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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:02:45 PM | | I don't have to agree with all policies Hillary was the best choice of the three..now she is gone and we are down to two..am definitely not pro choice,the war is what it is.... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:03:30 PM | "not supporting Obama is what people have been saying for weeks now, cutting off your own nose to spite your face. But your'e not only cutting off your own nose, you're cutting off America's nose. It's spiteful and immature, and pointless."
Well now don't have a hissy! Just because Clinton votes aren't heading over to Camp Obama without being sold on what he stands for, which is, well, confusing at best. A lot of Clinton supporters don't think it was a fair fight, despite what y'all think, and perception is everything. Since it's their vote you're after, you might want to consider some of their argument instead of dismissing it out of hand and engaging in insult, guilt and shaming tactics to get your way, and stamping your feet when you don't get it fast enough. Talk about immature and pointless!' | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:07:10 PM | lol You're telling me not to have a hissy....priceless. And for the 20th time, how can you not be 'sold on his policies' when they were virtually the same exact policies of Hillary's?
You're the one that gets emotional, not I. So please stop trying to deflect my questions with name calling. It takes so much away from what you're trying to say, honestly. You can get your point across without making someone else look stupid (i.e. bobble headed puff boy....and so many other insults that have been flung out there so as to make Obama supporters look like idiots for their choice which does not agree with your own). Have a nice night....sweetie. ;) | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:07:56 PM | ?I never once said that was your exact words, either. Stop internalizing this whole thing. It's a valid question that I asked of you, edisto, missblueeyes, philly....everyone who is using sexism as the reason she didn't go "all the way". And you still didn't speak to it."
Nonsense. You quoted me at the start of your post! Of course I am responding to it personally. Have you read ANY of the links posted on the subject of the media's sexist coverage of this campaign? I believe there has been a resounding response to your question. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:08:51 PM | I don't have to agree with all policies Hillary was the best choice of the three..now she is gone and we are down to two..am definitely not pro choice,the war is what it is..
So you must be for her universal healthcare plan and against the Bush tax cuts. Insolent, you don't support Hillary. You're against Obama. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:08:54 PM | | There may be support for your own ideas in those links, but the question remains unanswered. I am starting to suspect there is no answer you can provide. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:15:51 PM | "And for the 20th time, how can you not be 'sold on his policies' when they were virtually the same exact policies of Hillary's?"
I've heard him debate. Like a dying cod.
"You're the one that gets emotional, not I. "
Now, THAT's priceless!
"So please stop trying to deflect my questions with name calling."
Did I call you a name - like Mary Sunshine or sweetie or such? I don't recall having done so. I suggested your argument was agitated - 'hissy" in fact, that's not a personal insult. Perhaps you want to reread your own advice?
" You can get your point across without making someone else look stupid (i.e. bobble headed puff boy"...and so many other insults that have been flung out there so as to make Obama supporters look like idiots for their choice which does not agree with your own"
But it's ok for Obama supporters to diss Hillary isn't it. In fact, the entire primary, there was Hillary getting slammed by the media and Obama supporters just standing there having a big giggle. Now Obama takes a few hits, and ooohweee the gloves come off in a hurry.
" Have a nice night....sweetie. ;)"
Please re-read your advice about hurling insults and it diminishing the strength of your argument. I do believe you've fallen prey. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:17:45 PM | | what is so hard to understand..No one can agree with everything about a candidate, I reviewed all of their records and stances on the issues ..I think Clinton was of the three the one with whom I was most comfortable voting, now I think it will be McCain or not voting...Obama has to many variables that I find troubling..one is the theology of his church ..seriously a President that believes the Black Liberation Theology.....his dedication to the African American community is admirable and troubling to me at the same time..if you read his stance on the issues , the statements he has made and proposals if elected, it is hard to imagine that he really has any real concern for the average White working American... | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:18:09 PM | "There may be support for your own ideas in those links, but the question remains unanswered. I am starting to suspect there is no answer you can provide"
What it is you don't understand? Perhaps I have not understood your question? Would you like to re-state it? | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:21:38 PM | Please re-read your advice about hurling insults and it diminishing the strength of your argument. I do believe you've fallen prey.
Sorry, you did tell me I was "stamping my feet and having a temper tantrum". lol I find it funny though...giving me a much needed laugh in the middle of the night here.
If you have read any of my posts, I have actually given Hillary a lot of credit, and I won't take that back. She has her good points. She is not right for the job of the president IMO. A lot of people agreed. Just because you do not does not make me bad or stupid.
LOL Oh good Lord would I like to re-state my question. Sure. Just for kicks and grins.
Here goes.
Why is it that you are so 'afraid' of Obama...when in fact he has nearly 100% the same voting record, senate experience (maybe not years but actual number of bills worked on) and platform as the candidate you formerly supported?
That was it...again. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:24:14 PM | I'm starting to feel overloaded with the term "sexism" in regards to Hillary's campaign. Her supporters have pretty well made the word meaningless by using it way too much.
They are probably sitting around watching youtube videos where someone's pointing out how "sexist" it was that Obama used the word "periodically" (you couldn't make this shyt up) in response to Hillary's mood swings. No doubt when he used the term "the claws came out" - that was sexist too (although male cats also have claws that come out).
Thank God that the candidate of choice of such irrational and petty people is out of the race. She's done. Sayanora. Buh-bye Hillary (Oh and take that fool of a husband with you).
Lets get on to some important politics now. The race where the candidates deemed worthy of their respective party's nominations will battle it out for the Whitehouse. The race that Hillary probably would have been involved in had she not blown the biggest lead ever handed to a candidate.
Bye bye Hillary.  | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:31:52 PM |
what is so hard to understand..No one can agree with everything about a candidate
You don't agree with Hillary's stance on abortion, the war in Iraq, universal healthcare, the Bush tax cuts? I'm just dying to know what you support about her platform. Only this time, if you decide to respond, try not to bring Obama into your post. My guess is that you were for McCain the whole time and just "misspoke" when you said you are a Hillary supporter.
It's ok to admit that you were trying to mislead us. This has been a common practice in this forum as of late. You're not the only one doing it from your side of the aisle. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/13/2008 11:41:50 PM | Seriously? You forget calling me sweetie and Mary Sunshine? Because I kinda view those as personal insults, having nothing to do with one's argument. But whatever.
I have actually read ALL of your posts and you have given Clinton some credit. You're perfectly entitled to your erroneous view :-) that she was not right for the job of president. Just like her supporters are entitled to their view that Obama doesn't have what it takes.
Yes, a lot of people agdently supporter either Obama or Clinton. And if Obama supporters (not YOU of course!) can call Clinton supporters stupid and ignorant of the facts as they interpreted them, I guess it's a "fair and square process" when Clinton supporters can throw it back at them, isn't it? I think that balances out pretty well,
The superdelegates really tilted this one, so let's neither of us pretend that Obama 'won' the popular vote.
Thanks for re-stating your question:
"Why is it that you are so 'afraid' of Obama...when in fact he has nearly 100% the same voting record, senate experience (maybe not years but actual number of bills worked on) and platform as the candidate you formerly supported? "
I am not 'afraid' of Obama. See above - I just don't think he has what it takes for the job. Neither do a lot of people. Perhaps he can change our minds in time, but one thing for certain, his supporters aren't helping! Meanwhile, since the candidate they have supported is out, Clinton supporters are in a quandry. You don't see it because you support Obama. Fair enough. But that doesn't mean their quandry is any less valid just because you don't see it. See? :-)
Many Clinton supporters think Obama benefitted greatly from the sexist media lynching of Hillary Clinton and should have called foul. Or the DNC should have called foul. So the fury directed via withheld votes is perhaps a way of articulating this message: If you don't care about issues important to us, why should we care about you?" It's not too hard to figure out, it's just really hard to accept now that Obama supporters realize how badly they need those votes and how little they've done to secure them. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/14/2008 4:34:49 AM | In message 2293, you said some may give in and vote for Obama despite their own fears. That's where that's coming from in my question.
You are asking me/us to see your view that Hillary was treated unfairly....and Obama supporters also have some of the same concerns regarding his treatment. We're both right and we're both wrong. The decision in Michigan and Florida was not fair to anyone. It's not right, or fair, but it's not going to change. To say that Obama supporters are not helping to change your mind and get behind the candidate that Hillary now herself supports, is like saying hey I thought I might vote for the guy, but every day driving to work I'd see all these bumper stickers....
All I'm saying is that if anyone truly aligns with democratic party policies and principals, to vote for McCain based on anger toward the democratic candidate is totally throwing away your vote. I'll reiterate a post I made earlier. Vote on the issues, not on the trivia. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/14/2008 9:59:16 AM | "I'll reiterate a post I made earlier. Vote on the issues, not on the trivia."
And I'll reiterate mine. When Obama starts debating the issues, Clinton supporters who are still sitting on the fence will determine what they're going to do with their vote. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/14/2008 10:26:38 AM | ^^ All it takes is a little simple research. Not to mention, he's debated the issues, with Hillary herself, 22 times. And also in several bipartisan debates.
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/14/2008 10:32:06 AM |
The superdelegates really tilted this one, so let's neither of us pretend that Obama 'won' the popular vote.
If the superdelegates did not exist, Obama still would have won due to his lead in pledged delegates. Who won the popular vote is arguable and depends on which criteria are used. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:47:14 PM |
I never once said that was your exact words, either. Stop internalizing this whole thing. It's a valid question that I asked of you, edisto, missblueeyes, philly....everyone who is using sexism as the reason she didn't go "all the way". And you still didn't speak to it.
I am not a woman so I wouldn't feel sexism as keenly as some woman Hillary supporters do. I don't feel it was as big an issue among *voters* as it was the among largely male reporters. Their constant drumbeat for her to leave the race when in prior cases with male candidate who trailed by far larger numbers there were no such calls will be viewed in journalism in the years to come as a black mark on their profession.
However, for me the overwhelmingly important reason why she has not yet gained the nomination is that two entire states that Obama lost big in were cancelled out.
Since the DNC went against their own rules to do this they bear a big part of responsibility for why it happened.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/14/2008 1:31:26 PM | There are alternatives to voting for John McCain for those who supported Hillary but are not comfortable with Barack Obama: Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. I agree with some things he has to say but not with others. I would take Bob Barr ANY day over John McSame--McCain wants to continue the damage that Bushboy has inflicted on our nation.
While I am an Obama supporter, I do have respect for and like Bob Barr. He's come a long way from being a right wing nut to having much more moderate positions on various issues. He has grown and learned as a man, unlike John McCain who has not become a better person with time. I can not blame someone for choosing to vote for Bob Barr and would not hold it against someone for doing so. Bob Barr's ideas are very different from Bushboy's and that's what we need--change. I believe that a vote for Barack Obama or Bob Barr is a vote for change. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/14/2008 10:51:36 PM | "All it takes is a little simple research. Not to mention, he's debated the issues, with Hillary herself, 22 times. And also in several bipartisan debates."
Oh! Well, I guess simple is as simple does.
I watched the debates, and for me, it wasn't so cut and dried. I thought Obama was dreadful, flip-flopping, unsure of what he was trying to say or trying hard not to say much of anything. Even among rabid Obama supporters, there is general acknowledgement that he is not as good at debating as he is at orating. I can't recall anyone saying Obama definitively won any debates, unless it was his campaign advisors.
Mybe he's learned a thing or two about debating since then. I'll listen with an open mind. Just not so open my brain falls out, as my pastor liked to say. So far, I'm not convinced and uninspired. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:50:51 AM | there is general acknowledgement that he is not as good at debating as he is at orating. I get turned off when I see the sales schtick coming. Everything out of Obama's mouth sounds like schtick. Personally I like McCain's calm demeanor when speaking. He talks like he isn't at a 24/7 pep rally like Obama "orations", which is ok in a church but not in government. Hillary's voice often sounds like fingernails on a blackboard, but when she's calm, such as in the Philly debate, she clearly outshined Obama. When he is off his cue cards he clearly is out of his element; very bad coming up with extemporaneous cohesive thoughts without gaffes. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/15/2008 8:56:59 AM |
Meanwhile, since the candidate they have supported is out, Clinton supporters are in a quandry.
Most of Hillary's former supporters are not in a quandary at all. The majority of them have gone over to Obama, as was predicted. More will follow within a few weeks. Most people are able to place issues over polemics. There is a tiny, single-digit fraction of Hillary supporters who prefer to focus on Hillary's failed campaign rather than the issues the country is facing.
For most, there is no quandary or dilemma at all. | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:13:57 AM | I think this thread should be haulted. She lost. Start a new one with these ideas please.  | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:24:18 AM |
Most of Hillary's former supporters are not in a quandary at all. The majority of them have gone over to Obama, as was predicted. More will follow within a few weeks. Most people are able to place issues over polemics. There is a tiny, single-digit fraction of Hillary supporters who prefer to focus on Hillary's failed campaign rather than the issues the country is facing.
For most, there is no quandary or dilemma at all.
I saw a news report that only 8% of the democrats crossed party lines in the last election to vote for Bush against Kerry. But because the election was so close, less than 2% separated Bush and Kerry, this was enough to swing the election Bush's way.
This was when Howard Dean was the most viable second democratic candidate to Kerry, and Dean did not get anywhere near the number of votes Hillary did.
My guess is the number who cross party lines this time will be significantly more than 8% and judging by how close the presidential elections have been the last few times, this will be enough to again swing the election to the republicans.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Why is Hillary losing?
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:39:57 AM | gunnerintime
I agree the Hillaryites are starting to look like the kid who takes his ball back because he can not be in charge or starts loosing the game. If you remember, that kid did not stop the fun. A real team player would always provide a new ball and eventually that kid just watched from the sidelines.  | |
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