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| | Do men really like submissive women? Page 13 of 19 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19) |
, most men these days were not raised to be men. This means that they are stuck in arrested development and need a mother more then a wife
THATGUYJAY: Great post, Jay. I think you are SO RIGHT ON! You are singing my mantra. Just look at TV commercials as one example. Men are portrayed as weak and fragile and needing women (and even children!) to tell them what to do and how to think. Look with a critical eye at the TV commercials---seriously. It's subtle and it's horrific.
modern woman is raised to deny their natural female impulses, and there is this kind of silent assumption that a woman who resolves that she "needs" a man is some how weak and is doing harm to the "cause". Where so called feminism is actually a philosophy bent on masculating women, and feminising men against their nature.
I am a woman who is way happier and fulfilled in a relationship with a man and have been criticized BY WOMEN as if this is a weak and faulty character flaw. And yet I can promise you I am a very strong woman. I see them living their independent lives (they don't "need a man"--God forbid) but they seem unhappy and I'd bet out of touch with their sexuality as well. Masculinity and femininity are each beautiful and compliment each other, make the other more beautiful, not less so. Somehow the ying/yang boundaries have gotten all screwed up. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/27/2009 5:29:23 PM |
Dominance only goes one way. Over the head of submission. It dominates. That means that it is the higher percentage of. Men are that by nature. Sure you can break someone's mind and will. But that is a mind broken. Not the nature of the thing. So by nature men dominate women, predominately except for that percentage of anomaly. They are and always have been the primary subjugators.
There is no argument there until you get into twisted personal definitions and lifestyles that go against nature. Then you get into nebulous fragments of languages that are not common nor understood by any but those who have chosen to adopt it.
The essence isn't Domination. It's submission. I refer you to Adorablebeast's post and soulfoodwanted's post just above yours.
If you want to attach a dominant nature to men, then attach the submissive nature to women.
When you do that and review all the social and biological evolution of the human race, you may come to the realization that it's an exchange. An exchange, which could even be defined as "equitable". Because in the final analysis, the submissive holds the power. She simply decides how much to extend to the Dom.
He works to have as much power as he can, by earning her trust.
Dominance is the strength she pushes against to fulfill her submissive nature. She can move to her feminine core, when she knows she can do so safely. He is protecting her much as he does when she is carrying his offspring. (That's the biological source.)
What you've described is "domineering", not "dominance".
When you look at it from the perspective of submission, it's different. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/27/2009 8:43:56 PM | I like submissive woman and on the other hand like a woman that can take charge and lead the way.....Knowing what shes doing...thats the hard thing...a woman thats assertive and knows how to treat a man..... | |
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Posted: 5/28/2009 4:03:40 AM | | at least there are some people left with logic in this world | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 11:45:00 AM |
We aren't talking about any kind of exchange in domination.
Right. We're not talking about domination at all. We're talking about submission. And, we're talking about submission as it relates to domination. When the two terms are discussed separately, they are entirely different; i.e., your reference to harems.
Furthermore, we're not talking about bullying or abuse, which are outside the topic. Bullying and abuse negate submission, because they don't leave the option of yielding. Submission involves yielding.
I agree with your description of bullies and abusers, though. That's exactly what they do. And, unfortunately they sometimes do it under the guise of being in D/s relationships.
I am so done with this.
I guess you won't be replying, then, huh? | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 12:03:27 PM | That would depend. Submissive, specifically in the bedroom or overall? I am aggresive to a point, especially when challenged physically or mentally. I like the stimulation. Therefore the level of aggresion has to be equal, so that one does not overpower the other, or it would a dictatorial relationship.
A totally submissive woman is weak and mostlikely to be lured to someone more dominate that what she has now. JMO | |
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Posted: 5/28/2009 3:06:40 PM |
Msg: 34 -- Someone once told me that "When a man owns his woman, she
more-so owns him" I didn't get it at the time...
"At the time" or "even now"? I once "owned" a FINE woman. She was
ALWAYS at my beck and call. For odd reasons, we could not live
together, but it was always SHE who TOPPED from the BOTTOM, even
though I didn't recognize it as such at the time. It was SHE who
INSISTED on SEX **FIRST** BEFORE we went out on a date. Yet, for some
odd reason, she made ME feel I was her MASTER. I could fvck her any
time I wished, and I did. Yet, looking BACK on the relationship, I can
see NOW how she had me wrapped around her little finger, a situation
of which I was TOTALLY unaware. I ordered her around like a dog, but
whenever she said "I want" I melted like butter. She and I BOTH got
what we wanted from the relationship, mine by DEMAND and hers by,
what, subterfuge? Deceit? Manipulation? Looking back, I have ALWAYS
**HATED** manipulating women, and yet SHE did so with charisma and
style. We BOTH seemed to satisfy each other in SPITE of my distaste
for what she seemingly did. Her OFFENSE to me comes to the surface
AFTER the fact, namely, after the relationship. The relationship as it
existed seemed to satiate BOTH of our desires.
Should I take offense at her seeming deception, IF in fact that is
what it was?
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 4:02:08 PM | Malestrome and Top I am so enjoying your discussion. I think that with everything it comes finally back to the interpretation of the word 'submit'.
Malestrome, you give a factual interpretation of the state of submission. In many D/s relationships that I have known of, your description is exact. In this day and age the actual choice to submit to the Dom/Master/Sir is consented, but from the moment that choice is made the submissive/slave looses all ability to consent. As such you are correct. I know of NO sub who did not cry with fear at the point of being collared, at the moment she became a possession.
Top, your interpretation is the typical romantic notion of submission. In your interpretation you are also correct, as the dynamics of any D/s relationship are established by its participants.
Perhaps in the end it comes down to the word 'submit' or 'submissive', I believe that more likely the correct term in most relationships (being referred to here) is 'serve'. Do men like women who serve?? Do some women like to serve their men?? Because the true 'submissive' does not argue, does not speak without permission, has no opinion, has no will other than his/her Masters.
Rather the woman who serves, recognises that she has an opinion and can share it, that she can stand on her own emotional and intellectual abilities, she chooses to defer to her man, to put his success, his happiness, his achievements ahead of her own.
Just my take on it all | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 6:21:48 PM | | Never met one. I think that I might actually have set next to a woman who enjoys being submissive. But I have never been to bed with a woman who did. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 6:52:48 PM | TOPCHUCK:
If I Dominate and force her to accept my submission aren't I still Domming?
You are right. I stand corrected, sir.  | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 7:38:44 PM | Hey Malestrome,
Nice definition. Some women enjoy the submissive role as do some guys. I think the OP should define what she wants, first. If someone gives themselves mid, body and soul to another it would be consentual and opens the BDSM world. But like you said, one likes to play the role and perhaps fulfill a deeper desire. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 8:05:26 PM | | Thanks to chix crying ''rape'' whenever they feel like it, guys these days are alot more careful. I personally am cool with playing games or getting into whatever rocks the boat, but when it gets serious and a woman gets into my heart, I make love to her most of the time and it comes from my heart. I can dom the hell out of her if that's her thing, but you're not going to find it much. The feminazi's have neutered alot of today's new guys. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 8:25:51 PM |
Malestrome and Top I am so enjoying your discussion. I think that with everything it comes finally back to the interpretation of the word 'submit'.
Glad to provide some enjoyment, shell. There's much in your post. It does come back to the word "submit", as I suggested to Malestrome. But I don't find your description of D/s very accurate.
In fact, I find it demeaning of the class of women who call themselves "submissives".
Let's start with the a description of "The Power Exchange", which is the essence of D/s relationships. Stated simply the exchange is trusting in exchange for being cherished. The exact elements are trust, acceptance, and appreciation by the submissive in exchange for being cherished, understood and respected by the Dom. Cherishing includes being nurtured, cared for, treasured and yes, even protected. Trusting, by implication means obedience.
The idea of the submissive serving the Dom is inapposite in the power exchange. In fact, the serving is more the responsibility of the Dom, then the submissive. He does constant maintenance. Granted the division of labor is defined by the Dom and that may mean duties that you call "serving". But he's been given the responsibility for the relationship.
Trust exists only to the extent the Dom proves trust-worthy. The submissive can always withhold consent, by not extending trust, if she finds the Dom untrustworthy. There is no such thing as slavery in the U.S., anymore. So, this consensual relationship can always be ended, by either party; but particularly the submissive.
Trusting is actually submitting and there's no reason to withhold that trust, that submission, as long as the Dom is trustworthy. The submissive trusts the Dom to control her actions. If his control violates the elements he provides, i.e., cherishing, understanding, respecting, she'll withhold her trust. She has the right to withhold that trust completely and leave the relationship, if she finds the relationship unrewarding or even at the extreme, abusive.
The power actually resides with the submissive, because of the control she exercises over trusting. The Dom is constantly working to earn that trusting, by cherishing, understanding and respecting. The consent isn't a one time occurrence, it is continual from the beginning of the relationship. He has to keep earning it.
The structure of the power exchange makes the relationship nearly equitable.
I know of NO sub who did not cry with fear at the point of being collared, at the moment she became a possession.
The tone of your description isn't accurate. I've never heard of a submissive reacting to being collared in the manner you describe. In fact, traditionally the submissive seeks the collar and approaches the Dom and requests the collar. If she were going to cringe in fear, why would she seek the collar in the first place?
If your description of submissives were accurate, the answer about men wanting them would seem to be a categorical, resonating "NO". No real man I know wants a doormat. What you've described is more of a mother than a submissive. If that's the understanding here in 'Vanilla Land' of a submissive, then the question by the Op wasn't worth asking.
... she chooses to defer to her man, to put his success, his happiness, his achievements ahead of her own.
That's totally backwards. The Dom helps his submissive reach heights she might not reach without him. The greater the submissive, the more prestige the Dom earns in the eyes of the world. Real Doms don't let their submissives put the Dom's needs first.
We nurture our submissives with the same loving care a sports car aficionado lavishes on his Lamborghini. We treasure them and treat them with the utmost respect, because that's what they deserve and earn by giving us the truly wonderful gift of their submission.
May you someday experience that depth of loving, shell. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/28/2009 9:51:40 PM | well girls if you like to be submissive then im your man
love to get rough in the bedroom
and to see into your eyes when u come | |
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Posted: 5/29/2009 12:40:58 AM | These days guys have got to be super careful they could very well be charged with rape. This is the biggest reason I like dominant women.
Peace Edward | |
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Posted: 5/29/2009 5:37:52 AM | I am with nos. 11 and 13
besides you can't just be aggressive with someone if they don't like it
one man's/woman's idea of playfulness may feel utterly unacceptable to another; one might be aggressive thinking it will turn you on, when it won't.
I'd rather be a wimp than lose a date from guessing wrong.
F | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 6:07:51 AM | TOPCHUCK:
You've met doormats, not submissive women
Doormats are depressed. The submissive women I know are strong, intelligent, self confident, and don't follow senselessly. They seem to truly know how to love and be loved. It would be your greatest luck to know a real submissive.
We are talking about love here. We are talking about the STRUCTURE of a LOVING relationship CO-CREATED by two people who love each other--two equals---LOVE LOVE LOVE---it's about structure--it's about boundaries--it's about how two equals who love each other may choose to structure their relationship. It's not about spankings and bondage and all of that--though these may be ingredients--like eggs in a cake.
I went back and copied the above quote because I think TopChuck's point has gotten lost in this discussion. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 7:29:02 AM |
The submissive can always withhold consent TOPCHUCK
This statement hits the proverbial nail on the head. This is what it seems people don't get. The woman is gifting the man with her power, and he has to earn it by demonstrating to her that he can be trusted with it. When that trust is earned, she gives it to him freely. And she can take it back, too.
The Dom is constantly working to earn that trusting, by cherishing, understanding and respecting. TOPCHUCK
Gosh, Chuck, you really are on top! This, my dears, is what separates the men from the boys.
I think when many men figure this out, they will say "forget that!" It's as if they are saying "Oh, baby, you like to be submissive? Come here. I have a big d.ick and I will f.uk your brains out and pull your hair and spank you......." They DON'T GET IT. I think many would fly away when they figure out it requires him to earn her trust--to work for it--that it has more to do with his loving her than his f.uking her. It is about providing EMOTIONAL/SPIRITUAL as well as PHYSICAL love.
Things are out of balance in the world today. So much emphasis on physical love and gratification and not enough importance being placed on giving our partners what they need emotionally, in my opinion. We are emotional/spiritual beings first, physical second. The sexual part of it is not to be minimized in any way--it's VERY important, yummy wonderful, orgasmically important---it's not just ALL of it, it comes as a RESULT of it.
Our culture has not taught men what true masculinity is really about. They don't know what it looks like. Men who see the "loving, symbiotic relationship" part of this with and all of its splendid glories for both man and woman----- there is the "REAL MAN" .
So to the question: "Do men really like submissive women?" I'd say: "probably not" Why? Because you can't be a "submissive" woman without a truly masculine REAL man kind of man and there are so few!"
Wow this may be my longest post ever. Thanks if you took the time to read it. peaceout. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 8:03:16 AM | | I actually prefer to be submissive in that I like being ravished. I like the whole male wanting to take me in his arms and kissing me all over and taking me to the bedroom where he takes me to heaven and back. Not talking about rough unwanted sex. I am talking about having sex with someone I care deeply for and enjoy his taking me and having his way with me. Of course I love responding in a way that pleases him as well. Nothing wrong with a little hair pulling if its done right. No one has to get hurt yet can still be aroused by passionate sex. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 8:17:06 AM |
Sorry, lady, it IS about spanking and rope tricks. Because that is precisely what differentiates them and segregates them into a sect of society as opposed to other sexual proclivities. MALESTROME
First of all, please don't call me "lady". I am not your lady, buddy. Secondly, you certainly have a way of making things extraordinarily complicated. I feel your post meanders like the Mississippi River around the topic, and I feel no motivation to respond to its substance. I will say, however, that nowhere in my post did I defend any cultural "sects". On the contrary, I have pointed out that, throughout culture, ideas about masculinity and femininity have become twisted.
This discussion is not even about any specific cultural sects. There is no "them" in this discussion. This is a conversation about a man and a woman co-creating a loving relationship where both parties are conscious of the power that already naturally exists between a man and a woman, and how that power exchange can work for the good of both.
Have a great weekend! | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 1:46:19 PM | adorablebeast: Learning how men and women love and how they need to be loved is an interesting journey. I have been on the same journey for several years and discovered that learning the elements of love are the keys to a lasting relationship. Do men really like submissive women? I think they would, if they knew how to handle them. What man would not want to be trusted, accepted, appreciated and loved? What man doesn't want to cherish, understand, respect and love his woman? What healthy person would not want to be in a relationship that has all these elements?
Understanding these elements and applying them to the daily events in a personal relationship will bring great intellectual, emotional and sensual fulfillment to both the man and the woman...and personal relationship is a key phrase.
People misunderstand the terms dominant and submissive by failing to understand the elements of loving. Anyone can be a doormat and anyone can be a bully, but where is the intellectual challenge in that? Trusting a man to steer the relationship while he cherishes, understands and respects the woman, frees the woman to be strong in the relationship. A lot of responsibility falls on the man because he steers the relationship, but he will find it worthwhile when he receives the trust, acceptance, appreciation and love from his woman.
I wish you luck adorablebeast and hope you find everlasting love. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 1:51:21 PM | You're right in a sense, Malestrome, but it's about theft; an attempt to co-opt a sub culture.
How in the world can ingredients in something not be the something those ingredients comprise? It's like saying I have a heart, lungs, intestines etc but they aren't not human. I am. When the very ingredients make it what it is. One less grain in the hour glass and you lose part of that hour.
The "Life", as you call it, earlier in that same post, does include BDSM. That's because elements of BDSM are often involved in D/s relationships. But to continue your analogy D/s is the human and BDSM are some of the parts. BDSM is kink, just as you say. And, those who are into that narrow aspect are very demonstrative, exhibitionists to a large extent. They have, to a large degree, argued just as you have that nothing exists outside their universe of enjoyment, which is whatever their individual kink happens to be.
And, it's so bad among them that a commonly repeated negative mantra is, "My kink is normal, but your kink is sick."
I don't know why that BDSM "sub-sect" insists they are the sect. I don't care, other than people who haven't studied the D/s sub culture, but have rubbed up against the edges, buy the silliness about D/s being an adjunct of BDSM. It gives D/s a bad name, by association, if you consider any of those activities in BDSM, as being abnormal or aberrant.
Here's the way to fully understand it, if that matters to you: All Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism, are Dominant/submissive activities. Not all D/s activities involve BDSM. That way, it's easy to see which is a part of which. I don't know what the BDSMers interest is in owning D/s, other than maybe their insatiable urge to bully and domineer and to a large degree preen like a lost flock of peacocks.
If you want to discuss BDSM, we need another thread. The question in this thread is about submission, which isn't included as a named activity in BDSM.
And, finally, I'm sorry you bought the propaganda line about the kinksters owning D/s. Believe me; they don't. | |
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