| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/4/2008 11:13:56 PM | Many women I have asked this of seem to be of the opinion that, if the man in their life was adamant and clear about his unwillingness to marry, they would leave him -- even if they loved one another greatly. Men, on the other hand, seem much more willing to remain in a loving relationship, indefinitely, without the sanction of marriage.
How about you, ladies? If you loved him and he said, "I love you with all my heart and soul, but no way, no how; I'm NOT going to marry you. I just do not want to be married." Do you leave him or stay until someone dies?  | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 12:41:37 AM | It would for me. To be happily married is what I have wanted since I was 10 years old. If I were involved with a man, and he made it clear that we would never get married, I would stop seeing him.
I think of a man and a woman living together without being married is a lot like two children playing house.
To me, when a man and a woman marry they become a family. With or without children. If laws change then it could be when two people who love each other marry, they become a family. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 12:57:42 AM | The person who said it takes love to marry but it doesn't take marriage to be in love said it perfectly for me.
But I don't have the happily ever after fantacy / dream drilled in my head like most women do. I had one girlfriend say if she didn't get married she didn't see herself as being a real woman due to these childhood fantasies she was fed. Sad really. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 1:13:44 AM | I think of course it depends on the two people involved. If someone tells you from the outset they are 'anti' marraige and its very important to you, then it's unlikely you two are going to work. it doesn't mean they dont love you, just they may have strong feelings against it. It's very wrong to try and force or blackmail them into changing strong held beliefs just to coincide with yours.
surely it's the same as saying I want kids, or I dont want kids, or I like dogs, or I dont, you have to decide how important it is to you before you get head over heels and it gets messy. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 1:21:52 AM | I'm absolutely uninterested in getting involved with anyone who doesn't expect marriage to be the culimination of a long term relationship. Marriage is a partnership and I seek a partnership for the long term that lasts until death do us part. Someone who is afraid of marriage, which for me is the ultimate legal commitment, is someone who is not ready for a serious, permanent commitment.
I've also determined, after much thought, that pretty much anything that isn't marriage, isn't really anything other than "playing house." I don't care to live with anyone again. If I'm good enough to live with, I'm good enough to marry.
I don't care to become deeply involved physically and emotionally again, unless it's going to be a lasting, permanent relationship. Jumping from one partner to the next after these "friend with benefits," serial-monogamy-style relationships end is no longer acceptable for me. What I see occurring is that people meet, they date a little, become sexually intimate under the guise of a serious commitment, they have great sex or not so great sex, until one or the other or both tire of it and they start fighting, and then one or the other or both are done and it's onto the next so-called "serious long term relationship." lol. What a load of hooey! What this is, is simply doing one another until you tire of one another and calling it a commitment.
Nope, the only serious commitment I see is marriage. And it needs to be with someone who understands the vows and honest to God intends to abide by and honor them to the letter. This requires mature individuals who understand what the word "parternship" means and what that entails. It requires excellent communication skills and a willingness to really exhibit the meaning of the word "love." Marriage isn't for sissies and it's sure not for kids. And yes, I do feel that if it's real love, marriage isn't going to be something either person is afraid of. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:09:05 AM |
What I see occurring is that people meet, they date a little, become sexually intimate under the guise of a serious commitment, they have great sex or not so great sex, until one or the other or both tire of it and they start fighting, and then one or the other or both are done and it's onto the next so-called "serious long term relationship." lol. I counter with: What I see occurring is that people meet, they date a little, become sexually intimate under the guise of a serious commitment, they get married have great sex or not so great sex, until one or the other or both tire of it and they start fighting and then one or the other or both are done and it's onto divorce and the whole process starts over or, in some cases ~ it's onto POF whithout bothering to get divorced or legally separated and moved out of the marital home.
I'm not against marriage.. but it's not something that would be manditory for me either. Unfortunately; a marriage license does not necessarily mean a life-long monogomous commitment, especially in this day and age. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:23:27 AM | Love does not require marriage.
I'm ambivalent about marriage... mainly because I am VERY clear about my position on divorce.
So, if the man I loved did not ever want to marry, I would be fine with that. That's the relatively easy choice.
If he wanted to marry? hmm... as far as I'm concerned, that would take a lot more time of relating before we could get to discussing marriage seriously. I'd want our relationship to be really well developed before considering it.
^^ LOL, I'm not being logical on this one... I "know" we cannot predict the future... and so I'm saying, gee, I'd want to have spent a long time with you to "know" that this will work for the long haul before taking that step. Not possible to know, and not possible to avoid risk. Don't know how I would handle it frankly... depends on whether my fear or my hope is winning the battle on that day. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:21:30 AM | The world today is a mess; especially the U.S.; when it comes to relationships. We have 51% divorce rate, a ton of young women having unprotected sex creating a whole lot of single mom homes, and a 25% STD rate among teens.
I think stability is the key. Many live together thinking its responsible but in reality it allows you a quick out;
Many people are also bad in relationships; they can go 3-5 years and then they move on. Its not that they are bad; it means that they just aren't good long term. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 12:21:59 PM | I believe that True Love ideallistically requires all the basic cornerstones and tenets of 'marriage', albeit not neccessarily the bureacracy of paperwork and as is the case today the unapologetic extravagance that bridezilla's submit their nearest and dearest to....
I would absolutely love to be married again, for all the romantic reasons but also because I personally (once in a while) recall how it felt to have the belief that we were both committed to the same purpose and goals and with equanimity...
Later I discovered I was stable, steadfast and held fast to the sacred aspects of what it meant to be a committed partner, but that this isn't always mutually felt.
I love my friendships and have to say that I feel a deep respect for those who can commit without the 3-ring circus and who do it simply, elegantly and with a deep devotion that lacks pomp and curcumstance but does have an element of the whimsy, in that it captures the uniqueness of the expression of two loves, and everything they bring to it day by day.... | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 12:39:18 PM | For me, true love doesn't mean the relationship goes into marriage. What true love does mean to me is that a fella and I are in an exclusive relationship, and that we've quit looking around. Look at Goldie Hawn & Kurt Russell, they are happier than 2 bugs in a rug, yet they've not walked down the aisle.
Lord knows, too many people enter a marriage not loving each other, much less being in love with each other. Wearing a ring and applying for a license is not always an indication of true love. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 12:55:34 PM | Yes, they can love someone and not want to marry them. It could be a matter of their feelings about the institution of marriage. A lot of people have no faith in it, especially if they grew up with a less than perfect example of marriage. It would best to find out the person's reasons for not wanting to get married.
I lived common-law for 10 years and never felt the relationship lacked anything because we weren't married. The breakup certainly had nothing to with whether or not we had a marriage licence.
If after a certain period of time a person did not want to get married or live common law, then I would worry. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 1:53:10 PM | Quote:"The world today is a mess; especially the U.S.; when it comes to relationships. We have 51% divorce rate"
Sounds like old figures.
Supposedly it's in the area of 60% now.
Worse yet?
85% of those divorces were instigated by the wife.
I used to believe in marriage, but now it is a dangerous financial risk for men at best.
There ARE exceptions , but as a rule the man loses the most in a divorce. Regardless of if his wife makes more or less money.
Love does NOT ultimatley require marriage.
Like when the woman says "if you dont marry me you dont love me".
Or if she says "if you need a pre-nup, you dont love me".
Yet theres that 60% / 85% shadow overhead that increasingly CANNOT any longer be ignored that makes the man ask:
"Yes i do love you. But why do you need the capacity to financially obliterate me to prove it????"
I feel bad for the honest women out there who just want to settle down with a man and have a nice life together.
For the rest of the gold/ silver/ bronze/ copper/ iron diggers out there..............
2 old sayings.
"You reap what you sow"
and.........................
"Karma is a ****!"  | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:36:16 PM |
I really like this topic. I've had discussions around this subject/issue before, and I would have say that it all depends on what each person in the relationship feels they need. For me, if I'm in a relationship with a man who tell me he loves me, and is in love with me, but he doesn't want to marry me...that would be a problem because for me, the institution of marriage is about announcing to the world that we belong to each other, that we are committed to each other, and that we truly love each other. We may already know this, but it's a matter of showing up in the world as a team. This doesn't mean, of course, that we do everything together. We still have our own jobs, friends, interests, and we share friends and interests as well. I think arriage ought to be seen as a way of honouring and celebrating each other and the relationship officially, not only in our own hearts and minds, but also in the eyes of the world. We can say that 'who cares what the world thinks or believes', and that is a valid statement, but we do live, work, play and love in the world...not only behind closed doors. Thus, if a man says he loves me and is in love with me, there would be no reason not to be married ^^^^^^Well said oshen. I agree. That being said, I do believe far too many go into marriage without giving it proper thought or with their eyes closed. | |
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zeeba
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Joined: 3/27/2008
Msg: 66 | |
| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:41:57 PM | This is a great question...and kind of complex below the surface!
I want and desire a long-term relationship with love, but as I have noted in another forum discussion, I don't believe in living together without being married. So in this case, I would be very open to a loving and committed relationship with a man -- and maintain separate residences so that when we did get together, it would be something we'd both look forward to very much!! So yes, I believe it is possible to have true love without marriage.
Any takers out there? | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:55:09 PM | In my opinion, yes it does.
So much is made about love and how you can know when it's real. People long to hear those "3 little words", agonize over saying them, melt when hearing them, ponder over whether it's the real thing or not...... The next step after saying those 3 little words should be saying those 4 little words...Will you marry me?
That is when you know it's real. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:56:20 PM | | I could love a man and be in an exclusive relationship, where we both have our own homes, our own finances, etc. No need to get married OR live together. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 3:14:05 PM | I'm surprised there are no responses from de facto partnerships, (or I may have missed them). My significant other is from New Zealand and we have been together nearly a year. As his de facto partner he will sponsor me to go into New Zealand so we can live there. Maybe because I am older, or maybe because I was married for 27 years, I see things from a different perspective. I don't want to get married; I don't see the necessity of announcing anything to the world. All I know is that there is one man in this world that loves me as much as I love him and there is nothing beyond that for me. We are committed to each other and that is what matters - what is between the two of us. To me, it's more about how we work together, support each other, listen to and respect each other and seek out a future together. Would we feel any different about each other if we got married? Not likely.
( By the way, I think people should be allowed to have a civil union, and if they want, sanctify it with a religious ceremony. ) | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 3:23:02 PM | | marriage is only a piece of paper it doesnt make things better and sometimes it can make things worse. you can be in a commited relationship with out the piece of paper, and be a lot happier. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:41:53 PM | Depending on a persons view of marriage, a person can indeed love another and yet not desire the approval of the government telling you that you are married. Before I get married, I would like to know the benefits I get out of being "married".
I spent two years in a Law Clerk program. I took business/contract law, family law, real estate law, small claims, etc. An unmarried couple, if they take the proper steps can protect their interest in all the same ways as though they were married. Even if you're married, that is no guarantee that your wishes will take priority over members of their family.
I fully intend when the thoughts of becoming "married" come up to go through the process of writing up a "marriage contract" which would outline every little detail regarding the "marriage" and in the eventual demise of the relationship what happens afterwards. I intend to visit the aspects of support and custody issues, as well as division of property in this contract to the extent that if a divorce occurs, a judge could take this contract see that we made these decisions, spend 5 minutes to determine whether it's fair, and then call it a day and call us divorced. Basically I think it is better to talk about custody and support issues when you're in love, rather than trying to fight over it when you're out of love. | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/5/2008 11:49:47 PM | Zeeba ... a question to posit:
In your post you said "when we do get together ..."
Does that assume that "eventually" you and he will marry and/or cohabit? And, more directly, is your viewpoint altered at all if he flat rejects doing one or both? 
SBNT ... interesting perspective:
Your post that you plan to draw up a detailed pre-nuptial agreement, you speak of "the eventual demise of the relationship ..." Are you suggesting that the relationship (marriage, in the case where you've both executed such a document) is certain to reach a death before one of its participants? And how would you manage the argument that "if you love me, then you'd trust and know that we don't need a pre-nup?" | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/6/2008 6:18:56 AM | | If youre in true love, a ring and papers really dont add very much. If one partner needs the commitment maybe its not a good idea to get married? | |
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| Does True Love Ultimately Require Marriage?
Posted: 5/6/2008 7:10:40 AM |
How about you, ladies? If you loved him and he said, "I love you with all my heart and soul, but no way, no how; I'm NOT going to marry you. I just do not want to be married." Do you leave him or stay until someone dies?
I would stay, but that could just be because I see no reason to get married.
I already did it once because it was what HE wanted. Big mistake.
Being married did not protect me/him or our relationship in anyway. All it did was make it that much harder/more expensive to end things when they needed to be ended.
If I was truely in love with somebody, and him with me, I would not need a piece of paper to say that. If I trust a man enough to even consider marriage, then I trust him enough to be with him without the cermony. He doesn't become anymore commited just because he says "I do". Either we are commited to each other, or we aren't. | |
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