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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 1:23:47 AM | I'm well aware of my family history in Canada and we've never had a handup or handout for that matter. We persevered on our own. That's why I have no tolerance for anyone needing a handout to clean up their poor choices. I don't owe anyone (anything).
^^Wow padawana....with that ^^ comment....it is easier to see why you have the views and predjiduces you have posted!
You are a master at deflecting direct questions...
>>>I don't owe anyone (anything). Can I make that any clearer for you??
^^^Correction my fellow canuck........YOU do owe your fellow canadians the same amount of respect that your family was treated with when they immigrated here.
If you feel so strongly about where your tax money is going...I suggesst you investigate some other areas of the government where YOUR money is being wasted...which is probably only a fraction of what our welfare system costs.
YOUR taxes pay for many different services other than just people on welfare.
If YOUR not part of a soloution that will try to help people in need of ....A HAND UP.....in their life...then you are part of the problem that campaigns against the poor and perpetuate the never ending cycle that continues with each future generation of poorer classes being stigmatised.
If you do not have a certain amount of tolerance and understanding for your fellow canucks who need help....why is it are you so surprised or disgruntled that the same people have no respect for you?
STOP trying to lend credit and substance to your opinions with stories of "abusers" of the system....as I have said before...if you know someone abusing the system......get on the phone and report them....
...or I guess you could just continue to use them as examples in any arguement you make...especially whenever it was convienient for you to back up your own personal arguements/opinions.
I am sorry you have no tolerance for people who are less fortunate than yourself...and I wonder how far that stigma of yours extends. | |
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TLC_
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Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 277 | |
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 1:37:02 AM | OP, this is so very true
being one on a disability pension i find that many femails put you down.
it looks as if they have a narrow mind and think you are less capable of loving and care that someone who is working in a nice job.
but the same can be said for those who put people down because they work in a factory (or similar) some snob cant even change a flat tyre, and they put the mechanic as unworthy of being seen with, yet they would be totaly screwed if the mechanic couldnt use a jack. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:58:32 AM | False logic ... you belief it as welfare. No, I don't belief - I believe and KNOW it is welfare. I had to write an extensive paper on welfare in college - these are all forms of welfare
So explain how a student loan, which must be paid back (with interest) is considered welfare??
Sigh. I seriously hope a whole lot of you fools have something bad happen to you one day and you have to get the ol' "welfare check"
Well, this "fool" have been at it for nearly 29 years without the ol' welfare check ... so I must be overdue for one (or two). BTW, poorwhitegirl, good handle, LOL.
To the dude who kept spewing "you shoulda thought about having kids if you couldn't take care of them". Yeah, because that's the case ALL the time, huh? Every woman on welfare is not reproductively irresponsible. Many had comfortable lives and due to the death of her spouse, a layoff from a job, divorce, or injury, they've had to seek help
There are numerous ways to avoid welfare if one plans ahead. Life insurance against the death of a spouse, unemployment insurance to help during layoffs, suing for support in a divorce and disabililty insurance for injuries. When welfare moms are on it and continues to breed more ... while having no desire for personal improvement ... why should I have any sympathy??
So maybe if deadbeat fathers would step up and help care for their children
So why not go after the deadbeat dads instead of involving taxpayers??
I have a huge problem with adding to the family while on assistance.
I do agree with those in this thread who say that people shouldn't be abusing welfare and that their problem is with the abusers, not those who genuinely need it
Exactly!!
^^Wow padawana....with that ^^ comment....it is easier to see why you have the views and predjiduces you have posted!
You are a master at deflecting direct questions...
^^^Correction my fellow canuck........YOU do owe your fellow canadians the same amount of respect that your family was treated with when they immigrated here
And you, lizbeth is a master at reading only the posts that'll favor your own arguments and skip over ones you cannot debate. Did you read my post250 regarding immigrants??
YOUR taxes pay for many different services other than just people on welfare
I'm well aware of that, thank you so much. However, the amount that goes to welfare cheats who abuses their privilege is what alot of the posters are arguing against ... but you continue to evade that notion. Why?? Because you have no defence for the abusers??
If YOUR not part of a soloution that will try to help people in need of ....A HAND UP.....in their life...then you are part of the problem that campaigns against the poor and perpetuate the never ending cycle that continues with each future generation of poorer classes being stigmatised
And if you're not part of the solution to crack down on the abusers (a HANDOUT), then you're part of the problem in perpetuating a continuous cycle of endless entitlement where they'll simply make more stupid choices (with no accountability) and ask society to clean it up.
If you do not have a certain amount of tolerance and understanding for your fellow canucks who need help....why is it are you so surprised or disgruntled that the same people have no respect for you?
Abusers of the system don't need help. They're just hoping someone (as naive as youself) will see them as a "victim" and blindly offer them compassion.
STOP trying to lend credit and substance to your opinions with stories of "abusers" of the system....as I have said before...if you know someone abusing the system......get on the phone and report them....
The person I knew who was on welfare is past tense, but it still lends credence to my hatred of such abusers.
I am sorry you have no tolerance for people who are less fortunate than yourself
Welfare abusers aren't "less fortunate" than me ... see my post198.   | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 6:51:55 AM | pad, you and I live in different countries so it's really pointless in debating with each other. However, I do have to say congrats to you for staying off welfare all your life. Hang on a sec and I'll do some back flips and cartwheels for ya. I'm sure you need that ego stroke.
How the hell do you expect someone to sue (that takes MONEY) for child support if they have none? You still can't force someone to pay. Some would rather skip town or sit in jail rather than pay. Sh!t happens in life. Maybe dear old dad committed suicide- no life insurance paid out then! Maybe one doesn't qualify for UE- in fact ANYone would take UE over TANF because UE pays much more. Not to mention they would HAVE to take it. The states apparently don't just hand out cash like in Canada. If you have ANY other source of income you can not receive TANF. Period.
I agreed with the other person and I agree with you- if you can't support what you already have you shouldn't be having more. I never disputed that. And ftr, I've never received TANF. I've had food stamps and had my kids on state insurance, but that's it. - There, you can go after me for that one. I'm prepared. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:10:55 PM | Let me begin by saying this: Lavina10, I've read your posts on this thread, and I'm a fan. Now, moving on.....
I have had many...welfare recipients....turn down an $ 8.00 per hour + over time entry level, full time job
I see from the profile that you're Californian; without knowing the housing and grocery markets there, it's impossible to say whether this is a good offer or not, so you still haven't established that you have any right to judge. In my area, $8.00/hr is barely above minimum wage, and we're taxed much more heavily than you Americans. However, if I got an offer like this, I would jump on it, without hesitation.
I have one rule that I would love to see applied here: anybody who criticizes welfare recipients should have to spend a full year on welfare, with NO other support. At the end of the year, only the most fanatical would still be trying to pretend that anybody with any better options would choose that life. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:22:25 PM | I'm on welfare. For my son and myself, I receive $940 per month, which covers the basics only (and BARELY at that). Why would I chose that? Oh, and I receive ZERO child support, even though his father is raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. But since our divorce is an international one, I don't have the money to afford a lawyer and the laws in his country (where the company exists and the marriage took place) don't give me free representation because I'm not a citizen.
Hell, before going on welfare, I was taking home $5 - 6000 USD after taxes PLUS had access to essentially any amount I desired -- until it was all taken from me. How? The company I owned with my ex-husband was "run into the ground" (at least according to the books) and re-opened under another corporation which I have no rights to.
Trust me, not all welfare recipients are bums. And to call me lazy is laughable.
But let me tell all of you self-righteous morons a secret: NONE of your tax dollars goes to "welfare bums" like me. Shocking, I know. The "government" goes to an independent corporation to print its money (that's where the "national debt" came from; the gov't decided not to print its own and therefore not have debt at all; they chose to give that right to a PRIVATE CORPORATION instead) as it is needed. Then again, now they simply enter figures into a computer, print it out and hand it to us "welfare bums".
Money hasn't been backed by gold in ages, people. Shocking, but true. We operate on debt and credit ONLY. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 3:16:36 PM |
Hell, before going on welfare, I was taking home $5 - 6000 USD after taxes PLUS had access to essentially any amount I desired And yet there you are... having squandered it as opposed to investing in your future...
Yup... I believe the 5-6K... 
But let me tell all of you self-righteous morons a secret: NONE of your tax dollars goes to "welfare bums" like me. Shocking, I know. The "government" goes to an independent corporation to print its money (that's where the "national debt" came from; the gov't decided not to print its own and therefore not have debt at all; they chose to give that right to a PRIVATE CORPORATION instead) as it is needed. Then again, now they simply enter figures into a computer, print it out and hand it to us "welfare bums".
Money hasn't been backed by gold in ages, people. Shocking, but true. We operate on debt and credit ONLY. Ohhhhhhhhhhh... so that's how you got your 5-6K? Printing it?
C'mon... if you are going to tell tales, make them plausible? Please? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 3:37:20 PM | And yet there you are... having squandered it as opposed to investing in your future...
Yet another self-righteous moron...
Actually, the money I had saved (which *should* have been quite the down payment) was spent on lawyer fees, a private investigator, and living expenses over a three year period. Not on drug use, expensive trips, or shopping.
Ohhhhhhhhhhh... so that's how you got your 5-6K? Printing it? C'mon... if you are going to tell tales, make them plausible? Please?
When you have a successful e-commerce company which sells electronics and clothing (mostly) that operates internationally, the 5 - 6 K USD is nothing. Throw in the fact that we were also distributors for other stores, and yeah -- I had access to essentially all the money I wanted. Until it all came crashing down.
Is it so hard to believe that a current "welfare bum" was once successful? Or is the fear that the same could happen to you (which it could) so rampant within you that you resort to disbelief and attempting to insult someone who is sharing a negative experience?
Many have experienced abundance and then hit the bottom. My ride caused me to gain 80 lbs. in one year (thank God I lost it...well...all but 20 lbs). | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 6:26:02 PM |
Mess 280. That was not me!
Ok... just in case anybody is left confused, the quote in my earlier post(280) was from message 253, and the comment which followed was a response to that post. It was (and is) intended to be separate from the expression of approval for Lavina10's posts, with which I opened that post. No implication that she was in any way connected with msg 253 was intended. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/28/2008 9:47:41 PM | | It infuriates me to no end when I'm busting my hump at work, and then I see these people come in with their 200.00 to 300.00 a month food stamps and buy all this junk food, and buy steaks, and buy a small pack of gum so they can get cash back to buy their cigarettes and/or beer...that pisses me off!! I work hard for what I do make, and my feet hurt so bad when I get off work..and I may have 50.00 a month for groceries-(if I'm lucky)....and most of the people I see that have them are lazy bums. Back in the old days they didn't have welfare- they had families and they all worked together, grew crops together, and took care of each other. I think welfare needs to go away myself. I can see it on a few people..but the majority of them no way....go out and get a job!! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 12:27:40 AM | To the OP,
Look through the pages of this thread to answer your questions.
Any thread with "welfare" in the title of a thread always brings an automatic judgement from some people.
It dosen't matter to some people why a person is forced to ask for help.
Alot of people could care less as to what reasons or circumstances can leed up to someone needing a hand-up at some point. Some people are way too self-involved to ask "why" someone needs help and somehow feel justified in throwing insults along with judgements at anyone who has needed welfare. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 12:51:23 AM | Welfare abusers aren't "less fortunate" than me ... see my post198. ...
^^right...I forgot this thread was about the abusers and not how some people have automatic judgements of someone collecting welfare.
padawana...I am sure if I met you in person, you would probably be very charming and articulate. I wonder if you would have the stones to publicly voice your pre-judgemental opinions on welfare recipients if you had to argue your points with real people instead of hiding your contempt of them behind a computer screen.
BTW....the above was a rhetorical question....I suspect I already know the answer. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 5:58:29 AM |
When you have a successful e-commerce company which sells electronics and clothing (mostly) that operates internationally, the 5 - 6 K USD is nothing. Throw in the fact that we were also distributors for other stores, and yeah -- I had access to essentially all the money I wanted. Until it all came crashing down. Yup... sounds successful. And you are no longer a part of this successful company because.........????
That's right... mismanagement. My bad... I almost missed that little tidbit of information.
Sounds like you manage quite nicely now though... 
Is it so hard to believe that a current "welfare bum" was once successful? Or is the fear that the same could happen to you (which it could) so rampant within you that you resort to disbelief and attempting to insult someone who is sharing a negative experience? Many of us have seen similar situations, yet we've turned to ourselves as a resource to ensure that we are self-sustaining financially.
I would also like to point out that the people opposed to welfare abuse by others have not resorted to the use of terms such as moron...
It dosen't matter to some people why a person is forced to ask for help. Have you even read the posts in this thread to see the continuous comments that the judgement is based on abusers and not people who validly use the system?
Cheers... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 6:05:54 AM | Well i been poor most of my life, and when i was a kid my mom was on welfare even though she had 3 jobs. we were dirt poor, and needed the money.
i gues the ppl your refferring to is ppl who are kind of biggots towrds ppl on welfare. most ppl i know of on welfare, cause they have to eat, and need the money.
their probally on welfare because they gotta takecare of their kids, or need the money, cause their job isnt paying the rent. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 6:18:31 AM |
So explain how a student loan, which must be paid back (with interest) is considered welfare??
padawana...A student loan is not considered welfare - but the free financial aid which students get, is a form of welfare, and this includes tuition assistance that is given. There is a difference, and if you got no free tuition assistance then it does not apply to you and you can continue to sit in your glass house and throw your big ole rocks at folks who are not as fortunate, hard working, or as well off as you.
Your total lack of compassion for those less fortunate is simply amazing. I have never in my entire life encountered anyone with as little compassion and comprehension of life and it's sometimes unforeseen, unplanned for, beyond a person’s control events as I have encountered with you.
Again, welfare as a hand up is one thing and sometimes things happen that cause good, honest, hardworking folks to need some assistance.
I have seen women who were married and living a good life, stay at home moms, going through a divorce, and need that assistance because the soon to be ex is refusing to pay child support and because he is hiding assets so she has no money to support herself and the children. It can takes months to get a court hearing. What is she suppose to do in the mean time while she is looking for a job and trying to get on her feet? What are her children suppose to do, starve? Live on the streets?
I have seen companies close down with little or no notice and people suddenly unemployed that are in their late 50’s, looking to support their families and find another job, spending their savings and need a hand. Should they be denied?
Your logic that everyone should plan better, while good in theory, doesn’t always work in practice. Of course, since you don’t have any children, I doubt you would understand how it is hard for some folks to put money into savings while they are living paycheck to paycheck and paying for little Johnny’s braces, mommy’s birth control, the deductible on the insurance, the house, the car, groceries and field trips for little Johnny and little Susie, and all of lifes other day to day expenses . . .
Amazingly, sometimes folks are one paycheck away from disaster and life happens and they need help for a short period of time getting back on their feet. Again, a hand up is one thing, a hand out is wrong.
As I have stated before, those that make welfare a way of life and refuse to help themselves out of the system are wrong.
Those who need a hand up, whether it be in the form of college tuition assistance, food stamps, medical care for the kids, or actual cash assistance, surely should not be denied for a period of time.
As with any program that offers folks a reason to sit back and collect the money, there are always those that will find a way to scam the system and abuse it. But that does not mean that all that use the system are bad.
A little bit of compassion and understanding for ‘the other guy’ would go a long way.
~tb~ | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 6:26:16 AM | Mssg 281 - just forums
I'm on welfare. For my son and myself, I receive $940 per month, which covers the basics only (and BARELY at that). Why would I chose that? Oh, and I receive ZERO child support, even though his father is raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. But since our divorce is an international one, I don't have the money to afford a lawyer and the laws in his country (where the company exists and the marriage took place) don't give me free representation because I'm not a citizen.
you know, I was feeling a little bad for you that you were divorcing a guy who was making life difficult.
then I read this on your profile
yes, I smoke weed at night for the pleasure of it and my sympathy for you went out the window. Talk about being the Epitome of the abusers we are complaining about!
Get a clue, get a job, and stop blowing your money on weed and you might be able to afford an attorney to help ya collect that child support you are suppose to be getting.
*shesh* | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 6:50:45 AM | piscescoda-I am responding to your post # 203 as I was out of town for the Easter holiday and some of that is direct quotes from my posts.
You were attacking a mother who had not one but 2 disabled children and was collecting welfare!! I am a license dog trainer and I specialize with disabled children. The fact that I am also epileptic and suffer from seizures gives me a great ability to train my wonderful canines for seizure alert as well. Shall I go on with my knowledge of disabilities and how many SINGLE MOTHERS need assistance for very expensive medical needs??
Yeah yeah I worked at Kinder care when I was 16 too!! Now go vote you fool!!
Damn, I shouldn't let threads go so long without checking them. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 7:05:25 AM | Your total lack of compassion for those less fortunate is simply amazing. I have never in my entire life encountered anyone with as little compassion and comprehension of life and it's sometimes unforeseen, unplanned for, beyond a person’s control events as I have encountered with you.
Well, now you've encountered another one if that's how you choose to view me.
I live in an area where the homeless are on every street corner "begging" for a handout because they're too sorry to work. I truly, truly have no problem helping people that can prove to me they're trying to help themselves, but I've worked long and hard as a single woman with the sense not to pop out kids that I knew I couldn't afford in order just to "work the system" to my financial advantage.
Sorry to sound so harsh but hey...I've had to make a living for myself for 30 years and wouldn't even think of going on welfare but it also isn't "beneath" me to work as a waitress or fast food employee if I had to in order to meet my financial obligations.
yes, I smoke weed at night for the pleasure of it
and my sympathy for you went out the window. Talk about being the Epitome of the abusers we are complaining about!
Get a clue, get a job, and stop blowing your money on weed and you might be able to afford an attorney to help ya collect that child support you are suppose to be getting.
Bingo!!
Sans | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 7:35:44 AM | Sans,
I have seen your posts everywhere, you are not one to lack compassion.
I truly, truly have no problem helping people that can prove to me they're trying to help themselves
see, and there is the compassion, yet again. 
Paw and a few other are totally against welfare, period, end of discussion, no if's, ands or buts . . . he never needed it and he never will so why should anyone else ever need a hand up while trying to help themselves out of a bad situation.
Sorry to sound so harsh but hey...I've had to make a living for myself for 30 years and wouldn't even think of going on welfare but it also isn't "beneath" me to work as a waitress or fast food employee if I had to in order to meet my financial obligations. I agree totally with you on this point.
I am just saying that there are times when things happen that one has no control over and they need a little help and compassion is a good thing. Welfare needs to be looked at on an individual basis.
Just like just forums needs to stop whining, stop smoking weed, get a job, and get off of welfare. That kind of abuse of the system is just wrong. She has no reason not to get a job and she is using drugs.
Welfare should come with random drug testing and mandatory requirements that you are actively seeking employment.
I was watching Dr. Phil one day and he said, and I totally agree with this, 'if you don't have a job, then your job is to spend 40 hours a week finding a job' Welfare should have a time limit and strict requirements. Helping those who refuse to help themselves is just crazy and just like throwing good money after bad. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 8:07:02 AM | TB--Thank you for your kind words...I try to have a "hard shell" but people like you can see right through me. Yes, I do have compassion for people less fortunate than myself and would give up a kidney without a second thought to help them out if I knew they "needed" it.
I couldn't agree with you more on your post.
I'm not totally against the welfare system. Welfare is truly on a case to case basis and I think Pad may have said that in one of his prior posts. I could contract MS tomorrow and without anyone to call on for assistance in the future, I just may well have to call on my government for help in the next 20 years but I would do my very best to not have to.
Hugs, TB...I love reading your post's btw..you are one of the few that have earned my respect on the forums.
Sans | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 8:11:24 AM | I was watching Dr. Phil one day and he said, and I totally agree with this,
You agree with Dr. Phil... nothing more need be said to completely invalidate anything you follow that with.
I've noticed one recurring theme through this thread, the assumption that, "If I can find and hold a job, anybody can." This, of course, assumes that everybody has exactly the same capabilities, which is an assumption that only the most foolish would ever make, let alone state in public. That is appears so frequently in this thread says a lot about the general level of debate on this issue. There are some people who genuinely need ongoing assistance; the arrogance and ignorance of those who sneer at them, amply illustrated here, is the major reason that the assistance provided is always so inadequate. That many people in our society have ability impairments (visible and otherwise) which make it exceptionally difficult or even impossible to provide for themselves is a fact, and no honest or rational person would deny that fact.
So, going back to the original question of "Why judge people on welfare," barring insanity, there are really only three possible answers:
Ignorance.
Stupidity.
Bigotry. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 8:16:16 AM | | Spitfire, funny how you see people buying gum to get cash back to buy booze and smokes when food stamps now come on an EBT card, not paper like back in the day. Lie much? Or are you talking about back in 1980? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/29/2008 8:21:18 AM |
You agree with Dr. Phil... nothing more need be said to completely invalidate anything you follow that with
If you like the man or not, I really don't care. He can be over the top, but many times he can be right on the money. Maybe you don't like his in your face attitude, I really don't care.
The fact of the matter is, and remains, that if you don't have a job, your job is to spend 40 hours a week finding a job. Like him or don't - it's a valid statement and if more folks followed that philosophy fewer folks would be on welfare and/or unemployed for any long period of time. | |
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