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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:52:21 PM | I don't know if I could agree on that Taurus516, no distrespect intended. But that one pharse:
-- "Lean not unto thine own understanding" is what the scriptures say and personally,I think that's dangerous.---
I don't thing I see anything dangerous in that at all, as a matter of fact, in a round about way, enlightening. Such as what its saying is "Do not depend on your own Understanding" which anyone can see means to get another's view, to create understanding.
--There are mental disorders such as the Ouija board syndrome,where just like a person believes that a spirit is moving the board penchant,the religious can believe that a supernatural being communicates with them and every random incident is viewed as a "sign".--
Well..my cousin who lived in the Falls one time asked me to do the Ouija thing, I said "what are you nuts" he then put it on the table in the other room and looked at me and said , Your father always said "blah blah blah" and I looked at him and asked how he knew that, he looked at me and said "He also said Blah (personal stuff)". After that I got all blubbery and misty. I asked him how he knew. He said he just picks it up. He said more and it blew me away. I didn't do the board thing, so, maybe you could explain that to me. And I don't see that as a sign.
Lets face it, Evil is ignorance, no matter what you put as evil. This gives more credence to "Lean not unto thine own understanding". What many of us may not really understand is that, a religious person has had a spiritual awakening on a level that he can understand. With this, he/she needs a togetherness. All religions are carry overs from ancient Shaman ism. The Tribe and this is what religion is to me. The Tribe. While there are those who do not have these experiences, it means nothing to them. Many of the Atheist see this as G-d as a fairy being in a cloud. Thats an allegory for the children, and if you base your philosophy on that, then I think you need to investigate more. G-d has never been described in that manner except by the Atheist. Those who see, have more idealistic concepts. And each person is on there own level. What ever that may be. So for those who see hidden meaning in the book, then "If you think a sin then you have committed that sin" A thought is an action. Does that not mean you create your own reality. And the Idea of a Omnipotent, omnipresent G-d only reflects the idea that we have nothing that we know to compare with a G-d,,,,What ever a G-d is. Wo when you figure out a G-d let us know.
You get an epiphany, an awakening, I can't explain it, but you do, at some point it will happen. What you do with it is your business. You get an understanding that this whole reality is a pinprick into something that is quite extreme and beyound. In evolution there is a reason for every s pieces, they a have a function. With Mankind we have a mind, what is our destiny or function. We must have a reason, as all nature has its reasons. Or a Function, or we are not scientific or spiritual. What other categories are there, consumers!!!! Its not just simply being smarter, or more philosophical. Its being more in touch with this reality that we create for ourselves because we cannot envsion what is coming next. Its easy to see that in this world that its dedication and disipline that creates the person you want to be. But is that in a supermarket reality or a reality based on being a human being. We do not live forever in the body, we are only passing thou. What legacy do you leave behind you. That no one will remember. Does it matter in the now.......Honor and integrity is the only wealth you have......its a gift you give to yourself.....Live it, and this world would be a better place.........without lawyers.
Religion is limited ignorance. You can move on from there. Religion is not evil, ignorance and self centredness is evil. For those who are that way, normal for you. But in this world we do not deal with normal.  | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:12:27 PM | | Most organized religions have very little to do with God, and much to do with control and politics. A wise yogi once said "Religions are like the pearls on a necklace, each with a tiny thread of truth running through the center". | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 5:15:05 PM | | "Pass me that spanner", as Jill Richardsons' mechanic husband out of ancient TV soap, Crossroads once said. I think the quote has a certain earthy, existentialist charm. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 5:28:30 PM | | I find it interesting how religon is used as an excuse to cause more evil then anything else people bring up the crusades thats a joke. The crusades were started because the nations in europe saw the advantage of taking over major trade routes in the muslim held lands so they created a holy war in order to recruit followers. They used religon as an excuse for something they were already going to do. No where in the bible did it say to kill muslims. Stop blaming relgion for the evil men do, if there was no religon they would use something else as an excuse. Like say Socialism, WMDs, or hey you have better land then me. Every religous war was started due to purely economic reasons I challenge anyone to tell me one alleged religous war that wasnt started for a socio-economic reason and the word religon was used as an excuse just started. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 5:47:02 PM |
No where in the bible did it say to kill muslims. Muslims were NOT the only people to die during the crusades in case that needed to be mentioned.
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.2 Chronicles 15:12-13
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be killed.Exodus 22:19
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.Leviticus 20:27
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.Deuteronomy 17:12
You should not let a sorceress live.Exodus 22:17
You were saying.. ??
Every religous war was started due to purely economic reasons I challenge anyone to tell me one alleged religous war that wasnt started for a socio-economic reason and the word religon was used as an excuse just started. Why the separation? How about the greed of those in religious power??
Not ONCE during this thread have I said that religion is evil.. but I find it absolutely astounding that someone could actually defend the crusades and other heinous things done in the name of religion... and worse.. God.. unbelievable. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:44:59 PM | Sassyaquarius
I used the crusades as an example, and I didnt say only muslims were killed. what I am saying is that the IDEAL of the religon is not to kill. you qoute passages from the old testement I believe the new testiment which is what those who call themselves christians follow as far as i know says to turn the other cheek. Those who call themselves christians should be following the new testiment as the old testitement talks about the time before christ hence the name christian. Those in power who claim to be religious do not follow the true teachings of that book. It is only mans perversion of that religon for thier own ends that makes a mockery of what its Ideals are. Any war started in the name of religon was started on purely economic reasons they used religon as an excuse, it is that kind of perversion that gives organized religon such a bad rap.
Please state anywhere that I defended the crusades? I pointed out the true reasons behind it. While you have not said religon is evil who ever posted the thread has the title of "Religon is the true evil in the world". So obviously the comment is not directed toward you. I didnt even mention your name before now so why are you so defensive?
The fact of the matter is man will use ANY excuse to justify the evil that they themselves do. Religon is just one of his tools. Its not right its disgusting. Whats also disgusting is branding an entire faith without knowing the ideals of that faith. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:46:48 PM |
what I am saying is that the IDEAL of the religon is not to kill. This thread is not about YOUR religion, it is about religion in general ;)
If what you say were truly the case, then there would be no killings in the name of God and religion, correct.. ? Was that not your original premise? That religion cannot be blamed for what PEOPLE do? Well if the IDEALS of the religion lead to killing.. then who pray tell is to blame.. ???
you qoute passages from the old testement I believe the new testiment which is what those who call themselves christians follow as far as i know says to turn the other cheek. In your previous statement you did NOT specify the New Testament.. now the story changes 
Is it up to you to determine for ALL those of your faith which portions of the bible they should consider sacrosanct?? Wow.
Please state anywhere that I defended the crusades? I am not stating that you said it was right, who would? I am saying that you were attempting to minimize the role of religion in the heinous killings.. which to me is so utterly ridiculous I cannot even believe you think you have a point. Regardless of whether it was an excuse, RELIGION was used as a motivation for killing in the name of God.. how that that be minimized or denied??
I didnt even mention your name before now so why are you so defensive? Passionate would be a better word.. trust me, I have NOTHING to defend on this topic.
Whats also disgusting is branding an entire faith without knowing the ideals of that faith. Sounding a tad defensive here.. surely you are not referring to me.. because that would be a ludicrous assumption on your part I can assure you. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:43:48 PM | First its not my religon i mearly detest the thought opf branding a religon or even holding it responsible when others use it for their own ends. This includes ALL religions. My profile states christian other because there is no selection for ritual magik or Kabbala and i feel that is the closest selection that makes sense to me ( you would have to talk to me to understand and that is a lengthly conversation lol).
You asked who is to blame for the killing simple the men who decided on the killing in the first place. They are the ones who twisted the ideal. If someone says the only way to keep peace is to destroy another country do we do away with the ideal of peace? or blame the ideal of peace? no we blame the idiot who ordered the killing.
And actually in my first posting i did specify new testiment when you use the word christian it is in reference to christ hence new testiment. The old testiment has no mention of christ because its taken from the torah the jewish scripture and they are still searching for the messiah. When a person says they are a christian it is due to a faith in christ.
In regards to the crusades i have a very valid point the tools used by men of power to keep power to sway the masses at that time was fear and religon. They twisted the ideals and the faith of millions to further thier own ends which had nothing to do with religon they were land hungry wealth hungry and they used the tools at thier disposal. Am I trying to minimize the tool that was used? No. Am i trying to point out the true motivations behind the crusades? Yes. When the crusades were over the knights Templar were very wealthy and had a vast array of lands. The french king conspired with the pope to have them branded as heretics excommunicated, disbanded, leaders burnt at the stake, and have all thier wealth and land siezed. this wasnt because they were actually heretics (though that is subject to some debate they werent much different then other sects out just the most prominent) it was because they had too much wealth, land, and political power.
Your sadly either misunderstanding what is written or so passionate about the subject your not takeing a moment to try and understand what i am attempting (rather poorly apparently) to say when I make a statement about ideals. Let me use for example Socialism the Ideal of socialism and its brother communism is a utopian ideal. How ever the sad truth is that when put into practice it is oppressive and non-functioning. The reason? PEOPLE. The ideal of the concept of socialism is wonderful the same as the ideal of a democratic republic however when people are involved they twist it to thier own ends. The same with those that would use religon to further thier own ends. ANY religon
Again iam not putting you down in any way nor was I saying that you were disgusting just the ops assumption that ALL religon was evil. All Religon has a valuble part to play in society. Even the religon of atheism, sadly yes I lump them in as a religon as well they are as zealous a believer in nothing as any christian, muslim, wiccan, and etc. They are equally as sure of thier superiority over each other. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/28/2008 6:58:53 AM | How many Muslims have killed infidels in the US and Canada. You know thru stoning or cutting off heads.....None....yet in the Middle East its participation in this is still going on. So, its not the religion that is evil but the Clerics and Leaders of the organizations of Religion, uses there ability and POWER to dictate there philosophies, and not necessarily that of the Religon but of the power they gain from religion.
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.2 Chronicles 15:12-13
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be killed.Exodus 22:19
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.Leviticus 20:27
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.Deuteronomy 17:12
You should not let a sorceress live.Exodus 22:17
Not one of these verses are based on the 10 commandments, they are based on Political power using Religion as there tool. Its that simple. So to understand this, you got to understand who wrote it, people in power.
Saying Religion is the Evil of the world is like saying that Money is the root of all evil, when its the love of money and power that is the root of all evil. All wars are based on power and wealth to the few and propaganda to the masses, using religion. Those verses are a fine example of that. How many US or Canadian presidents or Prime Ministers were atheist or how many CLAIMED to be religious. Unless they get the religious vote they will not be voted in. They use the Idea of religion for power. Large religious organizations are just Corporations with tax free money. I may work for a corporation but I myself am not part of the corporation. I might sign an agreement to work for that corporation and become an agent of that corporation,a contract or covenant, but in reality I am using that corporation for the bucks they give me to survive. They, the corporation have the power. I can quit it. Then they have no power over me.
Organized religion is used by the powers to be for control of the masses and economies. But that does not include the people who have had profound spiritual epiphanies, an awakening. Those who are seeking a spiritual lifestyle. They just get caught up in the Organization believing that they are part of the spiritual Tribe. Religious organizations do not speak for the whole congregation, just there priorities for power. Religious organizations control the sheep, those who need someone to tell them what to Believe.
http://www.halexandria.org/dward858.htm........an interesting article on how water downed the religious idealism is. And to generalize that religion is the root of evil in this world is nonsense. As you read this you will understand that not one religious belief could sway all the others into following them say to war. Its too fractional. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/28/2008 7:19:10 AM | I hate sermon-like posts…
Simply put, anything that can be used for good can also be used for bad - you can use drugs to relieve pain and cause pain - the drug is not evil if used as medically prescribed - first you have to understand what its purpose is, then administer it in the right dosage - respectfully to only those to whom it's required... sound familiar? It should. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/28/2008 12:25:34 PM |
i mearly detest the thought opf branding a religon or even holding it responsible when others use it for their own ends. Yet it happened.. people used religion, verses from the bible and promises in the afterlife to motivate people to kill in the name of God.. once again, how can that be denied?
I am NOT saying that I think religion is evil, but religion has immense power over the masses which can and certainly has been used for "evil" (don't like the word, to me evil does not exist, but I digress..)... to say that it is ONLY the people in power is just ridiculous imo.. how can those people in power be separated from the power they are using??
It's not the gun that killed someone, it is the person who pulled the trigger, well no guff.. but without the gun there would be no bullet hole. Hence the need for gun laws and standards which keep people safe ;)
They are the ones who twisted the ideal. The words used to control those people are written in the bible... according to them, the WORD OF GOD... old testament, yes.. regardless... they are considered sacrosanct by many..
And actually in my first posting i did specify new testiment when you use the word christian it is in reference to christ hence new testiment. NO.. you did not. You stated "the bible" in no way did you specify which part.
They twisted the ideals and the faith of millions to further thier own ends which had nothing to do with religon.. Do you hear what you are saying? They used religion, but it really had nothing to do with religion.. hello?!
He used the gun, but it really had nothing to do with guns 
Your sadly either misunderstanding what is written or so passionate about the subject your not takeing a moment to try and understand what i am attempting (rather poorly apparently) to say when I make a statement about ideals. I comprehend full well what an ideal is thank you. When a source such as the bible is used to motivate those to kill in the name of God because the book they hold as having been actually written by God instructs them to.. I'm sorry, who has twisted this? God.. ? Why are the old and new testament still together and used by many as one book.. ?? The Holy book, the word of God.. Please.
Even the religon of atheism, sadly yes I lump them in as a religon as well they are as zealous a believer in nothing as any christian, muslim, wiccan, and etc. They are equally as sure of thier superiority over each other. Here you have lumped together an ENTIRE group of people based on their beliefs... without considering the FACT that not all atheists are the same.. yet earlier you stated that you think doing just that is disgusting.. what hypocricy | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/28/2008 4:04:38 PM | sassyaquarius
It's not the gun that killed someone, it is the person who pulled the trigger, well no guff.. but without the gun there would be no bullet hole. Hence the need for gun laws and standards which keep people safe ;) Wow, you worded that beautifully.
twilight2020
Even the religon of atheism, sadly yes I lump them in as a religon as well they are as zealous a believer in nothing as any christian, muslim, wiccan, and etc. They are equally as sure of thier superiority over each other. Generalizations don't make you look like the sharpest tool in the shed.
Atheism is a religion in the same way that not playing basketball is a sport.
As an atheist, I believe that a god or gods may exist. Do I fit in your zealous atheist stereotype? How about the hundreds of millions of buddhists in the world that don't believe in a creator - are they also zealous in their belief in nothing? How about christian atheists?
Sure of our superiority? Are you for real? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/28/2008 4:28:51 PM | | I totally agree with and commend sassyaquarius' remarks on the gun issue. Not as I live in a country where it is a particularly big problem, but after reading some of the comments on the gun control thread in the current affairs forum, I'm fascinated by how many Americans seem to have it virtually written into their DNA that they need these things, when in reality the opposite is true. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/28/2008 5:15:33 PM | sassyaquarius
Again when i said CHRISTIANS that means new testiment. Jesus isnt in the old testiment and in order to be a christian you have to have faith in christ hence christian. I dont know how many more times I can say it before you get it.
Again I stand by my statement the underlying cause and only reason the crusades were STARTED or any ALLEGED religous war was for purely economical reasons. does that justify the war NO. But to brand any religon evil as the OP did is disgusting.
What is so hard to understand about the possibility that those in power lied to start a war? Can anyone say WMDs in Iraq?
Show me a religon and I will show you certain members of each sect who are overzealous. If your saying that not all sects have there bad apples then they beat the law of averages.
and in regards to the gun comment your right if there was no gun there would be no bullet hole. But there would be a knife wound, blunt trauma wound, poison, you name it man was killing man just fine without guns and will continue to do so if guns were to just vanish. Check out the stabbing attacks that go on routinely in japan. Or the aforementioned crusades there werent any firearms there yet plenty of people dying. The point is that if men in power cant use one tool be it guns or religon he will find and use another. So your anology holds no water whatsoever. Again the tool is not inherently evil as the OP stated, just those who use it for thier own ends.
I said lumping all religon together and branding them EVIL was disgusting. If your going to take a word take the whole sentence.
I am afraid that having a logical discussion with you is pointless as you only pick certain words without reading or comprehending the whole sentence. Or flat out choosing to ignore what was said to create your own meaning to suit you. What ever you win lol I am done with you, i wish you the best. YHVH
And to ROCKONDON
Atheism is defined by websters dictionary as "one who believes that there is no deity" so if you believe in a god or diety you can't, by that very diffenition, be a atheist sorry.
If you believe in a diety just not which one thats a form of agnostic if I remember correctly I dont know look it up.
Peace out people we will have to just agree to disagree. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/28/2008 8:03:16 PM |
Atheism is defined by websters dictionary as "one who believes that there is no deity" so if you believe in a god or diety you can't, by that very diffenition, be a atheist sorry. Appreciate the apology but its not necessary. I've been around these kind of discussions for a while now and am fairly well acquainted with atheism and agnosticism. Your webster's definition is a good definition of 'strong atheism,' whereas I am a weak atheist - very similar to an agnostic.
If you believe in a diety just not which one thats a form of agnostic if I remember correctly I dont know look it up. That would be a theist, or perhaps a deist depending on other beliefs they had. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:03:17 PM | | Not one of these verses are based on the 10 commandments, they are based on Political power using Religion as there tool. Its that simple. So to understand this, you got to understand who wrote it, people in power. Isn't the bible the infallible word of god? | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 7/1/2008 7:02:40 AM |
How about the greed of those in religious power?? Excellent point!   We see this today with churches preaching a gospel of profit. They preach the "power" of tithing and giving and say that if you give and sacrifice to God, he will bless you doubly. They like to cite themselves as an example, showing off their expensive clothes, cars and multi million dollar sanctuaries complete with TV production facilities and recording studios. They don't like to talk about their tax free status, it's a sore subject with them and if anyone tries to blow the whistle, then these same preachers will start holding huge prayer meetings,revivals and Christian music concerts with sermons thrown in about the "Godless heathens who want to shut down the Lord's work." Then the deluded open their wallets and will do without paying a utility bill or even medication or food because they have been told that God will bless them. Usually "God's blessings " come when a generous relative or friend bails them out. Having been that generous friend, I know this very well. I've been hired by these types to videotape and photograph their stuff and it's been my experience that they pay lousy and slowly. Some blessing.  | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 7/3/2008 11:46:18 PM | Isn't the bible the infallible word of god?
Well it was written by man for number one wich was the Old Testament translated from the Masoretic Hebrew texts but from the 8th-10th century AD.
But it is not the original Hebrew texts. By the time bibles came around (in the 15th century), the original Hebrew had been lost, both the manuscripts and the language. There is not a man alive today who knows how to pronounce or read the original Hebrew language.
Around the 8th-10th century AD, the Masorites took the liberty within themselves to add vowel signs to the original Hebrew Alphabet. The original Hebrew alphabet had only 22 letters and had no vowels. This 10th century manuscript is what all bibles base their Old Testament translations on.
So us athiest are not so dumb it was written by man not from God him self.
But as i said there has been know physical evidence that god exsist only used though transcripts written long ago by man so there for if there was a God there would of been physical evidence proofing it.
So how do we realy know the bible is true if the original Hebrew had been lost so if it's been lost how do we know for sure what's true and whats false?
And the bible came around in the 15th century any clues?
So iam guessing that what religion is looking at is from 8th-10th century AD.
So there's a lot we dont know and how do we know that God was also created by man such as the greeks ,and other cultures who worshiped differnt gods befor christ and after christ if christ ever exsisted .
So is the word of god true i dont think so there has been no logical or physical evidence proofing it.
But thats what i believe in . | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:35:07 AM | Religion maybe man made inspired by God, Yes People in the name of Religion have caused war, but, not belief in God has nothing to do with it becouse humans are good at twisting anything good 4 Evil thats what some religious Politicans have done by the way George Bush is not a Christian (is says troops to fight) why dont he go fight to like King David ( but, that war is just about Oil control>
If you look at the New Testament Jesus was against killing ours but loving our enemies so Religion is not the real evil people brainwashing others 4 their own good Greed & money.
Just like Porn Peddlers many Marriages are failing & are challenged becouse of Pornography. Greed Power & lust of money as for Existence of God Nothing comes out of nothing Athetists know this thats why we have a big bang Theory.
Romans 2:15 " Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. - The existence of God is written in are Conscience
Jesus also said mathew 23: " Seek and you shall find" is God really if we really seek God we will find Our Created also God has set Eternity in our hearts thats why we like to learn new Experiences | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 7/4/2008 2:14:00 PM | But then again man has also killed for there god Rev. Jim Jones,Rev. Paul Hil to name a few .
To kill for there god to follow what it states in the teaching's of the word of god such as Paul Hill had done against abortion to kill also to save a life now if thats how religion is im greatful im not one of them.
But also in the old testamen it said from the word of God him self
You must kill him,your hand must strike the rist blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following, you must stone him to death,since he has tried to divert you from yahwe your god .
Now here's a god who is told to be all loving and caring. but also a evil god as well.
As for moses, according to one of his scripture moses said,
But all the women and children that have not known a man by lying with him,
Keep alive for your self's.
In the book of judges,
Behold here is my daulter a maiden,and his concubine,them i will bring outnow,and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you,but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
As we know the old testament is deeply unplessent but if this was written then this is nothing but evil.
This is all from the old testament of religion.
Pretty sick i can tell you that. | |
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