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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 3:18:50 PM | soulfoodwanted,
Congratulations on your longest post ever. I wonder if I'll ever post my shortest ever; less than a million miles long.
I agree with your consistently stated thesis about men not being men and women not being women, in our modern society.
Loving truly involves each gender reaching the deepest immersion into their gender identity. What the posts say by some circuitous reasoning is that women are at the core of their gender identity, when they are submissive.
That shouldn't bother even those in the women's movement, based on defining that femininity as trusting, accepting and appreciating of the man who they love, as long as the man they love is protecting their autonomy. And, to truly cherish, understand and respect her, he must protect that and encourage her self-actualization.
Some of the most ardent supporters of the women's rights movement have been men.
The nice little secret about loving well, is that in that deep immersion into gender identity, a comfort zone is reached that makes it all very smooth and easy.
Loving is easiest when it's done while we are at home in our minds.
It's not that hard, when the way to do it is known. It reverberates, so that loving forces gender-ness and gender-ness forces loving.
What we really need to learn is how to keep it going, when it seems to have stopped. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/29/2009 3:29:34 PM |
Sorry, lady, it IS about spanking and rope tricks. Because that is precisely what differentiates them and segregates them into a sect of society as opposed to other sexual proclivities.
That's like saying Christianity is about wearing a cross around your neck, and Judaism is about wearing a yamulke.
There is no "them" in this discussion
Well, for MALESTROME, there is a them. Whenever there is ignorance, there is always a them.
I particularly liked the way he tells us all about BDSM'ers and then says no one can say what they're about unless they talk to everyone who is into BDSM. And by "particularly liked", I meant I laughed | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/30/2009 10:11:23 AM | The Dom is constantly working to earn that trusting, by cherishing, understanding and respecting.
I get that this is one kind of D/s, really I do. I just personally can't get behind it.
It's too reminiscent of "my submission is a precious gift" and frankly makes me want to puke.
I think if I was a dominant man I'd be burned out on submissive women who have this child like attitude that what they offer is such a huge deal, when half the time what they really have to offer is this package with so many strings attached, it looks like a Gordion knot. I really do understand that the single people on this site and elsewhere are trying to market themselves and therefore package all the weird shit we do as attractively as possible based on the standards set in our culture but enough is enough.
The truth? I think we're all just royal pains in the ass.
Every single submissive female I know has the weirdest love map I have ever seen.
Were I to be looking for a mate? Wanna know how I would package myself?
I'd tell the damned truth.
I'd rather not make decisions. You do it. There, that's the last decision I'll make.
I get some kind of perverse kick out of crawling around on the floor and offering you food. Makes me feel important in an oh so humble fvcking way.
In order to be turned on emotionally I have to be in some totally whacked place of idol worship.
In order to be turned on sexually you have to hit me and call me names, nope, showing me the big boner and grabbing at the snatch a couple of times is not going to do it.
Neither will kissing.
Getting me to do something traditionally "nice" for myself can be like pulling wisdom teeth, four of them.
You doing something traditionally "nice" for me is like open-heart surgery.
Complimenting me is like brain surgery.
Making me feel helpless will turn me on but take me too far and we have Chernobyl on our hands ladies and gentlemen.
I am a royal pain in the ass. The path to my heart is like some horrid Greek myth -- Will he take the path with the three headed monster at the end of it who snacks on heroes or will he take the other one that has at the end the fair damsel who is emotionally autistic, sexually perverse and mentally deranged?
Guys? A bit of advice. Take the three headed monster path, you've got better odds.
Edited to add:
Because you can't be a "submissive" woman without a truly masculine REAL man kind of man and there are so few!"
Hogwash. Who I am does not depend on other people. I still get to be me whether he's a "truly masculine REAL man kind of man" or not. Despite my little joking rant up there I know that my submission is rich and useful and it is owned by me, not he who evokes it. I don't give it away. It's not a gift for others. It's mine, and I won't peddle if for money, sex, affection, social standing or a thrill. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/30/2009 10:27:24 AM | Ok, I was in a cranky mood a few minutes ago. Sorry folks.
I'm going to try to address this topic more respectfully.
There are those who say submission is earned. I've never experienced this. It puts me too squarely on the top to be judging his behavior and deciding if I'm going to reward him with this thing called "my submission".
If a man comes to me in a posture of "let me please you and prove my worth" we may become friends.
If a man comes to me with a posture of independence and self reliance I will follow him and try to be useful. It's handy if he has a vulnerable spot somewhere, that dragon missing the scale thing. For my previous mate it was that he was lonely. He was thirty-five years old, had never even been in a long term relationship let alone married, and he was completely capable of taking care of himself. His one weakness was that at thirty-five he was beginning to get lonely. If nothing else folks, I am good company.
After about a year of being together our problem was that I trusted him too much! I was throwing down the gauntlet over and over and over, and over and over his response was, "You can trust me, I won't abandon you, I'll sacrifice all my basic wants and needs to be with you."
And we wondered why I looked down at the top of his head and said, "Pitooey"?
I'm a woman who seems to thrive on fear and finally one day he gave it to me. He stopped being so damned trustworthy and became respectable. He stopped putting up with my bullsh!t and gave me what I really wanted, the full on terror of knowing he really was on top.
After a year of being with him what I learned is that while I may have had the power to break his heart, I wasn't ever going to break "him".
Well, that broke me.
People keep preaching "to be fair" -- were I employed to train a dominant man the first thing I would do is remove that word from his vocabulary. Somewhere along the way men got the message, "It's ok to be dominant, to be excellent, but you have to be fair."
I'm telling you right now guys, you do not have to be fair. In fact, being completely unfair is intriguing to submissive women. It gives us pause, and in that pause you deliver your knock out. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 5/30/2009 2:06:15 PM | Perhaps rather than dominant and submissive, she really means aggressive/assertive and passive/compliant.
I consider myself a sexually assertive/aggressive woman. But at times I prefer the man to be the aggressor or assertive one and I take the passive or compliant position, letting him take control.
This does not imply I want to get involved in S&M or B&D activities.
An assertive woman initiates sex. Would pull her man towards her , unbuckle his pants and take charge. One the converse an assertive man might be like the Rhett Butler type carrying Scarlet up the stairs to the bedroom and taking her. I like it both ways. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 10:44:17 AM |
Ok, I was in a cranky mood a few minutes ago. Sorry folks.
TUEZDAYE
I just got home from a weekend and read these threads in rapid succession---it was so cute how your first thread knocked me in the face and then the second one you were so sweet. I have had many such days myself--LOL Anyway, a big problem for me on this thread is semantics. Words like "dominant" and "submissive" carry all kinds of baggage. Here's my spin on all this:
Through all my varied life experiences, I have come to an understanding of what I believe is a natural order of things as it relates to masculinity and femininity which I think has been hugely twisted in modern culture leading to much gender confusion. I simply think it is beautiful when a man is present to his masculinity and a woman is present to her femininity because the two, will naturally compliment each other and be mutually satisfying--on an emotional as well as physical level. It deserves to be said although it is SO TERRIBLY SIMPLE: There is a DIFFERENCE between masculine and feminine and it goes beyond vaginas and penises. In other words, a discussion about being submissive requires that we scrape away the BS and get down to the core of what it means to be feminine and what it means to be masculine--the two are designed to co-exist together. I believe there is an essence to masculinity and femininity that is common to all people---just like all men have penises and all women have vaginas--and within these common essences there are strong emotional components that have to do with dominance and submissiveness. All that Bondage and kinky stuff--it's not about any of that unless individuals have a preference for that sort of thing.
Whether we are aware or not, SOMEBODY in the relationship is going to be submissive and SOMEBODY is going to be dominant. So, I'm saying, I want to be CONSCIOUS about it and create what I want--what WE want, together.
In this culture, many men have lost their sense of masculinity and women have been taught they must be sexy women who behave like men. It's all f.ucked up. Another problem is "submissive" has been taken to mean doormat and "Hey b.itch my soup is cold." I would not submit to such a man. I would tell him to go to hell.
For me, in a healthy relationship, a woman submits to a man who is putting HER NEEDS FIRST--that is what love is---putting the needs of the other first. When both people are putting the needs of the other first, both people are getting their needs met. So, being that we are intelligent women with healthy self- esteem, we will not submit to a jerk or a wuss. We will not be treated as doormats. We will not be abused, manipulated or shat upon.
Many think "submissive" is about d.icks and f.ucking and while those elements exist, I am sure you'll agree there are many non-masculine men and jerks with big d.icks who can f.uck. So, what is it about? It's about the core, the essence of the male and female animal. For me, "submissive" only works when he is putting my needs first, cherishing me, providing for me, loving my essence, and oooo how beautiful it is if a man and a woman are fortunate enough to create that together. For me, it's about creating a relationship where we talk about everything and agree on everything and it's all about satisfing each other's needs while being true to oneself. We create it--we define the boundaries according to what we want and need. If it's right, the woman is most truly herself and the man is most truly himself. It's harmonious and loving.
The more I write on this, the more I realize my views on this topic do not fit into a any popular box. I don't want to be in a "nilla" world or a "chocolate" world. I want to be in the natural world., in the natural order of things. I am just a feminine woman who adores the masculine male animal and appreciates the differences. I keep thinking about those dog collars and what I would do to him if anyone tried to put one on me---for me, that would be degradation and way outside my boundaries, yet I still consider myself submissive.
phew. That was difficult to write. peaceout. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 12:09:29 PM |
I keep thinking about those dog collars and what I would do to him if anyone tried to put one on me---for me, that would be degradation and way outside my boundaries, yet I still consider myself submissive.
With all due respect, soulfoodwanted, they aren't dog collars. They are collars our submissives seek and wear as an expression of their trust in us and in recognition of our devotion to them. If the time ever comes for you to wear one, it won't be because you are dominated into wearing it, but because you sought to wear it.
Being respected is one of the elements you have a right to expect in a relationship. Respect and degradation are mutually exclusive.
Any resemblance to "dog" collars is merely coincidental.
You might think of it as the D/s counterpart of a wedding ring, although, it seems that collars have more meaning than a lot of wedding rings in the so called vanilla world.
May I also suggest reading Katherina's speech to the shrews, regarding submission, in "Taming of the Shrew", by William Shakespeare. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 12:40:40 PM |
For me, in a healthy relationship, a woman submits to a man who is putting HER NEEDS FIRST--that is what love is---putting the needs of the other first.
This is a scriptural concept. The Bible says " women submit to your husband. " Now before getting your feathers ruffled, it goes on to say. Husband love your wife as Christ loved the church." Now as far as I am concerned, there is absolutely no danger in submitting to a man who is going to love me in this way. There is no greater love than the love Christ showed when he died on the cross. In a committed relationship I have no problem submitting to my significant other, and trusting he will take care of my needs by loving me in return.
I am a giver, and in many ways even though strong and independent in some ways I am submissive in the relationship, I put my partners needs above my own. I have found that if you make the right choice in a life partner, they will see this giving of yourself to them, and take care of you in return.
I do think though the OP is thinking of being sexually submissive, which is a different concept than this. | |
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ndulj
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Joined: 5/27/2007
Msg: 334 | |
| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 1:55:03 PM | Soulfood, I think you have just about nailed the essence behind this issue and the OP's original question in particular.
Being the submissive of the partnership may or may not be solely about the sexual part of the relationship. Likewise, bringing the concept of submission and the exchange of power into a relationship may or may not extend as deeply as some seem to think into the "lifestyle" of bdsm. It is subjective for each couple.
It has, in my mind, more to do with the level of trust and love present. For me to submit would mean that I had unabridged trust and was certain that I was deeply cherished in return.
One other note.
On this:
With all due respect, soulfoodwanted, they aren't dog collars. They are collars our submissives seek and wear as an expression of their trust in us and in recognition of our devotion to them. If the time ever comes for you to wear one, it won't be because you are dominated into wearing it, but because you sought to wear it.
Top Chuck got it right.
because you sought to wear it
just one woman's opinion | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 3:11:27 PM | | I agree that d/s has been kidnapped by the bdsm world with the focus completely on the physical. A relationship grounded in the elements of D/s is a pleasure circle. I trust appreciate, accept and love and receive back cherishing, understanding, respect and love. These elements work emotionally, intelligently and physically. Though any healthy submissive or dominant can live comfortably alone, the interaction with a mate using these elements deepens the entire relationship. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 5:28:41 PM |
With all due respect, soulfoodwanted, they aren't dog collars. They are collars our submissives seek and wear as an expression of their trust in us and in recognition of our devotion to them.
Wow, TopChuck--you use the "collars"? Or rather, your woman asks you to put one on her? You kinky divil you 
I hear you that it's not about degradation.......hmmm.........I really don't understand this. With honest sincerity, I am wondering: Surely there must be a better way to express her trust, devotion and respect than wearing a collar? Make your favorite dish?....do something special for you? Bring you a flower? I must be "nilla". I don't get it. I guess this collar stuff is "over my head" hahahahaha....(no disrespect intended there)................sir  | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 5:59:00 PM |
I agree that d/s has been kidnapped by the bdsm world with the focus completely on the physical................ Though any healthy submissive or dominant can live comfortably alone, the interaction with a mate using these elements deepens the entire relationship.
Well said Subrina1! Yes, the culture we live in places huge emphasis on the sexual level of our beings while practically ignoring the emotional. And when the emotional is addressed, as it pertains specifically to male and female gender roles, the messages are screwed up, I think. I still challenge people to critique TV commercials with this in mind. Just one small aspect of cultural molding, true, but it is amazing to see how men are portrayed as fragile and dependent on women and even children.
So there is a big lapse which might explain why the bdsm world is so pervasive and few people talk about the emotional end of it. (TopChuck, I think, is one of the few that understands the emotional elements.) Better to think of ourselves holistically, body and 'SOUL" (little plug there--lol) The differences between masculine and feminine include the physical/sexual and include also the emotional/spiritual. | |
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ndulj
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Joined: 5/27/2007
Msg: 339 | |
| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 7:23:45 PM | To look at the D/s in another light...
go back in time and look at the Donna Reed Show.
there was no sexuality exhibited in that show (yes i know it was TV. I'm just using it as an example)
Donna deferred in all things to her husband. She trusted his decisions to be in her best interest. Yes she 'served' him. Did she have power, Hell yes. She trusted him enough, however, to put her power in his care.He made his decisions based on what was best for the family unit, Donna being the central part of that unit.
Deferring to her husband , IS the exchange of power. In today's modern world we may do it a bit differently, but it is basically the same thing. Today we are more sexually open so, yes, that becomes apart of the paradigm.
Again, just one woman's opinion | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/1/2009 11:23:29 PM |
I was told yesterday that "my eyes say that I'm a sub"
Looking at your pic, your eyes tell me I'd want you on my team if there was a fight. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/2/2009 3:30:42 AM | I don't like that it sounds more like wife beating, D&S works for some couples but not for all and it isn't all about S&M. When I spank a lady it is for play and because she asked me to, and she always thanks me afterwards.
<div class="quote">
Any man in his own right will beat a woman to a pulp. That is Domination. Period. So doesn't matter what you 'think' you are, you aren't. And you never will Dominate any man, unless it's half a man with a broken spirit or a weak frame. Men as a race? Forget it. You are subdued, you will be subdued and if you have something to prove? Go out and rule and let's see just how Dominate you are. Women will never rule the earth. And the ruler? Is the Dominate.
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/2/2009 5:55:29 AM | | Well it would depend on the girl some girls like to be the dominate and take the lead. Most girls like to be submissive in my opinion. I think men like submissive girls because they are willing to go to any extent to please them. They also like the power they have. I think the girls like to be submissive because it makes them feel helpless. It's giving the man thier trust. Ie.choking a girl or tieing her up. Her life is dependant on him he has the power. Men also dont mind a girl taking the lead every now and then. Guys like both. Switch it up in the bedroom :) | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/2/2009 7:28:01 AM | | I personally like a woman that can lay it on me, but I also like a woman that wants to be had as well. These rolls I believe should be shared by both parties. I could not stand a submissive woman all the time, it would get old, I like to know what she is thinking and feeling. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/2/2009 9:20:47 AM |
I think the girls like to be submissive because it makes them feel helpless.
chplhilnate
My idea is that it's not that she enjoys feeling helpless but that she enjoys being submissive because it is in her nature, her essence, to be submissive to the man who is loving her. I don't think it is about helplessness at all, I think it's about emotional gratification that comes from being in touch with her essence. Personally, I despise the feeling of helplessness but I wholeheartedly enjoy being submissive to a man is truly loving me.
I personally like a woman that can lay it on me, but I also like a woman that wants to be had as well. These rolls I believe should be shared by both parties. I could not stand a submissive woman all the time, it would get old, I like to know what she is thinking and feeling.
If you were cherishing, protecting and loving her (masculine/dominant) and she is trusting, respecting and loving you (feminine/submissive) , all you'd have to do is say: "Baby, lay it on me"---and she would do what pleases you and she would enjoy doing what pleases you. " Laying it on him"---lots of fun and really important part of things.
Again, we can think outside the box---man and woman who love each other can create it the way they want it. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/3/2009 5:23:00 AM |
Any man in his own right will beat a woman to a pulp. That is Domination. Period. So doesn't matter what you 'think' you are, you aren't. And you never will Dominate any man, unless it's half a man with a broken spirit or a weak frame. Men as a race? Forget it. You are subdued, you will be subdued and if you have something to prove? Go out and rule and let's see just how Dominate you are. Women will never rule the earth. And the ruler? Is the Dominate.
You know, I honestly didn't think it was possible for anyone to be this ignorant...but so far you DOMINATE in this area. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/3/2009 5:24:29 AM | I can think of a few men around here who could stand to have the "stupid" whipped out of them.
Thankfully, I'm not the woman for the job.
There wouldn't be anything left of him if I was. | |
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ndulj
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Joined: 5/27/2007
Msg: 349 | |
| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/3/2009 8:59:41 AM |
Dominate: 1.) Be in control (2.) Have dominance or the power to DEFEAT over.
Any man in his own right will beat a woman to a pulp
One does not equal the other. Having the power to be in control and
beat a woman to a pulp
are not even close to the same thing.
You are one scary psychotic. I sincerely hope you stay on your meds, for the sake of society at large.
You keep your definition and I'll keep mine, thank you very much. | |
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| Do men really like submissive women?
Posted: 6/3/2009 9:18:12 AM | My idea is that it's not that she enjoys feeling helpless but that she enjoys being submissive because it is in her nature, her essence, to be submissive to the man who is loving her. I don't think it is about helplessness at all, I think it's about emotional gratification that comes from being in touch with her essence. Personally, I despise the feeling of helplessness but I wholeheartedly enjoy being submissive to a man is truly loving me.
I heard a theory that Alpha's have to be in control at work and when they get home at night they are tired of all their responsibilies, and want someone else to control them. So one often has the experience of controlling a person in a well paying responsible job like an attorney. We Beta's rule!!! | |
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