|
|
|
|
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 10:30:45 AM | It is for the ignorant and for the small-minded to judge those they do not know anything about.
If people are on welfare it is because they are entitled to it. End of the story.
It is called welfare for a reason....social effort of those that can and will to help those that cannot or will not. The strong has the duty to help the weak, even the irresponsibile weak. End of the story.
We, as a society, are still responsible for the children of the parent who creates children irresponsibly ( talking about IDEAS!!!)
Free education: YES. Having innocent children pay for the mistake of their parents: NO.
And I am not on welfare.
| |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 11:12:54 AM | It's the resentment of small minds protesting misplaced pennies while the priceless potential of what else we might otherwise achieve lays unclaimed for being invisible to their imaginations This might be too complicated, ROLLING A LONG, for small minds to understand. Sigh... I fully agree with all your posts. Better to err on the side of caution.....
Geez...look at how much money the US has spent on a useless war in name of imperialistic power. For those who want to talk about wasted money, and Ideas as well. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 2:30:29 PM | I have had many...welfare recipients....turn down an $ 8.00 per hour + over time entry level, full time job.....So...YES....I judge them............. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 6:24:35 PM |
have had many...welfare recipients....turn down an $ 8.00 per hour + over time entry level, full time job.....So...YES....I judge them.............
WOW- $8.00 an hour, what- no benefits?
My are you ever so generous- Why not try paying a real living wage and maybe people will work for you.
While you are busy judging welfare people, they are judging you. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 6:44:38 PM | have had many...welfare recipients....turn down an $ 8.00 per hour + over time entry level, full time job.....So...YES....I judge them............. WOW- $8.00 an hour, what- no benefits? My are you ever so generous- Why not try paying a real living wage and maybe people will work for you. While you are busy judging welfare people, they are judging you.
The minimum wage in California the same as what it is here in Ontario and the post clearly stated it was entry level... *i.e. to expect a raise once you have proven your abilities*. I would be disgusted with someone passing up an entry level job that pays minimum wage with the opportunity for overtime pay in order to stay on welfare.
Not every job has benefits - even here in Canada.
Future judgements should be made on informed opinions. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:24:06 PM | It is for the ignorant and for the small-minded to judge those they do not know anything about
My, my ... people who frown upon welfare cheats/abusers are known as "ignorant" and "small-minded" while the ones who condone their misguided behavior are called "well-informed" ... I see, twisted mentality as usual. Could you please explain how I know nothing about it?? I posted an example of someone (I know) who lived off welfare due to poor personal choices.
If people are on welfare it is because they are entitled to it. End of the story
NOT end of story. No one is entitled to anything ... much less a life handed to them on a silver platter. The only ones who feel such entitlements are the very people who are leeches themselves.
It is called welfare for a reason....social effort of those that can and will to help those that cannot or will not. The strong has the duty to help the weak, even the irresponsibile weak
Anyone who is unwilling to help themselves will eventually Darwin themselves out of existent. The strong has no duty to help the irresponsible weak ... only the duty to kick them aside to make way for those who will help themselves.
What the saying?? "God helps those who help themselves".
We, as a society, are still responsible for the children of the parent who creates children irresponsibly
And it's that kind of permissive attitude that keeps them coming back with new litters while feeding the disgust of we who will judge them.
It's the resentment of small minds protesting misplaced pennies while the priceless potential of what else we might otherwise achieve lays unclaimed for being invisible to their imaginations This might be too complicated, ROLLING A LONG, for small minds to understand
In actuality, that statement is simplistic and uncomplicated ... not difficult to comprehend at all. It's only the "poetic" use of words that seem to make it complicated ... mere external window dressing.
All he's really saying is: "Small minded" people (aka those who don't agree with him) are wasting valuable energy protesting against welfare cheats while "overlooking" (as he believes) other more notable endeavors. But guess what ... priceless potentials are already being achieved by those with the motivation and the drive to seek it while those who leech off the system are the very ones whom "priceless potentials" will never be realized.
My are you ever so generous- Why not try paying a real living wage and maybe people will work for you
Refusing a job to stay on welfare ... that's realizing "priceless potential" for ya.   | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:13:20 PM | "kick them aside"?? How nice, so now we have a new standard for the less fortunate: truly a sign of evolvement.
Too bad the law doesn't agree with you. I truly wish things will go well for you, because if by chance they don't, you won't be able to stand welfare. Remember: a disaster could happen to you as to everybody else. Not everybody is endowed with priceless potential and good health. Conditions are not always self-created.
But hey, if you believe in what you are saying, good for you. Just don't get too scared when you will fall down. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:23:28 PM | ^^^^^Yeah too bad the laws don't agree. Thanks for the "well wishes", but I have been able to manage for 29 years working without ever relying on welfare. I wouldn't qualify anyway since I'm not disabled and have no children. Reason why I'm against it for people who really shouldn't be on it if they had exercised better judgment in their lives. True ... disasters do happen, but is mitigated by advance planning of resources. Kinda like having fire insurance before the fire happens or having insurance for critical illness before being struck down. No one can plan for every eventality, but I have greater respect for those who do plan ahead for themselves. 
Conditions are not always self-created
True as well ... but many posters have already stated that it's the ones who create their own misery (like having too many children for their level of financial resources) are the ones we have no sympathy for.
How nice, so now we have a new standard for the less fortunate: truly a sign of evolvement
See my post198 for my take on the "less fortunate". Don't feel like repeating it. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:30:22 PM | You don't get it, do you? Not everybody is able to plan ahead. I do, you do, but some lack the basic skills to make it in today's society. It is a sad reality. Traumatized people cannot see further than they nose, those who are on drugs cannot either and those with mental illness don't even understand the difference. Not everybody is strong. People on welfare are not all lazy and careless.Get it????? Some truly cannot see any way out. What are we going to do? Put them on the streets?
Better to err on the side of caution because we never know where the truth lies.
I agree about the single mums that keep procreating but we cannot demand that they take birth control. Maybe we should give all of them an hysterectomy....how about that?
No point in judging any law that can be misinterpreted or taken advantage of. No point in judging those whose circumstances and background are poor and sad. We cannot know the exact truth about the situation and personality of people claiming welfare.
Unless you were born with some debilitating condition or suffered some kind of illness or accident, there is no such thing as "less fortunate" : what about the lack of motivation of people that got abused, raped and psychologically traumatized? Do you think they are growing up with good judgment? What about the sons and daughter of drug abusers? Do you think they can afford higher education? What about the people with mental illness that refuse to go and see a doctor? What about the single mother that ended up abandoned by a run-away husband?
What about those that are fat and ugly and nobody wants to hire?
It is a call for values, not judgments. Put aside your big ego and have compassion for those that cannot even understand what the hell me and you are talking about. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:51:28 PM | And you still don't get what I'm trying to say.
Not everybody is able to plan ahead
Traumatized people cannot see further than they nose, those who are on drugs cannot either ... People on welfare are not all lazy and careless.Get it????? Some truly cannot see any way out
Tell me how hard it is to plan ahead and realize that making babies without much financial footing is a recipe for disaster?? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. Same with doing that first hit of drugs ... don't understand that you can become addicted?? Again, not rocket science. If someone truly wants to leave welfare behind and makes a conscious effort to do so, then I would not judge them. It's the ones who continue to make bad choices as a way to stay on the system who digusts me.
I agree about the single mums that keep procreating but we cannot demand that they take birth control. Maybe we should give all of them an hysterectomy....how about that?
If we cannot demand their use of birth control, etc. then why are they demanding societal intervention (in the form of a check) to clean up their bad choice??
We cannot know the exact truth about the situation and personality of people claiming welfare. It is a call for values, not judgments
As long as people don't ask society to clean up their irresponsible choices, then I won't judge them, but as long as I have to pay their dues, I am entitled to voice my opinion.
what about the lack of motivation of people that got abused, raped and psychologically traumatized? Do you think they are growing up with good judgment? What about the sons and daughter of drug abusers? Do you think they can afford higher education? What about the people with mental illness that refuse to go and see a doctor? What about the single mother that ended up abandoned by a run-away husband?
What about those that are fat and ugly and nobody wants to hire?
Your agruments seem to veer to those who were somehow abandoned rather than understand what everyone against welfare cheats have been saying all along. Those who knowingly make bad choices and have absolutely no desire to improve themselves. What part of that escapes you???
I am not fond of irresponsible people either but the problem is: I do not know the conditions that brought them to where they are
So you telling me you have no idea how a single mom with 20 kids in tow got there?? Does the irresponsible mating with equally irresponsible fathers bring about some realization for you?? You're not fond of irresponsibility ... yet you advocate entitlement to all welfare people regardless of how they got there (in a previous post). Sounds contradictory.
But maybe you have a crystal ball to see who are Those who knowingly make bad choices and have absolutely no desire to improve themselves
There are some who have made bad choices ... realize it ... and truly seek to improve themselves, while there are also ones who will make bad choices and see nothing wrong with their behavior and continue in the same destructive pattern.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
| |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:58:43 PM | In society there are always going to be the good, the bad and the ugly. I am not fond of irresponsible people either but the problem is: I do not know the conditions that brought them to where they are. If you do not know, it is unwise to judge.
But maybe you have a crystal ball to see who are Those who knowingly make bad choices and have absolutely no desire to improve themselves.  Maybe social services should hire you to discriminate between those that make knowingly bad choices and those that make unknowingly bad choices...
Because, of course, it is all a matter of intention and awareness.
Bye the way, it is not me that provides entitlement for people on welfare to stay there. It is the law that does. It is up to social services to decide, it is neither up to me, nor to you: we are not those paid to judge them.
If they are on welfare, it is because a government representative entitled them to that cheque. If they hadn't been entitled, they would have not received the cheque: crystal clear to me.
there are also ones who will make bad choices and see nothing wrong with their behavior and continue in the same destructive pattern I suggest you start a personal campaign against them. You could convince them of all the wrong that they don't see; it could give you a new sense of purpose....like those that try to convert people to their beliefs, you know...
You can publish a book and call it the Bible according to Padawan61 : How to make welfare people responsible.
It could be very enlightening.
I could write: "how to share a humanitarian approach"/published in Canada by a socialist european.
| |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 9:21:04 PM |
Bye the way, it is not me that provides entitlement for people on welfare to stay there
No you don't provide the entitlement ... you simply advocate the validity of it.
If they are on welfare, it is because a government representative entitled them to that cheque. If they hadn't been entitled, they would have not received the cheque: crystal clear to me
If they are on welfare, social services apply a humanitarian approach to the such handouts. They reason that if nothing is done, the children will suffer. Welfare cheats are counting on this style of thinking to keep the money coming in.
I suggest you start a personal campaign against them. You could convince them of all the wrong that they don't see; it could give you a new sense of purpose....like those that try to convert people you know...
You can publish a book and call it the Bible according to Padawan61: How to make welfare people responsible. It could be very enlightening
Thanks for the suggestion, I think I will. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 9:26:37 PM |
I have had many...welfare recipients....turn down an $ 8.00 per hour + over time entry level, full time job....
I guess beggars CAN be choosers - perhaps I should quit and get on welfare instead of working my ass off cleaning up after slobs for a low wage | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/26/2008 10:55:34 PM | Some people were raised to be empathic and compassionate, others were raised with an example of hating one group or another. People on welfare make an easy target.
One of the reasons people get upset is that if poverty cannot be blamed on the poor, if it is something that can get you even if you have been working hard, then life seems uncertain. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 11:13:35 AM | "Tell me how hard it is to plan ahead and realize that making babies without much financial footing is a recipe for disaster?"
In this day & age of information and so many ways to obtain Birth Control, WHY OH -WHY are we seeing more & more children are being born to those who just DIDN'T THINK!!! What did they think would happen when they engaged in sex without birth control? BIG SURPRISE!!!
"Same with doing that first hit of drugs ... don't understand that you can become addicted?" Well-Said! 
I have absolutely NO SYMPATHY for those who just see this as an excuse to use the Welfare System. Why should my hard-earned tax dollars go to those irresponsible, lazy IDIOTS who REFUSE to help themselves?
I agree that Life happens and there will be situations when people find themselves struck with hard times but as long as they want to do all the hard work it takes to help themselves, I'm all for supporting the Welfare System.
However, delibrate Laziness & Excuses should NEVER be rewarded! | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 11:58:09 AM | I am curious about the following:
how many folks who have posted here have ever received the "earned income credit" as part of their tax refund?
how many folks who have posted here went to college or trade school and received financail aid from the government or have received the Hope and Learning Tax credit?
How about the Child tax credit on your taxes?
These are all forms of, yep, you guessed it, welfare. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 2:13:51 PM | ~transparent~butterfly...
Someone claiming a tax credit for having a child on their income tax does not equate to welfare per se. These are benefits given to people who are working to reduce their taxes by a small amount. If one does not work to earn an income, one does not get to claim them.
The concept is quite simple.
I'm not sure what the Hope and Learning Tax credit is... but I'm going to guess that it's close to a bursery... again... a different concept to welfare as this only applies to people who are in a post-secondary educational institution. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 2:39:42 PM | psssst -
the child tax credit, here in the US is actually a form of welfare. Welfare covers a variety of benefits offered to those with no or minimal income and is sometimes a means to help those folks get back on their feet or obtain an education so they can get out of the system and become self supporting individuals.
Now, before you accuse me of being pro welfare, or even on welfare, I am employed, own my own home, own my vehicle, have money in the bank and get no government assistance.
I was merely pointing out to some of the "oh, I would never go on welfare, I'm smarter than that" folks, that yes, they have actually received some type of welfare benefit at some point in their lives and that they need to consider the entire picture before judging harshly.
Now, don't get me wrong. I am totally against the welfare mom-baby-making- machines who pop out a kid every year for more benefits and I am also totally against the folks who are on welfare and doing nothing to make a better life for themselves. Welfare as a hand up, not a hand out, is there for a reason, and sometimes, life happens and folks need a helping hand. But to stay on welfare and then proceed to scam the system is one of those things that really just angers me beyond words. IMO folks that think they are entitled to be supported by the tax payers while they sit home or do anything but find a job should be cut off from the assistance and have to find a job and become self supporting individuals.
~tb~ | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:04:51 PM | people get upset is that if poverty cannot be blamed on the poor
Huh?? Poverty and the poor goes hand-in-hand. Flipside of the same coin.
if it is something that can get you even if you have been working hard
That's funny ... all the people I know who've worked hard (and made good life choices) aren't poor while the opposite is true.
Some people were raised to be empathic and compassionate, others were raised with an example of hating one group or another. People on welfare make an easy target
Another description for excessive empathy and compassion would be "naive sucker for a sob story".
how many folks who have posted here have ever received the "earned income credit" as part of their tax refund?
I guess not as many as you think. What's an "earned income credit"? Never seen that with my tax refund ... if I ever receive one.
how many folks who have posted here went to college or trade school and received financail aid from the government
This one I know. Much of the financial assistance must be repaid. I received a $3000 remission on my $13,000 student loan which reduced the repayment by that amount. However, you can't view a loan remission as welfare because the government give students the remission as a way of rewarding the effort of achieving an education in order to become future taxpaying citizens ... and I've paid my fair share, thank you very much. Giving free welfare without the requirement to better oneself (and eventually leave it behind) is nothing more than a perpetual handout.
How about the Child tax credit on your taxes?
No kids = no child tax credit.
These are all forms of, yep, you guessed it, welfare
False logic ... you belief it as welfare.
transparent butterfly, I more in agreement with the last paragraph of your post268. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 5:29:49 PM |
False logic ... you belief it as welfare.
No, I don't belief - I believe and KNOW it is welfare. I had to write an extensive paper on welfare in college - these are all forms of welfare.
And thanks for agreeing with me.
~tb~ | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 5:38:07 PM | Some use welfare as a crutch or a free ride, they are not deserving... But there are many that do need it, they should not be looked down upon for this reason..
Right now in the states there is a huge increase in forclosures, I suppose those that are against welfare, also feel that the Govt should do nothing for those people!
There are lots of ways to exploit the Government! Welfare is but one... As an ex banker I have seen more "rich" people on "welfare" than poor...Ken Lay for example! And every other person that lies on their taxes, is self employed yet declares no income, or uses some other tax shelter to hide their money...They are just as bad as those that exploit the welfare system! | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 7:00:48 PM | Sigh. I seriously hope a whole lot of you fools have something bad happen to you one day and you have to get the ol' "welfare check". To the dude who kept spewing "you shoulda thought about having kids if you couldn't take care of them". Yeah, because that's the case ALL the time, huh? Every woman on welfare is not reproductively irresponsible. Many had comfortable lives and due to the death of her spouse, a layoff from a job, divorce, or injury, they've had to seek help.
Living on welfare isn't a walk in the park and most can't stay on it forever. By the way, welfare is TANF and it is nothing but a couple hundred bucks a month. You can't receive TANF and child support at the same time. So maybe if deadbeat fathers would step up and help care for their children then not so many single mothers would be getting it. Ever think of that?
Crimeny. So many bitter, negative souls around here. Never ceases to amaze me. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 8:27:16 PM | To the dude who kept spewing "you shoulda thought about having kids if you couldn't take care of them". Yeah, because that's the case ALL the time, huh? Every woman on welfare is not reproductively irresponsible. Many had comfortable lives and due to the death of her spouse, a layoff from a job, divorce, or injury, they've had to seek help.
Fair enough. However, once someone is in the situation of needing the help, it is irresponsible to have more children. There are enough methods of birth control out there to prevent it, and if an 'oopsie' happens, there is abortion or adoption. I have no problem with people who genuinely need it getting it, I have a huge problem with adding to the family while on assistance.
My former SIL is in that category - on welfare, gets pregnant and has another child. I suspect it may have been because her children are in their teens and once the youngest turns 18, she'd have to look for a job. (we had workfare up here for a while but not sure if that is still going on or not, however I think people with kids under 3 were exempt)
By the way, welfare is TANF and it is nothing but a couple hundred bucks a month. You can't receive TANF and child support at the same time.
Here, you can receive welfare and child support at the same time. The child support is deducted from the welfare cheque.
So maybe if deadbeat fathers would step up and help care for their children then not so many single mothers would be getting it. Ever think of that?
My brother isn't a deadbeat - he's DEAD.
I do agree with those in this thread who say that people shouldn't be abusing welfare and that their problem is with the abusers, not those who genuinely need it. Unfortunately, some people judge all by the actions of some. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/27/2008 8:33:08 PM |
Fair enough. However, once someone is in the situation of needing the help, it is irresponsible to have more children. There are enough methods of birth control out there to prevent it, and if an 'oopsie' happens, there is abortion or adoption. I have no problem with people who genuinely need it getting it, I have a huge problem with adding to the family while on assistance.
Agreed.
ere, you can receive welfare and child support at the same time. The child support is deducted from the welfare cheque.
Not here.
My brother isn't a deadbeat - he's DEAD.
With all due respect, then I guess I wasn't speaking of you. I'm sorry for your loss.
I do agree with those in this thread who say that people shouldn't be abusing welfare and that their problem is with the abusers, not those who genuinely need it. Unfortunately, some people judge all by the actions of some.
Agreed as well. However, I believe there are far more viewed as abusers that really aren't. At least in the states. I could see where *possibly* it's more of an issue in Canada just because the benefits are better. (Or seem to be.) | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 12:07:25 AM |
I am curious about the following:
how many folks who have posted here have ever received the "earned income credit" as part of their tax refund?
how many folks who have posted here went to college or trade school and received financail aid from the government or have received the Hope and Learning Tax credit?
How about the Child tax credit on your taxes?
These are all forms of, yep, you guessed it, welfare.
i claim my disabled father because he lives with me and can't work any longer. i am also on financial aid, going to school full time. the difference between me, and a young woman who is pushing out babies to remain on welfare, while spending her welfare money on booze and smokes, is that my temporary disposition (if you can call it that) is in the process of reversing itself through the monetary help that i am receiving. i've paid into these programs since i was 15 years old, and its my right as a citizen of my country to apply for these benefits. but there is a clear difference between financial aid for college, and money being given to people for years upon years, without any real opportunity for these people to ever get off of it.
the main problem i see with welfare is that the states are willing to throw money at a problem, yet do nothing to solve the actual problem. they throw *just* enough money so that these people can live mediocre existences. when i got laid off last year, i went on unemployment for a little bit, because i honestly just didn't feel like working. the company i worked for went bankrupt at the worst possible time in my college career, and had i focused on finding a job instead of school, i probably wouldn't still have a 4.0. so i went on unemployment for a few months instead.
i found it somewhat acceptable for me to do this, because i had been paying into it, so i might as well use it. when i applied for it, they offered all these computer courses, certification courses, even auto repair, all for free. i was so shocked. they said i'd have to meet with people, i'd get random phone calls, i had to keep a lot of all the jobs i applied to. after the first meeting, they never checked up on me again. i didn't have one meeting with anybody. and the best part... when i actually tried to set an appointment to speak to somebody, the closest appointment was 3 months away! they gave me cash on a debit card every week, most of which i used on bills, and whatever was left over was used for cigarettes.
point of talking about this? the government threw money at me, ignored me, and showed just how they don't care about what happens to that money once they transfer it, not even who it is going to. at first i felt really bad applying for unemployment because i knew i could probably find a job easily. after being a part of that system though, i now realize that it really doesn't matter if you know you can find a job or not, because even the government doesn't care.
one of my best friends is a heroin addict. he blew every dime of unemployment money on heroin. about 6000 dollars. he went to the first meeting and they never bothered him again. in my perfect world, everyone on unemployment is drug tested. why? well first off, a lot of jobs drug test, and if the government isn't ensuring that you are drug free, how are you supposed to get a job?! if you are found to be using jobs, you are granted instant medicaid to go to rehab (if you wish), or your unemployment is cut off. the people who test clean, they get their money... and they are required to meet with somebody once a month to help them find work. if after 3 months, they have not progressed, they are forced to take interview training classes, in hopes that this could help them if they have problems during interviews.
as for welfare as a whole.... i think that anybody who wants to go to rehab should be allowed to go, on the government's dime. there should be very little exceptions to this. as soon as they want to go, they should be in a facility the next day. they should be able to check themselves into a hospital, and then talk to a drug therapist, and then they should be transfered to a rehab facility. there shouldn't be a 2 month wait for their medicaid to go through before they can receive treatment. when a drug addict realizes they need help, and they go through the process, and then wait 2 months before receiving help... the government might as well be putting the needles in their veins themselves.
how will we afford the extra cost of rehab? birth control for welfare mom's. elliminate the future babies, and put the money to better use. its a near perfect system. just transfer where the money is going. | |
|
|
| Page 11 of 22
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 |
|
Home
login 
