|
|
|
|
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 6:12:43 AM | | Because they all get everything under the sun ~ FREE , food stamp's , medical and dental : Whenever I get sick or hurt , I alway's have to apply for " Charity Care " every time : I have no health insurance on my job : I think us working people are tired of supporting unwanted kids , drunks and addicts : | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 7:17:55 AM | Seems there's plenty of people suffering from "the grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome.
If you think people on welfare are so financially better off than you are (ahem) working, why not quit your job and go on welfare?
A few years back Mike Harris cut welfare payments by one third to give tax payers a big tax break.
I seen then as I still see today the harm that was done to people who were already struggling before the cuts.
Oh, by the way, that big tax cut that I received amounted to $1.30 every two weeks, or under $40 a year.
For those who think they are so much better than anyone who is on welfare, can you explain why there are people who live in $500,000 homes, have boats, new cars etc. go to the food banks?
The answer is it's a very few that do and how do I know that they are not really in need at that time?
Picking on social assistance recipients makes one nothing more than a bully and very unattractive.
Why not have the guts to do something about corporate welfare?
I forgot, bullies are afraid to go after someone who can defend themselves - Right? | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 8:00:14 AM | some of these are really harsh
what i call Baby Poppers cause they keep having children and not even attempting to go on birth control
then the ones who Fake disability to get extra money and work under the table
some work but still don't get enough ..in those cases they (suppose)send there pay stubs in to the worker for the income statement date...a welfare person can only be allowed up to 200 then the rest comes of the check
if there common law and both not working the check will be made for 2 people instead
emergency cases allow the food stamps and stuff like that
if one partner is working then it goes with the working thing as well
there are so many different cases...the ones who abuse it pis* me off too cause they ruin it for the honest people who are just trying to better themselves
its good for anyone who needs a medical plan and doesn't have one though...its free and ya you don't get the greatest coverage and have extra hassles to get surtan medications but at least its something...and here welfare will only cover 20% of dental if its an emergency...so you still have to pay 80% either way...i think its the same for eyes as well..not sure about that one though...
depression is not a disability
the only time a mental illness of any kind be a disability if the person has truly tried every type of job and even medication doesn't keep them calm enough to work
physical disabilities be about the same depending how serious the situation is
offering birth control??? good luck with that....might as well include that with medical plan cause welfare never give out birth control for free...well not here anyway
i dinno how it works in other places but by the sounds of it depends where your from and what the rules are for that area then...ya there are lots of abusers...but remember not everyone is abusing it!!!some of us are honest and want to get of it someday but right now is not the time... | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 11:52:07 AM | I am not surprised at all by the polarization of opinions here. Clearly, some of these opinions come from more educated (I'm not talking books here) or at least objective perspectives, while others choose to spout rhetoric usually reserved for racists and other socially unnaceptable thugs.
The fact that people throw such vile and disgusting language around without any thought (or consequence) clearly illustrates the challenges these people (you can include my stint last year on the books) face on a daily basis. Now think about just how OFTEN these people expierience this disgusting ignorance. Imagine that piled on top of what is often already a demoralized and dejected individual. Trust me, acting all Rocky like is certainly a romantic notion until you figure out that Rocky isn't in a ring with one opponent, but in a back alley being jumped by a whole gang with clubs and knives.
And nobody really cares too much cause it's not broadcast to them on their huge plasma screen they put on their already bloated credit line.
Do you, those of you who posted thus far, who clearly look down on these people honestly think you deserve all that you have right now if you have no social conscience whatsover??? Why should you be allowed to go through life being so greedy and ego-centric??? You have what you have because you live amongst others of your own kind. You're not really doing ANYTHING on your own. Not truely anyway. If you take you are therefore responsible to give.
The clear answer is an overhaul of our toxic social system that includes the type of educational and health care related support to allow EVERY single citizen to reach their full potential. Because let's face it, despite the unavoidable truth that there will always be a relatively small percentage of the population who really are lazy but for the most part people have been allowed to fall through the cracks instead of being empowered. I'm talking the difference between red tape and the red carpet. It's all well and good to have a can do attitude but it's difficult to maintain when the majority is chanting, no you can't.
Everyone has something to offer society, something they enjoy doing, are good at and often would do naturally on their own time, or for free. In fact, how many people reading this are working and contributing to society but are miserable at how they do it??? How many functional people really feel trapped???
Don't you think that with our limited life spans we owe it to ourselves and each other to make the most of our own oppourtunities while providing the proper support for others to do the same??? | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 12:16:51 PM | well in reality its the government that pays working people and welfare...they control taxes and all that lovely stuff
working/welfare both have a right to being healthy...in hospitals it should be first come first serve....or take the most serious problems in first them the less serious for last...
now what some said that deeply disturbed me was along the lines of " working class pays taxes and we should come first cause we're not bums and lazy" that attitude towards welfare people really does bug me cause i'm newly diagnosed with adhd and trying to finish up school finally...without my meds i be screwed...so i need the support if i ever want a chance to get of it...same goes for anyone else with medication situations..they need the meds for there health to stay good or to work/school
its not right to denie anyone that chance to better themselves...or denie them there health...after all we have a health card for a reason don't we??? | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 1:43:13 PM | I was on welfare once, for a month in my early twenties. I used the money mainly for rent, the food portion I got by with products from the local food bank. Although next month cheque was ready for pickup, I didn't go back because I found a temporary job already. I was getting paid in a couple of weeks, I only had to tough it out. The money I made was almost the same as welfare, but it was a good start. It's always better to ride the donkey before you find the horse.
I know of single mothers who work full time and still do not have enough money for the basic necessity. So I think in this case, I believe in subsidies. But then again, I also know of other Non-Western countries, if you don't have enough. You'll die. I am very lucky to be living in a Western world.
Anyone who can't find a job could start at the basics by cutting lawns. At $15 - 35 per lawn, there's a lot in your pockets the end of the day.
*My pet peeve* It's welfare Wednesday, someone on assistants talking a taxi home after spending a good chunk of their money on lottery tickets or booze.
I believe the social welfare system is ONLY a social safety net, NOT a way of life. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 3:32:34 PM | Once, I had a situtation when my health insurer bailed out after I went to the doctor. What a huge surprise, eh. It turned into a six-year thing that cost tens of thousands and since no other insurer would cover it (what a huge surprise, eh) , I had to find help wherever I could and one was a govt program but I don't remember which. I'm just glad it was around or I woulda wound up on the streets. Or dead.
 | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 3:38:19 PM | "You have what you have because you live amongst others of your own kind. You're not really doing ANYTHING on your own. Not truely anyway. If you take you are therefore responsible to give."
Okay, let's say for the sake of argument that someone was the product of an adolescent mother with an absent father.... on welfare. Let's say that all the female role models (the aunts) of this child were also on welfare raising their kids on their own. Let's say also, that no one in this child's family had an education, (average of grade 9)they (mostly) all had some sort of criminal record, had drugs or alcohol problems, and they all cheated the government one way or another. Let's say that from early on, this child would continually hear statements like, "you're born poor, you will stay poor" or, "if you don't cheat the government, the government will cheat you". Let's say that this child decides to not become the next statistic. (teen pregnancy, dropping out etc etc) Let's say that this teen leaves home at 15, and rather than go on welfare works enough hours (at minimum wage) to pay rent and complete his/her highschool. Let's say this child becomes an adult, leaves and gets a post-secondary education... and works just because "it is the right thing to do". Under these circumstances, would this individual be allowed to judge?
It's easy for people who were raised in middle class households to sympathize with this world. They don't know what it is. They have no idea of the mentality (the world owes me!!!) behind it.
When I was still in University, I was working in a fast food. You know which day of the month I hated? Always near the first of the month. The place would be packed with people.... and always the rudest bunch. To the point that "we" (the staff) would dread that day... and fight over who would have to serve. Hard to sympathize with people when they make your minimum wage job that much more exhausting.
Now don't get me wrong... I do believe that some people do need a helping hand. Whether it be cognitive, spychological, or physical disabilities. However, welfare was never meant to be used as a generational support system: statistically if parents are on it, the kids will be on it too. We live in a society where people don't have to be responsible for their actions anymore. We make up all kinds of excuses for people. Teenage girl gets pregnant, "that's ok, I live in Canada I'm guaranteed welfare". Boy does poorly in school/life, "I have adhd"... "I'm learning disabled" ... Come on! I know some university graduates that prefer taking welfare because minimum wage is just beneath them. It's not always easy "turning that wheel", but why do some of us do it, and others don't? | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 3:47:08 PM | you need to read my last mention of "Rocky". The fact is that getting out of that type of pattern is the exception and not the rule. You are correct though...it is not meant to be a generational support system...but because we as a society invest so little in the programs...well...the old saying goes you get what you pay for.
So this is what we get. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:05:21 PM |
Having people say they should be sterilized? My goodness how selfish and ignorant can people be! Should we do this to the men who need welfare as well? Surely they reproduce too? I agree... men who use welfare as a lifestyle should succumb to the same standards... I do not discriminate based on gender.
They think they are high and mighty when often they are ignorant of street knowledge and of harsh life experiences that create social strata. So... generalizations are wrong, yet sterotypical groupings are acceptable?
I think you would be surprised at the backgrounds of some of the posters who are in agreement with me; you'd find that rather than allow adversity to overwhelm them, they rose above it and can attest to the capabilities of the individual who relies upon themselves as opposed to reliance on a benevolent societal structure.
What about those cities that existed because of mining or pulp or fishing industries? These were responsible men who have families to feed and expenses to be paid. Men who have had no other work experience than the one they did for 30 some odd years. What are these people to do once the factory closes? Is it their fault? I live in a city which has based its industry on mining and fringe industries. Does this mean that if the company I choose to work for at the moment closes, I get a free ride for the remainder of my career?
There's always a choice in life. People who choose to see only one path should not be my burden to support.
I reiterate ~ this system was intended to assist, not support the masses. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:13:05 PM | wow.
maybe i'm naive...or maybe i've spent too many years working in the non-profit sector...but i had no idea such vehement stigmas still existed regarding marginalized people groups.
ignorance and lack of tolerance re: the poverty-ridden in our society is frightening.
i'm a product of one of those "lazy" welfare bums.
i watched my mother struggle every day of my life to balance dollars and cents to ensure that we would be fed and clothed, to keep a roof over our heads. as a young girl she was forced to leave school early to help support her siblings. she escaped an abusive, dysfunctional home the only way she knew how--the only way uneducated women like her could in her era: she married. into another abusive, dysfunctional home. three kids and a few years later, she got brave enough to go it alone. on a grade 7 education. she tried to work many times; the ongoing battle between childcare fees that ate up whatever income she gained, transportation expenses, etc pretty much put her back at square one. not to mention the hours it took her away from us, and left her open to the risk of losing us to the system b/c a ten-year old boy is in no position to take care of his younger siblings. besides, as one poster mentioned, the moment you earn over a certain amount (miniscule, in the grand scheme of things), welfare adjusts your support by that much.
that's the system for you: the "hand out" is barely enough to get by on (certainly not enough to live comfortably on, as some seem to presume), and whatever income you do make, the system takes back. "one step forward, two steps back" was a phrase i've heard my mother utter countless times through my upbringing. navigating through the system is a vicious cycle, and not so easy to step out of once the wheels are turning.
when i look back on my life and upbringing, there's a lot that i missed out on. but i wouldn't change a thing. watching my mother struggle the way she did scared the hell out of me; i determined at a very young age that i would *never* live that way. it motivated me to rise above, and to overcome the stereotypes, the labels, the assumptions that i would amount to nothing. i see the same thing in my siblings; each of us has worked hard to get to where we are in life, and are very successful in our respective career paths.
in this case, i'm thankful for the way the system supported my mother. my humble beginnings greatly shaped me, taught me the value of an education, hard work, and above all--compassion for those who fight to rise above their own obstacles.
you can all judge those lazy, good-for-nothing welfare bums as much as you like...but i know a heck of a lot of lazy, employed folks who think that the world owes them something, too... | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:16:12 PM | So it's survival of the fittest then...that's the key to our evolution???
I highly doubt that. Our ability to rise above this natural instinct is what separates us from the other animals. My point is don't throw stones at people if you ( and society) haven't made necessary tools accesible to all people, with different needs and abilities.
Again...ego centric thinking is an abomination to humanity. Saying I can, so must you is over simplistic and does not address the issues at hand.
Eventually the poor will outnumber the "rich"...and then we'll see what people are saying. We are in a social credit crisis not unlike the mortgage crisis many will face in a very short time. Think about that for a minute. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:23:20 PM |
Eventually the poor will outnumber the "rich"...and then we'll see what people are saying. And when this happens, how will the "rich" manage to support the poor of society without bottoming out?
You are of the opinion that it is the obligation of the upper classes to willingly dole out excess funds to elevate the people in a lower economic arena. At what point does this charity become rewarding for the people who work each day to ensure they live the lifestyle they want as opposed to the lifestyle others are willing to offer them?
Welfare was designed as a hand up, not a hand out... Think about that for a minute. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:27:18 PM |
i had no idea such vehement stigmas still existed
Growing up I don't remember those stigmas being so overt but maybe I was sheilded somehow. Or maybe it has more to do with politics today where loud commentary is taken as seriously as well-reasoned. Thank you, Fox News.
| |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 6:23:46 PM | Yes, this is clearly an alarmingly right wing thread written by people who largely probably claim to be good christians and the like. Until you've walked the mile in the other's shoes, shut the f-ck up and stop judging vast numbers of people. Following this twisted logic: Maybe we should nuke mexico while we are at it to stop illegal immigration. Lets sterilize 90% of the earth's population and sieze the remaining 10% of the worlds resources. Only fearful people sit around judging groups. Why dont you try doing something useful about bad government economic policies (corporate welfare, tax breaks for the rich, deficit spending in order to build bombs ect) instead of sitting around ****ing and blaming the poor. Shame on you!
For the others who tried to share a sense of compassion for other human beings, my hat is off to you.
Haters cause more harm than the poor. Plain and simple.
| |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 8:02:29 PM | Wow a lot of die hard opinions on both sides of this one.
I agree, the system was designed to be a hand up vs a hand out.
There are many who need to avail of these programs.
The fact of the matter remains, none of us know where we will be tomorrow, next week or next year. Job loss, downsizing, illness or the death of a spouse could put any of us into the position of requiring help.
No matter what rules are in place with any system, there will always be those who break them or make their own. Abuse exists everywhere in life.
Because you know of people who abuse food banks, does this give you justification you need to avoid donating ??? This can be applied to any charitable organization that exists. There are those that choose to take advantage of whatever they can.Where or how this mentality comes from is anyones guess.
Whatever the cause or the resaon, the fact remains there are needy people within our society. Yes, a portion of these are abusers, but not all.
Should the majority be made to suffer as the result of the actions of a few ??? I think it better to that those that need assistance receive it even if there are those who take advantage..
With regard to birth control, it is covered in this province under the social assistance drug program. The funny thing is, so are fertility drugs. I find this odd. Most private insurance don't cover them as it is not cost effective to do so.  | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 10:47:17 PM | Its my personal opion that there are to many people who abuse the system and the funds are very limited .
There are differnt types of people out there ok you have those who are disabled and cant work and you have those out there that can work.
now the people who cant work and on a fixed income dont get the help they need such as if they are on ssi or ssdi or bouth i have known people that have there food stamps drop to 20.00 a month sad ha and most people get only 400.00-to 600.00 a month or a little more or less that pays for the rent,bill's,ect and by that time when they do need help they cant get it from the state they live in.
But they give help to those who can work but choose not to thats wrong i would think they would have some kind of proof that they are in deed disabled or on a fixed income.
And what amazes me that people who dont need it get it and to see thease people driving new cars ,living in a nice place and on ssi and ssdi it makes you wonder and if they are abled to work why stay on the benafits.
And you also got those who make children but dont want to work and collect i figure if they where able to make the child then there able to work and support the child not sit on there buts and live of on other tax payers money. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 12:08:10 AM | just to clarify my statements, i'm not against welfare at all. i am however against people abusing it. there are huge drug problems associated with welfare recipients, and i feel as though if they are going to be living off the governments money, they should be drug tested. and they should also be on birth control. there is absolutely, positively, NO reason to be having children when you can't afford to take care of yourself, or any children you already have. if these people stopped breeding, and stopped wasting OUR money on drugs, then possibly, they could actually use the income as a stepping stone to a better life. yeah, it sounds cliche, but its really not. there are so many opportunities in america to go to college for free, to go to a trade school, or learn whatever valuable skill your little heart desires. colleges have free daycare, as do trade schools. there is no reason for these people to be sitting on their lazy asses, doing nothing to better themselves, and set themselves up to support themselves in the future. rehab is free, doctors and hospitalization are free, the tools are there, but these people don't want to help themselves. i'm not saying that everybody on welfare falls under this category, but there are enough people who do, that this is becoming a problem with no solution in sight. everybody is so afraid to not be politically correct, to not step on anybodies rights and whatnot, but in reality, its their choice to cash the checks. and in exchange for those checks, there should be some form of consequence and responsibility.
everyone's hung up on the single mother, the rape victim, and other obscure cases. i don't see how drug testing, and birth control can hurt these people either. if they are unfit to work, or clearly have no ability to earn an income, they have no business doing either. go to school, get a decent job, and smoke as much weed as you want, and have as many babies as you can afford to have. but nobody should have the luxury of living a free life, due to whatever circumstance they either put themselves in, or were put in by somebody else. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 5:35:31 AM | Nowhere in my post do I say that I agree that people who are capable of working should get a life-long free ride. Indeed, even those who have worked in the same industry for 30 years + can go back to school for training. It was my mistake for not mentioning this. Some ASSume way too much when reading between lines.
My contention is with those who judge, label and discriminate without knowing the life-history of people in need. My Anthropology Master's thesis was about urban poverty. In that process, I've collected many, many life-histories. Not only have I seen the debilitating effect of welfare discrimination but I've also felt the brunt of welfare discrimination myself. I've known a few people who have judge me and others who would not give me the time of day when I was receiving it but who have now realised that they seriously misjudged me. The topic of the post is ''why judge'' not why support or not support.
Again, I say goodness forbid those who are so dead set against social assistance ever end up needing it themselves. Walk a mile in their shoes before judging, that's all I'm saying. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 5:48:59 AM | It surprising that some people don't realize that SS and welfare were created at times when social unrest could have lead to violent uprisings in this country.
This could happen again.
There's a huge class divide in this country that's usually displayed as race or gender issues.
If a demagogue came along w/ a good line of BS, he (or she) could exploit this class divide and the money we would spend on quelling the resulting social unrest would probably make us long for the days of food stamps and welfare checks.
This country has always existed for tenuous reasons.
Only until the last 40 years have most of its citizens (minorities and women) been able to avail themselves to the numerous opportunities that exist here.
Wouldn't consolidating THOSE gains and strengthening our society be wiser course of action than complaining that a relatively small amount of money is being to a relatively small number of people? | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 8:18:35 AM | its amazing and interesting all the different views on this....
well yes it was orginlay made for help support ones who really need support or supporting emergency cases as well...
at one time i remember you didn't have to wait 6 weeks to get on it now you have to wait 6 weeks before everything is set up...
also the age comes into play now...at 19 you can apply for welfare on your own...but under 19 you go through something else...forget what its called but i had a friend who was 17 and on welfare but she went through something else to get money till she was 19 then went on it herself....though i'm pretty sure it was a group home that was in charge of her money till she turned 19
the reason the poor is so upset is because we're not getting everything we need to truly better are selves and same goes for anyone else who works or on welfare....
the rich...well think about it there not much better off...imagine there taxes they have to pay??? or how big there bills are...with all the fancy stuff they have i hate to see there credit card bill 
so really we are all in the same boat when it comes to life...you either have it all and are in major debt constainly paying on bills or poor and have to struggle to get what you need/want...
then middle class that have both ends lots of constant bills and debts building along with getting enough to get whats needed to live healthy...
so its a no win battle no matter how you look at it...the government will always find way to take your money and legally take it without you having a say in the matter... | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 8:58:22 AM | In the 50's when men left Ireland to get work overseas, women were left penniless to raise their 10 or more children (average number in a catholic family). The majority of these men, either never sent a penny home or never returned. Women were forced to split the children - the church put them into industrial schools or sent them away to live with relatives - some never seeing their family again... So to avoid history repeating itself, a woman who found herself on her own with a child was offered a handout by society... Their entitlements today
1. Social Housing Apartment or House (usually 3 bedroomed).
2. All furniture and appliances paid for.
3. Lone parents allowance.
4. Children's allowance - over here used for a holiday or mother's nights out.
5. FIS - Family Income Supplement - When a mother decides to work part-time.
6. Rent allowance - If she can't get social housing, she will have to find 300euros out of 1500 euros per month cost on private and luxury renting.
7. Clothes allowance. School uniform allowance.
8. Free medical costs.
9. Nappies, baby food and other stuff for babies.
10. Free education to help her return to the workforce -
What am I entitled to being single and working - nothing. I have had to pay for doctors, rent and travel - earn just above the tax break thereby doubling my taxes each year. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 10:46:48 AM | What am I entitled to being single and working - nothing. I have had to pay for doctors, rent and travel - earn just above the tax break thereby doubling my taxes each year.
Along those same lines:here in the US if you are single,make less than $30,000 and have three or more kids you pay no income taxes.For people like myself who make more than $30,000 and have no kids we pay the full amount...that's not fair.
To joro:this is not a right wing conspiracy so chill out,I care about poor people who have fallen on hard times but I have no compassion for people who are lazy and scam the system. | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 11:00:50 AM | what this means to me is that we need to widen the benefits, not cut them. Simultaneously, i do support increasing accountability. I support a time specific benefit for anybody and an extended benefit for someone who can prove they are working at improving themselves through approved educational programs be it 1, 2 or a 4 year program. That means day care, health care, rent utilities ect.
The question is not should we give hand outs vs hand ups. The question is what is the burdern of proof that you should get it. unfortunately, many of those who need the help face a pile of issues on the paperwork side too. its only natural. So you may choose to cop a F- the mom attitude. I disagree, but respect that. But as has been said, what about the kid? cant blame him/her can you? | |
|
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/4/2008 11:51:01 AM | Earlier, some guy said that "All women on welfare should be on birth control". While I do think this is a good idea...it really makes me angry when men say that. Why? Because there had to be a male that helped to make that baby. So in using your train of thought, should all men who have sex with someone on welfare be sterilized?
I think one of the primary problems with our social services sytem here in the U.S. is the number of young people (capable of working) who are on public assistance because of having children before they are ready to take care of them. As a college professor, I actually heard one of my students referring to her "babies' fathers", meaning she had two children both with different fathers...and yes, she was on public welfare program. I have to add that I am glad that she is trying to obtain education that might one day get her off the program.
For every Mother there is a Father for that child. I think the primary problem is that many are dead-beat dads and the welfare system does not tend to go looking to them to pitch in and help raise their children.
But most of all, I feel sorry for the children. For I believe in most cases, "We are a product of our past" and if these children continue to live in poverty, they will see it as their way of life for eternity....How sad an outlook for a child not asked to be born.
I say shame, shame shame..... | |
|
|
| Page 2 of 22
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 |
|
Home
login 
