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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 9:58:46 AM |
I read your postings and what seems to be a common theme emerging with respect to Clinton and Obama, is the same theme that seems to emerge from many of our posts: That of "trust.
Grr, first answer got eaten by the browser devils.  I have two issues, experience AND trust. Obama has NO experience. Hillary has significantly more having been at least peripherally in state and federal politics as First Lady, and then on her own as a US Senator now in her second term.
Does her experience as US First Lady count? It does some. She's been around politics her entire adult life, and she did play some role in policymaking outside of her failed healthcare plan -- mostly in health care related issues. She was also the most travelled first lady in history -- spoke out against the abuse of women in some Third World nations and formed a coalition to engage women in the political process in those nations. She was also First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years, and was just as proactive there.
It trumps Obama's experience at the state level where he voted "present" a lot instead of actually doing something. It's not the same thing as actual federal experience in elective office, but Hillary has been a US Senator for a term plus at this point.
Now on to trust. Hillary certainly has a much longer resume of scandals, but then she's been scrutinized for many more years. Barack Obama was 14 when Hillary married Bill Clinton and became the First Lady of Arkansas. Once more is known about Obama, I'm sure the floodgates are going to erupt, and unlike the Clintons who've never been proven to participate in wrongdoing outside of Monicagate, I think some of the Obama stuff is going to stick.
A lot of Clinton scandals have little merit, like Whitewater, and Hillary has never been charged with any wrongdoing. Has she done anything illegal? I don't think so. She certainly didn't kill Vince Foster or have anything to do with his death. On the other hand there are some stupid Obama rumors too -- like Obama's a Muslim, or that he went to a Madrassa.
What bothers me about Obama is that he sees himself as a somewhat militant black man, and IMO he's squandered his potential to bring races together by associating as black instead of as biracial. No doubt Obama never would have distanced himself from Wright unless he had no choice. And he also has a lot of other long-time close associates who are criminals.
So when I look at the overall, I trust Hillary more. The only thing they could ever catch (Bill) Clinton on was lying about getting a blow job from Monica Lewinsky. Quite frankly, I don't even think we should be asking people in public office who they sleep with unless they are abusing power to get sex, or engaging in illegal activities to get sex (i.e., hiring hookers or raping underage girls). As Monica testified, SHE was the aggressor. Was Bill Clinton an idiot for taking her up on it? Sure.
However, none of the Monica stuff has anything to do with Hillary anyway.
FWIW. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:04:12 AM |
He has ties to the Muslim background and he has even pursued those ties in present with a Pastor that damns our country and encourages intense hatred for our way of life. When analyzing someone you definately pay attention to the little things cause these are tell tale signs of who they are.
Both factually inaccurate and nonsensical. No doubt the result of jumbled misinformation assembled from mudslinging propaganda a few sound bites. Personally, I think an examination of ones deeds and accomplishments, over her/his life, is a more reliable "tell-tale" indicator of who they are.
But I will leave this alone for Itech to speak to himself ...  | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:08:24 AM | I'm actually a Republican, Tired.
I've said before that I like McCain. I wanted to vote for him in 2000. I don't consider him to be the most disingenuous candidate running. I've liked his once central position on issues. No... I am not anti-McCain at all.
What is the significance of Hussein as a middle name? How do you pursue Muslim ties by being associated with a Christian Pastor? What shows dishonor to flag and country? I don't put my hand over my heart during the National Anthem, but I do face the flag in respectful thought of what it means and those who sacrificed for that meaning... but I'm a traitor because I don't honor it in someone else's way? See... these are the Boogey Man arguments all over again. These are the arguments that make me sheepish to admit that I am a Republican. I remember when the parties used to talk about issues, state their positions on the issues, and explained why they thought their positions were a better answer to the problems. Then along the way we based campaigns on funny helmets, the sky is falling, and this guy wants to sell us to Islam.
Can McCain sell me yet again on something other than Obama is truly a Klingon agent sent to betray the United Federation of Planets? Or will Republicans convince me that continued arrogance and exertion of our will abroad is going to start working in our interests eventually someday soon? Can Republicans convince me that continuing policies that haven't worked for decades are going to start working soon?
ETA - Fly. My problem with Bill on your final paragraph. Perjury. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:23:46 AM | I wanted to vote for him in 2000. I actually did, even though my state's primary was three months after the right wing think tank threw McCain under the bus. It then took less than one year for GWB to piss away unprecedented budget surplusses with retroactive tax refunds.
I wrote him McCain in on the 2000 NJ Republican primary ballot, his name wasn't on it. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:31:20 AM | April 28, 2008
Rev. Wright Goes Out of His Way to Thank Jihadist, Anti-Semite
Printer Friendly
By Debbie Schlussel
As I noted last week, former Ayatollah Khomeini employee and eternal friend of Hezbollah and the government of Iran, Imam Mohammed Ali Elahi, went out of his way to praise the Rev. Jeremiah Wright (and attack Jews and Israel), in anticipation of Wright's speech, last night, to the NAACP Freedom Fund Award Dinner in Detroit.
Well, last night, in his speech, Rev. Wright went out of his way to thank Elahi in his speech.
Imam Mohammed Ali Elahi (Right)
(With Hezbollah Spiritual Leader Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah
To get an idea of whom Rev. Wright was thanking, read some of my myriad past work over the years as I've followed Imam Elahi, an open proponent of terrorism and defender of Iran:
* Hezbollah U.S.A.: How a U.S. Attorney, the FBI, ICE & a Congressman Helped a Terror Group
* Pander Bears: Abu Mosque-owitz & the Feds Suck Up at Hezbollah Mosque - PART I
Elahi was so extreme, even his own extremist former mosque--the Islamic Center of America--kicked him out.
Yup, the man Obama won't denounce hangs with one of Iran's/Hezbollah's top American agents and specifically praises him.
Great omen for Obama's Presidency.
Terrorist Fundraisers for Obama
By Patrick Poole
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, April 23, 2008
Two years ago, Hatem El-Hady was the chairman of the Toledo, Ohio-based Islamic charity, Kindhearts, which was closed by the US government in February 2006 for terrorist fundraising and all its assets frozen. Today, El-Hady has redirected his fundraising efforts for his newest cause - Barack Obama for President.
El-Hady has his own dedicated page on Barack Obama's official website, chronicling his fundraising on behalf of the Democratic Party presidential candidate (his Obama profile established on February 19, 2008 - two years to the day after Kindhearts was raided by the feds). Not only that, but he has none other than Barack Obama's wife, Michelle Obama, listed as one of his friends (one of her 224 listed friends).
But his leadership of Kindhearts is not the only thing that has brought him scrutiny by federal law enforcement officials. Last summer, El-Hady was questioned by the FBI concerning his knowledge of possible conspirators in a UK-based terror plot.
Hatem El-Hady's interest in "change" is understandable. Following the closure of Kindhearts, he said in response to the government's closure of his organization:
"It's dirty politics," said Dr. Hatem Elhady, chairman of the board of KindHearts, which raised $5.1 million in 2004. "They do not like the way things are going in Palestine. They do not like the election results. But that is not our problem. Our problem is providing aid to people in desperate need of help."
The Department of Justice had a very different version of events. According to the DOJ, Kindhearts assumed the role of lead terrorist fundraising in the US after the government had closed other such Islamic "charities":
"KindHearts is the progeny of Holy Land Foundation and Global Relief Foundation, which attempted to mask their support for terrorism behind the façade of charitable giving," said Stuart Levey, Treasury Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence.
Not only was Kindhearts engaged in providing funds for HAMAS in Lebanon and the West Bank, it had hired as a fundraising specialist the man identified as the designated HAMAS bag man in the US, Mohammed El-Mezain.
And as investigative reporter Joe Kaufman revealed, "The Black Hearts of Kindhearts", a number of other Kindhearts officials were tied to terrorist fundraising and support:
KindHearts’ Director of Domestic Programs, Khalifah Ramadan. Ramadan was a training and evaluation consultant for the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), two large Muslim organizations based in the United States that have links to overseas terror groups.
KindHearts’ Representaive, Omar Shahin. Shahin was an Imam for the Islamic Center of Tucson (ICT), the former home of numerous terror operatives, including Wael Jelaidan, who later helped found Al-Qaeda.
KindHearts’ Representative, Wagdy Ghuneim. Ghuneim, an Egyptian cleric, has been featured in KindHearts fundraising dinners for 2002, 2003 and 2004. During a rally at Brooklyn College, in May of 1998, Ghuneim attempted to persuade the crowd to support violent jihad and labeled Jews as “descendants of the apes.”
KindHearts’ Representative, Hatem Bazian. Bazian is an Islamic Studies instructor and a member of the faculty of Near Eastern Studies at UC Berkley. In April of 2004, during a San Francisco anti-war rally, Bazian, a native Palestinian, called for an “intifada” against the United States. This was just two months prior to Bazian being featured in a KindHearts Fundraising Dinner, entitled ‘Palestinians in agony!’
KindHearts’ Manager in Lebanon, Haytham Maghawri (a.k.a. Haytham Fawri). Maghawri, the past Social Services Director for HLF, according to the Treasury Department, “collected [KindHearts] funds and sent them to Hamas and other Salafi groups.” [One of the recipients of KindHearts funding was Specially Designated Global Terrorist (SDGT) Usama Hamdan, a leader of Hamas in Lebanon.]
And two months before Kindhearts closure by the US government, Beila Rabinowitz had revealed that the South Asia Division Coordinator for Kindhearts, Zulfiqar Ali Shah, had known ties to al-Qaeda, even conducting a 10-day tour with officials for the Tablighi Jamaat organization, which the New York Times had described as "a springboard for militancy" and a "recruitment" center for Al-Qaeda.
Barack Obama has promised change. And as indicated by the public support that his candidacy has received by accused terrorist fundraiser Hatem El-Hady, Obama's version of change that terrorists and their US supporters can believe in | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:32:35 AM | Bike, you old centrist you! 
I knew who G-Dub was... he wasn't a complete stranger to me. But he came out of nowhere to get that nomination. One day he was calling a reporter an a-hole and the next day he was involved in the craziest election day (or post-election day) spectacles in my lifetime. Ambitious power brokers selected him to be their puppet and they walked all over McCain to get him there.
And here I was at the beginning of the 2000 primaries sad that I as a New York Knicks fan in the late 60s and early 70s was going to have to vote against Bill Bradley and live with myself. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:37:42 AM | That warrants some consideration Tired.
I will say this about Frontpagenews though. I bet it will only take me 15 minutes or less on that site to see documentation proving that George Jetson was actually a Soviet spy. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:45:13 AM | | This is just the tip of the iceberg with Obama and Wright. Your playing with fire if you want to bring these ties into the White house. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:46:22 AM |
Bike, you old centrist you! I'm the posterboy for fencesitters. 
And here I was at the beginning of the 2000 primaries sad that I as a New York Knicks fan in the late 60s and early 70s was going to have to vote against Bill Bradley and live with myself. This guy has turned out to be a bigger lefty yutz than Maureen Dowd. Bradley at one time used to make sense.
I'm going to start a new political thread, sorry to go off topic in this one.
Ambitious power brokers selected him to be their puppet and they walked all over McCain to get him there. I see an eerie parallel to the 2000 republican think tank/W scenario and the 2008 lefty think tank/BHO scenario. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:46:51 AM | | tiredofbeinglonely2, do you really think Obama is going to bring Rev. Wright into a cabinet position or something equally important in Washington? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:55:40 AM | It'll be fun watching Hillary at the convention.
I'd really like to witness the moment that reality sinks in and Obama is announced as the nominee. It'll be like that Valentines day episode of the Simpsons where Lisa breaks Ralph Wiggum's heart at the taping of the Krusty show and Bart records it and replays the exact moment when Ralph's heart snaps in two as the reality of the situation hit him. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:57:41 AM | | Oh, I know Bike. In no way was I ever interested in Bradley's politics. But he sure had a sweet J. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:03:16 AM | Why do people assume that once someone gets to be president they will suddenly be able to do all these evil things without anyone to answer to? Without any way of stopping them?
Granted the current crop of fiends has gone hog wild, but it's only because they were pretty much taken off the leash by their appointed keepers...
I've got no worries that Obama (if he wins the primary/election) will endanger this country with terrorist threats anywhere near as much as the current administration has. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:03:34 AM | In 2000 I was behind Bradley more than Gore for the Democrats; W wasn't on any list as a candidate worthy of the presidency. Once Bradley and McCain went down, I actually became a big Gore supporter; I found his lack of humor and personality to be endearing in a non-bullshitting way.
On the topic of athlete politicians: you know who I would like to see get more involved with national Republican politics? J.C. Watts. | |
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_JAFO_
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Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 1190 | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:21:35 AM | The OK QB? He's in politics? Unfortunately not anymore. He might have been thrown under the same bus that McCain got thrown under that same right wing think tank bus than ran over McCain in 2000.
I always thought Watts would have been a great national political figure. Politics is a real fickle game, way more losers than there are winners. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:22:59 AM | WHOA, Flyonthewall! ...
{quote]Obama has NO experience. Hillary has significantly more having been at least peripherally in state and federal politics as First Lady ...
The "experience" distinction that Hillary has tried to run on the back of has been completely debunked by the factual evidence. As I and others have pointed out earlier in this thread, the only relevant (if even IT is relevant) experience that either of them has is "legislative" experience. And there, Obama actually has one year MORE experience than does Hillary. With respect to what he has done during that time, his legislative accomplishments (published for you earlier in this thread by Simmah, myself, and others) FAR exceed "voting present." In fact, he ranks among the more prolific legislators during his terms both at the state AND federal level. I'm saddened to have to tell you, you're misinformed. Don't worry though, you're not alone. Hillary's impressive and significant following has been built by and sustained on misinformation of her followers (like the "Muslim" bit you alluded to yourself).
Personally, I do not give much weight to First Ladyship, or the vague notion of "being around" politics as "experience" any more than I give credibility to the plumber who has been married to an attorney for two decades as being "experienced" as a litigator. And the official public records of the First Lady's itinerary -- which Hillary strongly resisted becoming public during the time she was asserting her "public policy experience" during Bill's administration -- that were recently published, evinced that, while she traveled a great deal, she participated in little more than standard "First Lady" and "tourist" type events. Again, misperception of the truth, sustained to her advantage.
Once more is known about Obama, I'm sure the floodgates are going to erupt ...
Do you really believe that folks haven't found pretty much all there is to find yet? Rest assured, my friend, that they have a battalion of folks checking him out 24/7! They've discovered who he is, who his parents are, where he's lived at varying points in his life; they've poured over years worth of transcripts, audio and video clips of him and anyone even remotely connected to him (which is who they turned up Rezko; the two "years-old", three-minute excerpts of Rev. Wright that they played on continual loop for months; and Michelle Obama's graduate school thesis, etc.); if they could plausibly suggest that he ever as much as stole a bag of potato chips as a teenager, it'd become the day's "top story." Probably the most damning material they could find, Barack pre-empted by disclosing in his books! But to say that you can't trust him in part because they might find something bad about him at some point in the future, makes absolutely no sense to me at all; and it reveals your tacit concession that you have no viable reason to distrust him right now. Given that logic, you can't trust ANYONE because, at some point, someone might be able to troll up something that'll "stick."
What bothers me about Obama is that he sees himself as a somewhat militant black man ...
HUH??????? ...
Now I done heard it ALL!!
THROUGHOUT this campaign -- AND EVEN ON THIS VERY THREAD -- pundits and Obama supporters have been complaining that Barack is too "even-keeled," "calm," and "unimpassioned" ... that he doesn't get "angry," "riled up" or "aggressive." And now, for the VERY first time, I'm hearing you state that he sees himself as "militant." You've just GOTTA tell me where you get that idea!! I'm waiting to HEAR this one! 
he's squandered his potential to bring races together by associating as black instead of as biracial.
He didn't "associate" himself as "Black" any more than anyone else in this race for the White House has associated him/herself as "White." African-Americans in this country have never dictated what "racial mix" results in one being deemed "Black" or "White" or any other racial group. A very old American slave-era rule of thumb is that, if an individual had at least one-eight Negro blood (i.e. one Black person on either parental side going back four generations), then he was Negro. And, though I cannot say whether that arbitrary rule still holds true today, I CAN say that any man whose skin is pigmented brown -- as is Obama's -- is going to be deemed "Black" in the eyes of those describing him today. Our American landscape is littered with "biracial" inhabitants of the Black/White variety and virtually ALL of them who show outward evidence of not being "purely" White, are seen as Black. To somehow suggest that Barack, Halle Berry, Derek Jeter, Eric Bonet, and a host of other celebrities are not considered "Black" unless they so associate themselves is naive and misinformed, at the very least, if not straight-up disingenuous.
That said, being Black -- in and of itself -- bears absolutely no relevance to the issue of "trustworthiness" or "fitness" for office or to lead, so I fail to see where you're going with that. And, while I suspect that you are correct when you say Obama probably would not have distanced himself from Wright, if he didn't have to, I posit that it is WHOLLY probable that the six minutes of YouTube cannot capture the full measure of the qualities that Barack saw exemplified in Wright during the two decades that he has known him. In fact, I FURTHER suggest that there isn't one among us who couldn't find six minutes of someone we respect and hold dear doing/saying something offensive, particularly if we have twenty years of recoded material to scan through. Anybody hear like Dog: The Bounty Hunter? Any ever heard a friend or family member use a slur towards Mexicans, foreigners, or (gasp!) "African-Americans?" Ever have a friend have a few drinks and drive off somewhere? Smoke a joint, maybe? Have YOU done any of those things?!!
The point is we ALL know of people close to us who do and/or say somethings with which we disagree/disapprove; still, we keep them in our lives because on balance, though not perfect, in our own estimation they are still pretty good folks. Now I want to hear from the lying, self-righteous bastid that seriously tries to assert that I am wrong on that.
So when I look at the overall, I trust Hillary more.
While that's certainly your prerogative, her own actions and statements -- just in the last four of five months of her life -- seriously call into question why you do so. Bosnia-gate aside (bold-faced and repeated lie that it was), Montreal Guy has offered a very comical, though disgraceful, assortment of the many MANY lies, half-truths, and misleading statements that Hillary has made these last few months alone! So that "overall" analysis -thing that you are considering is, at best, a house of cards in a hurricane. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:24:38 AM | .
He was in congress.......
He would be Big With the Focus on the Family group... Better than the Huck...
I had heard some say Rice...
I don't think so... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:27:28 AM | Haha Simma
He doesn't have to bring Wright into the White House.. Its not a myth where there is smoke there is fire.
Obama views are the same as his wifes and his Pastors. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:31:00 AM |
The OK QB? He's in politics?
heath schuler, former university of tennessee QB and NFL bust, is a politician in NC. it's easy for them to get elected, they are already popular! | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:31:30 AM |
The "experience" distinction that Hillary has tried to run on the back of has been completely debunked by the factual evidence. Somebody please tell me if Obama is or is not a Washington insider. I'm perplexed. 
Rank the candidates in order of Washington experience:
McCain
Clinton
Obama
Personally, I do not give much weight to First Ladyship Hey, Hillary isn't that fat! Sure she could lose some weight.
Should we weigh more heavily one's participation for 20 years of their adult life in a fire-and-brimstone congregation? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:39:34 AM | I must admit that I have always voted Republican and made the mistake of pushing hard for Bush the last two elections. That being said, I won't make the same mistake and vote for another Republican President this election and feel that if Edwards had recieved the Democratic nomination in 2004 we wouldn't all be having this discussion. This election season I started out with the premise that I would not vote Republican because this country is headed down the wrong path and my Party has done little if anything to slow it and really seems to be sitting on it's hands watching it happen. That being said many of the issues that we are seeing now originated in the Clinton Whitehouse and were continued in the Bush Whitehouse and we need real change to help get us on track.
Hillary in the whitehouse would mean the very real possability of this Country being ruled by the same two families for at least 28 years straight. Bush Sr 88-92, Clinton 92-2000, Bush jr 2000-2008... can we really take another Clinton 2008-2016? 28 years of the same tired policies that watch the Rich get Richer and the working class get sold down the drain. Ronald Reagan ran on a ticket of asking whether or not we were better off than we were 4 years ago in his reelection. Does anyone thing that the country is better off than it was 20 years ago when we put the 1st of these two families in office?
People say that Obama is all rhetoric and very little substance and I will agree that there has been lots of rhetoric from Obama and it is the right type of rhetoric. It is the type that reaches across party lines and offers hope to all americans regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. It is the type of rhetoric that says that the values of our founding fathers are real and that ALL MEN and WOMEN are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuite of happiness. Not only those rich enough to afford it or those greedy and sneaky enough to steal it. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:41:52 AM | heath schuler, former university of tennessee QB and NFL bust, is a politician in NC. it's easy for them to get elected, they are already popular! Shuler is a Democratic superdelegate who bucked the NC statewide support for Obama to line up for Clinton. His constituency overwhelmingly selected Clinton, so he lined up for Clinton.
I'm waiting for the argument that Shuler's western NC district more resembles WV than it does the rest of NC. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:42:09 AM | .
Watts is from OKLA..... Big in the Christian Groups... I think he might be African American.....
Anyone that thinks Hillary Clinton has less juice than Obama is dreaming.... You has a lot of Power behind her....
and the nerve to go for it....
Check out her record this year alone.....
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