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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Why is Hillary losing? [Thread Closed]      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Why is Hillary losing? [Thread Closed]
 loveoregon

Joined: 10/3/2004
Msg: 1826
Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 3:31:46 PM
Hillary lost my vote when she became really b!tchy soon after the primaries started. For some reason, I saw her in a different and ugly light at that time.
 easyoneverything

Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 1827
Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 5:36:38 PM
I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone here Simmah, just trying to keep the hyperbole as even as I can. There has been PLENTY said here about all of the many lies made by Clinton, but relatively little about Obama. As I said, I believe one of the reasons "Hillary is losing" is unbalanced media coverage. None of the Obama gaffes I presented have had nearly the national spotlight - if any - that every single one of Clinton's gaffes have enjoyed. I find that unbalanced and I believe it has swayed the electorate. That's not limited to just under-reporting of gaffes by the way, but the rest of the argument has been ably stated here sufficiently and I won't restate it here.

I have already stated several times that I am not arguing Clinton is perfect, although I do believe she is the better candidate. Obama enthusiasts disagree and are quick to point to her many 'lies' as 'proof' that she is not a good leader. It is only fair to identify Obama's shortcoming in the same manner.

Neither candidate is perfect, but I am arguing that the coverage of the candidates is unbalanced - for whatever reason doesn't matter. The national media are supposed to be neutral and present both sides fairly. The fifth estate and all that. They're not doing their job. And when people draw attention to that, they're accused of just being ****y feminists who are unhappy that their candidate is losing. In my view it is quite beyond that.
 edisto

Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 1828
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 5:42:27 PM

Hillary lost my vote when she became really b!tchy soon after the primaries started.

sure, there's NO sexism in this race!
so what the hell does "she became really b1tchy" mean-?
this is sexism pure and simple and for those who don't see it, you're in denial-
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 1829
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 6:20:15 PM

Neither candidate is perfect, but I am arguing that the coverage of the candidates is unbalanced - for whatever reason doesn't matter. The national media are supposed to be neutral and present both sides fairly. The fifth estate and all that. They're not doing their job. And when people draw attention to that, they're accused of just being ****y feminists who are unhappy that their candidate is losing. In my view it is quite beyond that.


I can't say with a straight face that all the media coverage is fair and unbalanced. However, I do agree with the people who are pointing out that Hillary rode the wave of being 'the darling' for the last several years. Why all of a sudden are the tides turning? I think there's a few reasons. One, they never had much to say about Obama before he decided to run. Another reason, in my honest opinion here, is that Hillary is the one that's changed, therefore pushing them in the other direction. That's just an opinion. I do think the media gets a mob-like mentality, but I don't think they conspire and conjure.
 easyoneverything

Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 1830
Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 6:28:49 PM
Well, you could be right. The media love to build someone up and then tear them down. Perhaps that's part of the reason Hillary wants to stay in the race - as they've built Obama up into this black Jack Kennedy icon, the pendulum will eventually swing the other direction. Clinton supporters hope that swing happens at the convention.
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 1831
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 6:41:24 PM
Well, hope is a good thing, but I hope you're not holding your breath on that one. lol June 3 is coming upon us quickly....will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.
 loveoregon

Joined: 10/3/2004
Msg: 1832
Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 6:54:57 PM

so what the hell does "she became really b1tchy" mean-?

Sorry about that, didn't mean to offend anyone.

I honestly have preached that Hillary would be the next president since the year 2000, and could not wait to vote for her. She changed my mind though during her campaign. My choice of words was not good, but I assure you, I have nothing against a woman being in the White House.

I can also see that you are needing ammunition for your sexism argument.
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 1833
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:02:42 PM
I wonder what they'd say if we called her a d!ck. Or said she needs to find her sack. Because honestly, I think she's got a bigger set than a lot of guys I know.
 uninterested

Joined: 4/26/2008
Msg: 1834
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:35:50 PM
Here's an article written by Nancy Greggs.
She is a writer for the Democratic underground.
I think she gives some rather sensible advice in this column.


Rather than respond to some of the individuals who have been posting replies to my most recent threads or posts, I thought I’d simply address them all at once.

Alas, many (alleged) Hillary supporters here seem to be unaware of the fact that most DUers have access to their other posts on other threads, and are acutely aware of their positions, their words and their overall behavior.

Here’s a handy list of “don’ts” if you are seriously trying to make a point – or, alternatively, wish to be taken seriously.

Don’t quote previously-reviled RW bullshit artists and tell me they are now acceptable and/or reliable sources of opinion and/or news about Democratic candidates, the party as a whole, or that they offer a legitimate analysis of how our primary should be run.

Don’t point me to “opinion” pieces and tout them as unbiased journalism based on actual facts, poll results, or statistics. And in the name of all that is holy, don’t cite your own opinion as the last word on any subject.

Don’t post sweeping generalizations (e.g. millions of Democrats think Obama is running a dirty campaign) unless you have some stats to prove your point – or, in the alternative, you can actually name those millions of Democrats individually.

Don’t tell me my anger over Clinton’s remarks about “assassination” or “white voters” is “faux outrage” – especially when you’re the same person who posted endlessly about the catastrophic implications of “snub-gate” and “bitter-gate”.

Don’t tell me I don’t understand sexism, or refuse to acknowledge its existence, when I point out the obvious fact that Hillary Clinton has not lost the nomination due to the fact she’s a female.

Don’t insist that Hillary has always been adamant (regardless of her pledge and comments to the contrary) that the votes in FL and MI be counted, unless you can provide a link to any actual statement, from the candidate herself, to that effect pre-losing.

Don’t post the daily talking points from Hillary sites, verbatim, on cue and en masse, and tell me that I’m the kool-aid drinking cultist.

Don’t post replies that state, “You Obamabots are ****ed-up in the head,” and then decry the childish tactic of name-calling.

Don’t state that if Hillary isn’t the nominee, you are leaving the Party, sitting out the election, or voting for McCain, followed by a statement that it is the Obama supporters who are ruining our chances to win in November.

Don’t tell me you won’t vote for Obama because his supporters have been mean to you on this website or any other, and expect to be treated as though you are a mature, politically astute adult.

Don’t post “Obama will NEVER WIN the GE” – with or without the gratuitous threat to come back and yell I told you so after the loss you are so obviously hoping for – along with your heartfelt assurances that you’re a loyal Democrat who has the party’s best interests at heart.

Don’t declare that Obama – who is ahead in delegates and SDs – is about to “steal the election through backroom deals” while, at the same time, promoting the idea that if Hillary can convince those same delegates and SDs to change their minds and vote for her, despite the will of the people, she will be the legitimate nominee.

Don’t talk about Hillary’s sniper-fire whopper and Obama’s comment about “fifty-seven states” as being comparable examples of inadvertently mis-speaking.

Don’t wag your finger in my face and say “shame, shame” when I criticize your candidate for something she has actually said or done, while countering with what Obama’s supporters have said or done.

Don’t accuse me of being pissed-off by the MSM’s interpretation of Hillary’s statements when I’ve heard them for myself, firsthand, and been pissed-off by their content, not the spin.

Don’t lecture me about being divisive when I fail to coddle those among you who refuse to unite behind our nominee without being courted, romanced, and baby-talked into doing what’s right for our party, and our country.

Don’t tell me that I, as an Obama supporter, am somehow responsible for convincing you, as a Hillary supporter, that Obama (D) is preferable to McCain (R).

All this to say that WE WILL WIN this come November – with or without you. So just keep don’t-ing if you must, while the rest of us keep our eye on the prize.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/NanceGreggs/393
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 1835
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:43:18 PM
That was great, thanks for posting it, uninterested. It is at least a little comforting to know it's not just us...sounds kind of universal.
I hope after the 3rd some of this sinks in and the party will come back to its' collective conscience, because we will need to stand united in November. That's what it boils down to. We don't want another mistake in Washington.
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 1836
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:59:47 PM
Wow... things are moving right along. (no pun intended... seriously..it just dawned on me when I wrote it how it could sound).

loveOregon got called on the carpet for using the 'B' word.
uninterested now has a face.

And.............

H. Clinton is losing for the same reason she was mucho pages back. A Media who is having a love affair with Obama. This isn't just a quickie BJ (b/w) the Media and Obama. It's a 'let's get hitched' type of deal.

Not to worry... the heat is already starting towards McCain and it will continue to be turned up. Nobody... Nobody puts Baby (Obama) in a corner (to coin a classic line from 'Dirty Dancing')

You know you're old when 'Dirty Dancing' is a 'classic'.
 spitfire6844

Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 1837
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 12:27:45 AM
It's interesting how Hillary is reduced to getting an endorsement from Ricky Martin at this crucial phase of her failed campaign...... not even a decent entertainer like Luis Miguel or J-Lo. Hillary needs governors and senators to endorse her--not a washed-up entertainer.

Loveoregon was a little rough in his verbiage; but he's dead-on that many voters had a positive opinion of Hillary until she started participating in this campaign cycle. Hillary herself has caused many voters to do a complete 180º in how they view her. Hillary's biggest detriment has been herself, not the media and not even Obama.
 Bluesman2008

Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 1838
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 12:40:44 AM
A washed up entertainer for a washed up candidate. Seems appropriate to me.
 Vyper®

Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 1839
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 1:12:41 AM
A wounded cat, I tell ya; a wounded cat.

She's dying slowly and loudly -- yet certainly.

And all of our arguing our respective points won't do a damned thing to stop the steady, unidirectional trickle of superdelegates which will elect the Democratic nominee.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 1840
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 1:25:27 AM
I think I heard a rumor that Vanilla Ice is throwing in his endorsement to Hillary, along with MC Hammer.

They are going to do a video together on Hillary's overwhelming lead, called "Can't Touch This, Obama baby" . Andrew Dice Clay may do a cameo in it.

Do-do-do-do-do....do-do...do-do
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 1841
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:41:34 AM
Obama believes ethnic cleansing is a good thing????

This from September, 2007:

Barack talks about Iraq with Today Show's David Gregory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB9HF4Thjls

About 1 minute in he gives some of the reasons there had been previously a modest decrease in violence and says these are all "positive things". But one of those "positive things" he says reduced violence is that "entire neighborhoods have been essentially ethnically cleansed"!?!?

I think this is another case where Obama does not realize what he's saying, or put more harshly, he has no idea of what he's talking about.
Like in the case of his Memorial Day speech, where he said:
"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes, and I see many of them in the audience today..."
In that case it looks like he didn't know the difference between Memorial Day, where we honor soldiers killed in action, and Veterans Day, where we honor all veterans who served.
Here he doesn't seem to know that ethnic cleansing means that in a neighborhood all members of the opposing religious sect were either killed or forced to move.
We need to demand an explanation from the Obama campaign for why he says this is a good thing.

PhillyFellow
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 1842
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:55:55 AM

About 1 minute in he gives some of the reasons there had been previously a modest decrease in violence and says these are all "positive things". But one of those "positive things" he says reduced violence is that "entire neighborhoods have been essentially ethnically cleansed"!?!?


In context, that's correct. That "ethnic cleansing" is indeed a large reason why Iraq's violence is lower today than it was. That exodus of opposing sects, and erection of large blast walls around those areas ((by the USA) , coupled with the mass migration of refugees out of the country is EXACTLY what has lowered the rates of killings - to a large part.

Watch "Baghdad : City Of Walls" , the documentary from an Iraqi film maker on exactly this topic.

Thus these actions have been "positive" in the reduction of violence.




In the face of ongoing confrontations between US-Iraqi forces and Shiite militias in Baghdad's Sadr City neighborhood, US forces began work this week on a concrete barrier to protect against militia intrusions. Other neighborhoods with such walls have seen marked improvement in the security situation, though some residents credit anti-Al Qaeda groups, which have been targeted by suicide bombers this week.

The New York Times reports that US forces hope that the huge concrete wall will slow the southward spread of militia fighters from the heart of the heavily Shiite neighborhood, which has been a combat zone for the past several weeks as US and Iraqi forces fight members of Moqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army.

The construction, which began Tuesday night, is intended to turn the southern quarter of Sadr City near the international Green Zone into a protected enclave, secured by Iraqi and American forces, where the Iraqi government can undertake reconstruction efforts.

"You can't really repair anything that is broken until you establish security," said Lt. Col. Dan Barnett, commander of the First Squadron, Second Stryker Cavalry Regiment. "A wall that isolates those who would continue to attack the Iraqi Army and coalition forces can create security conditions that they can go in and rebuild."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0418/p99s01-duts.html



On the PBS NewsHour last night, AEI scholar Fred Kagan (one of the main architects of the surge strategy, though he was not identified as such by host Jim Lehrer) made a startling assertion about the situation on the ground in Iraq:

Well, there’s a magnificent myth out there…that there are no mixed areas in Iraq anymore and that the cleansing is completed. … Now, [these neighborhoods] are more consolidated than they had been before, certainly.

In August 2007, the Iraqi Red Crescent Organization indicated that “the total number of internally displaced Iraqis [had] more than doubled, to 1.1 million from 499,000? since the surge started in February. Center for American Progress Iraq analyst Brian Katulis estimated that Baghdad, which once used to be a 65 percent Sunni majority city, “is now 75 percent Shia.”

In December, the Washington Post published a map comparing the sectarian distribution of Baghdad’s neighborhoods in April 2006 and November 2007, showing the transformation of the city that has resulted from Iraq’s civil war.


http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/12/kagan-ethnic-cleansing/


Without that easy access to one another, violence has decreased.
 fridayboo

Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 1843
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:17:56 AM
It will be over next week and on to the general election
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 1844
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:29:49 AM
You're missing the point, MG. It's the means by which this was accomplished that is at question here. There was ethnic cleansing in Bosnia too. Sure if allowed to continue that would have ended the violence between the ethnic groups - by killing off all the other ethnic groups that the Serbs wanted to remove.

PhillyFellow
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 1845
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:34:16 AM
This "ethnic cleansing" doesn't involve killing - just forcing people out. That's why the numbers of dead Iraqis has declined.

1) They are no longer being killed.
2) They are now separated.

Were they still being killed, the reduction in Iraqi deaths would not have occurred.

Is this "good" ?

In context, in that reduction in the Iraqi death toll, the answer is yes.
 PhillyFellow

Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 1846
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:39:25 AM
MG, nobody who watches the news reports on the violence in Iraq would say it doesn't involve killing off the members of the different Islamic sect that lives in an area dominated by the other sect, mostly between Sunni and Shiite Moslems.


PhillyFellow
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 1847
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:47:21 AM
It DID......it no longer does (in the same numbers).
 easyoneverything

Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 1848
Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:41:20 AM
Simmah -

“Well, hope is a good thing, but I hope you're not holding your breath on that one.”

“I hope after the 3rd some of this sinks in and the party will come back to its' collective conscience, because we will need to stand united in November.”

I hope you’re not holding YOUR breath on that one. I think this is about to evolve into one of the ugliest presidential campaigns ever. I don’t think Obama is prepared whatsoever for the Republican strategy to defeat him. I think McCain will do an outstanding job of distancing himself from Bush, and I think he will win big in those swing states that Obama bombed in (and, I have to say it, Clinton won handily, or would have won if the votes counted).

After November 2nd, when another Republican sits in the Oval Office, the collective democratic gnashing of teeth and what went wrong will be a sad and sorry thing to see.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 1849
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:43:19 AM
Well, even Rupert Murdoch disagrees with you.


May 29, 2008
Murdoch predicts McCain will lose

Posted: 03:30 PM ET

(CNN) – Rupert Murdoch offered a dire prediction Wednesday for John McCain's chances in the general election.

He will lose in a landslide, the News Corp. chairman said at a California conference, according to Reuters.

"You have got the Obama phenomenon, Murdoch said. "You have got, undoubtedly, a recession … The average American is really getting hurt financially and that all bodes well for [Obama].

"You have probably the making of a complete phenomenon in this country," Murdoch continued, referring to what he thinks will be an overwhelming victory for the Democratic presidential candidate.

The News Corp. chairman, often viewed as a messenger for the Republican Party given his holdings include several media organizations with a conservative bent, also showered praise on the Illinois senator, calling him a "rock star."

While calling himself a friend of McCain, Murdoch said his lengthy stint in Congress has led the Arizona senator to make so many compromises that it is not clear where he stands on the major issues. He also called McCain "unpredictable," and questioned his knowledge on economic issues.

News Corp's holdings include Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, and the New York Post. The Post endorsed Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton earlier this year.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/29/murdoch-predicts-mccain-will-lose/
 spitfire6844

Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 1850
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Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:18:06 AM

I don’t think Obama is prepared whatsoever for the Republican strategy to defeat him.


Obama hasn't been the one whining about how he's been treated in the campaign. I haven't heard McCain whining either. We've heard Hillary (and her followers) lamenting her treatment repeatedly. Given the 5-year free publicity run (overwhelmingly positive) that Hillary got leading up to this campaign, any whining is unacceptable.

There isn't anyone in politics or on this thread who isn't aware that both Obama and McCain will be trashed during the general election campaign. It goes with the territory, and I respect both candidates for dealing with it without complaining.
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