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 Author Thread: Why is Hillary losing? [Thread Closed]
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 951
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How is Hillary still going with that stake through her heart?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:24:11 PM
I have friends in Iran....oh.. my goodness... will I be labeled a terrorists for this.... spoke with them. Let me start way back. I went to college at the age of 40 and they are friends I made there,... a well known International University... and they lived in fear of telling others where exactly they were from. They would say Saudi Arabia, etc.

Anyway... the 'street word' is that the radical Islamics absolutely are pulling for Obama to win. Doesn't mean it's saying Obama is 'their man' to use a phrase. It just means what I heard. Nothing more or less. Might be a tad exaggerated/emphasized... but, I trust my friends as sources.

Now... to add to it... I have a very good friend who is an Orthodox Jew living in Israel. He has the typical 10 kids, etc. One just recently got married and another made him a grandfather again. During our conversations... we agree to disagree pleasantly. He says Christians should only obey the laws as laid down to Abraham by God and quit trying to put up the front of we should obey the constraints as put forth in the Torah. Too many of us... meaning all Nations... are trying to do that PC thing... political correctness... and abide by the same religious laws that the Orthodox Jews do. The Orthodox Jews actually resent us for this. The Messianic Jews though are for us...since they are those of actual Jewish lineage who believe in Christ as the Messiah.

Thing is... THIS election year is being closely followed..more so than ever ever before by both Arabic Nations and Israel. Interesting indeed!
 itechman42

Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 952
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How is Hillary still going with that stake through her heart?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:32:40 PM

is that the radical Islamics absolutely are pulling for Obama to win.


Why wouldn't they? If they think they get a free pass, they don't know that anymore than those here who assume the same. Those who run a couple of the convenience stores here like him too because they feel he's not the "typical arrogant murderer". They feel that McCain and Clinton are.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 953
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:42:30 PM
^^^ whatever....

....at this point i think she's holding out for a promise from Obama for some sort of position. i really doubt he'd pick her as vp but i could see her as secretary of state.....no, here is what would buy her off.... a supreme court nomination. Has there ever been an ex senator made a member of the supreme court?

...and messianic jews quite often have zero Jewish blood. one of my uncles is a Messianic Rabbi and the one time I went to his synagog (which was a complete riot) I didn't see anybody that even looked Jewish except him and his wife.
 itechman42

Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 954
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:45:40 PM
I don't know but I highly doubt someone whose never served as a judge would be appointed.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 955
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:52:26 PM

Experience needed? The long history of nonjudge justices.
Nearly half of justices had no prior experience on the bench.
By Warren Richey | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
WASHINGTON – John Marshall is widely revered as "the great Chief Justice," but before joining the Supreme Court in 1801 he had never served a day in judicial robes and lost the only case he argued at the high court.

Earl Warren had worked for 18 years as a prosecutor and was three times elected governor of California. But he had no prior judicial experience. Nor did William Rehnquist, Felix Frankfurter, and Louis Brandeis.

The nomination of White House counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court has sparked debate over her qualifications. Does she have the intellectual heft and constitutional dexterity necessary for the job? And how does her experience compare to the résumés and stature of prior justices?

"People are still learning about Harriet Miers. Hers was not a name that quickly came off everybody's lips when people [asked] who are the most qualified people for the court," says David Yalof, a political science professor and expert on Supreme Court nominations at the University of Connecticut.

But Professor Yalof adds, "The issue has never been most qualified, the issue is qualified."

Who is qualified to sit on the Supreme Court is a determination made on a nominee by nominee basis by at least 51 US senators. There are no set rules for qualification. Although every past justice has been a lawyer, 41 of the 109 justices had no prior judicial experience.

But many of the justices who lacked hands-on experience as a jurist nonetheless had achieved a high level of accomplishment and stature as intellectual or political leaders prior to their nominations.

"Judicial experience is not a prerequisite, but what you look for in place of judicial experience is distinguished experience as a law professor or public official, and Miers really doesn't have either of those two," says Michael Comiskey, a political science professor at Penn State University at Fayette.

One key consideration, scholars say, is the goal of the nominating president.

"She clearly doesn't have the kind of symbolic significance that presidents are sometimes going for in choosing justices - those who you put on the bench because you expect them to be great justices," says Keith Whittington, a politics professor at Princeton University and visiting professor at the University of Texas at Austin.

President Reagan tried it, unsuccessfully, with the nomination of Robert Bork and succeeded with Justice Antonin Scalia, he says. "Earlier in the century Oliver Wendell Holmes was in that mold. Louis Brandeis was in that mold," Professor Whittington says.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1007/p01s03-usju.html
 itechman42

Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 956
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:18:52 AM
Wow. Almost half. I did not know that. Not that I thought it was a requirement, but I sure considered that it would have been most prudent for that to have been the case.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 957
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:27:51 AM

s that the radical Islamics absolutely are pulling for Obama to win.


When even they can see that Hillary has lost this, it's not a good sign.

I hear that the Pentagon now has released a covert program over there, to target any Iraqi with an "Obama 08" button or T-Shirt as a confirmed terrorist.
 Bluesman2008

Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 958
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:47:27 AM

Just remember, in the words of Hillary Rodham Clinton, "the last man standing .....may just be a woman".


That's the bombshell? Obama's a transexual? Omigod
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 959
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:25:01 AM
An update.


The superdelegate movement toward Mr. Obama, of Illinois — giving him a net gain of six on Friday alone, with more expected — increased the pressure on Mrs. Clinton, of New York, to at least refrain from divisive remarks, particularly after her comments on Wednesday that lower-income white voters would not support Mr. Obama if he became the Democratic nominee. Aides now say she regrets the comments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/10/us/politics/10clinton.html?ref=politics


Well, she misspoke again. Must have been "late at night." ( Not so late that it would interfere with any 3 am phone calls, let's be very clear about that. 3 am would be EARLY. )


Clinton advisers say attacks on Mr. Obama are no longer enough to change the momentum or the outcome of the nomination race. So continuing to attack him on the campaign trail, at this point, would probably inflict more long-term harm on Mrs. Clinton than on Mr. Obama, her advisers said.


Wow.....they FINALLY got it. A day late, and millions of dollars short.


The Obama camp has even more reason than just that big score to celebrate with a special happy hour -- according to both the New York Times and ABC News, Obama has now overtaken Clinton and leads her in the two outlets' superdelegate tallies. (A lot of the big media outlets have their own unique tallies; in some, Clinton still leads or is tied with Obama.)

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/?last_story=/politics/war_room/
2008/05/09/obama_superdelegates/
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 960
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:15:50 AM

We're wasting our collective breath at this point. The press is now calling Obama "the presumptive nominee".
That's probably because most of them haven't really looked at the survey percentages and delegates for the remaining states, or considered what would and should happen to the total delegate and popular vote counts if Florida and Michigan were factored in.
There is also the fact that some media outlets such as CNN and truly embarrassingly MSNBC are so clearly favoring Obama over Hillary.


Oh yes, you're right, Philly. Those news folks don't look at polls and all that junk before they start reporting them. lol The news channels CNN and MSNBC are not the ones conducting the polls, they are just reporting them.
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 961
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:41:41 AM
You' re right that Hillary didn't say it in the right way. What she should have said is that Obama is a candidate that is far to the left of the mainstream and is losing miserably the low middle class and working class white voters that the democratic party needs to win in November. And she should have said that has always been the case with presidential candidates regarded as too liberal by this block of voters, irrespective of who that candidate happens to be. And she should have said this is a well known fact among political observers.
Then the media outlets, at least the responsible ones, would have been inclined to put on presidential election experts who would have confirmed that what she said is true about this election and about the previous presidential elections.

PhillyFellow
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 962
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Why is Hillary Losing?
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:09:12 AM

When even they can see that Hillary has lost this, it's not a good sign.


Either that or they have more concrete reasons for believing that Obama would be more friendly towards them:

Obama Adviser Leaves Campaign After Speaking With Hamas.
by FOXNews.com
Friday, May 9, 2008
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/09/report-obama-adviser-ousted-after-speaking-with-hamas/

What was it that Obama's spiritual advisor for 20 years said 4 days after 3,000 Americans were killed on 9/11? Something about there being no moral difference between Al-Qaeda and the United States?

Perhaps terrorist organizations in general should be of the opinion that Obama would be more friendly towards them.

PhillyFellow
 seattlerain1

Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 963
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How is Hillary still going with that stake through her heart?
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:11:48 AM
JEDI GIRL SAID:
I have friends in Iran....oh.. my goodness... will I be labeled a terrorists for this.... spoke with them. Let me start way back. I went to college at the age of 40 and they are friends I made there,... a well known International University... and they lived in fear of telling others where exactly they were from. They would say Saudi Arabia, etc.

Anyway... the 'street word' is that the radical Islamics absolutely are pulling for Obama to win. Doesn't mean it's saying Obama is 'their man' to use a phrase. It just means what I heard. Nothing more or less. Might be a tad exaggerated/emphasized... but, I trust my friends as sources.

You SPOKE TO THEM? I hope you're never hoping to fly in THIS country again, TerrorGirl. :-)

I feel I was incredibly lucky to have lived in Tehran, Iran (right before the revolution) and have a special place in my heart for its people... there Government is another story, but then again, OUR government is another story too. Iranians are no more 'terrorists' than Iraqis are/were. Heck, there are more potential home-grown terrorists living in the back country of MONTANA just waiting for their moment.

I think Obama can be a bridge. He can be a bridge between black and white America; he can be a bridge between America and the (few) Muslims who hate us, and he can be a bridge to many of our "enemies" around the world... It takes Guts to say that America will TALK with our enemies. There's a difference between 'talking with enemies 'and 'negotiating with terrorists'. I'm a firm believer that no one should EVER negotiate under threat (such as kidnapping), but many of our "enemies" simply feel powerless and ignored. If we TALK with them, then they have an option other than guerrilla warfare.

FYI: Suicide Bombers don't WANT to die... most feel they just have no other option.

Clinton lost the race months ago, but in my opinion, she signed her letter of resignation when she said she'd OBLITERATE Iran... If I had only READ that quote instead of hearing it with my own ears, I would have bet my life that it was BUSH shooting off at the mouth again (presuming he could pronounce 'obliterate' of course).

James, Seattle(more-or-less), WAshington, USA, Earth
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 964
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How is Hillary still going with that stake through her heart?
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:23:17 AM

Clinton lost the race months ago, but in my opinion, she signed her letter of resignation when she said she'd OBLITERATE Iran... If I had only READ that quote instead of hearing it with my own ears, I would have bet my life that it was a quote from BUSH. (presuming he could pronounce 'obliterate')


After she said this in response to a question about Iran attacking Israel with NUCLEAR weapons polls showed she led McCain in the general election by 9 points while Obama was only statistical tied with McCain.
Perhaps the large block of centrist to conservative voters in the general electorate wanted a president who took a strong stance against international terrorism.

A Tantalizing Look at Iran’s Nuclear Program.
By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: April 29, 2008
"American intelligence agencies say the earliest Iran could make a nuclear weapon is 2009, but consider 2010 to 2015 a more likely time frame. Iran insists it wants to make only reactor fuel for producing electricity."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/science/29nuke.html

PhillyFellow
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 965
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How is Hillary still going with that stake through her heart?
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:02:36 AM

in response to a question about Iran attacking Israel with NUCLEAR weapons


Need to do some more homework Phil, she's also on the record for stating essentially the same thing WITHOUT an attack with those weapons.


Clinton told some 1,700 AIPAC supporters that the US must take any step to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.

"U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal: We cannot, we should not, we must not permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons," she said. "In dealing with this threat ... no option can be taken off the table."

"To deny the Holocaust places Iran's leadership in company with the most despicable bigots and historical revisionists," she added. Clinton excoriated the Iranian administration's "pro-terrorist, anti-American, anti-Israeli rhetoric."

"We need to use every tool at our disposal, including diplomatic and economic in addition to the threat and use of military force," she added.


Read it again......NO OPTION can be taken off the table - and it's in reference to building or acquiring weapons, not launching them.

For someone that's an advocate of your candidate, a strong one, you "overlooked" that remark - and it's no accident, because it's been posted here before for consideration.

All this banging of the war drum, and the CIA's own reports say there's no Iranian program in place, nor high probability of a weapon being produced.


A new assessment by American intelligence agencies made public Monday concludes that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 and that the program remains on hold, contradicting an assessment two years ago that Tehran was working inexorably toward building a bomb.

The assessment, a National Intelligence Estimate that represents the consensus view of all 16 American spy agencies, states that Tehran is most likely keeping its options open with respect to building a weapon, but that intelligence agencies "do not know whether it currently intends to develop nuclear weapons."

Iran is continuing to produce enriched uranium, the report says, a program that the Tehran government has said is designed for civilian purposes. The new estimate says that the enrichment program could still provide Iran with enough raw material to produce a nuclear weapon sometime by the middle of next decade, a timetable essentially unchanged from previous estimates.

But the new estimate declares with "high confidence" that a military-run Iranian program intended to transform that raw material into a nuclear weapon has been shut down since 2003, and also says with high confidence that the halt "was directed primarily in response to increasing international scrutiny and pressure."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/03/america/cia.php


Now, even if that ISN'T the case, and the intelligence service is wrong - another problem.

To hit those centrifuges, you have to use bunker busting nukes. They are buried deep, and scattered. Use a bunker busting nuke, and you are going to spread radioactive waste from fallout all over Iran, and other countries.

Those nukes are exactly that - nukes.

They penetrate into the ground deeply, and then detonate, and that detonation releases nuclear waste into the atmosphere, as the inevitable physics involved does it's job.

That would mean radioactive waste spread over a wide area, and moved by wind currents wherever they may blow.

That type of attack would create even more fallout, political fallout, as the US loses Iraq due to it's people revolting against a neighboring country that they share deep historical , cultural , and historical ties with.

Remember , the Shia side is the one in the majority in Iraq - and the most supportive to th e us.

And lastly, Iran well knows that any nuclear attack against Israel will be responded to by Israel - including those THREE Dolphin class subs Israel has - with nuclear armed missiles of sufficient range to easily hit Iran.

That's the best deterrent of all.

Exactly the type of thinking that prevented any nuclear attacks from any nation against another post WW 2 . Any nation that nukes a state with the same potential is going to get the same right back in their face.
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 966
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How is Hillary still going with that stake through her heart?
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:20:01 AM
Yes, she is predicted to win every state left over, the problem is there are not enough delegates in those states and it would have to be a 80-90% win. That is not going to happen. Even if it is a 70% win Obama will pick up 30% and he will keep the lead.


I think she should stay in the race and everyone should have a chance to vote. I do feel sorry for Michigan and Florida, but I think Obama would have taken one of those states.

In the last presidential election the disenfranchised voters were not 'white working class males' in Florida. It was the black voters.

Have a great mothers day weekend.
 itechman42

Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 967
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How is Hillary still going with that stake through her heart?
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:28:16 AM
Words inflame, ignite, and provoke they don't deter. The world doesn't care it was a response to a question, they heard it as yet another unprovoked threat playing in the same pattern as the Iranian leader's. Trigger fingers now twitchier in the Gulf. Iran's leaders now even more convinced they need to have nukes for their own deterrence.

It's okay that we know it would be the response, but it doesn't have to be said. It was stupid, damaging, and even more ridiculous that it was a pandering for votes.
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 968
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Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:30:59 AM
Perhaps it is you who should read something more that what you see in news releases. Anyone who knows anything about nuclear weapons knows that once you have sufficient weapons-grade uranium, which is easy to produce from nuclear reactors, it is easy to produce a nuclear weapon for a country with any degree of industrial base.
It sounds like Hillary is taking the tough stance required against a country that has been proven to be supporting international terrorism.
Being in Canada you might feel you don't have to worry about it, but the president and the citizens of this country have to. Iran is also investing in producing ballistic missiles. Perhaps you yourself have no concern about state supported terrorists acquiring nuclear armed ballistic missiles but I can assure you the leader of your country being a neighbor to the US is also concerned about it.
Why don't you ask him about it?

PhillyFellow
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 969
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Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:36:05 AM

Anyone who knows anything about nuclear weapons knows that once you have sufficient weapons-grade uranium, which is easy to produce from nuclear reactors, it is easy to produce a nuclear weapon for a country with any degree of industrial base.


Anyone that knows anything ?

Like your own intelligence services that prepared that NIE ?

Sorry , I assumed they did.
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 970
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Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:50:07 AM
MG, I don't know the origin of that news release you're quoting, but anyone who knows even the minimal amount about nuclear weapons knows the most important factor in producing a nuclear weapon is getting the weapons grade uranium, which is easy to get from reactors.
That Iran might only have a nuclear reactor now or in the near future is not reassuring when they can produce a nuclear bomb from the uranium used in that reactor within only a few months if they chose to.

May 6, 2008 23:35 | Updated May 7, 2008 16:57
Israel: Iran could have nukes by '09
By YAAKOV KATZ AND HERB KEINON
"The new assessment moves up Israel's forecasts on Teheran's nuclear program by almost a full year - from 2009 to the end of 2008. According to the new timeline, Iran could have a nuclear weapon by the middle of next year.
"Iran, a senior defense official said on Tuesday, had encountered numerous technical obstacles on its way to enriching uranium but was now on track to master the technology needed to enrich uranium within six months.
"Israel is also concerned that Teheran is developing a cruise missile that can evade interception by the Arrow, the IDF's anti-ballistic missile defense system. Iran is suspected of having smuggled Ukrainian X-55 cruise missiles and using them as models for an independent, domestic project. A cruise missile, which flies at low altitudes to dodge radar detection and interception, could be used to carry a nuclear warhead. "
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1209627027461&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

PhillyFellow
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 971
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Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:12:01 AM
MG, I don't know the origin of that news release you're quoting


Here's the actual National Intelligence Estimate, from your own government :

Iran: Nuclear Intentions and Capabilities

http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf.


We judge with moderate confidence that the earliest possible date Iran would be technically capable of producing enough highly enriched uranium (HEU) for a weapon is late 2009, but that this is very unlikely.

We judge with moderate confidence Iran probably would be technically capable of producing enough HEU for a weapon sometime during the 2010-2015 time frame. (INR
judges that Iran is unlikely to achieve this capability before 2013 because of foreseeable
technical and programmatic problems.)

_Ibid
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 972
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Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:19:44 AM
....I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw once that showed the N. Korean dictator sitting next to a small nuke missile and next to him was Uncle Sam sitting on this huge pile of missiles with uncle sam pointing to kim screaming "LUNATIC!"....
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 973
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Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:30:46 AM
Crash1967, I got alot of criticism from my friends when I supported Ronald Reagan on his proposals to reduce nuclear weapons by phased reductions, with his Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START).
They should all be abolished.

PhillyFellow
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 974
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Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:36:25 AM
Check the figures for the US arsenal, they are actually being reduced - and not increased.


The National Nuclear Security Administration reports "an astounding 146 percent increase" from 2006 in atomic bombs and warheads that were dismantled in Fiscal Year 2007, which ended Sept. 30. The agency's goal was a "49% increase."

Impressive numbers. Trouble is, the NNSA's press release does not note the actual number of weapons that were dismantled. Why? It's classified, which makes it hard to evaluate the claims and progress.

Three years ago President Bush set a goal of reducing the nation's stockpile 50% by 2012.

An NPR report in June looked at the dismantling program, including frustration around its secrecy, which dates to the 1990s. One estimate puts the U.S. nuclear arsenal at 10,000 weapons (pdf). AP (which reported the dismantling news Sunday) says 6,000.

NNSA did say "Last year, NNSA permanently dismantled the last W56-type nuclear weapon in the U.S. stockpile. Currently, NNSA is dismantling W62 and the B61 modifications 3 and 4, which will continue for several years."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/10/us-reports-asto.html


Shhhhh.

Don't tell anyone. It might make them less capable of believing the scare tactics.



A great source of information on various topics.

http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/default.asp
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 975
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History
Realistic assessments of nuclear capabilities.
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:58:28 AM
.... man we are flying this thread straight to Algeria....

Good for you philly. we are in agreement here.
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