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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 10:04:02 AM | There are positive traits for these people as well.
I'm impressed with Obama's work ethic and his energy.
McCain is the strong Commander-In-Chief candidate and I like his maverick viewpoints.
It's sort of hard to come up with something likeable about Hillary. I guess I'm impressed how tolerated her husband's public infidelity.
Getting back to this thread title, Why is Hillary losing?, I suppose if she loses it will be because she simply isn't as popular or dynamic as Obama or McCain. She certainly isn't as likeable. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 10:07:08 AM | | I just love the way shes throwing that vice presidents chair Baracks way, when she is the one who is losing. I think she is just hoping Barack will do the same for her when she loses. I hope he doesnt. One of them is bad enough. I think she is losing because she is on a power trip. And everyone see right through her. | |
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mj999
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Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 178 | |
| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 10:16:06 AM | Bikeman said: "I guess I'm impressed how tolerated her husband's public infidelity".
It had to have been tough, but there was a good reason why she tolerated it and it had less to do with forgiveness than with her desire to remain in the White House and materialize her political ambitions. Would she be a presidential candidate today if she had left Bill?. I am not so sure. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 10:18:04 AM | I just love the way shes throwing that vice presidents chair Baracks way, when she is the one who is losing. I think she is just hoping Barack will do the same for her when she loses. I hope he doesnt. One of them is bad enough. I think she is losing because she is on a power trip. And everyone see right through her. She certainly is adept at jamming her foot into her mouth when talking. She needs to succinctly point out actual differences between her and Obama, and she really isn't that good at talking about herself. In some ways I can appreciate that (Obama's chest-thumping orations turn me off), but then when she goes negative on Obama I start to wonder why she isn't emphasizing what's positive about herself instead.
It had to have been tough, but there was a good reason why she tolerated it and it had less to do with forgiveness than with her desire to remain in the White House and materialize her political ambitions. Would she be a presidential candidate today if she had left Bill?. I am not so sure. I'm not so sure about this, she might have been a stronger candidate in many people's eyes if she divorced the philanderer. I think she really loves Bill, that's why she forgave him. There's lots to like about Bill Clinton, I think Hillary is best to answer this one, I'm certainly not speaking for her. The knee-jerk reaction certainly is to give the cheater a big swift kick in his arse (which she probably did in private).
She does seem power-hungry, but then explain how Obama is less power-hungry? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 11:31:34 AM |
I do recognize she has a "unique" experience.
Yes. A "unique" experience which is largely embellished or fabricated, according to independent prosecutor Robert Ray and longtime Clinton aide Greg Craig, among others. The only long-term results a Hillary Clinton Administration would generate are lawsuits and depositions.
The good news is that when Hillary definitively loses this thing, she'll never get another chance at it in the future. The public won't stomach a 2nd Hillary presidential run, and will move on to other candidates in future elections.  | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 11:53:07 AM |
She needs to succinctly point out actual differences between her and Obama, and she really isn't that good at talking about herself. In some ways I can appreciate that (Obama's chest-thumping orations turn me off), but then when she goes negative on Obama I start to wonder why she isn't emphasizing what's positive about herself instead.
The difference is she's the exact same, fear-mongering, negative-campaigning, entrenched candidate we keep getting in the White House. She's GREAT about talking herself up, I can't figure out why you said she isn't.
Obama's "chest thumping"? You mean how he's trying to inspire an entire, down-in-the-dumps nation? How he is able to get people EXCITED about a post-Bush future? How he makes people feel like they can make a difference?
Whoever ends up in the White House will NOT be able to turn this country around single-handedly. The President's job is to have a hand on the wheel, but the PEOPLE are the engine that drives this nation. The people... all of us reading this... can get this country back on the right track, but only if we have a leader who can inspire us do get off our asses and do it.
Just look at the TURN OUTS and tell me, which of the Democratic candidates are bringing them out? That's our next president.
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 12:43:01 PM |
The difference is she's the exact same, fear-mongering, negative-campaigning, entrenched candidate we keep getting in the White House. She's GREAT about talking herself up, I can't figure out why you said she isn't. She doesn't talk about herself in a convincing way for anyone who is on the bubble about their opinion about her (is there anyone on the bubble??) She needs to stick to issues. Identify the key issues where she has differences with Obama. Then sell why her positions are better than Obama's. Sell the American public on her positions on those issues. She doesn't do this well. There's no reason why Obama's got her beat on this "change" issue. She ought to explain how she can implement policies similar to those that Bill Clinton helped to implement during a period of extensive financial success for the country. If she doesn't do this, she shouldn't belly-ache about how the nomination was stolen from her--she didn't earn it. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 1:55:20 PM | | She is alien form, reptillian, shape shifter...plus she smells bad. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 7:39:56 PM | Sounds like someone from the evil Dominion (Deep Space 9 fans would know what I am talking about) Good description of Shillary
Obama just won Mississippi today | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/11/2008 9:52:26 PM | [qu0te]She ought to explain how she can implement policies similar to those that Bill Clinton helped to implement during a period of extensive financial success for the country.
There's no tech boom on the horizon to provide the same wave that Bill rode. She can say how she'll try which would be refreshing, but policies had little to do with it. Bill sold the other jobs to China for campaign cash and we're paying for it now. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 12:43:47 AM | Obama just won Mississippi today
And the Texas caucus, as well. Not to mention Wyoming. Next up: Pennsylvania.
I predict (completely unscientifically and without substantiation) that Barack will get his ass handed to him there, suffering a devastating net loss of 34 pledged delegates to the nomination salutatorian, Hillary Clinton. With that 34-delegate net gain, she will shear her delegate-count deficit down to a svelte 128 (pledged)/96 (total) delegates, with 936 (not including John Edwards' 26) remaining to be awarded (351 of which are the so-called "superdelegates" ... why do I hear the music from the Justice League playing in my head?!  Wendy? Marvin?? Aquaman??? ... Is that Wonder Woman's invisible jet?!!). | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 1:07:04 AM | Assuming further, just for the sake of discussion (since I'm awake at this ungodly hour), Hillary was to win an average of 55% of all of the remaining delegates (still not including Edwards' 26), and Barack was to win an average of 45%, she would add another 515 (and he, 420 -- for the "420-friendly" posters among us), bringing her total to 1993, with Barack at 2028 (clinching the critical "2025/magic" number, needed to secure the nomination).
With this contest proceeding as hotly-contested as it has been thus far -- with delegate allocations granting small victory margins to each of the candidates, as we move from state to state, it seems unlikely that either would be able to maintain an average ten-percentage-point lead over the other. Consequently, it seems (to me, at least) that -- at least for Hillary -- the end game (and any chance of securing the nomination) rests ENTIRELY in securing SIGNIFICANTLY more than half of the remaining superdelegates (barring some event that might cause present or future Obama supporters to suddenly flee Barack's camp like ... I don't know ... maybe some kind of prostitution-ring scandal ). If that is, in fact, correct about Hillary's shot, that would give rise to the question I have seen pop up on occasion:
SHOULD SUPERDELEGATES PUT THEIR SUPPORT BEHIND THE CANDIDATE INDICATED AS "CHOSEN" BY THE WILL OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, OR SHOULD THEY VOTE AS THEIR PERSONAL JUDGMENT TELLS THEM IS THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 2:54:53 AM | Just curious ... anyone here think that John Edwards is going to nudge his delegates to back Hillary?  | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 7:08:08 AM |
SHOULD SUPERDELEGATES PUT THEIR SUPPORT BEHIND THE CANDIDATE INDICATED AS "CHOSEN" BY THE WILL OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, OR SHOULD THEY VOTE AS THEIR PERSONAL JUDGMENT TELLS THEM IS THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS? If the candidate is chosen by all constituents then they should probably bend to the will of the people but the caucuses don't represent all voters most people only vote in the general election. As I stated before Obamas is doing well because a small percentage of the population is turning out for the caucuses who normally do not vote in them this is giving him the lead that he has. The general election is a different story. As for people voting for Mcain if Obama doesn't get the nomination the same can be said about many Hillary supporters. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 7:31:56 AM | To show you what I mean by just "not getting it", here's a PERFECT example.
Later, Hillary was asked about the Muslim smears and what she thought of them. Her wishy-washy response was "As far as I know" he's not a Muslim.
"As far as I know"...... 
She's that scared and frustrated, that she'll stoop to this ?
She had a really great chance here, GIVEN to her. A gift.
She could have said something like this :
"Listen, for someone who has had this type of rumor spread about me, I know how it feels probably better than anyone else. In all those years in Washington (hint: subtle insertion of "experience" ) , I've had people do this to me.
I think it's time for all of us to take a stand here. It's true that my fellow Senator and I are in a tough race, and we have many differences of opinion .
On one thing, we don't disagree.
We both want what's best for this great country.
Let me be the first to tell you that I know and respect Senator Obama, and I think those that want to somehow try and imply that he is a Muslim falsely are doing a great harm to the him - and to this country.
It implies that being a Muslim is a bad thing, essentially. That's what these people are trying to say, however indirectly, and that is morally and factually wrong.
It also implies something, in the case of the Senator, that is a lie.
Now you can take him to task on many things, and you can do the same with me, but let those things be matters of policy, issues, and backgrounds.
Let those decide this race, and nothing else.
Not lies and insinuations....
Guess what ?
She looks great, and she starts to take the high ground. She starts to unite people against a common enemy. She places the focus on the issues.
She gains ground even with potential Obama supporters, and even Muslims.
She starts to look like a leader.
But what does she do ? She misses it all to get a few more votes in a tight race.
That's why she's losing..... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 7:40:34 AM | MG you and I would be great candidate managers, we think so much alike...
Good post
Obama fires a staff member who publicily claims Hillary is a "Monster"
But Hillary herself says when asked if Obama is a Muslim can only muster up a "As far as I know?" kind of comment.
And to believe people really want someone like her as President, heck I don't want someone like that living next door to me, let alone being the leader of the free world...
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 9:48:18 AM | I agree with you wholeheartedly, Insolent1 @msg 189, that caucuses do not represent all voters. They only represent those who choose to participate in that state's chosen candidate selection process (as does the primary). The fact remains, however, that many states have continued their usage -- reliably -- for decades to select candidates. So it strikes me as unreasonable and suspect to suggest that somehow -- this time -- that selection process lacks the measure of validity and credibility with which it has been credited in elections of the last four decades.
So, while NEITHER process will capture the will of the entire electorate, the method chosen by a given state represents the best available assessment of that will. Moreover, whether a state chooses the primary and/or the caucus, the question presented remains the same:
SHOULD SUPERDELEGATES PUT THEIR SUPPORT BEHIND THE CANDIDATE INDICATED AS "CHOSEN" BY THE WILL OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, OR SHOULD THEY VOTE AS THEIR PERSONAL JUDGMENT TELLS THEM IS THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:15:51 AM | Just curious ... anyone here think that John Edwards is going to nudge his delegates to back Hillary?
I think Edwards is closer in terms of his ideology (poverty issues), to Obama than to Hillary. Also, Edwards is a big believer in running positive campaigns, and Obama's has generally been more upbeat and less negative than Hillary's (Obama has done some attack campaigning, but mostly in response to Hillary's attacks.) Both Obama and Hillary have met with Edwards several times, so he's had the chance to hear them out on whatever is of concern to him.
Also, it's not likely that Edwards has forgotten the Clintons' lack of support for the Kerry/Edwards ticket in 2004. The Clintons were backing Wes Clark for the Dem. nomination, and after Kerry beat Clark for the nomination, the consensus is that the Clintons thumbed their noses at Kerry and didn't throw their full weight behind him. Kerry sure as hell hasn't forgotten it, and I doubt that Edwards has either. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:28:13 AM | Hillary is losing for several reasons:
She is not likeable and now that she is trying to loosen up is even less so.
Contrary to those singing his praises, not everyone wants Bill back in the White House because they don't believe he won't try and run the show from behind the scenes.
People, especially young people, are tired of politicians and their conniving ways and therefore voting for someone who may actually have integrity and change Washington for the better is an attractive alternative. Knocking Obama for his lack of experience will not matter to these people because they consider it just more mud slinging.
Personally, I do think his lack of experience is a factor, but he will have advisors around him. I'm hoping he wins the nomination just so Hillary and Bill get their noses rubbed in it but in the general election I think McCain is the better choice, though I don't particularly like him either. He's just the lesser evil. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:30:40 AM | I agree completely, Spitfire. I was mainly for contrary opinions ...  | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 1:54:25 PM | | Hillary is loosing because she is trying to win at all costs...and that makes her unlikeable..... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 2:15:40 PM | I will say that if there is anything about which I do like Hillary for it would be what she's had to put up with from her husband. Infidelity is painful and an ultimate betrayal. I don't envy her the pain she's felt and I admire her for keeping on in spite of it. That's why I will never, ever support the insinuations that she stayed with him just for political gain because even if she has, she has felt pain. That's verboten territory with regards to her as far as I'm concerned.
Now I will give Bill no quarter on that. If you can betray the one who loves you so willingly, freely, and often then what the hell is a faceless constituency to him? Why would he not so easily betray us and I think he did. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 3:26:50 PM | I, for one, don't put a tremendous amount of stock in the whole "experience" argument. It's NOT as though -- WHOEVER the commander-in-chief ultimately will be -- that individual will be running the country utilizing solely his/her own wits. He/she will have SCORES of advisors and "experts" from each and every field germane to his/her decision, with which to consult. If that were the case, I suspect that we could reliably count on major faux pas from whoever that candidate was. And, since our presidents don't spend much time composing statutes, I'm not sure how relevant being a legislator is toward the task to "leading" our country and representing us and our interests abroad. Additionally, if-- just for hoots and giggles -- we pretended that "being married to a former-president" doesn't count as "experience," then what we have left is Hillary's seven years as a federal legislator versus Barack's seven years as a state legislator AND additional three years as a federal legislator.
So what, exactly, IS this "experience" that -- in and of itself -- makes Hillary a "more qualified" candidate for the presidency, and why is it dispositive (or even relevant) in light of the fact that presidential decisions come subsequent to, and as a result of, thoughtful deliberation, after consultation with a panel of advisors and experts?
In my humble opinion, what is more critical is that the person is not: (1) fanatical; (2) a "know-it-all"; (3) egomaniacal; or (4)possessive of other character flaws that might preclude them from making reasonable use of the expert counsel afforded them. And I think both Hillary and Barack are safe bets from that vantage.  | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 3/12/2008 3:39:49 PM |
Infidelity is painful and an ultimate betrayal. I don't envy her the pain she's felt and I admire her for keeping on in spite of it.
True. One of the things which is notable about Hillary was her willingness to stay in the marriage after the affairs. She was a good wife and showed her loyalty to Bill there. I don't think it was contrived at all (although much of her other behavior is). This is the one area where Hillary is to be commended. | |
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