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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 9:06:32 AM | ^^ Personally, I think Obama has none of those traits, so it's all good.
because Clinton did not drop out when Obama supporters (which I'm including the media in this) called for her to drop out, thousands of dems signed up to vote, if she had dropped out, the interest would not have been there for them to even vote
let's not make Obama so "all powerful" that you even say only HE brought thousand out to vote...
If you think the only reason people who have never voted before are now signing up to vote by the thousands is because Clinton stayed in the race, I think you need to look at it a little more objectively. Don't you think that perhaps 04 taught some people a lesson in why they shouldn't stay home? Don't you think that a man who can inspire so many people to donate 10-200 to the tune of over $42 million had something to do with it either? I'm just saying, it's not solely because of Hillary I think it's a combination of all three things. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 9:35:37 AM | LOL, here's a list of famous people who contributed $2300 or more to Barack Obama's campaign, just a small number of the large donors.
http://www.newsmeat.com/campaign_contributions_to_politicians/donor_list.php?candidate_id=P80003338
Warren Buffett, Michael Douglas, Geena Davis, Jamie Lee Curtis, and thousands of others, have contributed over $10,000 each to his campaign. Where do you get these ideas?
http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Warren_Buffett.php
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Michael_Douglas.php
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Geena_Davis.php
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Jamie_Lee_Curtis.php
Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner together have contributed a total of $20,000:
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Ben_Affleck.php
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Jennifer_Garner.php
I've asked this so many times, but have never gotten a cogent answer from anyone. If the reason for Barack Obama's close, personal 20-year relationship with the good Reverend wasn't due to racism, tolerance of racism, or total stupidity (you'd have to be living under a rock not to know what this guy was about) -- then what is the explanation?
Someone's going to have to come up with something plausable, because that's what the 527s will be talking about on the air. He's going to have to have an explanation -- and it had better be something other than those three options above or he's going to lose, and lose BIG. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 10:20:44 AM | Flyonthewall, you must have missed the 3000 page Mr. Wright thread. Lots of people gave lots of possible explanations for his relationship with the reverend. But the truth is, none of us can answer for him. He will be doing that, I'm sure of it. And again, for the millionth time, I personally do not feel his relationship with his pastor is relevant to his candidacy, his voting history, or his ambitions. If you do, then have at it, sister. But the majority of people do not feel as strongly about it as you do, and we have NC to prove it.
As far as the campaign contributions, thank you for posting those. I didn't mean it to come across that the entire $42 million he has in funds came from $10 donations. But in truth, a lot of it did. A lot more than the other candidates, and more than any other candidate in history. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 10:22:10 AM | Is the reason for McCain's close personal association with Bush due to stupidity too ?
(you'd have to be living under a rock not to know what this guy was about) | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 10:24:34 AM |
I've asked this so many times, but have never gotten a cogent answer from anyone. If the reason for Barack Obama's close, personal 20-year relationship with the good Reverend wasn't due to racism, tolerance of racism, or total stupidity (you'd have to be living under a rock not to know what this guy was about) -- then what is the explanation?
Fly, that conclusion does not seem logical to me.
In fact, it kind of reminds me of the well meaning friends and acquaintances who thought I should have left the Catholic Church when news of the child molestations broke several years ago. They knew I was not a molester, but thought I tolerated child molestation because I stayed a member of the church.
Anyway, some of us are able to separate the message from the messenger. Rev. Wright is a 65 year old black man who has no doubt experienced his fair share of racism. I've looked at the tapes and read all the articles about him and do no see how anyone can label him a racist.
I do not agree with what he said about HIV because I was involved in HIV/AIDS outreach for years, however, I can see why he would be suspicious and make such a comment. Look up the Tuskegee Syphillis Experiment.
Obama was raised by a white single mother and two white grandparents. Do you honestly think he is a racist?
As to why Hillary is losing.....bad campaign strategy, taking voters for granted, being divisive and turning some of us off with her sense of entitlement!
Obama 2008! | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 10:36:34 AM | Hillary was reduced to doing a "round-table" discussion with a family of 6 the other day in Oregon. You can probably bet that two of the six were the family dog and the newborn baby. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/17/us/politics/17campaign.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print
Hillary's voice is completely shot. She sounds like a female shot-putter on steroids.
fly on the wall said:
I've asked this so many times, but have never gotten a cogent answer from anyone. If the reason for Barack Obama's close, personal 20-year relationship with the good Reverend wasn't due to racism, tolerance of racism, or total stupidity (you'd have to be living under a rock not to know what this guy was about) -- then what is the explanation?
Realistically, a LOT of people have had pastors whom they didn't know were wacky or were screw-ups. Look at Jim Bakker's followers in the '80's. That guy had a long list of bad, sexual habits and financial improprieties, and yet hundreds of thousands of his followers and contributors had no idea for a long time (even while Bakker was being investigated) that their leader was problematic.
There was a youth pastor/football coach at my old high school who molested some of the teenaged girls at the school during the years I went there. None of us on the football team knew about it until a couple of years after graduation. There weren't any rumors as to what he was doing. We all thought the guy was the greatest, and then came to find out he was a shítball. It happens.
As far as Obama goes: no one really sees him as some kind of regular church-goer, sitting in the front pew soaking up every word of each sermon. Do you? I wouldn't expect that of Obama or Hillary. They are busy, public figures who probably look at their watches the whole time they're in church (during the 1 or 2 weeks out of each month they happen to show up). Most people don't have a "close, personal relationship" with their senior pastor, unless the church only has 50 members or something. Most congregants actually keep pastors at arm's length. Neither Obama nor Hillary would be formulating their political positions based on what a pastor says. The Rev. Wright thing sure hasn't helped Hillary to come back in the race and won't help McCain much in the Fall. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 10:56:02 AM | oh come on...!!!
this wasn't ONLY Obama's "pastor"
it was the person who baptised his children, presided over his marriage, someone who Obama quoted, named his book after...
he exposed his two young girls to the hateful and racist crap that Wright spewed out and for that alone, Obama showed TOTAL lack of judgement-
Obama may have not been in the "front pew soaking up every word of each sermon"
but he was one who had a personal relationship with this man, so he had to have had more insight into what made Wright tick then those parishioners who were in the "front pew soaking up every word of each sermon"
it's like the flag pin on his lapel, he once was quoted as saying-
"You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest."
lo and behold, he tosses Wright but grabs the flag pin- one word...phoney! | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 10:57:13 AM |
If the reason for Barack Obama's close, personal 20-year relationship with the good Reverend wasn't due to racism, tolerance of racism, or total stupidity (you'd have to be living under a rock not to know what this guy was about) -- then what is the explanation?
We won't know the explanation because we weren't there. We don't know anything about their personal discussions or how they approached the relationship nor what it was based upon. There's not a single one of us that doesn't have friends with whom we don't approve of certain aspects, but there were other things about them that forged our relationship.
As a community organizer on Chicago's South Side, Obama worked for causes about which he cared. Wright worked on those same causes for which he likewise cared. They more than likely spent countless hours shoulder to shoulder where "Kill Whitey" never entered the discussion. A friendship could easily have been forged based upon those works where differences or similarities in beliefs were not a factor but rather "tasks at hand".
Not a defense nor apologist response here, we all have friendships and some very close with those with whom we have massive differences in opinion. We have friendships that have risked tarnishing our own reputations although we are not involved in things about those friends that would do so. Because there are good things about those friends that are worthy of our love. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 11:41:56 AM | Let's do some math here.
We've got Kentucky coming up this week :
It's got 52 delegates up for grabs. Hillary is in front there by roughly 30 points.
If we go over to CNN's delegate counter, and plug in the opinion poll spread as listed now, we get something like this : Clinton 32, Obama 19.
If we do the same with Oregon, where Obama's got a 12 percent lead at the moment, we get this : Obama 27 , Clinton 25.
Obama's at 1,948 delegates overall, Clinton at 1,776, if we do that.
Although too far ahead to really get a good feel for the last races, if we take the current stats from those remaining after all this we get the following as a possible outcome after South Dakota and Puerto Rico :
Obama : 1,991
Clinton: 1,819
That leaves him, without ANY additional superdelegates crossing the line before then, 35 delegates away from victory.
My guess is that the superdelegates will pull the plug on Hillary after this week, to avoid additional delay and damage in the more important battle against McCain.
May 19, 2008
BARACK Obama is expected to claim the mantle of Democratic nominee this week when he passes a significant milestone.
A win in Oregon would ensure that he has more than 50% of the delegates available through primary contests.
Together with his lead in super-delegates, Senator Obama will claim that he is in an unassailable position, even though his rival, Hillary Clinton, continues to campaign as if there is still hope.
"George Bush and John McCain have a lot to answer for," Senator Obama said.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/us-election/all-but-in-the-bag
/2008/05/18/1211049064272.html
Once that Rubicon is crossed, I think you'll see the coup de grace delivered by the superdelegates to Hillary - before the convention. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 12:25:06 PM | MG, do that same calculation using just the delegate counts from primaries and caucuses alone. Remember the superdelegates preferences won't matter until the actual convention. You yourself mentioned cases where superdelegates changed their allegiance from Clinton to Obama. That's because they can name any preference they please before the convention or give no preference at all. All 800 superdelegates could claim allegiance to Obama now and their votes still wouldn't matter until at the convention itself.
Now, in that article Vyper quoted in message 1327, it looks increasingly likely that at least 50% of the delegates will be restored to Florida and Michigan. So do the delegate count now using only the primary and caucuses and then add in the large delegate gain Clinton gets from the Michigan and Florida primaries even with a 50% penalty.
Note that the republican national committee did follow their own rules and only accessed a 50% delegate penalty to Florida. Notice the republican Florida primary went off perfectly with no worries about the voters there losing their right to vote:
McCain Beats Romney to Win Fla. Primary.
DAVID ESPO and LIZ SIDOTI | January 29, 2008 11:25 PM EST | AP
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/29/mccain-beats-romney-to-wi_n_83909.html
The 50% delegate penalty for the republicans will simply be assessed at the convention. Quite importantly also is that the popular votes for the republican candidates do count now. It is only because the DNC rules committee chose to go against their own rules and impose a 100% penalty that caused the democrats' votes in those states not to count.
Notice this has caused a major problem for the democrats for the November general election because the DNC has effectively told the millions of voters in those states that their vote does not matter. Not only has their decision seriously harmed one candidate while helping the other it has also seriously harmed the democratic party's chances in the general election.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 12:41:36 PM | Notice this has caused a major problem for the democrats for the November general election because the DNC has effectively told the millions of voters in those states that their vote does not matter.
As did Hillary herself :
NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"
Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"
http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=zydzt
Pot ? Meet Kettle. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 5:49:24 PM | In fact, it kind of reminds me of the well meaning friends and acquaintances who thought I should have left the Catholic Church when news of the child molestations broke several years ago. They knew I was not a molester, but thought I tolerated child molestation because I stayed a member of the church
Uh no. The comparison would be if your priest was molesting children. You were friends with this priest, and continued to be friends with this priest even though you knew what he was doing. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 6:04:54 PM | | I see how she can make the comparison....people left the catholic church like their hair was on fire when that scandal was becoming public. There were some that stayed, and lots of people questioned them for it. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 6:07:19 PM | Just look at Oregon yesterday :
May 18, 2008, 7:41 pm
Obama Holds Huge Rally in Oregon
Barack Obama held his biggest rally to date in here on Saturday. The Democratic frontrunner attracted a crowd of 75,000 according to Duane Bray, battalion chief with Portland Fire and Rescue.
Obama held the rally on a grassy mall along side of the Willamette River as hordes of Oregonians packed onto the lawn and even pulled their boats up near the stage to listen to the speech from the river.
Accompanied by his wife, Michelle and their two small daughters, Malia, 9 and Sasha, 7, Obama gave his standard stump speech calling for change in Washington. He accused likely Republican nominee of running for “George Bush’s third term,” sparking applause from the audience.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/05/
18/obama-holds-huge-rally-in-oregon/?mod=WSJBlog
75,000 ?
What's the maximum amount Hillary's ever drawn to hear her speak, or McCain ? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 7:34:53 PM | may be the Demomacratic memeber sare finally taking off the rose colored glasse they have been looking throufggh and seeing and or remembering all the lies and deception the clintons have been responsible for in their poitical career take the following ads a prime exampleHillary Lies Continue
Hillary Clinton with credibility problems NO WAY!!!....Hardly news to us .After long delayed release of her schedule as first lady offers another example.
Hillary Clinton won the Ohio primary mostly in part in convincing voters that she
privately opposed NAFTA even as her husbands administration drafted and supported it.
Yet after reading 11,000 pages of the first lady's schedule doesn't show Clinton ferociously working against NAFTA.
Amazingly it shows just the opposite. This being it was her husbands administration you may feel this is no big deal ..Read on
In 1993 just before congress was to vote on the trade agreement. She forcefully urged a room full of Business women to support NAFTA's passage
One attendee told ABC news ' Her remarks were totally pro NAFTA and what a good thing this would be for the economy there was no equivocation for her support of NAFTA at the time, Folks were pleased she stopped by. If there was still a question of
what Hillary's position was when she was first lady she was totally supportive of NAFTA
Again on the face not damaging hence she was first lady at the time , Now take the fact that the event was organized by the first ladies office Which makes it likely that Hillary was not just in attendance as an emissary of her husbands administration.
Noting Sen. Clintons current position and talking about re-negotiating NAFTA the same attendee was recently quoted "A number of the women who were there
are very upset. You need to have some integrity in your position. The Clintons when Bill was president took a more moderate position on trade. For Democrats to repudiate that now seems pretty phoney."
This is one example of possibly thousands of why the Clinton Library delay in releasing the first ladies schedule from the National Archives.
Had this information gotten out before the Ohio primary, it would have been almost impossible for Hillary to boldly claim she "always" opposed NAFTA Hence a loss in Ohio
MARC
 | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 7:48:42 PM | You want THIS for President?
Quotes from Barack Hussein Obama's books:
From 'Dreams of My Father',
"I CEASED TO ADVERISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT THE AGE OF12 OR 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"
From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".
From 'Dreams of my Father', "The emotion between the races could never be pure..... the THE OTHER RACE (WHITE) WOULD ALWAYS REMAIN JUST THAT: MENACING, ALIEN AND APART"
From Dreams Of My Father, "never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. IT WAS INTO MY FATHER'S IMAGE , THE BLACK MAN, THE SON OF AFRICA, THAT I'D PACKED ALL THE ATTRIBUTES I SOUGHT IN MYSELF.
From Dreams Of My Father:
"THAT HATE HADN'T GONE AWAY," he wrote, BLAMING WHITE PEOPLE,- SOME CRUEL, SOME IGNORANT, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."
From Dreams Of My Father;
"There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs," he wrote. "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, TO SHOW YOUR LOYALTY TO THE BLACK MASSES, TO STRIKE OUT, and name names"
From Dreams Of My Father, "I had grown accustomed, everywhere, to SUSPICIONS BETWEEN THE RACES.."
Quote from Barack Obama's book, Dreams Of My Father:
"The person who made me proudest of all, though, was [half brother] Roy .. He converted to Islam."
From 'Dreams of my Father', "In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school"
"I studied the Koran.."
From 'Audacity of Hope: "Lolo (Obama's step father) followed a brand of Islam ...."I looked to Lolo for guidance".
From 'The Audacity Of Hope, "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
From The Audacity Of Hope, "We are no longer just a Christian nation," "We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."
source:
http://www.examiner.com/a-534540~Can_a_past_of_Islam_change_the_path_to_pres ident_for_Obama_.html?cid=dc-article-obama
http://www.examiner.com/a-536474~_Trapped_between_two_worlds_.html
__________________
The truth that the leftist media won't tell you:
http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_more/obama.htm
This beautiful 9/11 tribute site should be required viewing yearly for every American...
least we forget:
http://www.frugalsites.net/911/attack/
He has defined himself as a racist... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 8:07:29 PM |
75,000 ? What's the maximum amount Hillary's ever drawn to hear her speak, or McCain ?
so, Obama has rock star status, Hillary doesn't, but numbers prove NOTHING about someone's qualities to be president
they show only that they are popular - whoopee!
but they can get someone in the White House-
example, Bush won two terms
so Americans have been duped again- gee...
so now it's McCain or Obama!!!
I'm not even sure I can pick out which one is the lesser of two evils... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/18/2008 8:51:39 PM | .
How many go to Hanna Montana Concerts???
Hitler had big turn outs. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/19/2008 3:46:41 AM | MG, I wouldn't care if even it were Hillary right there in that DNC committee room voting to deny those citizens their right to vote. The decision was inherently wrong.
It is absolutely astonishing that the DNC rules committee wouldn't realize the mess this would create. What, are the republican rules committee members smarter than those on the democratic committee? How is it that they realized that you couldn't impose a 100% penalty because that would disenfranchise those entire states, and the democrats didn't realize it or didn't care?
Or perhaps there was some outside influence that led them to make this blindingly foolish decision.
How can anyone even think of disenfranchising two entire states!
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/19/2008 3:48:40 AM |
so, Obama has rock star status, Hillary doesn't, but numbers prove NOTHING about someone's qualities to be president
they show only that they are popular - whoopee!
Duhhh. That's what wins elections. Or hadn't you noticed. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/19/2008 3:50:36 AM |
How can anyone even think of disenfranchising two entire states!
Why ask us? Why not ask the states that broke the rules? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/19/2008 6:16:33 AM | Bluesman, there was a reason why the maximum penalty for breaking the party rules and moving the primary was 50% both for the republicans and the democrats, that was because it would ensure those voters could still vote!
The republicans realized that and it was their own party who caused the Florida primary to be moved!
I'm telling you the federal prosecutors are going to add the DNC rules committee members to their list of possible co-conspirators of the Antoin "Tony" Rezko political corruption case.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/19/2008 8:19:01 AM |
PhillyFellow Said:
How can anyone even think of disenfranchising two entire states!
Are you really forgetting that Clinton and Obama agreed with the decision not to include votes from these two states when the parties of those states BROKE THE RULES?
To reiterate: HILLARY CLINTON AGREED the votes shouldn't count... Until she decided she could benefit from those votes of course.
Now... will you PLEASE stop beating this particular horse? The poor thing's been dead for quite some time.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/19/2008 8:30:06 AM |
FredHH Said:
He has defined himself as a racist...
He has been honest with his difficulties growing up in America. Heck, the first quotes that you cut and pasted where from when he was 12 years old for godsake, and by including the Limbaughism of "Hussein" in his name simply shows your own intolerances and fear mongering.
Oh, and as I read through your supplied quotes, I'm actually scratching my head as to why you think these somehow 'prove' something?
I like that last one... "We are no longer just a Christian nation," "We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers." It makes me think this is a man I will PROUDLY call my president.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/19/2008 8:55:27 AM | So... his middle name is not mentionable?
It is fact. Thats his middle name.
If you don't like it... tell HIM to change it.
Blame his mother for letting his father give that middle name to him. | |
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