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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:52:45 PM | I've met many people on welfare, was there myself, in the late 80's , and practically
everyone I met was stuck in a rut literally, there are some people in this world, who
simply are not made or built to work, and wouldn't last at even a basic job 1 week
many are single parents, many have issues, but don't qualify for disability and some
have substance abuse problems, which although that's their fault, it's still there,
then there's the other side of the spectrum , the Corporate Welfare , some examples
from where I live in ontario canada
Corporate welfare does not create jobs and instead provides unfair competition as the government gets into the business of picking winners and losers
1. The Public Accounts for 2007 show a payment of $55,061,011 to Ford Motor Company of Canada. Ford is cutting shifts in St. Thomas
2. Magna firms have received tens of millions of dollars in government aid while its CEOs, Donald Walker and Siegfried Wolf, each have received over $5 million making them two of Canada's best compensated executives, according to the Globe and Mail's Executive Compensation Report, 2006.
3. Despite a $2 million provincial loan guarantee and a $400,000 grant handed out on the eve of the 2007 election in July, FibraTECH went into receivership. Northern Ontario Business reports the firm refuses to pay workers for their last three weeks of pay. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/8/2008 11:38:58 PM |
Why Judge People On Welfare
I do not automatically assume anything about people on social assistance. I do believe that our government needs to do better with who is approved for it. I think that these who need to be on it should be on it. I think we need to help out our fellow man who has fallen on hard times through no fault of their own and wants to improve their life. I am all for helping the sick, the abused single mothers who just left her husband and needs to have some time to get her life on track etc.
What I do not support are the people who are on welfare as a way of live. Those who chose to not further their education, learn a skilled trade etc. I am against helping the women who get pregnant just to get a larger welfare system. One can get free birth control in most places so if you do not have the money to have a baby then do not take risks. If you need to be on it that is one thing and we need to help and not judge these people. If you are just lazy, abusing the system or do not want to work then you should not be having tax dollars support you. It is that simple. Life can take a turn for the worst in our lives and we can all get stuck in financial problems but there is no excuse to be lazy and have working people support you.
I know of a single mother who had her husband leave her and he took all their saving too. She went on social assistance and there is nothing wrong with that. She went back to school, got a good job and supports herself and her kids now and pays taxes.
I also know of a woman who scammed the government. She was on assistance, lied and had her boyfriend living with her and he made great money. She worked under the table and also collected a cheque each month for assistance. She had two children but one lived with her parents but she claimed him as living with her and got tax breaks, more money each month etc. People who do this need to be stopped and punished.
We cannot just judge those on assistance but ensure that those on it fully need to be.
~Carrie | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/9/2008 1:08:37 AM | Perhaps it's because you have no "leg to stand on" in responding to psssst No, sorry, but psssst is notoriously argumentative, an egomaniac and generally a very negative poster here...the kind of negativity that lingers like a foul smell. She goes out of her way to make petty attacks on people while simply repeating the same rhetoric over and over
Or have you ever thought that just maybe psssst is calling you out on the $hit in your life and having been back into a corner, you just don't like the smell of that crap?? Many people (like you) just don't like having their lives peeled away and all your inadequacies revealed for all to see. You go into a state of denial.
Thanks, Sans ... I can handle these posters Wow...I mean...can you say mob mentality??? What are you bravely going off to war or something???
Mob mentality?? That's plural. "I can handle these posters" is singular. Yep ... it's war against welfare cheats and people who advocate their cause.
or you can try to get them on the right path through proper education (in a broad sense) and actually do something positive
You can't get someone onto the proper path if they have no desire to go that path. If a welfare cheat feels perfectly justified in abusing the system ... if you're perfectly justified in smoking from your "bong" ... no amount of prodding is going to change that for you. The drug addict or alcoholic is always going to deny they have a problem. Kinda like "leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink".
One is a win win while the other is just an angry response. History tells us which works best
Leading a defiant horse to water isn't a win-win scenario. History and statistics tells us those who don't want to help themselves can never be helped. Think of the perpetual homeless.
All I'm saying (yet again) is that we need to roll out the red carpet for those who are genuinely trying to improve themselves and their situation
Again, there are those who'll step out onto that "red carpet" (laided out before them) because they're genuinely interested in improving themselves, however, there will always be those who have no desire to ever step out onto that "red carpet" ... not when they can just cheat the system.
So again, how do you dare criticize others for ignoring (for whatever reason) their personal responsibilities when you and others like you (psssst for example) basically ignore your social responsibilites???
And again, I will reiterate ... I have no social responsibilities to anyone unwilling to accept personal responsibility for their own choices. Responsibility begins with accountability for ones choices and actions. In other words, don't expect others to be socially responsible to you until you've taken personal responsibility for yourself.
Lead by example and others will follow. Villify, ridicule or otherwise chastize people and you lose them. Which are you doing right here right now???
Yes ... lead by the example of being accountable for your own choices instead of absolving welfare cheats of their immoral behavior. Which are you doing right now???
Always??? Really??? Come on now. Just how perfect are you???
Perfect enough such that my choices doesn't require societal interventions to clean up.
Sanctimony has a first name...it's Pad
Exactly!!! 
"Lowlifes"...not particularly positive
Which is the fitting description for welfare abusers. What positive is there for someone of low scruples that they must cheat society for support??
Why not try a different approach and really affect a change??? Or is it easier your way. I suspect so.
My way is easier. Denigrate the abusers. Why don't you try a different approach instead of indulging them in their distasteful habit.
Who are you to decide who is really in need or not??? Who are you to decide who's a lowlife or not???
Need a refresher?? The ones who would produce children indiscriminately and without a solid financial foundation ... the ones who smoke nightly from their "bong" and becoming addicts. The ones who have no desire to complete school or higher education because they're too busy smoking from their "bongs". These are indeed the lowlifes. Need further examples??
That's not your call...but here you are spreading your hate and assuming it doesn't directly or indirectly affect those who ARE in need
Oh, but it is my call ... when I have to directly or indirectly pay to clean up their mess.
Capital punishment may kill real criminals...but it also takes a few innocents in the process. You're doing the same thing
If you're going to bring capital punishment into the debate ... I have two words for you ... "collateral damage".
I am part of the working poor by choice. I gave up my lucrative sales career to try a different path
If it's your choice, then you have no right to complain that you're the "working poor" being punished by "slave wages", no??
Everytime I tried to upgrade my skills through the programs available I was told to look for and take any work I could find for the three months or so it would take to get approval
And did you take any work you could find or was it beneath you to accept such work??
All I wanted was a truck licence...a two week course with a guaranteed GOOD paying job
Well, my son ... welcome to the real world. The is no guarantees of a good paying job nor is there any guarantees of job security. Hate to break the bad news to you.
Lot's of people aren't very good at planning ahead...weren't taught such things...
hmmm?? Let's see: How hard is it to plan ahead?? No education, no solid financial foundation ... should I or shouldn't I use birth control?? Tough to plan, eh? Doing drugs for recreational purposes ... am I going to get addicted if I continue?? Tough call, eh?? If I don't finish school or pursue higher education ... will I be able to hold anything but minimum wage jobs. Can't figure that one out, eh??
trust me it can happen to anyone...even you sunshine
Unlikely it'll happen to me, sunshine. Want an example?? Last year, someone in my apartment building burnt the place because of their carelessness. Most of the tenants didn't have home insurance and thus required the assistance of Red Cross disaster services for shelter-like living conditions. Meanwhile, yours truly, had home insurance and checked himself into a hotel ... letting his insurance company handle the situation. Gee ... another example of planning ahead. Want yet another example?? I have critical illness insurance against the day I might fall victim to such a tragedy.
and having a person such as yourself who suffers equally from social retardation speaking out for them Oh you mean other social inepts like Christ...Buddha...the dalai lama...John Lennon...All morons right???
I don't believe those individuals were or are advocating for welfare cheats. Methinks you're starting to grasp at straws.
Of course, what you smoke is your business, but it becomes our business should you ever need societal intervention to compensate for your own self-indulged misfortunes that may arise Again...this is a very slippery slope. Suddenly it's Nazi fun for everyone who thinks they know better than someone else about how to live their life. Lead by example instead of trying to persicute and control and I GUARANTEE you'll have success. The alternative is much worse I assure you
Again ... read my lips ... I don't care how you live your life. Smoke whatever you want ... pop as many kids as you want, BUT when you must seek societal resources to compensate for your choices, then you've crossed that line. The solution is to utterly and brutally cutoff welfare cheats.
Look...I'm pro people through positive leadership and stewardship. You seem to be the EXACT opposite...all negative all the time
I am pro-accountability ... expecting everyone to make proper choices. You are exactly the opposite ... absolving everyone of that responsibility.
If you were in need of help...which would you turn to???
And we haven't gotten through to you ... that there is legitimate need and illegitimate expectations. Which are you fighting for??
I find people like yourself Padawana very pretentious. How can you know what examples of tradgedy has resorted to someone having to seek assistance
I suppose the idea of "through no fault of their own" (i.e. New Orleans victims or any natural disaster victims) as opposed to "by their own stupid choices" (i.e. welfare cheats) have totally escaped your feeble mind. There's just no help for you lizbeth. You're way too gone.  BTW, if you can't apply the quote tags ... don't make the childish attempt with the >>>> Makes it difficult to read your posts.  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/9/2008 9:39:10 AM | | I see not point in judging people on welfare, personally. It could happen to me tomorrow. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/9/2008 1:51:20 PM | People don't know how these people get on social service, so they just assume they're lazy, cause there are people that lazy, and asking someone why they're on welfare is down right rude in my eye. How'd ya like someone to come upto ya and say "excuse me but why are you poor?". I'd be insulted myself
However there could be plenty of people with a real reason for having to take it up, around my home town, there were no jobs anywhere unless you had a vehicle to travel the distance. What about the folks that have no vehicles? How're they gonna get ahold of that opportunity?
And what one person said, people could have disabilities and unable to work.
But it's much easier to think they're all lazy, we don't know'em who cares right? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/9/2008 5:12:54 PM | | there should be an immediate stop put to welfare programs. no more social welfare, and massive reform of the WIC program. they will give anyone the WIC benefits, illegal aliens included. the government is not a charity organization. you want charity, go to a church. I would say that 10% of people on welfare actually need help. these are people who are either mentally or physically disabled. these people need help. the other 90% is made up of freeloading worthless people. I live in the city, I know what I see. I can't imagine that it varies that much from city to city. if you want to have some fun, here is something that you can do. go to the line in front of the welfare office and collect cell phones. that would be good for a kick. it would also teach you the truth about these "poor" people. you know, I can take a walk on the street and see homeless people sleeping on the street. you know why? because they usually have mental problems and don't have the mental capacity to manipulate a federal program like the 90% I speak of. get a clue people. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/9/2008 6:19:31 PM |
Oh and this is the second post where you've talked about what I smoke. What I choose to imbibe with my PAY CHEQUE (see...ignorance is bliss) is my business. I might suggest you try some though... of all the people I've talked to on here...you are the one who needs a fat joint and a good lay most. Amusing that you will post something such as this then attack another's intellect shortly after with...
No, sorry, but psssst is notoriously argumentative, an egomaniac and generally a very negative poster here...the kind of negativity that lingers like a foul smell. She goes out of her way to make petty attacks on people while simply repeating the same rhetoric over and over. I can handle a spirited debate with an intelligent opponent but her M.O. is neither spirited or particularly intelligent. It's just the same bad smell in every thread.
Yes, I can see the intellect so very clearly...
I would also like to point out that you accuse others of not getting to know one's situation prior to their forming opinions. If you please, enlighten everyone on what you know about me...
I'm a captive audience as I'm certain the tale will be amusing. 
Additionally, you failed, ad nauseum, to respond to any of the points which others make in this thread; due to the fact that you are unable to prove your opinion through logic and reasoning. You prefer to sit there, and cocoon yourself in a veil of self-righteous indignation and rather than responding to the points made, you divert the conversation.
Then you have the audacity to use phrases such as ad hominum? (sic)
I will reiterate; I judge others who abuse the welfare system. It was designed as a hand-up, not a hand-out. I'm 100% for programs which teach individuals how to become self-sufficient and even donate my time to such causes; I'm vehemently opposed to programs which allow individuals to use and abuse tax-payers money.
I don't promote myself as better than the person next to me, nor do I engage in self-effacing acts. If this has others viewing me as on a pedestal, so be it.
I believe the anger and antagonism shown in this thread more than justifies my thought that certain people didn't make reasonable choices and despise the fact that there are others in this world who have chosen not to follow the path of least resistance; a path which has led to a higher level of success in life.
But of course its so much easier to blame people such as myself for your own failings; for the fact that I hold a certain position in life and that it somehow takes away from you.
Bull... take some bloody responsibility for your individual situation. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/9/2008 8:30:19 PM | | They can't take responsibility for their situations. Then they'd have to admit they are able to change them. Then they couldn't play the victims anymore. Then they'd have no excuses. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:35:03 AM | ^^^^^ piscescoda, your a very smart and stunning Lady, I enjoy your post very much! I watched a News Story here in Atlanta concerning a Welfare recipient that has been receiving public and federal assistance her whole life. Everything she has was purchased thru the funds handed to her through welfare assistance. Here is a sample list:
>Nice hardwood floors
>A 42 inch flat screen TV
>Nice appliances
>Nice furnishings (i.e. Sofa, Bed, Kitchen and Dining room tables/chairs)
Her "Public Housing" Apartment furnished by the tax payers looks better that most privately owned homes. Someone told on her and she is screaming FOWL(!!) at the unneeded attention she was getting. She got a job in the private sector for a few weeks and quit because she had to actually work. She went back to public assistance right about the time the Investigative News Crews came knocking on her door.
There needs to be serious oversight to every case of Public Assistance to insure the system is not being rape and ravaged as it already is. Thus, it is easier said than done. As long as Officials look the other way, people will in fact abuse the system.
There are some that temporarily need help until they are on their feet, that's fine. The rest that depend on Welfare because they are too lazy to access the free training and schools for skills that will help them. This will sooner or later deplete the funds!
Just my 2cents worth folks,
~Sneaks | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/11/2008 4:24:51 PM |
I watched a News Story here in Atlanta concerning a Welfare recipient that has been receiving public and federal assistance her whole life. Everything she has was purchased thru the funds handed to her through welfare assistance. Here is a sample list:
>Nice hardwood floors
>A 42 inch flat screen TV
>Nice appliances
>Nice furnishings (i.e. Sofa, Bed, Kitchen and Dining room tables/chairs) These are the people being discussed in this thread primarily. The people who have made a career out of bilking the system and learning the loopholes so it works to their advantage to remain unemployed/unemployable.
This thread right here shows you some true colors of most people on here. Such haters, so sad. Where's the love? Many of whom you refer to have a deep empathy for those truly in need of assistance as a temporary measure.
Its difficult to see the single mother of seven children, with seven different fathers and a lifetime of welfare collection behind them as needing my empathy. *shrug* | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/11/2008 4:39:35 PM |
Such haters, so sad.
Why do you label people as "haters" for expecting those able to to work and support their progeny?
Its difficult to see the single mother of seven children, with seven different fathers and a lifetime of welfare collection behind them as needing my empathy.
I so hear you on this. There are enough methods out there to prevent conception. If you are on assistance, you can get the pill covered. If you can't take hormonal contraception, fair enough but there are other ways of protecting yourself. Go to your health unit or Planned Parenthood and get free condoms, some doctors will give condoms out, ask your partner to pay for them or at least pay half the cost etc. If you do have an "oopsie", you don' t have to have the child. Here, abortion is covered under universal health care, but if you don't believe in it, then you can always place the child for adoption, which is probably better for the child than being raised cradle to age 18 on welfare.
Once again, this thread is about those who are ABLE to work and refuse to do so. Not about those unable to work/work full-time or who for other reasons are not employed but are actively seeking work or taking courses to better their chances of getting a job. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/11/2008 5:12:39 PM | | What irks me is that convenience stores allow the use of food stamp cards. The system needs to require courses to teach people on the system how to spend more wisely, do drug testing and not allow another child to be born if that person is on assistance...........but that would be communistic I was told once. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/15/2008 11:28:38 PM |
First and Last warning on this thread - cool off or it closes.
Thread on watch list
Perhaps that might be best. This is the hating thread and it's going in circles. Let me re-summerise my thoughts.
Welfare should be temporary and able bodied people should not get it feeble minded too. Cutting all the abuse in the system will allow for more folks that really need it. Too many people think they need it when all they really need is a kick in the a$$ to get out there and get a job. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/16/2008 1:36:48 PM | i haven't checked this in a bit and wow looks like lots are arguing more than ever 
chill out ppl its a thread about one of many issues in this world | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/16/2008 2:22:31 PM | silly to judge.
Unless one has walked in these people's shoes, he/she should abstain from judgment.
Resentment is never a good sign. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:51:46 PM | I watched a News Story here in Atlanta concerning a Welfare recipient that has been receiving public and federal assistance her whole life. Everything she has was purchased thru the funds handed to her through welfare assistance. Here is a sample list:
>Nice hardwood floors
>A 42 inch flat screen TV
>Nice appliances
>Nice furnishings (i.e. Sofa, Bed, Kitchen and Dining room tables/chairs)
Such haters, so sad. Where's the love?
I'm at a loss ... how can you love the news item posted by Sneaks??
Unless one has walked in these people's shoes, he/she should abstain from judgment
Yep, I would love to walk in the shoes of the woman on public assistance all her life ... with everything handed to her and never having to lift a finger to work for it. I could use a 42 inch flat screen TV, nice appliances, etc. all paid for by your friendly neighborhood taxpayer. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/18/2008 1:24:09 AM | Bloom left but I'll still reply.
silly to judge.
Unless one has walked in these people's shoes, he/she should abstain from judgment.
Resentment is never a good sign.
They started up the Quantum Leap re-runs so lets go with the concept. I get zapped into a welfare recipient that's too lazy or not bright enough to get a job. I actually get up and go find work to pay my bills and when I get zapped out I think they would be the one hating me. They would be left standing there with a J.O.B. to go to. O-boy! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/18/2008 6:47:13 AM | There are masters at scamming the system , yes, but I can assure you not a whole heck of a lot of people on social services have 42 inch flat screen t.v's or other "luxuries".
(How has this woman gotten social assistance all her life anyway ... maybe the workers should have been looking into the situation?)
Social assistance (in Alberta) has changed over the years. At one time, they even approved manicures and facials (as part of building self esteem apparently) ... but I don't think , since Kleins government , this would be possible. IF such b.s. goes on still, is it not the decently paid, GOVERNMENT workers who may not be doing THEIR jobs effectively? Abuse of any system can only happen if it is allowed... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/18/2008 8:38:08 AM | | What abt the people that a ctually need the help . This is a a very mean forum . Its not easy getting help its humiliating situation. I am 34 yrs old an get food stamps an housing help without it there would be no way i wld be able have independence from mom an dad or i would be stuck in a state run group home due to being disaabled since birth . I have tried go out an get help to get work thru department of vocational rehaabilitation to get a job but they did a few months of testing on me but due to physical disability they told me i was unemployable an sent homes . I am not lazy nore do i have a lazy bone in me. I help babysit my brothers kids when neededs . I clean my own place take care myselfs . I also am learning disabled i been told my ability to retain what i was taught stoped after the 3rd grade . I tried college i was able handle the basic courses but with lot tutoring an i had studdy harder than the avrage person . I had quit cause it was making my health worse wise . I have tried to work at workshop for disable people pay was terribles u onl;y get 10 cents per 10 boxes of fishing lures that u put together i was lucky to get 20 dollars every 2 weeks an most time that money went to medicines cause of pickin up lot illneses inn that place . Doctor told me i had quit cause i ended up in hospital for over a week. .So if it wasnt for goverment help i would be stuck living in very miserable situation. Cause my brothers dont want me an my parents are older an it not fair them be stuck with me . I am a very high functioning member of society . An people who dont think i am then they dont know me or ever spents time with me . There are a lot people like me that deserve a life even tgh we cant do what the avraage normal person can do that deserve to have a life . I do agree there are people who abuse the system i have seen that a lot but it stupid to think everyone abuses the system or are even happy to be in the system. None my furrniture is fancy most been in family for generationns have picked a few pieces for 10 dollars at most 20 . I have shop for clothes at family dollar or thrift stores or yard sales an some pieces are 15-20 yrs old been patched but still wearables . I have leaaarned how patch my own clothes . BUt theres nothing be ashamed ofs its . | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/18/2008 3:28:09 PM | Again going in circles but the system is flawed and if you try to support yourself they pull most if not all assistance. This breeds dependency on assistance and the belief that assistance is NEEDED and continuing the cycle of dependency.
I heard a news story recently that said the there are less people getting food stamps and more people should apply, the result being it will be good for the economy stimulating it and creating jobs.
I think buying crack will also stimulate the economy in the same ways and even have basically the same result of creating a dependent group of people who do not understand or want to get off the very thing that is destroying their lives from the inside out. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/19/2008 8:05:29 AM | Msg# 421: You are a prime example of whom should be able to acquire welfare benefits and with good reason. If you peruse back a few pages of this thread you'll understand that myself and others are furious of the fact that our tax dollars are funding able-bodied people that CAN work but quite simply choose not to.
You, and other types like you I will gladly give a portion of my paycheck to and I admire you for posting your situation here. I hope others that leech off the system after smokin' a joint or two will read your post, count their blessings and get off their butts and get a job!
God bless you honey! As far as I'm concerned you're doing a better job of handling your life than most of us whom aren't relying on public assistance.
In my eyes Jen, you are beautiful inside and out!!
Kudos to you!!
Sans | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/19/2008 8:20:39 AM |
You, and other types like you I will gladly give a portion of my paycheck to and I admire you for posting your situation here. I hope others that leech off the system after smokin' a joint or two will read your post. I agree with *Sanschele*.
There are many valid reasons for people accessing public assistance, the foremost one being disability. I don't see this as the same category as welfare at all - this is a necessary option that needs to be available to persons in need of a disability pension.
My issue is that too many able-bodied people are making excuses for poor choices, and abusing a system which is designed to help people help themselves. Too many people feel a sense of entitlement in having the government support them because of a situation they've placed themselves in through poor choices in the past, and by continuing to make those choices without thought of empowering themselves.
Its the people that are abusing the system that I and others are opposed to...
I would bend over backwards to support a system that ensured people truly in need are given the support they require.
Cheers... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/19/2008 9:52:51 AM | "My issue is that too many able-bodied people are making excuses for poor choices, and abusing a system which is designed to help people help themselves. Too many people feel a sense of entitlement in having the government support them because of a situation they've placed themselves in through poor choices in the past, and by continuing to make those choices without thought of empowering themselves. " (My quote tags aren't working for some reason.)
This entire thread can be summed up with Psst's statement.
Indeed, we all make our own choices and most people that make bad choices don't realize they have to live with them. I've made less than desirable choices in the past but have never, ever called on anyone in public assistance to bail me out of my own stupidity. I didn't have kids because I knew I could never afford them. I didn't buy the nicest house/condo in the neighborhood because I knew I couldn't afford to make the mortgage payments down here. I don't have any fashionable clothing..I buy my clothes from goodwill and am damn proud of it! What I DO have is integrity, dignity, and the willingness to work hard for a living and to not have to rely on anyone for my existence if I don't have to. Especially welfare...this system is designed for people on disability and for those that cannot help themselves but are at least trying to climb out of their poverty by demonstrating a strong will to not have to coast along on my paycheck..pffft! I simply have no sympathy for people on this thread that have to take a hit off their "bong" and then get back to me with their drivel on why they "need" benefits from the government.
Sans | |
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