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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:55:10 PM | There are time limits. There is daycare assistance (which again, is "welfare" so it would just be more people getting more benefits, but I thought that was the issue in the first place? People getting too much in benefits?). There are steps one has to take to continue getting assistance, such as reporting to the UE office once a month.
Of course everyone is going to agree that those who are abusing the system suck. However, that's not what the argument has been over for several pages. It's been dictating who is ok to get assistance and who isn't. It's been "well you should have planned better... you should do what *I* do... "
What could we do to better the system? Require everyone to take a money management course as well as report to UE, and have a set time limit like is already required. Make those that are in school report their grades every semester. If they are getting low grades, no more assistance. Make them complete their degree or have to pay back all they got in assistance. Give those that are truly disabled more in benefits than those who are just between jobs or whatever. My mom is disabled and gets social security. She also gets food stamps, but it's less than $100 a month. She basically lives on peanut butter and crackers. I think those people should get a bigger portion of the assistance since they can't go out and work. Random check ins on those getting assistance to make sure others aren't living there that aren't supposed to be. Report every place you applied for in that month so that social workers can check to see if you really applied. (They should do this with UE benefits as well. It's too easy to claim you are applying for jobs when you really aren't.) | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/1/2008 3:15:25 AM | I can't believe that some people can't spot a tree in the middle of a forest...
Au contraire, lizbeth ... we can spot all the abusers from a mile away and like any rotten tree in a forest, they should be cut down.
I don't think the OP intended this thread to turn into an arguement of who is and how many are milking the social benefit system.I took it as more of a thought provoking thread about what kind of people may need the system rather than an invite to express negative personal opinions regarding the people who are relying on it
If you analyze the thread title more closely, you'll notice that it's "why judge ... " which in itself implies a verdict upon the social stigma of welfare ... a stigma that arises out of system abuse.
From the OP's first post:
so why are so many having issues with people on welfare??
Many of the posters on here have been expressing why they have issues with people on welfare ... specifically the abusers. Yet time and time again, you dilute what has been said with vague (and often ambiguous) preachings of why we shouldn't judge.
Excuse me?? " ... negative personal opinions regarding the people who are relying on it". The only negative opinions (on here) have been with the people relying on it ... but don't deserve it ... such as those baby-making single parents who keeps popping out more in order to get additional money out of the system.
Mxyzptlk said in one of his earlier posts that welfare abusers were in the minority.
Yes, there is abuse of the system. It is, however, a small minority
If that was the case, there wouldn't be so much stigma attached to the system. However, since there is ... it would suggest that the abuse is more widespread than he is led to believe.
I am baffled at how easy it is for some to turn a situation like this into a debate by twisting words and cherry picking quotes
You are baffled because you refuse to truly acknowledge that some people simply shouldn't be on welfare. Until you do, you'll be one confused poster.
I personally have known people that abuse the system and it infuriates me... ^^Uhmm HELLO...anyone see the big PINK elephant in the room?^^^^
Yes ... and the pink elephant have left the room. Your point being???
there seem to be a few people who are basing their opinions on a personal experience with people that are known to have abused the welfare system...Soo voicing an opinion that most or almost all people on welfare are milking the system seems logical? What cloud are you people on?
A poster (way back in post164) suggested that we need to have personal experiences with people abusing the system in order to form proper opinions, yet you seem to suggest the opposite. I don't believe anyone has said most or almost all people on welfare are abusing the system ... only that there are sufficient numbers to warrant cracking down on them.
Personal experiences ... stories from others plus statistics is what allow people to form their opinions. What have you been smoking to sit on your isolated cloud??
If anyone "personally" knows anyone that is cheating the system or even suspects that someone is cheating the system... for the luv of GOD....REPORT THEM.
In the mean time....those of you who have "personally" known people who ripped off the welfare system but didn't report it..... you don't have a friggen clue about the real world
Perhaps they've already made such reports. How do you know they haven't?? That's just your friggen self-validating assertion. Even with individual reports of abuse ... the system is rife with so many bureaucratic holes, the abuse continues ... unabated.   | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/1/2008 6:27:34 PM |
the social stigma of welfare ... a stigma that arises out of system abuse
On the contrary, the stigma comes from just being in the system. It doesn't arise from abuse, but from false accusations of abuse - too many people, as we've seen right here in this thread, want to assume that everybody on welfare is a scammer. That is by far the biggest problem facing the system, and the hardest to combat.
If that was the case, there wouldn't be so much stigma attached to the system. However, since there is ... it would suggest that the abuse is more widespread than he is led to believe
Actually, since it IS the case, that suggests that the ignorance - if not outright bigotry - of those who attack people on welfare is the true source of the stigma, and that it is at least as widespread as I believe. Also, I have been "led to believe" nothing; my conclusions were reached by impartial observation, a method no opponent of the the system seems to have tried.
You are baffled because you refuse to truly acknowledge that some people simply shouldn't be on welfare. Until you do, you'll be one confused poster.
So far, I haven't seen anybody refusing to acknowledge this. However, there seem to be many who refuse to acknowledge that some people simply do genuinely need the help. Until they do acknowledge it, they will continue to be an impediment to any fair solution. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/1/2008 6:50:11 PM |
On the contrary, the stigma comes from just being in the system. It doesn't arise from abuse, but from false accusations of abuse - too many people, as we've seen right here in this thread, want to assume that everybody on welfare is a scammer. That is by far the biggest problem facing the system, and the hardest to combat.
Exactly. Guilty until proven (or approved) innocent. The problem is, everyone is still thinking of the 80's when this kind of stuff happened a lot more. It was easier to scam the system and more people did it. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/2/2008 10:10:38 AM |
You do not address specifics ... rather your posts are mere generalizations.
Since the thread title is a general question, I respond with general observations. I have, however, addressed specifics - specifically including your inaccurate claims.
I stand firm in the belief that it's system abuse that's causing the stigma ... and not just being on it
Unfortunately, your belief can't change the facts. That being on welfare is a stigma is a fact, no matter how stridently you try to deny it.
Social activists often describe anyone not aligned to their cause as being "ignorant" while those who see what they see as being "well-informed"
Perhaps this is because, in regard to social justice and social welfare issues, attacks do tend to come from the ignorant, while the well-informed do tend to support those causes. That's a trend I can hardly be blamed for.
how is it a false accusation when a young mom repeatedly get pregnant ... knowing that each new baby cost more money ... expecting a bigger check for their efforts
Nobody has said that this is a false accusation. Using this one example to condemn others in the system, or to attack the system as a whole, however, is definitely a false accusation - as is taking my statement out of context, as you've done here. The false accusation I spoke of is the assumption that all or a majority of welfare recipients are scamming, and I made that clear.
Impartial or one-sided ... only the side you wish to believe?
Being impartial means that what I "wish" to believe is irrelevant. In matters such as this, I have no interest in what I, you, or anybody else "wishes" to believe, only in objective evidence. That is impartiality, which is a quality yet to be seen in anything you've posted.
When people's sorry situations are the direct result of their own poor choices
Yes.... to blame the impoverished for their poverty is much easier than doing anything constructive to help, isn't it? Poor-bashing is much easier - and cheaper - than showing any sign or conscience or social responsibility. Sadly, the majority of people are taking the easy way out on this issue, and always have. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/2/2008 12:43:30 PM | i can guarantee everyone who has posted i never intended this thread to turn into an argument but a chance to discuss one of the many issues in this world
i found it very sad that some couldn't have enough denceny(i know spelled wrong) but to insult and glad many have finally calmed down enough to discuss this without name calling...
yes i did leave as a broad range so everyone could have a chance to express there views equally on the issue
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/2/2008 1:55:39 PM |
Sadly, the majority of people are taking the easy way out on this issue, and always have.
This is where the stigma comes from...where the ignorance lies. There are far more people choosing ignorance on this issue than there are poor people scamming the system. Maybe we should start sterilizing those who choose to ignore their social responsibilities if we're going to keep leaning on the poor like this thread has. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/2/2008 2:12:59 PM |
Maybe we should start sterilizing those who choose to ignore their social responsibilities if we're going to keep leaning on the poor like this thread has. You are obviously having a difficult time comprehending the fact that the disgust and animosity shown in this thread is towards the people using this as a free ride. The flagrant abuse of the system by drug users, women having babies to increase their cheque size and others who simply choose to use a system as a means of regular support as opposed to a venue to better themselves and become self-sufficient.
I am fully aware of my social obligations, and I take this steps further than the average person by volunteering my time and effort to various organizations and individuals. I assist in re-educating people to become productive members of society and offer them the opportunity to stand on their own two feet as opposed to relying on welfare.
Furthermore, I made a conscious decision to not have more children than I could support.
But go ahead and think what you will of me... while I'm attending a gala dinner which supports these charitable organizations... I'll certainly be thinking of how fortunate I am to have ensured my continued prosperity and independence...
Cheers... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/2/2008 3:59:01 PM | No PSSST...I comprehend just fine.
What I'm suggesting is that people should just stow their disgust and animosity toward 0ther people period. Negativity is a choice, just like positivity is. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/2/2008 5:49:46 PM | In March 2000 my furnace broke down, someone slashed all 4 tires 3 times, our company sales went down drastically, and I had missed almost a week of work due to an 18mm kidney stone. Sheeeeesh when it rains it pours.
I went to the food bank three times that month and twice the next because I was flat broke! I didn't choose any of that stuff mentioned before and certainly had to feed my kids. I weighed about 245 or 250 and you should have felt yes FELT the total contempt people threw at me! No I'm NOT some damn fat lazy parasite!!! I ate NOTHING but ramen noodles, water, and 1 vitamin a day + whatever I could trap or forage in the woods. This lasted for about 5 solid months! I'd be damned before I'd make my boys go through that! So I went to the food bank and fed anything I got there to them and them only.
Money is ok now and I donate to the food bank and help various missions with volunteering and occasionally some money. And I obviously don't miss many meals now. Not everyone you see is there for a handout. Some folks truly do need a helping hand and thankfully it's there for all of us. What is the longest any of you complainers have gone without food? I have already skipped 3 days and still made it to work. And believe me chipmunk is delicious if you can catch the little rascals.
Don't snivel and whine about abuses HELL YES there will be abuses but there is also GOOD to be given and gotten there and in welfare! If you want to change it then join in and help. If not then politely keep your negativity to yourself! Any moron can criticize but a truly intelligent, caring person will offer solutions and at least try to help.
Sorry for the harshness but darn it sometimes you have to stand up and tell it straight. Thanks for reading this. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/4/2008 3:08:48 AM | Pad....
Regarding your post #477....well...it's BS
FYI..I am not confused..I am informed and concerned about how my nieghbours live.
As far as I am concerned...you Pad..are a follower..because as a leader you can't perpetuate a social stigma that already has existed for 50 years....but as a follower it is easier to refuse and recognize that this problem has existed for so long.
I hear you talkin the talk Pad....but I don't see you walkin the walk. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:37:48 PM | Hey pad why the hateful attitude? Are you angry because you need it? I had an uncle who made a good living off welfare. He and I are way different people. Look at what was taught in schools when the users were being educated. At my highschool you couldn't even take economics and were judged a queer if you took home ec. If you scored high and messed up the curve you got a swirly . I brough home A's and if I were stupid enough to show my folks they didn't care or worse I got fist in the mouth for being prideful. Believe me there are more reasons than laziness, greed, and stupidtity to be on welfare. And once you are on it try to get a job. Employers don't want the stupid, lazy, or greedy working for them either! It can be a horrible trap for the unwary. I suffered my own economic downturn and am truly thankful I did not HAVE to use it. But I would swallow my pride and feed my kids if I had needed it.
I KNOW my neighbors and would help them out if they needed help. To repeat an earlier post yes there is abuse but there is also good. No human should EVER go hungry. PERIOD. We p away 100's of billions for our much desired resources. Why not divert some of the $ spent on war to fixing our own problems. The rich UNhungry politicians WANT us to throw out the idea that government should help people. The more ignorant people they anger the more divisive the issue becomes. Divide and conquer right? I for one am DISGUSTED with government of the $, for the $, and by the $. FOOLS, yes, FOOLS like you are helping the fat cats and you don't even know it! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/6/2008 11:46:13 PM | the stigma comes from just being in the system. It doesn't arise from abuse, but from false accusations of abuse - too many people, as we've seen right here in this thread, want to assume that everybody on welfare is a scammer
A stigma can be defined as a "mark or sign of disgrace" on ones reputation being socially unacceptable. That disgrace is evident when poor choices are made and assistance is required to mitigate the severity of said poor choices. Just being on the system isn't a disgrace when the person requiring that assistance was dealt an unfair hand in life such as a disability at birth or circumstances beyond their control later in life. However, when a person knowingly causes the circumstances of their misery (e.g. not finishing school or having babies while young and without financial stability) ... then I would say the individual is indeed scamming the system ... and this is not a false accusation based on assumption. I knew an individual in that exact circumstance.
Actually, since it IS the case, that suggests that the ignorance - if not outright bigotry - of those who attack people on welfare is the true source of the stigma, and that it is at least as widespread as I believe. Also, I have been "led to believe" nothing; my conclusions were reached by impartial observation, a method no opponent of the the system seems to have tried
Excuse me, but the only people on welfare who are attacked are the ones don't deserve to be on it ... they stigmatize themselves. Impartial observation indeed. You see what you want to see ... that mostly everyone on welfare have a right to be on it ... turning a blind-eye to the abusers, believing that they are merely a glitch in the system of social service delivery.
However, there seem to be many who refuse to acknowledge that some people simply do genuinely need the help
If you had read the thread throughly, you noticed that all the posters who are against the abusers have acknowledged the ones genuinely in need of it. I would think that you (too) would join the crowd to rid the system of the cheats so the money they received (illegally) actually goes to those in genuine need.
Guilty until proven (or approved) innocent
I would say a single mom (while on social assistance) and still continue popping out kids are guilty. No proof necessary.
Since the thread title is a general question, I respond with general observations. I have, however, addressed specifics - specifically including your inaccurate claims
Including my "inaccurate" claim of baby making young mothers. Remember now, I knew of such a person ... so I speak from experience.
Unfortunately, your belief can't change the facts. That being on welfare is a stigma is a fact, no matter how stridently you try to deny it
And I reiterate (yet again) ... it's not just being on welfare that's stigmatized ... but being on it through poor personal choices with an unwillingness to make positive changes ... can be characterized as a stigma.
Perhaps this is because, in regard to social justice and social welfare issues,
attacks do tend to come from the ignorant, while the well-informed do tend to support those causes
Or perhaps the attack comes from those are well-informed of the abusers and will speak out against them ... while the ones who support social causes do so out of misguided compassion. Misguided in the sense that they see abusers as being an unfortunate part of the system ... refusing to acknowledge it as a problem.
how is it a false accusation when a young mom repeatedly get pregnant ... knowing that each new baby cost more money ... expecting a bigger check for their efforts Nobody has said that this is a false accusation. Using this one example to condemn others in the system, or to attack the system as a whole, however, is definitely a false accusation - as is taking my statement out of context, as you've done here. The false accusation I spoke of is the assumption that all or a majority of welfare recipients are scamming, and I made that clear
The example I posted isn't the only example. It was just one. If you've read my other posts you'll see other examples. And the truth is: I condemn the welfare cheats ... not the legistimate need individuals. Plus I (and other posters) have never said all or a majority of welfare recipients are scammers ... only that the problem is large enough to warrant cracking down on the cheats who have no intention of giving up their little gold mine of free cash ... looking for new and improved ways to abuse the system.
I have no interest in what I, you, or anybody else "wishes" to believe, only in
objective evidence. That is impartiality, which is a quality yet to be seen in anything
you've posted
Yes, your impartiality treats everyone (the legitimate welfare people and the abusers) equal. Thanks for validating their repugnant behavior of getting something for nothing. I make no apologies for coming down hard on the abusers.
When people's sorry situations are the direct result of their own poor choices Yes.... to blame the impoverished for their poverty is much easier than doing anything constructive to help, isn't it? Poor-bashing is much easier - and cheaper - than showing any sign or conscience or social responsibility
In industrialized nations like Canada and the US, there is no poverty. We are not some Third World country with little or no opportunities. Here, everyone has every chance to make a decent life for themselves ... including those whom you designated as "impoverished". We get free education up to grade 12, government assistance for college or university ... a chance at a good career. If, however, people decide to quit school, make babies and experiment with drugs and other vices, then they have squandered those opportunities that were available to them. If they end up poor ... it's their own damn fault. And to make things worse, the children born to "poor" parents will (most likely) end up following in their parent's footsteps.
I have said this in a previous post: a person must be responsible for themselves before seeking someone else to be responsible for them through welfare payments.
Sadly, the majority of people are taking the easy way out on this issue, and always have
You're right on this one: welfare cheats do take the easy way out. Free money ... how much easier can it be??
This is where the stigma comes from...where the ignorance lies. There are far more people choosing ignorance on this issue than there are poor people scamming the system. Maybe we should start sterilizing those who choose to ignore their social responsibilities if we're going to keep leaning on the poor like this thread has
As I've said in an earlier post: we have no social responsibilty to those who don't take responsibility for themselves to begin with ... and that's not ignorance. We see very clearly their reprehensible attitude.
Pad....
Regarding your post #477....well...it's BS
FYI..I am not confused..I am informed and concerned about how my nieghbours live.
As far as I am concerned...you Pad..are a follower..because as a leader you can't perpetuate a social stigma that already has existed for 50 years....but as a follower it is easier to refuse and recognize that this problem has existed for so long.
I hear you talkin the talk Pad....but I don't see you walkin the walk
I do recognized that welfare abuse have existed for a long time. The stigma of welfare is perpetrated by the abusers. They don't need me for that. And I do walk the walk ... I'm all about stamping out the lowlife cheats of the system. lizbeth ... how is my post477 BS??? Care to elaborate??
Hey pad why the hateful attitude? Are you angry because you need it?
Redneck ... I'm not angry because I need the system. I'm angry at those who cheat the system ... looking at new ways for a handout. If you had read my posts, you know that I've never been on welfare in the last 29 years of living on my own.
Your circumstances in post486 were beyond your control as you have illustrated it. If you needed temporary support from social services to get back on your feet, then I'm sure many of the posters on here (who are against the cheats) would not fault you ... as long as you took the necessary steps to improve your situation and leave welfare behind.
Those individuals who downplay the seriousness of welfare abuse are (most likely) the very ones who have made poor choices in their own lives ... requiring social intervention to bail them out. Having their inadequacies thrusted into the spotlight makes them uncomfortable and they go into a state of denial ... making feeble attempts to defend everyone on welfare, whether they're deserving or not. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/7/2008 2:02:22 PM | Sorry pad I think I made and a$$ of myself. You know people spit on me when I left there. I even got in a fight when I went to donate! Well they fought and I just took it as the 2 b****s weren't very big but it still makes me mad today remembering that.
I do understand the stigma as my uncle ( a stupid alcoholic) made a good living off the system. We need to hold the recievers accountable. Give them a card and pay for each pound of trash they pick up or something. I am absolutely for MANDATOY sterilization of BOTH parties regarding multiple pregnancies. Birth control information and devices are both available for free. No reason to make a herd when you can't even afford 1. And for the bible thumpers God wanted us to fill the earth but NOT drown it.
Shoot! I've got to learn to be more diplomatic! No not all alcoholics are stupid but my uncle sure was.
By bible thumper I mean those who misquote the bible looking only to feed their own pride and self righteousness. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/9/2008 1:35:20 AM | In industrialized nations like Canada and the US, there is no poverty.pad
^^^
Don't know what cloud your living on Padawanbe..you might want to make a point of looking at the people you step over when you are downtown for a nite out...povery is a fact in Canada...and one we should all be ashamed of................
If, however, people decide to quit school, make babies and experiment with drugs and other vices, then they have squandered those opportunities that were available to them. If they end up poor ... it's their own damn fault. And to make things worse, the children born to "poor" parents will (most likely) end up following in their parent's footsteps.pad
^^^^This padawan....is where you fall short. If you can acknowledge the cycle of abuse that is inheritated...than it is barbaric of you to deny help to people who need the help to climb out of the system...I will never understand what people, such as yourself, gain from perpetuating a stigma that steals the hope and motivations from another human being who needs some help and positive guidance.
And I do walk the walk ... I'm all about stamping out the lowlife cheats of the system.
^^^Padawan, your more interested in stamping out everyone who needs any social assistance...rather than helping and contributing real soloutions to those you have "deemed" worthy to recieve it. You can't expect your opinion to be anything other than one that is self absorbed, when all your comments center around blaming everyone else except you...it's very covienient to lay the blame on others, without taking some responsibility for your own surroundings.
The thread was about "why judge people on welfare"......perhaps a few people didn't read the big W in that question.....WHY.... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:09:20 AM |
85% of children born to mothers w/out private health insurance test positive for cocaine out of the womb
Would you mind backing that statement up? I find that really, really hard to beleive. Just isn't even a logical idea.
OP: I don't judge people on welfare as a whole. I understand that some people do need it. Recently we went through a huge upheaval financially....I had to stop working b/c I was a high risk pregnancy and then my daughter was born 3 months earlier. And those that say 'prepare for kids before you have them'...do you mind telling me EXACTLY how you can prepare for that? My point is...my daughters healthcare ran into the MILLIONS. So, what? Everyone needs to have 2-3 Mil in the bank before they are allowed to have children?
So with that and then having to use up most of our savings to drive back and forth to the hospital every day...times got rough. Then Welder's ex hit him for $600/m0 child support. Yes, he needs to take care of his children, but no one has taken into consideration the extra costs of care for our daughter that has special needs. After are bills are paid we have $13/mo to buy groceries, diapers, and gas. Not very easy to stretch that $13. LUCKILY I've been able to do little things to earn some extra money (proofreading thesis, e-baying, etc). Not much..but enough so that we can survive.
I went and applied for gov't assitance and was turned down even tho we are way below their financial guidelines. Now, I'm not one of those that planned on staying on it for 15+ years...I'm talking about 3-4 months while I finish courses and can get a decent job.
So....yeah...that makes me lazy, unintelligent, whatnot and whathaveyou....nah...it means that not everyones situation is the same. It means that people shouldn't have to choose between buying groceries or diapers. But some people do have to make those choices and if it is a situation that you cannot prepare for then I don't see the problem giving them a little help.
Now, I do know of people that lie, etc. inorder to get welfare. One of my mom's co-workers has 3 kids by 3 different men. She does work full time...she gets SSI on one child since her dad died and child support on the other 2 kids. She also has a live in boyfriend. She doesn't claim the SSI (b/c I don't think they have to)...but she doesn't claim the C.S (supposed to) and she denies that there is another adult living in the residence that provides income. She gets, in all benefits, about $3000/mo+. Plus CS and SSI, + wages from a full time job. She's making a frickin' mint!!!
So...I just try to 'judge' people on their own individual situations.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:41:35 AM | People judge each other for all kinds of reasons. It's human nature.
Judging someone for being on welfare is just another in a long list of things we are probably going to pass judgments about in silence but say nice things in public.
I don't have a problem with lending a helping hand to people trying to get back on their feet. That's ok.
I do have a problem with people living off the system for pretty much no reason at all. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/9/2008 1:44:52 PM | In industrialized nations like Canada and the US, there is no poverty .pad ^^^ Don't know what cloud your living on Padawanbe..you might want to make a point of looking at the people you step over when you are downtown for a nite out...povery is a fact in Canada...and one we should all be ashamed of
I live on the cloud of reality, lizbeth, not the cloud of drug-induced hallucination you seem to be on. If you had carefully read my post (but didn't ... and still chose to quote it below), you might have understood what I meant ... that people in our countries brought poverty upon themselves ... unlike people in Third World countries where there are little or no opportunities available to them. Which part of that can't you comprehend?? Yes, when I am downtown on a night out, I step over those idiots who are either drunk or stoned out of their minds ... passed out on the streets. Hmmmm?? I wonder who screwed their lives up?? ... not society. 
If, however, people decide to quit school, make babies and experiment with drugs and other vices, then they have squandered those opportunities that were available to them. If they end up poor ... it's their own damn fault. And to make things worse, the children born to "poor" parents will (most likely) end up following in their parent's footsteps .pad ^^^^This padawan....is where you fall short. If you can acknowledge the cycle of abuse that is inheritated...than it is barbaric of you to deny help to people who need the help to climb out of the system...I will never understand what people, such as yourself, gain from perpetuating a stigma that steals the hope and motivations from another human being who needs some help and positive guidance
No ... this is where you fall short. Children born to "poor" parents will, in all likelihood, inherit their attitudes as well ... attitudes of no motivation, no desire to better themselves, quit school, make babies and do drugs. You cannot help those who will not help themselves.
And I do walk the walk ... I'm all about stamping out the lowlife cheats of the system ^^^Padawan, your more interested in stamping out everyone who needs any social assistance...rather than helping and contributing real soloutions to those you have "deemed" worthy to recieve it
Did you read what I said or do you have some sort of mental block?? I said I am all about stamping out the cheaters. Stay with me on this one ... I know it's tough for you.
You can't expect your opinion to be anything other than one that is self absorbed, when all your comments center around blaming everyone else except you...it's very covienient to lay the blame on others, without taking some responsibility for your own surroundings
Really?? And I blamed EruditeRedneck for the unfortunate circumstances that befell him?? You may want to re-read my post.
lizbeth, you seem to only interpret what your want to believe based on your twisted ideas of social entitlement.
The thread was about "why judge people on welfare"......perhaps a few people didn't read the big W in that question.....WHY....
The WHYS have been answered ... quite clearly. You just choose not to acknowledge what other posters have said.
My point is...my daughters healthcare ran into the MILLIONS
If this was true ... that your daughter's health care ran into millions, I do not think being on welfare would be much help to you since they probably would not write you a check for millions.
I went and applied for gov't assitance and was turned down even tho we are way below their financial guidelines. Now, I'm not one of those that planned on staying on it for 15+ years...I'm talking about 3-4 months while I finish courses and can get a decent job.
So....yeah...that makes me lazy, unintelligent, whatnot and whathaveyou
If you had read through the thread, you'll find that no one said you would be categoried as lazy, unintelligent, etc. as long as you are willing to do what it takes to get ahead in life and not rely on social assistance forever. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:46:37 PM |
It means that people shouldn't have to choose between buying groceries or diapers. But some people do have to make those choices and if it is a situation that you cannot prepare for then I don't see the problem giving them a little help.
This was already mentioned and people like to say it as if it was a profound statement of need. This thread has gone round and round and choices or bad choices have already been mentioned. If you are in a bad financial situation DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN! I'm all for you doing what you want and messing up your life but don't mess up any kids lives. I may have already mentioned I knew a girl that had a baby and DID NOT BELIEVE IN WELFARE, I thought she could use some diapers so I bought her some. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:08:56 PM | Here I am again . The cheater DO make it rought for those who have had some bad luck. Yes I DID make some stupid choices and became poor. I was brough up to have "faith that God would take care of me". I foolishly spent too much of my life not choosing my own way. Now I very firmly believe God helps those who help themselves. Believe me the chains put on our minds while innocent are the hardest steel there is.
There are REAL impediments to leaving welfare. Just try to apply for a job if you have no car. Strike one! Try to apply for a job if you have been unemployed for more than a year. Strike two!! Try to apply for a job that will pay your rent/mortgage, buy a vehicle, pay utilities, dare you hope buy groceries, and have reasonable benefits. Strike three!!! You're outa there!
We are the (in our opinion) best the world has ever seen! Why can't we MAKE our representatives face this issue. No one should ever go hungry, have no place to sleep, or give up their health for lack of money. I truly believe there is a planned effort to keep us citizens fighting among ourselves so the aristocrats in our respective countries can live high on the hog. So long as the middle class fights the poor lower class the upper class get richer and richer. I think the resentment of the disgusting greed of the rich and powerful causes us to be angry but we foolishly attack those who are "handy" to holler at. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:46:45 PM |
If this was true ... that your daughter's health care ran into millions, I do not think being on welfare would be much help to you since they probably would not write you a check for millions.
Not that it is really any of your business...but for ONE day's stay at the hospital it was $21,745. She was there for 75 days. You do the math. And that figure does not even include the various specialists that had to handle her.
And I for one do not have the time to read through 20 pages of threads. I saw plenty when skimming through, of people saying that they are lazy, uneducated, etc.
The WHY is that people are ignorant. Plain and simple.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:35:17 AM | I meant ... that people in our countries brought poverty upon themselves ...
....Children born to "poor" parents will, in all likelihood, inherit their attitudes as well ... attitudes of no motivation, no desire to better themselves, quit school, make babies and do drugs. You cannot help those who will not help themselves.
>>>padwan qoute
^^excellent observation Padawan...before you continue though..please give me a valid arguement of why the people born into poverty by no fault of their own should be condemned to a life sentance of poverty through circumstance?
Your judgement only perpetuates a stigma towards poor people and does nothing to address a soloution.
Your comments and opinions are conflicting...depending on who you are responding too in this thread. I find it ironic that you are able to condemn the majority and make a personal exception and comment to a few who have been brave enough to post their situations on this thread.
Your presumtious attitude says volumes....although..it does entertain me late at nite...
BTW....just got my taxes back....thanx for the contribution....I promise...I won't spend it all in one place! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:14:40 AM |
povery(sic) is a fact in Canada...and one we should all be ashamed of................ Poverty in Canada is a choice. Canada has innumerable agencies and resources to help others become self-sufficient. People make a conscious decision to not use those resources and the only ones to blame for this are themselves. Everything begins at free education to high school – and there are even adult learning centers in every community to assist those who have made a poor choice earlier rectify it…
Subsidized and provincial housing are meant to be temporary, though people live generations in the same place, bemoaning the squalor that they don’t even bother to assist in cleaning or maintaining the grounds of…
Food banks, respite centers and a host of other agencies and centers also ensure that true poverty is not a part of our culture.
Agencies are set up to train and retrain people who want to learn a skill; career centers are available to explore options.
So many people equate poverty with having less than someone else; this is a fallacy propagated by those who want a handout rather than a hand-up.
Then again, it is so much easier to blame people such as myself for your individual situation… 
The thread was about "why judge people on welfare"......perhaps a few people didn't read the big W in that question.....WHY.... Because the system is rampant with abuse. Have you not been paying attention LezBeth?
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:08:06 AM | As a college educator, I have seen so many females going to school to increase their earning power; especially those women who have had children without any financial assistance from the children's father(s). In many situations, the fathers of these children do not pay child support; even though in many cases this support is court-ordered. It seems the court system and social service agencies are overwhelmed and can't keep up with the cases. They cannot allow the children to go unfed and unclothed; however, I don't think that the courts do enough to force the fathers of these children to also bear responsibility for these children they created. Frequently, the fathers walk away from their current responsibilities only to create more babies for whom they will not provide care.
As a society we have also come to accept the fact that males and females will create new life with no means to care for them for our hands are tied interms of how our tax dollars are spent. I have heard many female students refer to their "babies fathers" (yes, that means that they have several babies, all with different fathers). The financial responsibility to care for these children continues to fall on the workers who do contribute through payroll taxes and the cycle just continues.
Personally, I think that both Mothers and Fathers should be held equally accountable for the care of their children. If they do not do this, their paychecks should be docked in the amount of reasonable child support. If they refuse to work, the states should have a right to force them to work in the area of public works and a portion of their paychecks should be withheld for the care of their child(ren).
Personally, I am tired of handing my potential "retirement savings" over to people who lack the morals and knowledge to manage their reproductive life. | |
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