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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 6:18:05 AM | Well the economy was vastly different as well, many European industrial centers were demolished during the war so the call for American made goods was higher than any other time in history. Jobs were plentiful and companies tended to keep employees for decades. Hence the vision of the stay at home Mom with the pearls and the station wagon.
Things have changed drastically, even two parent homes need two incomes/high income to live at the same same standard many people in the 1950's took for granted.
Were women better off? Ask your Mom or Granny how many of her friends were taking valium?  | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 6:57:37 AM | Women have been abused the way your cab passengers have been abused for years. People see the statistics saying that a large percentage of women have been abused and scoff but our cabbie friend has given us examples of what he sees regularly.
The difference is that in the 50's, people kept this kind of behaviour hidden. They were much more into image so you'd likely not see the man beat up his wife in a cab (I hope you called police!). He'd wait until he got home and then beat her.
Sadly, men like some of the posters in this very thread are chronically angry, blame 'women' for their problems, and take it out on women. It was ever thus.
I didn't realize until I grew up and started paying a lot more attention to the news how lucky I was that my dad was a nice, normal, respectful man who would never think of hitting or even insulting my mom and I. I thought nice people were normal. The longer I live, the more it seems that good, kind, honest, considerate people are the exception rather than the rule - and it was always that way. :( | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 7:29:45 AM | Here is a post my smarter side says ,stay away from. but that has never stopped me before !! I think our past reflects our views on the matter. If you were a little girl hearing all the time what an ***hole your dad is and I would leave if I could, you see
women trapped in their marriages and things are better now. If you are hurt and glad
you have a job and did not have to stay you are happier now. But the truth is not everyone was trapped ,Not all men are ***holes, and life now is alot harder and we do it alone. I feel the goal in life is to be happy and survive. Can you really say it is any easier to do that today. And before all the people chime in with, they are all so happy with their lives....let me point out you are on a dating site tying to change that fact.
Frank | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 7:29:57 AM | Oh boy, here we go again!
Generally, he believed that men were more respectable and dedicated to their partners, friends, and familes in the 1950s then they are now. There was a code of ethics.
Just because they (either sex) didn't openly part with their partners through divorce as much then as they do now doesn't mean they weren't parting from them behind closed doors! None of this crap has changed that much, the same dirty games are being played that have been played all along, but now, really bright spotlights are exposing us in ways that didn't happen back then. There's no "ethics" in playing dirty behind closed doors...they just painted a prettier face on it back then.
And those that lived ethically then are probably still living ethically now. :)
If I sense anything shifting, it's a bitterness. Some men are very, very angry at women. All women. That's probably because they think we got too uppity and don't understand how some of us view equality. They think our not caring for being discriminated against solely because we're women means lots of things that it doesn't mean.
I'm 47 and I don't know if it's because of where I was born and lived the bulk of my life, (the south) or something else entirely, (perhaps that the way we acts begets the way we're treated?) but I haven't detected any real difference in the way I've been treated, or in the way men view women. Those that had a sweet view still do, those that didn't still don't. Around here, I'm treated the same way by all kinds of men. About the only time I detected something stark was when I worked at the hotel that the Indians owned and operated...man, oh man---whew!
I think if anything explains the kind of behavior described in the OP, (as well as drug/alcohol addiction, the need for so much therapy, the way our world seems so inside out and upside down, etc.---and I'm not meaning to give such a "pat" opinion because it's very complex) I think it's mostly the break up of families. The dynamics of our key relationships are very powerful, and women (as mothers) take a huge fall for it. It's our natural role to nurture our babies into healthy adults. Staying home and painting a pretty lil picture of ethics and morality didn't guarantee that, but I do think breaking up the family opens the flood gates of blame that leads to so much dysfunction, pain, and bitterness.
I know I'm not explaining myself very well. In short, I think trying to hold the family together when it's not working for whatever reason can be very unhealthy because we learn what we live, but I think it's been more destructive to break us apart. That's not to say that doing so is wrong or that it should even be judged in such terms, only that it's the most destructive. Forcing everything out into the light, vs. keeping it hidden in the dark ought to be a good thing, but I think the pain and all that comes with such a gut wrenching change is something we're ill equipped to deal with. | |
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vro312
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 30 | |
| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 9:20:49 AM | It happens about once a week in my cab that some woman...generally under 25 endeds up crying in the backseat.
I do believe this is what you are seeing. But I also think many men are similarly abused. (And yes, of course I realize that men are generally stronger physically than women and have a social history of violence.)
I live in the Los Angeles Harbor area. It is, as a guy I met described, "Where the ghetto meets the sea." I have an awesome ocean view, but my stuff gets stolen and I hear gunshots at night. And I am witness to domestic discord fairly frequently. One set of neighbors in particular fights at least weekly. In their case, if I were the judge and jury, I would say the woman is the guilty party. She yells at the guy, "You're such a fvcking a$$hole . . . look at you--you're disgusting," etcetera, and it can go on for an hour. If a man were to yell at a woman that way, you'd have all kinds of neighbors calling the cops. But because it's the woman being abusive, people leave it alone. Recently, I was driving around my neighborhood, and I saw a woman walking down the street yelling obscenities at her man. Again, if this had been the man yelling at the woman, I think people would have stopped.
I am not minimizing the domestic abuse that women have endured historically, but I do believe, with the relationship dynamics changing as they are, more men are being abused. Some of them are easy targets now because their identity and sense of self-worth is unstable. In general, people abuse people. And, like I said before, it seems to be at least partially because as we became adults, many of us found that who we always thought we were supposed to be didn't really exist anymore.
I understand why some men are angry and confused--they got the rug pulled out from under them. They're like the South after the Civil War. It doesn't mean we're ever going back to the pre-war era, but it does mean that some serious adjustment needs to take place. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 9:32:10 AM | | Your friend has a TV/movie view of women in the 50's, the real facts are hard and biased against many women of that era. The fact that jobs could be taken away, if given in the first place, from women shows just how hard it was for a woman to be single back then. A woman could not had some proceedures done without the consent of their husbands and in some cases their fathers, an example: fathers of adult women could actually have a child taken away and put up for adoption against their will, etc. Women who were abused or left had few choices of ways to take care of themeselves or their children.....the list is endless. Your friend, I'm guessing, has some ideal of women being treated like bonbon eating, soap opera watching, housewives who only had to clean a nice home and be nice to hubby after his return from a long hard day at work. PPPFFFTTTT!!!!!!!!! Anytime you have to keep someone 'down' for their own good, you know darn well you are in the wrong. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 9:46:30 AM |
While sitting there eating with a co-worker, I overheard the conversation of the group of four women who were sitting about three tables over from me. They were talking pretty loud. One decided it was a good idea to read 'men jokes' from the email she was reading off of her Treo. You know, the ones the women LOVE to pass around in the office on company time. With each passing joke, their laughter got louder, until the joke about 'why can't women find sensitive, caring men anymore' came around......at which point, I loudly said the punchline 'because they all have BOYFRIENDS' before she could get to it. (it's not that I hadn't heard this joke OVER.....and OVER.....and OVER again...) When they all turned around, I gave a little annoying smile. I think they got the hint. They then decided it would be better to go onto ETHNIC jokes.....
Dash, I recall a similar incident maybe ten years ago. I was having lunch at a restaurant which as it turns out was not far from a hospital. The table full of women right next to me were evidently "care" givers of some sort, and I couldn't help having to over-hear their conversation. They were much more vicious and hateful in their comments about men than the ones you mentioned. I made a mental note that should the occasion arise to be sure and try to make it to a different hospital. Frankly, I think it would be karmic justice if something happened to them in a cab or elsewhere.
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 9:59:06 AM | This is absolutely not the type of people you pick up. Men treat women exactly how women allow men to treat them. Women don't demand respect these days. Women don't insist on much of anything anymore and I speak from experience at nearly forty nine years old and watching them in the last ten years. I remember when men used to treat women well but they don't have to anymore because women don't expect to be treated well.
A lot of women want to pay for the date, they don't want a gentleman to pick up the check so that's what they're getting now. Now all the women are expected to go dutch or actually pick up the entire tab! More and more women are willing to settle and accept a casual sex, nothing more than glorified "friends with benefits" atrocity they actually call a "relationship." These relationships often don't last out the year and then they are into another one. Women bring children into these kinds of joinings and their children and they have no security because there is no child support after the wonderful prince they've chosen to father their children has left the building.
Women work their fingers to the bone just like men now and they raise their children alone. They give their bodies away and catch STD after STD in these commitment-less unions until they are worn out, both emotionally and physically. "Rode hard, put up wet" come to mind?
Oh yeah. Women are really better off now. Right. What a joke.
Until women have enough of this absolute stupidity and wake up, they'll keep getting the shaft, all in the name of their "independence." Well, good luck with that, ladies. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:00:57 AM | | If you look around the world is it males or females that are being kept down and abused/stoned/ honour killed.It is females and children who suffer most from discrimination and still it is so.Times are better now in westernized countries, but in the third world women and kids have an appalling time.One of the greatest breakthroughs for women was contraception and the release from incessant child bearing and fear of pregnancy.Double standards still exist as far as sexual behavior is concerned, women are still judged way more harshly. A lot of men still feel they have the right to control and dictate womens sexuality.We still earn less at work and don't attain the same success in promotion.I have grown up with decent men, and like and respect them. But the reality is in lots of ways, women are still in second place. As women we need to have self respect and high self worth . We don't always realize our own worth and value.We are different to men and are restricted from certain jobs because they are more suited to men. That does not make us less than, just different. We compliment each other like ying and yang. | |
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vro312
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 35 | |
| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:07:17 AM |
A lot of women want to pay for the date, they don't want a gentleman to pick up the check so that's what they're getting now.
Although I've found that most men insist on paying on the first date, I personally like to go dutch because I don't want to feel as though I owe anyone anything. However . . . and this is a BIG however . . . I never get mistreated by men. Men are and have been very polite and respectful with me, and when I hear that men are disrespectful with some women and try to get sex on the first date, I am surprised.
So yes, maybe we do show others how to treat us, but I'm definitely not sending the message that I want to be treated poorly when I offer to pay my own way. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:29:03 AM | It's a mixed bag, and it depends on who you ask. I think 50 years ago, the family unit was more stable. Everyone sat down to eat for dinner (together); parents were parents (not their child's best friends); you minded your manners & respected others or there was hell to pay. I think the dollar went further 50 years ago then it does today. I also think there is a "myth" about the 1950's (Leave it to Beaver; Father Knows Best). Families strugged then just like they do today.
The wealthy women are better off, be it 50 years ago or today. The middle class women do have more choices than our parents did (they don't have to stay in abusive relationships). The great thing about today, is MORE women than ever are going to college. In fact, they are outranking the men in college attendance. The thing that men and women struggle with today, is choices. There are far greater choices, hence more consequences. Roles between men and women today are more blurred than 50 years ago, so there's a lot of insecurity. As a Boomer, I didn't have a role model when it came to having a "career" vs. a "job".
The problem I see with today, is there's a whole lotta pissed off people (men & women). It comes down to expectations. Geez, life didn't turn out like I expected. There's a whole lot of disrespect and uncivility. It all becomes about "me, me, me". | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:33:18 AM |
Generally, he believed that men were more respectable and dedicated to their partners, friends, and familes in the 1950s then they are now. There was a code of ethics.
Selective amnesia, OP. The above was true if you were a white couple back in the 1950s. My background is mixed, but I have both filipino and mexican mixed into my jumbled white-guy ancestry, and believe me that the 1950s utopia people keep saying "was better" was only better for some, usually at the expense of others. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:39:34 AM |
I didn't realize until I grew up and started paying a lot more attention to the news how lucky I was that my dad was a nice, normal, respectful man who would never think of hitting or even insulting my mom and I. I thought nice people were normal. The longer I live, the more it seems that good, kind, honest, considerate people are the exception rather than the rule - and it was always that way. :(
Wow, that's an observation I, myself have made. I used to think my own family was the one with the issues. I used to think my aunts' family was so "together" - they were the perfect picture of the thriving nuclear family (sort of what this thread touches on as what was the ideal). Heck, their father even was a rocket scientist!
Then as time went on - multiple divorces, an illegitimate kid turns up, a deadbeat/stalker dad, another deadbeat dad. You realize it was all smoke and mirrors. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:42:57 AM |
FRAU BLUCHER...........feminism did not cause the destruction of the traditional roles of men and women. Matrimonial laws were created by religion which was dominated by men of power.
Where in my post did I mention “with this ring I thee wed” or the papal ruling papas? I’m all for equality, equal pay, and the like. However, it does appear that when two income households became a requisite, and neither parent took responsibility for the home, something happened to the family unit---it disintegrated. I could care less whether it’s the man or the woman who fulfills the role of caretaker for their children, but one of them should, IMO. I didn’t say women weren’t better off by being afforded opportunities, I said the family unit was better off when one parent was home with the kids. Somewhere along the line families (perhaps in their quest to keep up with the Joneses?) lost sight of what was truly important. I ended my post by stating that perhaps feminism (opportunity for women---them going out into the workforce and no longer staying at home) could have just revealed what was there all along (people were dysfunctional; unhappy; bitter; etc.). I did not say it CAUSED it.
And you needn’t shout my name. You know what happens when people do that----whinny!! | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:50:59 AM |
It happens about once a week in my cab that some woman...generally under 25 endeds up crying in the backseat.
And do you think, OP, that it was any different in the 1950s. It was likely a lot worse.
There are always going to be abusive people. Some women are abusive as well, but tend not to be so in the very overt ways you have seen.
This is not an excuse to just disregard what you see in your cabs. I will say this, though, you're probably too smart to be driving a cab and that kind of work is just going to make you bitter about society. Jobs like cab driver, paramedic, lawyer, etc are the grease traps of humanity. You see all the bad and very little of the good. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:58:16 AM | OP,
There are still just as many gentlemen and a@@holes today, as there ever were. What has changed in 50 years though, is that the some of those things that were kept behind closed doors, are now often out in the open. (meaning the abusive part, that you witness). Thankfully, while minding your own business was the norm when becoming aware of those things 50 years ago, it isn't like that anymore today. People everywhere are stepping up to the plate to end this type of behaviour.
Other than that, I'm in agreement with Frau Bluecher that the two income household is what has mainly changed the other things in life, sadly not often for the better. I just went on a bit of a rant over that very same thing as being the cause, in an Ontario forums about single mothers two days ago *sigh* But it is what it is, and we all need to play our part in restoring balance and sanity, as we seem to have gone from one extreme to the other.
On a personal level, I'm just glad I didn't live 300+ years ago in Massachusetts, I probably would've been burnt at the stake for my opinions on some matters.
hugs | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 11:16:16 AM | | i wouldn't say better off cause now things are basically 50/50 and its much better than any man being in control...but there are some who still have a problem with women being independent witch are the ones that need to be shot!! and need to get over it times have changed and women don't need a man to get by anymore... | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 11:39:42 AM | | I think both men and women were better off. I work with the elderly, and they show alot more respect for others than the younger generation does. Seems like most nowadays are just looking for a quick fix. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 2:15:51 PM |
And you needn’t shout my name. You know what happens when people do that----whinny!!
My apologies Frau Blucher..............my intent was never mean't to offend you. | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 2:29:18 PM | | I agree to some extent. A lot of women 5o years ago appear to have been treated better. Thats not saying all men back then were angels....there was still men betraying women and leaving their wives etc. We do have the illusion the grass is greener on the other side, my mothers father left my gran to raise children on her own and didnt give a penny to help bring the kids up. However, there is definitly a shift in mens expectations for women now........not only are women expected to have as good of a job as men, their expected to look like glamour models, behave imprecable in bed but remain the perfect woman to introduce to their family if THEY want it to get to that stage. For example, when striking a comversation on the internet one of the first questions is 'what do you do', and on a lot of mens profiles it has a huge lists of the expectations what their looking for....then some men blatantly say their after sex, some lie, some serial date, a lot are rude and inpolite, its almost liek a hrowaway culture....or maybe its the guys on the net who are just like this?! | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 2:48:57 PM |
Karl Marx ... died a popper.
Maybe the Marx brothers were corn poppers, but surely Karl never worked in a theatre :-) | |
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| Were women better off 50 years ago?
Posted: 3/2/2008 7:29:13 PM | | It is better for everyone now than 50 years ago. Science and technology liberated both men and women from opression. It seems like some think life was a bed of roses for men 50 years ago. The reality was that these men worked in backbreaking soul robbing jobs with long hours and poor pay. There is no coincidence that the women's movement occured when technology changed the work world because that's when women decided that they wanted to be part of doing those jobs. If they had wanted to be part of the workforce in 1920, they would have fought for it then. They chose what they wanted to do, and now blame the men that did not have the same choice for forcing this on them. Women have never been the powerless weak creatures that seems to be the common view. They always were a big part of the social engineering of society, and remain so today. | |
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