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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/6/2008 9:51:30 PM |
IT'S OFFICIAL!!!
Both Tim Russert AND Chris Matthews have declared that the race is "OVER." The senator from NY is toast; and the senator from IL is the Democratic nominee!
I am glad Chris Matthews in charge....haha
Too bad Hillary doesn't quit. ,,,,
I would like to hear the reaction in Puerto Rico... 2.5 million voters...
too bad she didn't stop after Feb... Too many new registered voters.
it was an interesting, exciting, epic and -- at times -- both painful and brutal war between two very worthy and capable candidates, reminiscent of the titan battles of the Greeks and Romans, Balboa and Creed, Ali and Frazier
You left out the part about Cheater, Thief, and Murder..... | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 2:06:49 AM | Both Tim Russert and Chris Matthews have always been way over the top in favor of Obama. Russert's interview of Obama on Meet the Press on Sunday wasn't investigative journalism. It was a campaign commercial:
'Meet the Press' transcript for May 4, 2008.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24445166/
And here's Chris Matthews about Obama:
Chris Matthews: "I Felt This Thrill Going Up My Leg" As Obama Spoke.
Huffington Post | February 13, 2008 11:53 AM
"Last night during MSNBC's Potomac Primary coverage, Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann were discussing Barack Obama's speech. Matthews — who, in the past, has both cried over an Obama speech and compared him to Jesus — described exactly what happens to him when Obama speaks:
"I have to tell you, you know, it's part of reporting this case, this election, the feeling most people get when they hear Barack Obama's speech. My, I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/chris-matthews-i-felt-t_n_86449.html
Chris Matthews Gushes: "Obama Comes Along, And...This Is The New Testament"
New York Observer | Felix Gillette | February 6, 2008 08:20 AM
"I've been following politics since I was about 5," said Mr. Matthews. "I've never seen anything like this. This is bigger than Kennedy. [Obama] comes along, and he seems to have the answers. This is the New Testament. This is surprising."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/06/chris-matthews-gushes-o_n_85265.html
Yeah, Matthews, good job in maintaining your journalistic integrity.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 6:35:09 AM | To be honest, I never felt anything going up my leg when Obama spoke. 
You can certainly like a candidate, and still be impartial when your job requires it. It's not easy, but it IS possible. Just on the transcript, without actually seeing the tape, I don't get the impression he was fawning over Obama. ( Seeing the tape might be a different story, I admit).
Let's turn the OP's question around, just for a moment. It's pretty clear that Hillary HAS lost, unless the rules get changed - or unless a backroom deal seals it.
So let's do something here.
Let's ask the same question, from the other side.
What could Hillary have done , to avoid losing ?
Sure, it's Monday morning quarterbacking, and it changes nothing. But I think we can perhaps see how she might have done things in a far better way, and gained far more.
With that in mind, let's ask some questions of ourselves of what makes a good plan. It's the week before the primaries start, and Hillary is sitting there pondering the future. Remember, she's been in the political scene for a long time.
So how does she approach this ?
The first thing I would have done is called a meeting of her, Obama, and Edwards. As the senior statesman of the group, that should be her role. They may refuse, but then again they may not.
It's worth a try.
So they are all sitting around that table, alone, one night.
Here's what I would have said:
" OK, we are about to enter a very critical election for our party - and for our nation. It's our responsibility to do what's best for the nation, and for our party, in that order. We can't let the Republicans win this one, and if they do all of us lose.
What I am suggesting here is that we agree to do some things during the primaries, things that will improve our chances as a party to win in November. If you all agree with me, let's do this right.
We will agree to run on our respective platforms, as we see them. We will agree to place our ideas in front of the American people, and we will agree to differ. When we differ, this isn't a bad thing. It's "game on" as far as that's concerned - no holds barred.
Think of it like a poll, and a way to measure the pulse of the nation, to see which way it wants to go. Each of us has strengths, and each of us has weaknesses. Let's let the voters decide those during this primary.
What we ALSO agree on is not to attack one another on ANY personal level. It's policy only, and nothing else. We agree to respect one another, and America's been exposed to this type of campaign for so long that it's been divided and turned off the entire idea of politics.
That's bad for the country, it's bad for the party, and it's bad for us.
No one knows this better than I do, and it's time to lead and not follow.
Here's a pledge I wrote, that states exactly this, in detail, about how important we feel this issue is. We can discuss it, and then change it where necessary to get agreement. Once that is done, we ALL sign it - and honor it.
Tomorrow morning, we call a group press conference, and explain the reasons why we may be divided in our platforms , but united in our desire to change modern American politics to what it used to be - and what it must be.
Any attack on any of us from the outside, using these tactics against us, will be responded to by ALL of us. We will no longer accept this, because America can no longer accept this.
That's the reason for our meeting tonight.
Now, off the record, let's discuss something else. Let's discuss how we can accomplish a victory for America, a victory for the party, and a victory for all three of us.
I suggest the following private , unwritten agreement, between us.
We run this primary as a means of deciding how we split the opportunity we are offered here. However leads at the end will be the nominee, if the vote exceeds _____ delegates when we arrive at the convention. Again, our focus is on beating the Republican candidate first, and each other second. We must never lose that focus.
Whoever is second will be Vice-President, no questions.
The third place person will be offered an important Cabinet position, which will depend on two things : his qualifications for the post , and his desire to accept it.
From the delegates we get, we can then propose a plan of action (combining all our platforms) to make the ONE platform that unifies all of us.
So gentlemen, let's talk. "
Now, let's play the campaign back, and imagine she managed to get agreement with all three.
The campaign runs without any personal attacks, and let's say Obama is where he is today, or possibly even stronger. Hillary is still second, but she has none of the negative press attached to her that she currently has.
When someone tries to attack one of them, like Obama, they all respond.
When the Muslim question comes up, instead of saying "No, to the best of my knowledge..." , Hillary says " No. He's not Muslim, and even if he was....a Muslim can be an American, as can anyone of any other religion. "
Guess what ?
You may get a lot more votes, simply for thinking of the long term plan.
Now, you get to the convention, and Hillary stands up and says that she wants what is best for the country. We must be united, all of us.
And so I give my total support to Obama (assuming those _____ votes make him the leader) .
Hillary's "sacrifice" stuns the nation. Her devotion to the country and party are obvious to all there, with a stirring speech that hammers McCain left right and center on his policies.
It's one of those speeches that will wind up being studied for years, for it's importance.
Edwards get up, and does the same.
Finally, Obama get's up and knocks it out of the house like Babe Ruth.
He talks about the sacrifice of all Americans, about this "change" in America. About how this has always been America's greatest strength, and what it has lacked for so long.
He speaks about Hillary and Edwards in warm respectful tones, and how this campaign has shown him that people CAN work together - and respectfully disagree. He talks about that pledge they all signed, and how it was the key to all of this.
He announces that, because of her experience in the White House, and her policies ( a little more right than his) , that she is the only possible choice for his Vice President. He'd be a fool to leave her out of this important task ahead. She's earned his respect, and her differences with him on issues have made him aware of why we need to broaden our base - for the good of the nation.
The crowd goes wild, Hillary is seen in a close up with a broad smile.....and a tear....applauding him.
And then he announces that Edwards will be Attorney General, because he is the only person fit for that job.
Edwards supporters go nuts....
He waves both of them up onto the stage, they all embrace, and it's time to cue the cameras to cut to commercial.....after a four minute silent pan across the hall, as you superimpose the three of them arm in arm.
Now, replace the candidates names , with whoever wins in the primaries. It doesn't have to be Obama as nominee.
Now McCain has nowhere to go.
He can't do the same thing, because he HAS no competition.
He also knows he's facing three strong politicians, all now experienced in campaigning, who will spread out across the nation to spread their message - united.
How could Hillary have won ?
Had she done that at the start, everyone would have won - including her.
She'd of had at least the vice-presidency as a given - and possibly the presidency itself. Her ideas would have been integrated into action. | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 7:17:34 AM | All we have left to vote for now is John McCain.
I wouldn't care if Obama made Hillary Vice President, John Edwards Secretary of States, and Al Gore Secretary of Defense.
It's the President who runs the country, and Obama doesn't have the experience, nor is he fit morally to hold the post. We've sunk way, way down from getting a blow job in the Oval Office if we elect this guy as President. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 7:42:58 AM | She has not have as many delegates or popular votes. Party delegates won't have any influence in a national election. Nor necessarily will popular votes.
90% of a total population is a large number when in the beginning she had over 50% of that population. I'm not certain an energized African American vote will necessarily turn the Electoral College upside down. It's possible some southern states might change from red to blue, but it would have to offset losing Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and other blue states where McCain is a more appealing candidate to the general constituency than is Obama.
It was a good clean campaign now it is a RACE WAR! I really don't sense this at all, has any Obama opponent made one single solitary mudslinging racial comment about Obama? I haven't heard anything. Please educate me if I missed something. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:01:46 AM |
has any Obama opponent made one single solitary mudslinging racial comment about Obama?
I think things have been implied or leading remarks made, but mostly insinuations by the MSM. Ferraro used poor wording to state an observation but tiny missteps in statements are always exponentially magnified in this process. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:06:40 AM |
Ferraro used poor wording to state an observation but tiny missteps in statements are always exponentially magnified in this process. Last time I checked, Geraldine Ferraro's name didn't appear on any line in a Democratic state primary or caucus ballot. Please correct me if I'm wrong. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:15:29 AM | I guess if you consider that campaign staff, or former campaign staff, is not "opponent" then you might have a point.
It's the campaigns that inflame or not, not simply the direct candidate themselves. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:23:33 AM |
has any Obama opponent made one single solitary mudslinging racial comment about Obama?
Depends on your definition.... I'd say yes.
"Racial" in a broad sense, when placed in the proper context - although not a direct comment on race.
STEVE KROFT: You don't believe that Senator Obama's a Muslim?
HILLARY CLINTON: Of course not. I mean that's, you know, that, there is no basis for that. You know, I take him on the basis of what he says, and, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that.
KROFT: You said you take Sen. Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim...
CLINTON: Right, right..
KROFT: …you don't believe that he's a Muslim.
CLINTON: No! No! Why would I? There's nothing to base that on. As far as I know.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/clinton-says-ob.html
As far as I know ? ( WINK)
They've been GREAT at researching him down to his grade school essays, but on this one point.........hey....we gotta take him at his word.....(WINK) | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:27:00 AM | | I don't see why we should be quizzing Hillary Clinton regarding how intimate her knowledge is of Obama's upbringing. What's that have to do with anything? Was Obama asked a series of senseless questions regarding his knowledge of Hillary Clinton's upbringing? I can't see the relevance here, I don't see any racially-charged invective here, you'll need to spin this one better. | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:32:22 AM |
What could Hillary have done , to avoid losing ?
Good question, Montreal Guy.
If we look at some of the things we've come up with on the thread, I think the following are part of the picture:
Hillary should have planned for a long primary process instead of assuming she would be the nominee by default.
Hillary should have shown respect for all of her opponents instead of acting like the heir-apparent. Sarcastically asking for a pillow for her opponent during a televised debate didn't come across as funny and lacked class. Telling an opponent like a prim schoolmarm that "This is why it's hard discussing these things with you, Barack!" is a ridiculous attitude. It's one of the first things you learn in organized sports (which may be why Hillary didn't learn it)---take your opponent(s) seriously and respect their abilities.
Hillary should have relied on candor and honesty. No Bosnia air-strike BS. No gas-tax holiday gimmicks. No bellicose threats to obliterate whole countries.
Hillary should have emphasized her own record instead of implying she was a co-president with Bill. It's not believable, especially since Hillary wasn't willing to take partial responsibility for Bill's failures along with credit for his successes. The whole "experience" angle didn't work for her because McCain is really the only "experience" candidate.
The calls are increasing for Hillary to drop out. As it has been for some time, it's just an exercise in humiliation. Nothing good can come from Hillary staying in the race. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:33:38 AM | That's the point. It has become racially polarized even without intense involvement by the candidates but by the MSM playing up perceptions.
Maybe Hillary's "as far as I know" was to allow the MSM to continue perpetuating it. Maybe she meant nothing by it at all except just "as far as I know". | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:39:59 AM |
I don't see why we should be quizzing Hillary Clinton regarding how intimate her knowledge is of Obama's upbringing. What's that have to do with anything?
It has EVERYTHING to do with anything.
It's shows TWO problems.
They have researched this guy up and down, on that you can bet your bottom dollar. Any "doubt" that they had could have been easily verified.
In fact, that WAS done by others, and easily discovered to be a false accusation.
TWO, it shows that "Muslim" (wink) is a problem, when it shouldn't be. So Muslims can't be President, is the obvious statement being approved here.
Land of the free , right ? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:41:59 AM | Sorry, MG. I've got to agree with Itechman and Bikeman on this one. Why would anyone publicly defend their opponent's personal beliefs and intentions? How could she ever know for sure and vouch for what her opponent believes? Hillary shouldn't be expected to be Obama's apologist, any more than Obama should be Hillary's. It was a ridiculous, out of line question. Kroft was just being a tool and trying to provoke a "sound bite" type of response.
Hillary has shown plenty of disrespect to Obama and others, but not that particular time. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:44:57 AM | She should have said, and so what is your point ?
" That an American Muslim is somehow less of a person than any other American ?
This job's about experience and capacity to do the job (WINK) , and not their religion. "
( PHEW.....and if they ask me about the Fellowship......I'm CLEAR ! ) | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:54:43 AM |
She should have said, and so what is your point ? Um, she's misspoken before, Obama has misspoken as well; I'm still missing how Hillary's lack of expression of knowledge when asked a pointed question regarding Obama's upbringing is indicative of Hillary starting a "race war". | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 9:10:48 AM | | The Obama supporters have made it a point to allege race tactics used by the opposition...in America there is a hyper sensitivity to being perceived as racist, therefore Obama is capitalizing on it..one of the most damaging things that can happen to a politician,actor, comedian or radio host is to have something you say be perceived as racist even if it really isnt...white people in America are Afraid ..being Politically incorrect is uaacceptable by the powers that be..were it not for the Liberals control of the media outlets Obama would not be in the position he now finds himself... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 9:12:58 AM | .
PHEW.....and if they ask me about the Fellowship......I'm CLEAR ! )
They should have ask Obama about Clinton's relationship with the Fellowship and...
or is Clinton a methodist?? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:27:42 AM |
were it not for the Liberals control of the media outlets
LOL!!!!!!!!! The Liberal Media!!! Oh... stop... sssSTOP! haheheheha I can't take it!! Somebody... make him stop!!!
You mean the liberal media that's been a mouthpiece for Bush, the Neocons and the war for the past 7 years? THAT 'liberal' media?
The horse isn't even good for hamburger meat any longer... stop beating the poor dead thing already.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 11:46:13 AM |
To be honest, I never felt anything going up my leg when Obama spoke.
Trust me MG, I'm glad enough of that.
You need to watch the link for the video to see what I mean about the Russert interview:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24445166/page/4/
But here's one part of the interview from the transcript:
''MR. RUSSERT: We're going to take a quick break and come back and talk about some foreign and defense policy issues. More of our conversation with Barack Obama, Democratic candidate for president. We're live from Indianapolis, Indiana, the site of Tuesday's primary.''
Oh, that's what Russert was having, just a ''conversation''. Not investigative journalism, but just a ''conversation''.
I watched him during his interviews before. He was rough on Clinton officials but also rough on Bush officials as well. But with the interview with Barack, he's just having a ''conversation''. Thanks for telling us that Russert so we can know what it really was.
What the hell was[/] that? I have to watch FoxNews now to get a fair treatment of a democraric candidate?
And by fair notice I don't mean ''softball''. That's what Obama wants and he got it with Russert. Hillary went up against the big bad wolf of Bill O'Reilly on FoxNews - and won.
Now let's see Obama do it. Or is he afraid not only of debates but tough interviewers?
Maybe Obama would be most comfortable with an ambassadorship to one of our allies. Because then he would only have to have 'conversations' with people who basically already agree him. He wouldn't have to deal with the wolves that are out there who only wish to do us harm.
Amusing. Obama won his first contest for public office by having his lawyers contest and get thrown out the support signatures collected by his opponents. He won his Senate seat because two of his strongest opponents had to drop out when embarassing divorce details were ''leaked'' - easy as pie!
Do we really want him winning the democratic nomination because two of the most populous states in the country will go uncounted?
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 1:04:29 PM |
Do we really want him winning the democratic nomination because two of the most populous states in the country will go uncounted?
Hillary trails him in the popular vote and the pledged delegate count even when the results from Michigan and Florida are included. The point is that individual state legislatures should follow the rules (if they want to partake in the bipartisan system and be counted) and should be penalized when they don't. It's up to the citizens in those states to vote out and get rid of state legislators who stupidly schedule primaries in conflict with agreed-upon rules. 48 states managed to follow the rules and avoid problems---that ought to mean something.
Most people don't want a president who is as cavalier about bending or breaking agreements as Hillary seems to be. | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 1:12:15 PM | Again with FL and MI... Two percentages in both states are very low.
The percentage of the voting population that knew what their state leaders were doing and the consequences.
The percentage of those who did that bothered to formally complain to their leaders.
Their time to have demanded to be heard was in the beginning. Their time for someone to have fought for them was in the beginning.
It sucks. It really does. It could have been avoided but a significant chunk of the responsibility goes to those voters themselves that don't keep themselves abreast of their leader's affairs. We knew what was going on before it was decided. | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 1:22:17 PM | Well, in defense of Michiganders, I have to chime in here. We kind of knew what was going on, and you know I"m one of the ones who pays attention to this stuff. We kind of knew what was going on, but it was kind of like a deer in the headlights effect. If I remember correctly, they said they would be holding the primary early, but that we could still vote. That's the news I heard. I would have thought that 'we can still vote' means that it's a fair contest, and that our votes will actually count. I might be wrong on this part, but I don't think we had time to put up much of a fight.
For me, at least, it wasn't until I opened my folder that I found out Edwards and Obama were not on the ballot. When I talked to someone at work about it the next day, she said she heard that they wouldn't be, so she didn't go. I think that happened with a lot of the people who did hear the correct information.
And don't think I'm not upset because my vote is in the crapper. But I'd rather leave it in the crapper than to cost my state another $10 million for a re-do. | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 1:55:56 PM | .
Your state was offered a no charge revote by mail.... Someone refused to support it.... I heard Carvel say on TV offer to write the check....
You just want Obama to win..... | |
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| Why has Hillary lost?
Posted: 5/7/2008 2:08:06 PM | We kind of knew what was going on, but it was kind of like a deer in the headlights effect.
I can see that. A disbelief that those entrusted could really allow that to happen.
I have never received any return to my letters to Rod Blagojevich to step down, so I'm not sure writing your congressmen would have helped either.
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