cj4290
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 26 | |
| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/21/2008 9:09:26 AM | In northern Alberta and B.C. the indians are by far the most discriminated against race. Blacks, asians and east indians fare much better. As long as our government has policies where preferential treatment is deemed neccasary, they are in effect keeping a boot firmly placed on the red man's neck. When tax dollars are given indiscriminately to a people for wars that happened two hundred years ago, there will be plenty of people who are going to feel resentment. People have been fighting territory wars since the begining of time; it is unreasonable to expect recompense for wrongs made against your ancestors. Not to mention impossible.
Many of the indians in this region are living in poverty. I also know several working people who make 100K a year who are only one or two paycheques away from poverty themselves. It seems that no matter how much money you give some people, they will spend it unwisely.
I can sympathize with the indians; if I was raised in an enviroment where many of my family and neighbors were alcoholics waiting for their government cheque, quite possibly I would be doing the same. Most white people who are honest with themselves would agree. It is worth saying that there are plenty of indians who are productive members of our communities who most people get along with very well, but they still face disrimination from strangers.
It is apparent to me that our government's attempts at a solution aren't working. You can give people a college education, but you can't force them to work afterwards. Parents around the world have felt this. Giving handouts just ensures that that they will wait for another handout. It is time for tough love, it is time to wean the indian people off the government tit. When all people are treated equally hopefully some of the racial tensions in this world will be eased. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/21/2008 10:45:31 AM | As I said before, I live on a rez. I am also a traditional tanner and the only one I know of on this rez that makes my living totally by braintanning deerskins. All of my customers are elderly NA's and a few Native American Church folks who use the skins for water drums for their cerimonies. There are ZERO younger NA people doing this kind of work and there are almost no younger people using the skins for traditional craftwork. I have to ask myself why and I also ask the elders why this is. THEY say that the younger people don't want to do the work.
It is true that the boot on the neck of the NA's is in the form of a check IMO and in my experience. They have also been just as programmed as anybody else to think that they need all the stuff of "modern" culture and have been made to feel ashamed at being NA, which came from many of their parents who were made to feel ashamed to speak their languages and were in fact molested and beaten as children in the government schools. So we have damaged people comeing back to their communities and damaging others. It's a cycle that only started to be broken by AIM and a few other NA organizations which started in the 70's. Its a long row to hoe and unfortunatly even some of these organizations which were meant to empower NA's have kept the idea up that they should be compensated in some way.
Yes, their culture was destroyed, for the most part, but as I pointed out before at which point to we look at to see who did what to whom. I don't see the Sioux asking the bands that forced them onto the plains for money.
Can you imagine the remnants of the Aztecs wanting compenation from Spain? | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/21/2008 10:53:46 AM |
When all people are treated equally hopefully some of the racial tensions in this world will be eased.
Governments will always insure that there is a certain amount of racial tensions.
Divided peoples are easier to control by pitting one against the other. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/21/2008 4:04:07 PM | --But so was my Great Grandfather. He was told by a rep of the Canadian government that Canada was basically Hawaii but with better soil.---
My grandfather did the same thing in 1902, he built a sod hut the first yrs, had a few kids in it before he could build a house of wood.
--to be greeted by a -40 winter.--
On a good day.
-- I am\was a 4th generation farmer but have no mineral rights to land I busted my azz to pay for and yet someone who just ... is?--
If your in BC you can thank the Social Credit for that, and if you live on the praries you can thank the conservative governments for that, so that international companies can extract your resources up to 2 miles under your ft. Theres more wealth under your ft than on the top of the land. And its not yours.
The point being is this, you cannot keep what you can't defend with money or power and don't let the law think it will save you. Bow and arrows didn't work and the law pisses on all who cannot afford the law.
Grandpa built his farm up from sod to a successful farm with 140 arces mostly under plow by horse and plow with him on the back and his kids crushing lumps of dirt with there feet right behind there Dad. He did well until 1930s when the banks refuse to loan money to the farmers of the area, in order to by seeds to plant wheat. Most farmers save there seeds but by 1930s there was a drought and many could not save enough seeds, they had to sell the whole crop for income to survive. Well, when the banks refused, they also pressured him for other loans for equipment and without a decent crop there was no way he could keep it up. So he had to leave what he built, the Bank took over the farm as they did to so many in the Dirty Thirties and sold them to large corporate interest groups. Small people get used, big people cash in. That is the way of the world. So I think the natives are actually doing the right thing. I live outside of Caledonia and the occupation of a land site is still there and the FEDS do F--k All.
Now understand this, before 1930s there was tons of money, during the thirties there was no money at all, yet in 1939 it was amazing how much money they found to fight a war. We get USED. And thats that. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/22/2008 9:50:51 AM |
Governments will always insure that there is a certain amount of racial tensions.
I actually see how the US government keeps racial tension going. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/22/2008 10:30:47 AM |
Can you imagine the remnants of the Aztecs wanting compenation from Spain? Crash, how about the Olmecs shaking down the Aztecs? Or ancient Meso-Americans suing all of them? I like this game; it's really stupid.
BTW, Crash...is it possible for a psycho-whitie-whatnot like me to retire on a rez? I think I'd like the company of like-minded natives. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/22/2008 10:39:08 AM |
Crash, how about the Olmecs shaking down the Aztecs? Or ancient Meso-Americans suing all of them? I like this game; it's really stupid.
Actually, the Olmecs were extinct as a distinct culture by the time the Aztecs came to power.
And all of Meso-Americans can't sue any of them...as they have become "them."
If the people had been treated fairly and the land had been shared, then we wouldn't even be having discussion.
It wasn't (and isn't) and we are.... | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/22/2008 11:06:10 AM | ^^^^^ Yeah, I know this...it was, as all things Schadenfreudian...ludicrous.
The question still remains: In lieu of living with the barbarians who stole the land from the most recent landowners, can a retiree from said environment live on a reservation? What would it take? | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/22/2008 12:37:14 PM | | Sure you can and it doesn't take anything special. Just be careful about which rez you pick as most in the US are very depressed places where there are people who seem to be really stuck in some pretty aweful patterns. This is changing with all the casino's being built though. Now its folks stuck in pretty aweful patterns with more money. There is land for sale all over this rez and it doesn't matter who buys it. Some land is for tribe only. I have had really good relations with the tribe. They are the easiest government I have ever worked with. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/24/2008 9:30:53 AM | This all completely needless and pointless.
As has been pointed out many times: Virtually EVERY country throughout history has been formed by someone taking someone else's land.
Get over it.  | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/24/2008 11:23:34 AM | Sounds like jeremia is a victim of all the "reform" propaganda from the 90s
"status people " waiting for handouts , "NA's" (what the hell are NA's) in B.C. have 117% of B.C. claimed as theirs.
The native people of B.C. signed no treaties with the whites. The whites just moved in and took over the land shoving the native people aside. So, in law, they still owned the land. when they reclaimed their land the whites had to settle. some bands, in the area jeremia is complaining about, used the settlements as seed money and formed oil-feild service companies and drilling companies. some are prospering, much to the chagrin of the "reform" types. They don't get handouts, they compete in the rough and tumble of the oilfeilds. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/25/2008 9:24:41 AM | | NA's are what I'm calling what most folks would call Indians, and only for the sake of this discussion do I use that term. People are all just people. I consider myself a native american as I was born here. As far as aboriginal peoples go, which is another term I sometimes use, I'm in the "not sure that they were actually here first" camp. Archeology is an ongoing work.... | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:46:54 PM |
As far as aboriginal peoples go, which is another term I sometimes use, I'm in the "not sure that they were actually here first" camp. Archeology is an ongoing work....
Ummm..no serious archaeologist would debate that aboriginal peoples of the New World were the first people here.
The evidence from the Bering Land Bridge on down the Pacific coast and across the country is too great.
And since all of the people in the US and Canada were of the same or racial stock at the time when the Europeans arrived here (either the Vikings or others) it's unlikely that any outside groups had any significant influence here prior to their arrival.
That's culturally or genetically.
Now, if you know of any peer-reviewed material that's found another group that settled the "New World" prior to the Bering Land Bridge, I'd certainly be open to reading it. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/25/2008 2:28:51 PM | Actually, there is evidence that the "first" people here were of Asian\Russian descent. But no one wants to here that up here.
Here is an example of my "reality". I own a share in a company that does seismic line cutting. A contract came up and we bid a price of $1700\kilometer. A native band won the contract at $2600\kilometer. Uhh...okay. But, see, they don't have any equipment so they sub'ed the contract to us for $2000\kilometer. It doesn't cross their reserve, it is just Crown land. If that isn't hand out BS what is?
Oh and I wanna say, since when did a defeated people dictate "terms" to the winner? Where are the Saxons proclaiming ownership? Or the Gauls? | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/25/2008 8:34:25 PM | jeremia, It seems cocytus did say because of the Bering land bridge we are of Asian stock.
So, your "reality" is you got an extra 300 dollar per kilometre "handout" , what are you complaining about?
The majority of the First Nations made treaties with the Canadians. Treaties are made between nations as equals. that's not defeat. where did you get all that "defeated" garbage? Did you find an old reform handbook? | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/25/2008 8:57:07 PM | Would this count? I would call the work ongoing....
"Finally, we note that our findings are relevant to a multiple migration theory for the peopling of the Americas. According to this hypothesis, the ancestors of modern Amerind, Na-Dene, and Eskimo-Aleut speakers migrated into the Americas in three independent waves of migration, separated in time by thousands of years. Proponents have claimed support from a perceived parallel in patterns of variation in language, dental morphology, and classical genetic markers (43). Although it has been recognized that the original genetic data used in this argument lacked resolving power, our analyses of the currently available mtDNA sequences show that the patterns of variation in genes and languages actually disagree. Although our findings do not disprove that multiple migrations occurred historically, they dissipate a principal argument that was advanced to formulate the theory."
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=547813
and that is for North American people. In South America it hasn't been studied as much but had many more languages being spoken, so one could extrapilate the above referenced data to work similarly for SA peoples. | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/25/2008 9:07:58 PM |
The majority of the First Nations made treaties with the Canadians.
That were not upheld.
Treaties are made between nations as equals.
Ya, right..... | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/25/2008 9:38:03 PM | and this;
"Median network analysis indicated that European and Native American haplogroup X mtDNAs, although distinct, nevertheless are distantly related to each other. Time estimates for the arrival of X in North America are 12,000-36,000 years ago, depending on the number of assumed founders, thus supporting the conclusion that the peoples harboring haplogroup X were among the original founders of Native American populations. "
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1377656 | |
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| Claims against the land
Posted: 2/26/2008 10:12:57 PM | The native people of Terra del Fuego in South America are 100% Australian Aboriginies both by DNA and culture. Evidence shows they were here thousands of years before the modern "Natives" and lived throughout South America for tens of thousands of years.
More evidence shows Europeans were here long before the Ices Ages and the coming of the so called "Red" Amercian native who are fact mostly Japanese,
Mongolian, Chinese and Russian descendents.
DNA and cultural differences show they came as different groups and different times and settled in different areas of the continets. So technically "We people of the Americas" really are from all over.
By the way did you know about .5% of the people in the world are believed to be directly descended from Gheigis Khan himself. That's 8% of the people of Asia.
And we are only talking 700 years ago. So, who's your uncle. | |
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