| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 4:41:23 AM | Philly, I have to admire your loyalty. Really.
But honestly, what makes you think that if she even were to "get the popular vote" awarded to her for MI and FL, that the popular vote would count for much of anything when we are seeing delegates and superdelegates going against her by the dozens...in states that she truly did win the popular vote? And what will the popular vote count for if the dels and supers are going against her? What does the popular vote count for in the big scheme of any of it? We saw Al Gore lose the election, he had the popular vote...we saw Kerry get ousted from the contest when Bush had to get the Supreme Court on his side and vote him in.....it just seems a little idealistic and not of any consequence to think that even if she were awarded the benefit of the doubt in those two states it would do her any good. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 6:39:41 AM | | Fredder I was just having fun with Bob's ''09 Election' typo. I don't think we need to gang up on him over it. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:17:20 AM | Hillary is in the phase of her campaign marked by diminishing returns. Her every move and statement is being picked apart now under the microscope of one overriding question: "Why is she persisting with this?" Gov. David Paterson, one of Hillary's most loyal supporters, says she's acting desperate. Even Maggie Williams had to venture out of the Hillary War Room and do interviews after yesterday's round of stories.
We're at the point now where it's not about whether or not Hillary will win the nomination. It's not about whether she'll get the VP slot or a Cabinet position. All of those options are remote. We're now waiting to see if Hillary will be able to slink back to the U. S. Senate with any credibility or respectability intact. The odds are about 50/50 right now. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:47:53 AM | SimmahDahnNah, you have to keep in mind that what the superdelegates say at this point won't determine the nominee because their vote won't be counted until the August convention. You could have all 800 of them say now they favor Obama and he still wouldn't have the nomination until their votes are actually counted in August. As you know who they say they prefer can change either way until their vote is actually recorded.
Also, from news reports it very likely that at least half the delegates to Michigan and Florida will be restored to those states, which is what it should have been in the first place. This will significantly cut into Obama's delegate lead since Hillary won those states big. Very important to remember also is that if those delegates are added to the total then that makes the required number to secure the nomination about 200 delegates higher than it is now which will make Obama's claim he has enough delegates to claim the nomination even less valid.
If the delegates to the Florida and Michigan were to be fully restored then Clinton would get a 111 delegate gain if you went under the assumption that Obama would get no delegates from Michigan because he voluntarily moved his name from the ballot. Since his delegate lead in pledged delegates from primaries and caucuses alone is around 160 that would mean his lead would be less than 50. Because Puerto Rico is expected to favor Clinton big and the other states have low number of delegates, the final lead of Obama would be even less than this.
This would be the case if ALL those delegates were restored. I don't say this is the likely scenario. The main reason I don't completely rule it out is that the DNC rules committee decision to completely strip those delegates was so COLOSSALLY stupid that there might have been an outside influence that led them to go against their own rules to make that decision. In that case any decisions at all they made would have been invalid and those delegates could be completely restored.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:30:59 AM | SimmahDahnNah walks up to PhillyFellow, gives him a nice friendly hug..pulls back...takes him by the shoulders, and shakes him like a red headed stepchild!
Snap out of it Philly!! We have other contests, which do count to look forward to! Speculating on what MI and FL might or might not do, and what could happen if so and so goes this way and so and so goes that way....you're wasting your time, my friend. Time that could much better be spent on...well pretty much anything else. lol
I'm sorry I had to shake you. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:32:35 AM |
If the delegates to the Florida and Michigan were to be fully restored then Clinton would get a 111 delegate gain if you went under the assumption that Obama would get no delegates from Michigan because he voluntarily moved his name from the ballot.
So how are the voters that voted for NOT HILLARY being fairly treated? How is this representative?
I agree that EVERY Democrat screwed those states over but I feel that Hillary should not benefit from them when she did not go to bat for them last year. Among all the people at whom I would be pissed, I would want to ask Hillary why we matter to her now when she nonchalantly went along then. That would be a personal thing in favor of no one, but my attention would be drawn to the disingenuousness of her complaints now. She already had a chance to represent these voters and she failed when it counted. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:39:31 AM | ^^^ agreed, itech. She was as nonchalant about all of it as if it were a Sunday drive when it was happening...then when she started actually losing, is when she started pounding her fist on the podium demanding this be done "fairly".
I'm not sure MI has enough old ladies to push her over the edge. Florida maybe, but I don't know about MI. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:47:44 AM | And we know that if the shoe was on Obama's foot that she'd be pounding her fist saying "Hell no!".
No one did right by those voters but I would be insulted by her fake concern now. If I had voted for her then, I'd vote against her in a re-vote because of it. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 10:51:00 AM | LOL....
I have consistently used the wrong year..... every post.........Every time........
What would you expect from a Long time Liberal Ignorant Hillary supporter... cut me some slack.
Isn't it like using a stop watch at the Special Olympics... or laughing at the last place finisher......
M/G seems to grasp the importance of the upcoming election...
The one in 08...
(not 09 that one is my trailer park association. 5 months after that one the leadership will change.... unless the vote count is challenged, I don''t understand the Bi-laws.....)
However,,,,,,,,
Everyone seems to assume that after the last few months...... logic will prevail over emotion.......
Many of the Hillary supporters were involved when Adlai E. Stevenson ran.....
They supported and stood by the word "liberal" ....... like James Michener
Progressive=Coward
I am impressed by the behavior of the Obama Surrogates. ...The ones that he cannot control.
The Dem's have become everything that I hated in the RNC. Swift-boaters
I used to listen to Air America.
I used to read Huffington...dailykos.
The Denver convention is going to be very bad. The only hope...
the Clintons draw the need support to win.
I am still waiting for anyone to show me how Obama will get 270 electoral votes........
The one swing state....... It is a dream to think that this is a lock.......
McCain is at 230-240???
................. an Ignorant Hillary supporter | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 11:05:54 AM | LOL....
I have consistently used the wrong year..... every post.........Every time........
You've more than made up for that with many posts here Bob.  The way I read it was you were talking about the election that seats a president, in Jan. '09.
I am still waiting for anyone to show me how Obama will get 270 electoral votes........
The one swing state....... It is a dream to think that this is a lock.......
The focus, the entire focus, has to be on showing what McCain stands for, and it's implications for the future of your country.
His campaign is infested with neocons and Bush connections.
He's behind in fund raising, and Republican support is falling - and this will worsen as the economy worsens. Americans, hit hard by the Republican mismanagement of the country, will seek change - and McCain doesn't offer any.
His tax cuts while continuing the expense of the war will bankrupt your nation.
Chances are almost certain that a McCain presidency will ensure an attack on Iran. People like Bill Kristol and the others have been beating their war drum on this for a long time. McCain's essentially agreed with it with that " Bomb Iran" Beachboys tribute. 
His potential Treasury Secretary is tied directly into Enron and the subprime mess.
He's made some critical errors in foreign policy facts, like who the leader of Iran is, and that AQ was being trained by Shias inside Iran. That shows a fundamental lack of understanding on one of the biggest issues that has faced the US for a long time now.
If you cannot realize that AQ is Sunni based, and Iran is Shia based, and what that means to any cooperation between the two - it's a HUGE error.
For these things, and many more, McCain can be quite easily beaten - if people start to show what McCain really stands for.
The time for that is NOW, and not in November. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 11:25:56 AM | Sorry Bob. I just was having fun with a typo. I sure didn't expect it to be taken as a reflection on intelligence just because I spell gooder.
Let's let the real campaign begin already and see how the swing states play out since the argument of what states Hillary could carry amounts to the argument over just where did The Brady Bunch find Cousin Oliver. Grab the knife and butter her a$$, she's toast.
Polls are showing growing strength in Ohio and Pennsylvania for Obama with him leading McCain in most although again polls mean little and especially at this point. I don't think McCain holds up under the scrutiny. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 11:27:22 AM | '
Logic??? Issues????
That does not work....... McCain is a non-issue.
The primary has been treated like a Hockey game .....
and the forward has spiked the puck in front of the goalie......They do that don't they??
Huffington and Raw should have left this alone......... THEY pushed the story.
You have heard the sound bite ....a distortion........ in the head line
Obama has ask them to stop...... The Surrogates are not going to stop.... they are out of control!!!!!!!!!!
There will be a point, no matter what everyone thinks that Clinton will not.....WILL NOT be able to salvage the party.
Blame her if you want for the loss, but the Dem's need every voter to win.
...............Hillary '09 | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 11:30:59 AM |
General Election: McCain vs. Obama
Polling Data
Poll Date Sample Obama (D) McCain (R) Spread
RCP Average 05/11 - 05/23 -- 47.0 44.0 Obama +3.0
Newsweek 05/21 - 05/22 1205 RV 46 46 Tie
Gallup Tracking 05/18 - 05/22 4471 RV 46 46 Tie
Rasmussen Tracking 05/20 - 05/23 1600 LV 44 46 McCain +2.0
Reuters/Zogby 05/15 - 05/18 1076 LV 48 40 Obama +8.0
IBD/TIPP 05/12 - 05/18 953 A 48 37 Obama +11.0
Democracy Corps (D) 05/13 - 05/15 1014 LV 48 46 Obama +2.0
Battleground 05/11 - 05/14 1018 LV 49 47 Obama +2.0
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/
general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
More importantly, look at the trend - McCain's dropping, and all of this stuff on him isn't even out there yet. As the economy worsens, and people are shown his connections, his platform, and what this means to four more years of the same ?
Nothing's ever a sure thing, and the worst thing you can do is take your opponent for granted.
But the signs are there, and there's no time to waste. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 11:54:13 AM | .
POLLING???? Meaningless......... 270 and no Supreme Court.........
How is Obama going to win without the Clinton support?
Crap like yesterday will DRIVE her support away from the general, in '08.....
See it as you want .......It is B/S
However
There are 17+ million Clinton supporters and many of them did not hear it that way.......
Hillary is the most open running .......she is speaking 200 thousand words a day???
Huffington and Raw ..... suck.........
The need for leadership in this country is important.
All I see is a big GAME... my guy is better than your guy....
throwning cow pies at Clinton will not win the General....... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 12:11:58 PM |
How is Obama going to win without the Clinton support?
Then go ahead and give the Presidency to McCain to make a point. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 12:12:18 PM |
Grab the knife and butter her a$$, she's toast.
Don't worry....... I understand how Ignorant you are .....I have read your posts. jajaja
Obama needs her now for voter registration and excitement......
McCain Who?
The front runner can't lose a primary by 40% against >>>>>no one>>>
The Hilary Bashers love to IMAGINE she wants to ruin the country.....
She and Bill only the best interest for the USA.
( I went to school with a bunch of Canadians...... They KICKED my buttt every time I used America.........What has changed? Have the Canadians turned into a bunch of ???)
She is not toast........
Voter numbers and control of the message...........
Besides has Obama WON????
******VOTER REGISTRATION ********TURN OUT..............or Antonin Gregory Scalia | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 12:33:35 PM |
The Hilary Bashers love to IMAGINE she wants to ruin the country.....
That's not what I'm saying.
As I said, I still have a lot of respect for the Clintons, but that's been tempered by her actions during this primary. Had she stayed focused on the issues, and their differences, then that's what this primary process is all about.
You don't make your opponent look bad, you make yourself look better. And the one thing you never, and I mean NEVER forget ?
The real battle is the one in November.
That's being lost now, as the inevitable gets delayed due to a loss of focus. Each day that it continues, each and every day, McCain gets another chance to start gaining momentum.
As I said before, when your opponent is on the ropes - you don't stop. And McCain IS on the ropes, and standing on some VERY shaky ground. He's committed to a platform that can sink him, and he can't change this horse in mid-stream.
You don't need slime to take him down, all you need to do is show EXACTLY what a McCain presidency stands for. Ironically, his website is the best evidence against him, as are the people on his campaign staff.
On everything America is fed up with, McCain has a bumper crop to harvest.
Obama needs her now for voter registration and excitement......
It's time to bring together this house that's been divided for far too long, America's house, and the Democratic house. If supporters on either side cannot see the looming danger ahead, then it's time to remind everyone (especially Democrats) about what's in store for the nation if they are too myopic to see what's right in front of them. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 1:01:57 PM |
That's not what I'm saying.
The real battle is the one in November.
loss of focus.
It's time to bring together this house that's been divided for far too long
Obama supporters are as bad as Kenny Starr..........
You might say that accusing Hillary of wanting to kill Obama is divisive?
Or
She is running only because someone might kill Obama??
Right now.......McCain is a non issue...... That should be an asset......... Voter registration and turnout should be important...
however
Hillary should have QUIT... she lost in Feb........ DO THE MATH.......
I have done the math of increased voter numbers.......
BUTTTTT
Anyone that is voting for Clinton is ignorant a racist .......or??
Where is this dynamic leadership... where is the Change?
The battle is NOW>>>>> it is a battle for REASON! | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 1:19:18 PM | How is Hillary any more of a 'dynamic leader' than Obama? His campaign seems to be doing pretty well... seems to be run well. How is he obviously less of a 'leader'?
Where are all these examples of Hillary's 'dynamic leadership'?
Where did anyone say that people voting for Clinton are racist? (as opposed to suggesting that some people who are voting AGAINST Obama might be motivated that way).
No one has said she wants to kill Obama... and if she is merely wishing him dead... well, that's understandable. She's waited her whole life to be president and this upstart is messing up her chances... who's to blame her if she comes a bit unhinged... starts making ludicrous claims and strange insinuations.
Truly, I used to like her... would have voted for her for President... but the more I've seen of her the more I think she's lost herself... buried under her own ambitions to the point that she can't really remember why she even wants it so bad anymore.
I can't believe that any of her choices, even if she got the job, would be any more lucid... any more free of the schemes and maledictions that it's taken to get her there.
Most all politicians suffer from that anyway... but in her case it seems especially wierd and sad.
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 1:49:53 PM | SimmahDahnNah, take a look at the news articles about the May 31st meeting of the DNC credentials committee in regards to the question of Florida and Michigan. They all say at least 50% of the delegates are likely to be restored to those states. This is because it's in the democratic party's own self-interest to do this. They know going in to the November general election if they keep things as they are telling those voters that their vote doesn't count, they are going to lose a lot of those voters in November. Or as one Florida official put it: "Either count me now, or don't count on me later."
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:06:10 PM | | Well, why don't we just wait and see what happens on May 31st. I mean really, it's not going to change the outcome...you said yourself (I think) that the delegates and superdelegates can go whatever way they choose. The delegates will be seated, and I take that to mean that they are allowed to vote, but they are not necessarily going to be voting for Clinton...especially when the popular vote cannot be used as a gauge. JMO. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:15:40 PM | This article was posted on one of the Hillary support forums. I have to admit I got a little choked up reading it.
Boston Marathon
First Woman’s Strides in Boston Still Echoing.
By KATHRINE SWITZER
Published: April 15, 2007
"Two miles into the 1967 Boston Marathon, an official tried to eject me from the race simply because I was a woman. That event changed my life and, as a consequence, the lives of millions of women around the world.
"The marathon was a man’s race in those days; women were considered too fragile to run it. But I had trained hard and was confident of my strength. Still, it took a body block from my boyfriend to knock the official off the course and allow me to complete the 26 miles 385 yards."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/sports/othersports/15switzer.html
Go Hillary! And don't let any man try to tell you what you can and can not do!
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:30:24 PM |
Or as one Florida official put it: "Either count me now, or don't count on me later."
How very Patrick Henry of one of the guys that likely screwed it up for them in the first place. (How'd I do J-Marq?). Is this an elected official that should lose his office as the citizens of FL need to boot him?
Hey, maybe the woman marathoner could organize a campaign that would show her worthy to be a leader since Hillary couldn't. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:38:02 PM | Itechman, I think the person who made the statement "Either count me now, or don't count on me later" was a U.S. congresswoman from Florida but I couldn't find her name quickly after a web search.
Remember too the Florida democratic state representatives tried and failed to overturn the bill to move the primaries because the republicans had a 2 to 1 majority.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:45:17 PM | I found the quote. It was by U.S. Representative Corrine Brown of Florida:
"You are going to count us now or don’t count on us later."
PhillyFellow | |
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