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 Author Thread: Why is Hillary losing? [Thread Closed]
 tireofbeinglonely2

Joined: 2/24/2007
Msg: 1201
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:59:25 AM

People say that Obama is all rhetoric and very little substance and I will agree that there has been lots of rhetoric from Obama and it is the right type of rhetoric. It is the type that reaches across party lines and offers hope to all americans regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. It is the type of rhetoric that says that the values of our founding fathers are real and that ALL MEN and WOMEN are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuite of happiness. Not only those rich enough to afford it or those greedy and sneaky enough to steal it.


Funny you should say that cause Obama's "Moral Compass" (Rev Wright) gave The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan the “Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer” Award at the 2007 Trumpet Gala held on November 2, at the Hyatt Regency Chicago.

And Mr. Farrakhan is the cover story of the November/December 2007 issue of Wright’s Trinity United Church Of Christ’s magazine (a pdf file), which is run by Mr. Wright’s daughter:

And we all know how Mr. Farrakhan feels about "whites, jews, and gays"
 tireofbeinglonely2

Joined: 2/24/2007
Msg: 1202
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:05:12 PM
Your wrong about Hills juice, She has no power. She wouldn't be even in the fight if the republicans weren't proping her up. She is widely detested by the majority of the dem party and pretty much every conservative..
 Simlasa

Joined: 10/30/2004
Msg: 1203
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:08:02 PM
I think Hillary is plenty juicy... but that's mostly Bill's leftover juice.
I'm pretty sure Bill was president only because of Hillary's ambitions... but claiming his experience is also hers seems a bit silly.
They've got a LOT of powerful connections but in my mind that's also a mark against them... all those connections work both ways.
 jmarquise

Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 1204
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:11:06 PM
I thought bill put all his leftover juice on monica.
 Bikeman_

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 1205
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:15:51 PM
I thought bill put all his leftover juice on monica.
Ask some Arkansas state troopers if he had splashed some on Paula Jones.
 jmarquise

Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 1206
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:19:26 PM
slick willy's got plenty of juice to go around. it was my favorite part of him as a president. the fact that he seemed to be a dirtball.
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 1207
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:23:01 PM
.

Tell Reid ... Bill's the one unseating him as majority leader.

She has introduced 16 bills this year... Submitted Over $2 billion in earmarks.

Money for nationwide needs... Port security ..
Money for 1st responder radios,, an Unfunded mandate by Homeland.....
This mandate would wipe out the budgets for many small fire depts....
Update 9-11 nationwide...

She is very powerful, and has a lot of support....

16-17 million Dem's is not a mark against her...

More votes than any other Dem to run for President.... Loser ... Not really... Kerry... Kennedy ...
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 1208
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:26:11 PM
.


By Marie Cocco
Thursday, May 15, 2008; Page A15
As the Democratic nomination contest slouches toward a close, it's time to take stock of what I will not miss.

I will not miss seeing advertisements for T-shirts that bear the slogan "Bros before Hos." The shirts depict Barack Obama (the Bro) and Hillary Clinton (the Ho) and are widely sold on the Internet.

I will not miss walking past airport concessions selling the Hillary Nutcracker, a device in which a pantsuit-clad Clinton doll opens her legs to reveal stainless-steel thighs that, well, bust nuts. I won't miss television and newspaper stories that make light of the novelty item.

I won't miss episodes like the one in which liberal radio personality Randi Rhodes called Clinton a "big [expletive] whore" and said the same about former vice presidential nominee Geraldine Ferraro. Rhodes was appearing at an event sponsored by a San Francisco radio station, before an audience of appreciative Obama supporters -- one of whom had promoted the evening on the presumptive Democratic nominee's official campaign Web site.

I won't miss Citizens United Not Timid (no acronym, please), an anti-Clinton group founded by Republican guru Roger Stone.

Political discourse will at last be free of jokes like this one, told last week by magician Penn Jillette on MSNBC: "Obama did great in February, and that's because that was Black History Month. And now Hillary's doing much better 'cause it's White **** Month, right?" Co-hosts Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski rebuked Jillette.

I won't miss political commentators (including National Public Radio political editor Ken Rudin and Andrew Sullivan, the columnist and blogger) who compare Clinton to the Glenn Close character in the movie "Fatal Attraction." In the iconic 1987 film, Close played an independent New York woman who has an affair with a married man played by Michael Douglas. When the liaison ends, the jilted woman becomes a deranged, knife-wielding stalker who terrorizes the man's blissful suburban family. Message: Psychopathic home-wrecker, begone.

The airwaves will at last be free of comments that liken Clinton to a "she-devil" (Chris Matthews on MSNBC, who helpfully supplied an on-screen mock-up of Clinton sprouting horns). Or those who offer that she's "looking like everyone's first wife standing outside a probate court" (Mike Barnicle, also on MSNBC).

But perhaps it is not wives who are so very problematic. Maybe it's mothers. Because, after all, Clinton is more like "a scolding mother, talking down to a child" (Jack Cafferty on CNN).

When all other images fail, there is one other I will not miss. That is, the down-to-the-basics, simplest one: "White women are a problem, that's -- you know, we all live with that" (William Kristol of Fox News).

I won't miss reading another treatise by a man or woman, of the left or right, who says that sexism has had not even a teeny-weeny bit of influence on the course of the Democratic campaign. To hint that sexism might possibly have had a minimal role is to play that risible "gender card."

Most of all, I will not miss the silence.

I will not miss the deafening, depressing silence of Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean or other leading Democrats, who to my knowledge (with the exception of Sen. Barbara Mikulski of Maryland) haven't publicly uttered a word of outrage at the unrelenting, sex-based hate that has been hurled at a former first lady and two-term senator from New York. Among those holding their tongues are hundreds of Democrats for whom Clinton has campaigned and raised millions of dollars. Don Imus endured more public ire from the political class when he insulted the Rutgers University women's basketball team.

Would the silence prevail if Obama's likeness were put on a tap-dancing doll that was sold at airports? Would the media figures who dole out precious face time to these politicians be such pals if they'd compared Obama with a character in a blaxploitation film? And how would crude references to Obama's sex organs play?

There are many reasons Clinton is losing the nomination contest, some having to do with her strategic mistakes, others with the groundswell for "change." But for all Clinton's political blemishes, the darker stain that has been exposed is the hatred of women that is accepted as a part of our culture.

Marie Cocco is syndicated by the Washington Post Writers Group. Her e-mail address is mariecocco@washpost.com.
 spitfire6844

Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 1209
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:32:15 PM

She is very powerful, and has a lot of support....


Hillary would be effective as Senate Majority Leader. She would have a lot of Senate collegial support for that. She has little support among her colleagues to be president. The millions of votes Hillary received in this primary race are based on name recognition. Those votes don't represent genuine support for her leadership style.
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 1210
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:32:45 PM

So I guess I have to wonder why it is that you and others of us distrust him so much -- ESPECIALLY if they feel they can trust HER.


Vyper, because a man is a very skillful LIAR does not mean we should trust him more:

Curtain Time for Barack Obama - Part II
Wednesday, 14 May 2008, 11:43 am
Column: Evelyn Pringle
Feds track Obama's visits to Rezko.
In the media, Obama always made it sound like he rarely saw Rezko, saying they met for breakfast or lunch once or twice a year. However, the FBI mole John Thomas helped investigators “build a record of repeat visits to the old offices of Rezko and former business partner Daniel Mahru's Rezmar Corp., at 853 N. Elston, by Blagojevich and Obama during 2004 and 2005, “according to the February 10, 2008 Sun-Times.
During his March 14, 2008 interview, the Times told Obama, Thomas is an FBI mole and he "recently told us that he saw you coming and going from Rezko's office a lot."
"And three other sources told us that you and Rezko spoke on the phone daily."
"Is that true?" the reporter asked.
"No," Obama said, "That's not accurate."
"I think what is true," he said, "is that, it depends on the period of time."
"I've known him for 17 years," Obama stated. "There were stretches of time where I would see him once or twice a year."
He told the Times, "when he was involved in finance committee for the U.S. Senate race, or the state senate races, or the U.S. Congressional race, then he was an active member."
"During the U.S. Senate race, there's be stretches of like a couple of weeks - for example prior to him organizing the fundraiser that he did for us - where I would probably be talking to him once a day to make sure that was going well," he said.

"But the typical relationship was one that was fond," he added. "We would see each other."
"But there would be no reason for me to be seeing him that often," he stated.
This issue may be sorted out soon enough because Fitzgerald’s charts matching up Obama’s contributions, visits and calls are bound to be every bit as thorough as the ones produced to prove Rezko is guilty as charged in the first trial. They simply were not produced because they were not needed to prove the defendant guilty in the first case.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0805/S00185.htm

Oh, I see. When reporters were first asking Obama about his connections to Rezko and how often he would see him, he thought they were talking about 17 years ago. He didn't realize they were talking about this time when Rezko was under investigation.
It is only when the reporters informed Obama there was an FBI informant who could confirm these frequent visits that he finally realized they asking about the time that Rezko was under investigation.
Yeah, that makes sense.

PhillyFellow
 SimmahDahnNah

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 1211
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:37:29 PM
Haha Simma

He doesn't have to bring Wright into the White House.. Its not a myth where there is smoke there is fire.

Obama views are the same as his wifes and his Pastors.


Haha Chicken Little Lady,

It's not smoke, it's a smokescreen. If you think the sky is falling, you should take cover. Just don't expect us to come with you.
 tireofbeinglonely2

Joined: 2/24/2007
Msg: 1212
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:39:16 PM
thats crap.. People don't talk like that about me. I am a woman... this is directly Hilary's hatred. Why do people play this like this. People don't like Hilary cause she is Hilary. People don't like Barrack becauses he is Barrack.. playing its race and sexism is stupid and insulting ... If you don't like McCain can I say you hate all Old white haired men... Hell no!!!! stop being stupid..
 tireofbeinglonely2

Joined: 2/24/2007
Msg: 1213
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:44:16 PM
you have to have a fire to put up a smoke screen..

I like the Chicken little lady thing. Very creative.. must have taken lots of thought.
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 1214
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:48:44 PM
.

The millions of votes Hillary received in this primary race are based on name recognition. Those votes don't represent genuine support for her leadership style.



Tell that to the Calif Nurses...

You imply that Hillary supporters are .... Uninformed... Maybe Ignorant.... Uneducated ... No Genuine Support.......

Keep telling yourself that.....

















 spitfire6844

Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 1215
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:59:06 PM

You imply that Hillary supporters are .... Uninformed... Maybe Ignorant.... Uneducated ... No Genuine Support.......


No, many Hillary supporters are very intelligent and successful. No one holds it against them. They just got caught up in the hype and the excitement of her candidacy. The truth is that a Hillary presidency would have been a disaster. A complete disaster. All of the insiders (a group to which Hillary belongs) know that. Once they come down from their buzz, the Hillary supporters will each make a sound, reasonable decision as to whom they want to vote for. Obama and McCain (for different reasons) are both better choices than Hillary would have been. It is great for the process that she is soon to be out of contention.
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 1216
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Return those delegates!
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:13:55 PM
Millions of the VOTERS in Michigan and Florida have been deprived of their right to vote.
Oh, the VOTERS must have committed a felony then? No.
Well, then, those VOTERS must have committed treason against this country, right?
No. The VOTERS didn't do anything.

Then it's the sons of ****es who disenfranchised those voters that are the ones who should be charged with depriving these citizens of their constitutional right to vote, including the committee members of the DNC if they refuse to restore those states their delegates.

Return those delegates!!

PhillyFellow
 flyonthewall!

Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 1217
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:19:42 PM

And there, Obama actually has one year MORE experience than does Hillary.


State legislative experience?

If you notice Rudy Giuliano's candidacy sputtered out and died pretty early on, despite getting national media attention post 9/11. State Senator, Mayor (even of a major city), dog catcher. None are qualifications to be president.

Most presidents have either been in the federal legislature or have been governors of their state. In fact, of the last 5 presidents only one (GHW Bush) was not a governor. This is an unusual election in that the major candidates will both be senators.

I know a lot of state legislators. In most states it isn't even a full-time job. And knowing what's going on in your state has little to do with being in tune with the problems of the US as a whole.


Personally, I do not give much weight to First Ladyship


Depends on how proactive the first lady was.


I CAN say that any man whose skin is pigmented brown -- as is Obama's -- is going to be deemed "Black" in the eyes of those describing him today.


True, but I was talking about how he sees himself, not how other people see him.


That said, being Black -- in and of itself -- bears absolutely no relevance to the issue of "trustworthiness" or "fitness" for office or to lead, so I fail to see where you're going with that.


True again. There are many black men who have endeavored to bring the races together. Obama isn't overtly militant. He has all the rhetoric, talks about healing the racial divide, but then he associates himself with anything but people who would do that. Maybe he should be associating with Bill Cosby instead of Jeremiah White.

I'm not even a little bit against having a black man as president. If it's the RIGHT black man, I'm voting for him. I vote for the human, not the skin color nor the gender.


The point is we ALL know of people close to us who do and/or say somethings with which we disagree/disapprove; still, we keep them in our lives because on balance, though not perfect, in our own estimation they are still pretty good folks.


True, but this is far from something that's just a little off, and Obama was using this guy for spiritual and personal guidance. Makes you wonder why he'd do that.


While that's certainly your prerogative, her own actions and statements -- just in the last four of five months of her life -- seriously call into question why you do so.


Hmm . . . have I ever said to you that your opinions "seriously call into question" why you support Obama? No? Gee, I didn't think so.

I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, and without you questioning my motives.

BTW, over the past few days there's been huge backlash from Hillary supporters regarding the various factions who are trying to get her to quit the race. Angry Hillary supporters are vowing to write her in, vote for McCain, or do anything BUT vote for Obama. You should take note of comments on the some of the Hillary Clinton articles.

A Rasmussen poll reports that 29 percent of Democrats want to see Hillary run as an independent:

http://www.gambling911.com/Hillary-Clinton-Running-as-an-Independent-051508.html

And there are rumors that Obama plans to announce he's won on May 21, which is further disenfranchising Hillary supporters. I don't know if this is true, but it's sure pissing her supporters off. If it's not true Obama should make a statement to quell the anger, and hold onto the few Hillary supporters who will jump the fence.

There's also an interesting article in Real Clear Politics about how Obama will be able to do little if Hillary wants the Vice Presidency:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/if_clinton_wants_to_be_vp_obam.html

Personally I would vote for Hillary if she runs third party, but I don't think she'll do that. I won't write her in though because it will be important to make sure that Obama doesn't win. So I'll do what the majority of her other supporters will do. I'll vote for McCain.
 mj999

Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 1218
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:20:25 PM
When you take into account that Hillary had name recognition, experience and not to mention millions of Bill's supporters on her side, it is pretty incredible what someone like Obama was able to achieve in such a short period of time with none of the advantages Hillary started out with. It definitely took a lot of courage and guts on his part to have even entered the race and it seems his decision has paid off.
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 1219
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:30:52 PM

Your wrong about Hills juice, She has no power. She wouldn't be even in the fight if the republicans weren't proping her up. She is widely detested by the majority of the dem party and pretty much every conservative.


If she were detested by the majority of the democratic party she wouldn't be receiving 50% of the popular vote when you include Florida and Michigan.
That she is detested by most conservatives would be viewed as a badge of honor by most democrats.

PhillyFellow
 Bikeman_

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 1220
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:36:20 PM
It definitely took a lot of courage and guts on his part to have even entered the race and it seems his decision has paid off.
Actually Obama might have just shot himself in the foot and ruined any shot he had to become president. Perhaps it might be a bigger exercise of courage to exercise better timing with his presidential push (if he indeed had such a life-long yearning to be president), waiting for a more fortuitous time? Losing a 2008 election could essentially cripple any future run for presidency. Look what the 2000 loss did to Al Gore. I've got actually got nothing against Obama. With more experience his candidacy would be a lock. With more experience it might be a very commanding leader. Right now his push is a bad crapshoot.

Somebody please explain which red states Obama will turn from red to blue. That's the only way he's going to win in 2008. Please help me here.

Then it's the sons of ****es who disenfranchised those voters that are the ones who should be charged with depriving these citizens of their constitutional right to vote, including the committee members of the DNC if they refuse to restore those states their delegates.
Somebody please correct me here if I'm wrong. Didn't Michigan and Florida, WAY WAY in advance of the 2008 primaries, receive feedback from both the RNC and DNC regarding their setting of the date of their national party primaries? RNC said set the date before whatever, you'll only get half your delegates at the national convention. DNC said you'll get no representation. Then the MI and FL state leaders decided to set the date too early anyway. Can't blame the DNC here. Although I do think maybe they should have adopted the RNC's policy and given them half their alloted delegates.
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 1221
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:46:30 PM

it is pretty incredible what someone like Obama was able to achieve in such a short period of time with none of the advantages Hillary started out with. It definitely took a lot of courage and guts on his part to have even entered the race and it seems his decision has paid off.


Not really brave when your supported by the Kennedy wing of the party..

the same wing that has denied Universal Healthcare all the way back to Nixon...

Kennedy attempted against Carter to take over the party... Now we have Another Kerry....
 Vyper®

Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 1222
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:58:31 PM

Somebody please tell me if Obama is or is not a Washington insider.


Come on, Bike! Even though we support different candidates in this divide, I know you to be a smart, intelligent and insightful guy. I don't need to clarify to you -- even though I DID do so in my post -- that I am speaking of "LEGISLATIVE" experience. So please tell me why on Earth, you'd go through the rather Rovian/Clintonian measure of taking my "experience" out of context and spinning it to reference "Washington" experience???

And, unless you've spent those twenty years in that congregation with Barack, I think you'd probably be unqualified to characterize what went on there during that time. Has every Sunday at YOUR church been just the same as every other for twenty years??!

Is it possible that maybe ... just MAYBE ... Rev. Wright hasn't been barking at his congregation for twenty years about how the history of American racism disqualifies Hillary from being able to empathize with the plight of poor African-Americans?? Do you think that MAYBE, somewhere in those twenty years, this highly-decorated Baptist minister might have spoken about Jesus and his teachings, or do you think it's all been "fire and brimstone" about Hillary, Barack, and how we can't always trust our government?

Indeed you and every one else knows that six minutes on YouTube does not two decades of life experience make. But to suggest that it does does wonders to distract from a rigorous analysis of the positions, policies, and deeds of the candidate himself and how he actually measures up politically against the competition, doesn't it?

"If you can't win a debate on the issue, confuse the issue! "
 tireofbeinglonely2

Joined: 2/24/2007
Msg: 1223
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 2:04:57 PM

If she were detested by the majority of the democratic party she wouldn't be receiving 50% of the popular vote when you include Florida and Michigan.
That she is detested by most conservatives would be viewed as a badge of honor by most democrats
.


oh come on that is a terrible arguement. First of all Hilary left her name on the ballot in Michigan.. So you can't say that was fair to Obama when you start counting those two states. Second if republican's are registering as Dems to vote for her with the intentions of reregistering Republican for the general how can you claim she is getting any sort of popular vote at all.. Her whole run is a sham.

She can't win.. Read the artical above about how much people hate her.. Poor woman
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 1224
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 2:09:23 PM

Obama and McCain (for different reasons) are both better choices than Hillary would have been. It is great for the process that she is soon to be out of contention.


That's funny. If you asked many Hillary supporters they would say Hillary or McCain are far better choices than Obama.
This will be a big problem for the democratic party in the November when so many say they would defect to the other side if their candidate is not selected.
(That's assuming of course that Obama is not indicted by then.)

PhillyFellow
 tireofbeinglonely2

Joined: 2/24/2007
Msg: 1225
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/15/2008 2:12:00 PM

Millions of the VOTERS in Michigan and Florida have been deprived of their right to vote.
Oh, the VOTERS must have committed a felony then? No.
Well, then, those VOTERS must have committed treason against this country, right?
No. The VOTERS didn't do anything.

Then it's the sons of ****es who disenfranchised those voters that are the ones who should be charged with depriving these citizens of their constitutional right to vote, including the committee members of the DNC if they refuse to restore those states their delegates.



Before we summon international election monitors, let's review the facts: In 2007, Michigan and Florida, in direct violation of party rules, scheduled their votes with the full knowledge that the Democratic Party would not recognize their results. In the context of most nominating contests, which are decided after only a handful of states vote, Michigan and Florida figured that it was better to stage an early "beauty contest" than to hold an election once the race was all but decided. The Democratic candidates did not campaign in either state, and only Clinton was on the Michigan ballot, which makes it all the more unconscionable for her campaign to be calling for the Florida and Michigan delegations to be seated.
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