| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 2/23/2008 7:16:56 AM | YOODLE...hey...the idea of mining stuff on the moon is mostly for using those materials in space...inn earth orbit for starters. Not on this planet. Oxygen, water, aluminum...all that stuff to build stations, ships, power satellites, etc, all from the moon. ITta lot to get that stuff up off of earths surface because of the gravity...the moon only has about one sixth the gravity. It would be cheaper and easier (in the long run) to get it from the moon.
Certain things could be done in space that are difficult or impossible to do on earth...such as making crystals for certain functions, or producing delicate drugs that can be made in low gravity far easier than on earth. Small things like this can be easily shipped down to earth.
We don't need to make massive amounts of steel or aluminum on the palnet and try getting it up there, nor do we need to bring those amounts here...we have them.
We can do a lot of things...just takes the will and the dollars.
I took a look at "Life" magazine...for July of 1969....the one that is full of Appolo photos. Dang....we should never have stopped.... | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 2/23/2008 2:50:03 PM | I have heard about it and read it in Popular Mechanics.
. Nasa and geologists have collaborated and determined that their is a valuable energy fuel source of helium 3. There is so much abundance of it that engineers are designing ways to mine it for future space crafts for space exploration. | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 2/23/2008 3:22:54 PM | .
Sounds like a pipe dream to me.
How did they plan on getting past the van allen belt? Sending just bots maybe?
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 2/24/2008 5:52:35 PM | | According to current theory the moon is mostly made of caclium and silicon. In other words the moon is one big rock. There would be more incentive to mine asteroids although I dont think the logistics will allow that anyway soon. | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 2/25/2008 5:26:24 PM | I'll take care of the mining if you take care of teansporting the ore...  | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 2/27/2008 6:10:39 AM | There are statements from several astronauts, made public, and many tapes of the moon and a considerable number of flying objects on and above the moon's surface. These objects move with purpose and come in different shapes and sizes. This would denote intelligence. You can research this on such sites as Above Top Secret, and various Arial Annomalies, or UFO reports. With this in mind, one would think that some dialog would need to begin with whoever, or whatever is already on the moon.
Who would want a race as neighbors, that destroys , not only each other, but their own habitat. Just food for thought. Humans presume too much. They are too self-serving with no regard to any other sentient life forms, including their own. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 32 | |
| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 2/27/2008 6:21:35 AM | ^^^ but its pretty much a huge pile of BS.
The moon is useful to us a base. Factories without worrying about causing pollution and the possibility of growing larger crystals because of the lower G. Its biggest use is as a stepping stone, as someone pointed out its expensive to launch a rocket from earth, its a lot cheaper from the moon. If we can make use of H3 then its an option to send it back. But as a working platform to get to Mars its the best we have got. And Mars gets us the asteroid belt. Which has huge potential for mining. | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 2/27/2008 6:24:08 AM |
A lot of the mechanical, civil, electrical engineers see iron on the moon and think steel and industriaization. It isn't steel, there is no carbon. And it probably should be treated as a ceramic. At the temperatures of lunar night, iron and most iron alloys are brittle. Most cryogenic steels contain significant nickel.
Excellent point, and I'm glad to see a POFer making it.
For on-site use of materials ceramics and palstics are the way to go due to their natural flexibility through extreme temperature changes.
Would it ever pay to mine material on the moon and ship it back to Earth?
As I'm sure you already know, the key word there is material. Anything with mass is going to be expensive to transport to Earth without the use of solar-powered railguns and a very efficient automated robotic system for extracting said materials.
However, there are fewer economic hurdles to cross transporting energy. The initial investment is nothing to sneeze at, but the long-term gains are well worth it in the long-run.
Also, it is important to keep in mind, when discussing the Moon's available resources, that we've literally only scratched the surface. Our knowledge of the Moon's resources is almost entirely based on Moon rocks brought back from the surface. Humans have long ago depleted iron deposited on its surface by meteorites. If we were to land on Earth for the first time today we would assume it was iron-poor based on examining only the first few inches. Something to keep in mind. | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 2/29/2008 5:29:12 PM | | Don't be silly. That will not happen in the forseeable future. Even if the moon had a river of pure gold, the cost of transportation would be twenty times the value of the gold. Perhaps if you could find a pile of tons of large flawless diamonds. | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 6/2/2008 3:38:07 PM | mining the moon ay......
i'm just waitin to see which one of the Countries are going to claim it.!!
set-up-shop/ and start movin us about>
from one planet to the next, if we want to./ cool ay??
mine it!! i hope not. altho we don't know what exactly is there, i didn't realize it had been fully explored, yet!!
hmmm. very interesting/ i best come out of the cave more often. lol.
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 6/3/2008 12:35:12 PM | Japan and China are already eyeballing the moon with the idea of setting up permanent bases there.
The costs....take another look at this. The whole 10 year Apollo program cost quite a bit of money...until you break it down. It worked out to be about 5 cents...a nickel...a day for each American at that time. (Not taxpayers...each citizen...BIG differentce!) A family of four would have paid 20 cents a day.
How many of those "help the world" groups ask for the "price of a cup of coffee" per day as a donation. It is all how you put it in perspective.
Could America actually go "whole hog" with the moon and start developing it? Sure...the cost..."about the price of a cup of coffee per day". Could YOU donate that much to it without hurting too much? Sure you could. (Ok...starbucks and such might take offense....but hey...screw 'em...they'll be wanting the franchise rights anyways...) | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 6/3/2008 1:05:55 PM | I think it's a perfect idea. What better place for humankind to go and not have to worry about making the atmosphere unbreathable, the water undrinkable, worry about destroying the vegetation or leaving the landscape looking like the ravages of mining operations ?? The only way it could be more perfect would be if those that wanted to mine the moon would go there and stay there.
cdn guy | |
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| Mining the Moon?
Posted: 6/3/2008 8:16:03 PM | I believe the likely scenario is to construct facilities from lunar materials, including solar arrays for producing power, and a circumlunar equatorial MagLev rail transport/launching system to launch probes to just about any point in the solar system, perhaps beyond.
A well-planned Lunar colony or colonies should become completely self-sustaining over time, should even be able to export manufactured goods.
Thanks to "Tricky D1cky" Nixon we're about 40 years behind schedule. | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/4/2008 6:38:58 AM | | The mining of the moon would cause NASA to have a monopoly on the Cheese industry, effectively shutting down all cheese shops. | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/4/2008 2:15:07 PM | NASA's take on the idea:
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/About/Education/SpaceSettlement/75SummerStudy/Chapt.1.html | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 7:52:33 AM | even today......with technology advancing rapidly?/ do u think we cld " make up some time...??
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 11:28:37 AM | http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/39784.html
* Posted on Wednesday, June 4, 2008
China likely to beat U.S. back to the moon, NASA says
By Robert S. Boyd | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON — Here's one Olympic-style event that China is likely to win: landing the next humans on the moon.
Chinese astronauts are on schedule to beat the United States back to the moon by two or three years, the head of NASA's lunar exploration program said Wednesday.
``If they keep on the path they're on, they can" land before Americans do, said Rick Gilbreth, NASA's associate administrator for exploration systems.
The goal of NASA's Constellation program is to return astronauts to the moon by 2020, as proposed in President Bush's Vision for Space Exploration. Gilbreth said the Chinese could accomplish that by 2017 or 2018.
The Chinese lead will be even longer if the American schedule slips, as some space experts predict.
Beating the U.S. back to the moon would be a feather in a resurgent China's cap with psychological as well as military implications. Last year, China became the first nation in the world to shoot down a space satellite, setting off alarm bells in the Pentagon. Some defense analysts foresee a long-range competition between the U.S. and China for future military control of space.
America is still far ahead of China in space. The Chinese are aiming to duplicate a feat that this country accomplished almost 40 years ago. The first two Apollo astronauts landed on the moon in 1969, when Richard Nixon was in the White House.
In addition, NASA's back-to-the-moon program is substantially bolder than China's.
``They're taking an Apollo-like approach,'' Gilbreth said. ``Our program is much more ambitious than Apollo. We're going to put four people on the moon for seven days, eventually for six months. China is looking for a minimum capability. We're looking to put an outpost on the moon.''
He called China's space program ``very impressive,'' but said, ``We're not in a race. We're going for the long haul.''
China's interest in space dates to the 1950s. It sent up its first satellite in 1970, lofted its first astronaut into space in 2003 and launched a mission to orbit the moon in 2007.
Russia has landed robots on the moon but not humans.
NASA's new Lunar Reconnaissance Orbit is scheduled to launch this November. The first unmanned test flight of Orion, the next lunar lander, won't come until 2015.
As for the 2020 target for U.S. astronauts to land on the moon, a blue-ribbon panel of space experts recently expressed doubt that the timetable will be met.
``Human missions to the moon by the year 2020 ... are exceedingly unlikely,'' Kathryn Thornton, a member of the panel and a University of Virginia engineering professor, told the House Science Committee on April 3.
McClatchy Newspapers 2008 | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 12:38:23 PM | ^^^^ Good post, Beaugrand. Nice to think that I might live long enough to see another space race -- good stuff for us 'space nuts' (yes, I include myself). It was a funny clip to read though ... sounded more like: "Yeah well, you might get your lollipop first, but mine will be bigger. And if I'm a little late ... well ... some things came up." But still good to hear. I hear the Russians won't be participating in this one, though. Word is that they've decided to spend their dollars working on their hockey game ... (sorry, couldn't resist. I'm Canadian, eh ...)
cdn guy | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 1:02:46 PM | beaugrand....what do see in the way of....complictions , here, on planet earth.....
regarding... a " space war"??/ over "ownership" of the moon??
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 1:13:50 PM | An all-out effort, with public, Congressional, and Presidential support could probably see Americans on the moon in 5 years. Kennedy's original "Moon speech" in 1961 was followed by the first successful landing in 1969, but it could have been a couple years sooner if the Apollo 1 disaster had been avoided (by properly designing it in the first place).
Our rockets and computers are much better today, and a number of components could be designed to be reusable, thus lowering per-mission cost.
I was actually thinking about a reusable "Earth-orbit-to-Lunar-orbit-and-return" vehicle launched into Earth orbit by shuttle, a reusable lander parked in Lunar orbit, fuel for Lunar missions supplied by subsequent shuttle-to-orbit missions. Spread the cost of hardware over, say, 50 missions, and it becomes economical.
I think Lunar real estate is just barren and desolate enough to fight a nasty war over, so yes, it's possible. We do have a slight legal basis for ownership that becomes void when a Chinese astronaut sets foot on the lunar surface and plants a Chinese flag. | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 1:22:48 PM | hmmm, interesting, to say the least!!
i like the " reuseing"/ it is a savings. each and every time!!
boy!! i sure wish i cld go up there.
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 2:51:48 PM | cdn guy... guess we can predict , who will win the Olympics...//
i agree with you, beaugrand..is a wealth of information!!
i thank you as well!!
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/5/2008 5:41:38 PM | | Economics is based on supply and demand. Lately the US and other emerging economies are demanding a polution free energy source. I don't think He3 mining is too far off in the future. The only other viable option is solar created hydrogen for use in combustion vehicles. Long term we're probably looking at both. The more people become educated the greater the demand for these alternatives. | |
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| Mining the Moon? Random entry
Posted: 6/7/2008 6:54:35 AM | The mining of the loan is an impossibility that your grandchildren will probably never see!
Our space agency a.k.a. NASA has just cut their budget significantly over the last three years including funds for the space station which is probably the most important single element of international growth and relationships between the world's powers that this world has ever undertaken and we can't support that wonderful concept.
You people talk about heating things up on the moon as if there were something that you could burn?
Aside from solar power, there isn't anything to make heat on the moon and that takes quite an effort to create such a large structure that you can start creating enough heat to melt back together into a building, and none of that is going to happen 60 years for certain.
Oh yeah I forgot you want to build a nuclear power plant on the moon... I had the opportunity to tour a nuclear power plant in the year 1997, and although I was a jet mechanic and build planes for the Air Force for several years the technology involved in the construction of such a building is so immense it is beyond my ability to communicate it to you.
There are systems of redundancy that service systems of redundancy that service systems of redundancy so that the people working under such conditions are safe!
This takes 10 to 15 years to do in an earthlike gravity with all the materials being readily trucked to the site, and you want to build a nuclear power plant on the moon for power?
It is one thing to dream, to have dreams and to believe that these dreams can come true, and it is another thing altogether to think that we are going to put a processing plant on the moon... alongside a nuclear power plant,,, and create roads, or some sort of airtight tubes, between the two soon we can move the materials,,,
Has anybody been paying attention to the fact that they spent over $1 billion on the solar panels on the space station, and can't get what they are now calling debris out of the knuckle joints??
They have at least four spacewalks to those knuckle joints and panels that protect the joints and I would imagine worm gears that turn those giant solar panels... some of the best minds on the planet earth working on the problem,, and he can even get the debris out of the knuckles...
And you are talking about it building a nuclear power plant on the moon?
It's just that can happen!
So perhaps you can call them Moon dreams...????
the keyzguy369 | |
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