exist at all.
Take, as an example Existentialism. Existentialism is a philosophical movement which posits that individuals create the meaning and essence of their lives. It is up to humans to create an ethos of personal responsibility for themselves, outside of any branded belief system. In existentialist views, personal articulation of being is the only way to rise above humanity's absurd condition of much suffering and inevitable death.
Some existentialists, like Kierkegaard, conceive the fundamental existentialist question as humanity’s relationship to God. Just as atheistic existentialists can freely choose not to believe in God, theistic existentialists can freely choose to believe in God and, despite doubt, have faith that God exists. Belief in God is a personal choice made on the basis of a passion, faith, observation, or experience.
If you indoctrinate your children into any faith, you are in a sense brainwashing them to believe in your invisible god creature.
This oversimplifies the matter greatly inasmuch as teaching your child anything of which you are not 100% certain of through direct first hand knowlege is rather brainwashing, or programming your child to believe in something which some will say exists and some may say does not.
Like the gun going off in the unwitting perpetrator's hand... it is in the intent of the parent. If ther parent, finding true solace of mind and soothing of soul in a religious belief and doctrine, truly believes that they have found The Way... why should they be any less prone to share this percieved antedote to lifes ills as they would be to share any other medicinal element?
Furthermore, there is a very strong argument that the culturual unification and strengthening of famillial ties which a religion or religious quality provides comforts an infant, toddler or child - just like understanding why dad always stands up at the head of the table and carves the family meal every (insert religious holiday here) can be exceptionally strengthening to a child's mind.
And let's face it - strong, happy, well adjusted kids become a strong happy, weel adjusted national identity.
As for you question about believing in Thor, Loki, Bigfoot, whatever... I say, whatever you worship, be there, on time, Sunday morning.
And if you believe in nothing at all - then take pleasure in knowing you are free to believe that too in this nation which has been protected and fortified by plenty of people whose belief in god enabled them to sacrifice of themselves for the love of others - and I am sure there were atheists along side them too. | |
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| Religion is NOT the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/25/2008 9:46:38 AM | | One glaring problem in this thread -- in the subject and in much of the discussion -- is that a quality (evil) properly characterised by people first and sometimes by systems organized by those people is being applied generally and globally to the actionof holding a a set of beliefs regardless of what those beliefs are and regardless of the actual behaviors or quality of those who express them. "Religion" cannot be "Evil", any more than "Politics" or "Atheism" or "Culture" or "Dancing" or "Movies" can be "Evil". People can be "evil". Groups of people organized for a common evil purpose can be evil, but even then the "evil" quality resides in the actions of the people. "Communism" is not "evil" per se (in fact, it is quite humanitarian and fair in its ideals and has much more to offer certain groups than Capitalism) but when applied as it historically was by the USSR and China, the Kmer Rouge, etc. it gives rise to evil deeds by its promoters and believers. Is it "Communism" that is flawed? Or the groups of people that promote and apply it? Is it intrinsically "evil". Is "Religion" intrinsically "evil". If you believe that, where's your evidence? And spare us all the trotting out of inflated and exaggerated and distorted history lessons learnt at the feet of equally ignorant teachers back in high school or college, and theoretical Straw Men. Provide evidence. Show a clear line from "religon" to "doing evil" or "being evil", one that is constant, consistent, and demonstrates an intrinsic quality inreligion that can be accurately described as "evil". Thank you. | |
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| see no evil..
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:34:09 AM |
true words are written in your heart not on the paper I feel the truth of that, nice :)
For me the entire premise of this thread is ridiculous and I said so from the start... for one thing, there is no universal definition for religion.. nor is there a concensus on evil... therefore this lengthy discussion has merely highlighted differing individual beliefs, yet people speak as though their opinion is law... hilarious.
Personally I see no evil..... only illusions in need of healing.. there is only one way to do that... and it doesn't involve branding something or someone evil and unable to rehabilitate ;) | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/26/2008 2:51:03 AM | | Simply put, all religions have failed. This is not my opinion, it is a fact. In 2000yrs, 5000 wars have been fought. Christianity has made it proper to be poor. The catholic church has been against birth control, leaving populations unable to supply enough food to feed the huge growth of people. All religions have fought against other religions, if it is against their code or not, it has still occurred. All religions make divisions of people, when you have divisions, you have war, brutality, violence, him verses me. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/26/2008 5:27:18 AM |
Opening the churches for the homeless would be a good way to relieve themselves of any reproach.
And some of them do!  for them! | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:05:48 AM | You could also say guns are the true evil in this world,atoms,money, etc.
The object can't be good or evil of itself, but what we impute on it. What is behind religion,guns,science,money? Us.
So we choose to create or destroy with these objects. What a lot of power. Almost... god-like. hmm | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:18:38 AM |
Religion does not and never has done killed or committed evil.
The crusades come to mind, but then again guns don't kill people.
People who use guns kill people.
Guns are the weapon.
Religion is the reason. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:20:30 AM |
The crusades come to mind, but then again guns don't kill people.
People who use guns kill people.
Guns are the weapon.
Religion is the reason.
Perhaps Religion is the excuse? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:03:45 AM | I don't see how anything can be called "good" when it encourages people to shut off their critical thinking process and just "believe". "Lean not unto thine own understanding" is what the scriptures say and personally,I think that's dangerous.
I also don't see how anything can be called "good" when it champions the symptoms of mental illness and calls hallucinations and delusions "visions from God","the voice of God", and other such nonsense.This is a proven fact.There are mental disorders such as the Ouija board syndrome,where just like a person believes that a spirit is moving the board penchant,the religious can believe that a supernatural being communicates with them and every random incident is viewed as a "sign".Those deluded by religion believe that their thoughts are not their own but put there by either God or Satan depending upon what the thought is.They also believe that there will be a Second Coming and most Christians I know believe that it will be soon,like within the next 10 to 50 years.With this type of thought process,then why should anyone plan for a long range future?
Anything that promotes this type of thinking is evil in my opinion.Children have died because their parents prayed instead of seeking medical help.Wars are fought over these mythical beings and countless crimes have been committed because a mentally ill person heard a voice and was convinced that it was the voice of God.
Yes,I know atrocities were committed under atheistic/communist regimes.But there was a lot more to communism than atheism.It was an entire process that involved politics,economics and social structure.Everything was to be replaced by the state so that the class struggle would cease and there would be a dictatorship of the Proletariat.Anti-religion was just a part of the whole package that was communism, so I don't think it's accurate or really fair to lump the atrocities of communism in with that of a theocratic dictatorship.In actuality,many communist regimes use religion as part of their subversion tactics.In Central America,for example Roman Catholicism is blended with Marxism because the influence of the RC church on these countries was too strong to attempt to erase it from the hearts and minds of the populace. | |
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