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koko60
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Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 501 | |
| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:20:28 AM | | Did you ever stand in line at a grocery store with generic foods and the person who is checking out ahead of you is paying with food stamps. They have expensive steaks and other things that you cant afford. People having parties paying with food stamps. Well I have! It makes me sick to my stomach. My son is a disabled veteran. My family has never been on welfare. Right now I have been trying to get help, He needs a bedroom with a bath built on downstairs. He also needs some repairs done on the house. We are buying this house together because I am afraid he won't have anywhere to go when I pass away. I have contacted state and federal government. They say we make too much money. They say that together we are over the limit. How much is {over } when when your Just above the poverty level. Why are the bingo halls completely full on the first of the month? NO I don't play bingo. That's why l dislike welfare. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:11:11 PM | ^^^Yes..I've stood in line many times with people paying for their 4" steaks with food stamps while I'm having to budget out my money for a week's worth of food for myself and my pets.
Again, I am not against the welfare system and I've had to say it over and over and over again in this thread. I'm not only tired of saying it but I have to work for a living 40 hours a week. God, I'm tired. I'm tired of driving to work an hour each way to work in order to feed my cats and myself. I'm tired of paying taxes for people that seem to "have it made" with welfare yet continue to post on here trying to defend their position of "why they need welfare" when they smoke pot daily..who pays for that?? yeah..we do.
Yes..I am tired..I try and try and friggin' try to make ends meet daily without calling on outside assistance to help me.
How can any0ne have respect for themselves if they're depending on outside assistance to coast them through life (if they're able to work) without them making a conscious effort to better themselves??
I support the welfare system. I don't support the posters that come on here "defending their situation with a vengeance and defiance" when it's obvious these same people are able-bodied, have an internet connection..yet go after people like me, Pad, Psst..and other's that are actually on their side, yet are against us when it comes to doling out free money for their lifestyle to continue as it is with my tax dollars.
The only people that try to defend welfare with a vengeance are the same people that are abusing it and making lame excuses as to why they need it.
You want to smoke pot?? Fine!! I'm not paying for it if you're on welfare!
You want to pop out five more kids in order to get more money for yourself? Fine!! I ain't paying for that either!! Pop em' out..I don't care if you do, but don' t come crying to me when they turn out to be juvenile deliquents and on welfare themselves because you didn't have the education to guide them to be responsible adults and not to rely on "welfare" for their existence simply because you weren't mom enough to guide them into a healthy adulthood. I'm mom enough to my 4 cats that they would get a job in a New York minute if they thought I needed the extra money to support them..and I don't even HAVE kids!!
I have said my say with this thread. I am not..I repeat..not without having compassion with welfare recipients that truly need the help.
If you truly need the help, then I'll give you the shirt off my back for as long as anyone need's it, but people like me can read between the lines of someone that "takes from the welfare system" with lame excuses of why they should be entitled to the benefits..lezbeth
Darlin' (lisbeth)...you don't have to convince us of why you need welfare benefits anymore. I know you're weak, needy, and need a man to support you financially..my god, honey!!! You're on welfare for god's sake!!!...yes..it's obvious..my heart goes out to you lizbeth...I hope your incoming e-mails are abundant with men that will take care of you now..oh my goodness!! I really mean that...
Sans..and do have a nice day!!! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:15:50 PM | I don't know what the welfare rates are in the states, but here in Ontario, Canada, if anyone is buying 4" thick steaks, they have another source of income and if they aren't reporting it, that is fraud.
BTW, why do people pay so much attention to what is in the grocery carts of other shoppers and how they pay for it? When I'm shopping, I have no interest in scrutinizing the carts of others, I'm busy enough with getting my own groceries. Maybe it's a cultural thing, something that's done more in the states than up here? I've heard stories of people approaching fat people in stores criticizing what's in their carts and that just boggles my mind. I'm a fat chick and that's never happened to me.
Sans, I know you are being sarcastic about someone needing a man to support them, but I seem to recall a few years ago, Bush suggesting paying financial incentives to women on welfare to encourage them to get married!
I very much agree that something needs to be done about those who pop out kid after kid after kid while on welfare. I'm not sure exactly what the answer is, but I think not giving people more money for having kids conceived after the initial application is a step in the right direction. Perhaps remove any subsequent children born into the home and place them in foster care until the parent(s) become self supporting? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:53:04 AM | Not that it is really any of your business...but for ONE day's stay at the hospital it was $21,745. She was there for 75 days. You do the math. And that figure does not even include the various specialists that had to handle her
I don't need to do any math on this one.  I'm not seeing the correlation between your daughter's medical expenses and the fact that there are welfare cheaters. Special medical need isn't a function of welfare, rather it's falls under state health care or private medical insurance.
And I for one do not have the time to read through 20 pages of threads. I saw plenty when skimming through, of people saying that they are lazy, uneducated, etc.
The WHY is that people are ignorant. Plain and simple
Without reading through the various posts, perhaps you're the one who is ignorant of what has been said.
before you continue though..please give me a valid arguement of why the people born into poverty by no fault of their own should be condemned to a life sentance of poverty through circumstance?
If you had carefully read my post (but didn't again), you'll note that I said: "You can't help those who won't help themselves." Given the fact that children born to "poor" parents may have adopted their poor attitude as well, they may not want to help themselves. However, if they're willing to put forth the effort to improve, then they would be put on a timeline to better themselves. That would mean: while getting public assistance for self-improvement, they are not allow to do anything that would hinder their efforts. That would include (but not limited to) making babies of their own.
Your comments and opinions are conflicting...depending on who you are responding too in this thread. I find it ironic that you are able to condemn the majority and make a personal exception and comment to a few who have been brave enough to post their situations on this thread
Conflicting to your limited intellect, perhaps. I did say many posts earlier that I judge people's circumstances on a case-by-case basis. Did you happen to have missed that too?? 
Your presumtious attitude says volumes....although..it does entertain me late at nite... BTW....just got my taxes back....thanx for the contribution....I promise...I won't spend it all in one place!
And your limited comprehension speaks volumes of you and it gives me many a haha, thank you. You may want to consider buying better quality weed with that tax refund. If it was a tax refund, I didn't contribute to it. It was your own interest free loan to the government for the past year. The fact you didn't know doesn't surprise me.  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/12/2008 2:46:42 AM | If you truly need the help, then I'll give you the shirt off my back for as long as anyone need's it, but people like me can read between the lines of someone that "takes from the welfare system" with lame excuses of why they should be entitled to the benefits..lezbeth
Darlin' (lisbeth)...you don't have to convince us of why you need welfare benefits anymore. I know you're weak, needy, and need a man to support you financially..my god, honey!!! You're on welfare for god's sake!!!...yes..it's obvious..my heart goes out to you lizbeth...I hope your incoming e-mails are abundant with men that will take care of you now..oh my goodness!! I really mean that...
^^^Darlin Sans..please tell me, exactly what I have said that has convinced you I am relying on the social system? Why is it you believe, that the sole reason for me disagreeing with your (or any of your and forum "friends") opinions is because I am on the system...and playing the system to my advantage? Perhaps by judging me as a person who relies on the system, gives you more credibility with your arguements and justifies the judgements and assumptions you can all so easily make about people in general.
I will tell you what I think darlin...your comments (and your not alone) on this thread are one's that stem from predjiduce instead of experience.
People like...pad...psst...and yourself... Probably find it alot easier to tow the line and assume the old, stale and stigmatized opinions from the older generation about people needing any kind of help from the social system.
It is so much easier to make the assumptions than ask the question of "WHY" someone needs help....and it is even harder and requires more effort to ask the question of "HOW" to help a person, family or child that is relying on the system.
I find it ironic that people can only be passionate about this sort of topic because they "feel" they are being cheated and stolen from. I find it even more ironic that there are a few posters that know people who have abused the system and condem their actions...yet fall short of reporting these people.
There is no arguement, when it comes to people abusing and draining the resources that are better used for the people who need them.
The questions I have is ..."WHY" does a person need assistance....and "HOW" can I (we) help them get back up on their feet?.......one thing I know for sure...it is impossible to get some people off the system when they feel they have been judged and sentenced to a life of poverty. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:01:30 AM |
one thing I know for sure...it is impossible to get some people off the system when they feel they have been judged and sentenced to a life of poverty
Sentenced to a life of poverty? It is only a "life sentence" if a person makes the decision to not change their circumstances. If one chooses to live off the system and not improve their life, then they, themselves, have sentenced themselves to a "life of poverty".
People on welfare are given the tools to change their situation (i.e. college assistance, day care assistance, job traininig, etc). If they make a conscious decision to NOT use the tools provided to better their lives, then they are perfectly content living off of the system and raising their children to live off the system.
Our children are our future and they will live their lives as their parents have taught them. If the parents teach the child to stay home and collect free money, that is what they will do. If the parents have ambition, drive and a desire to change their life, so will the children.
~tb~ | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:36:45 AM | I don't need to do any math on this one. I'm not seeing the correlation between your daughter's medical expenses and the fact that there are welfare cheaters. Special medical need isn't a function of welfare, rather it's falls under state health care or private medical insurance.
I'm not saying there is an correlation between the two. I'm saying that the system is set up to only help certain people...and unfortunately a lot of those people cheat the system. They lie about income, they lie about this and that...I COULD have gotten assitance if I would have claimed that Welder did not live in our household. Would have been EASY to do and really, who would have ever known the difference? But, see, I'm honest about my dealings.
You want to know why I was denied state/federal healthcare assitance? Because it was an OPTION for me to keep my daughter on CPAP, which helped her breathe. If she wouldn't have been on it, she would have died. So basically it was a situation of....well, she doesn't HAVE to live and by me not signing a DNR order it was like they concluded that I didn't need any help. WHAT? Yeah...to me, that is pretty ass backwards.
But hey...the 5 kids down the road are on various forms of welfare...and guess what? Daddy makes a hell of a lot more than Welder, Mommy lies on her application and claims that daddy isn't around, they sell various sorts of drugs, so on and so forth. Yes, the cheat the system and it disgusts me.
Welder's ex lied on her child support stuff...thus she gets almost 3/4 of what she SHOULD by the state guidelines. And you know...she had the audacity to call and say 'If you ever need anything for your baby, let me know and I'll help you out?' My response was 'How about you go down and tell them you lied that way they adjust the child support to the proper amount?'
It seems to me that people, including the government, help out when it is convenient for them. And to those that cheat the system...well, the system allows them to do it. To the ones who are honest, they get denied and even then if they admit that they tried to get help they are usually labeled with the rest of them. And that, my friend, is where the ignorance comes in.
~Welder's Girl~
EDIT: And the other reason I was turned down was because they have a computer system that can pull up your assets (homes, cars, etc.). WELL....they came up with 2 cars that they say are 'mine'. The first one was STOLEN 6 years ago and never recovered and the other one was sold 2 years ago. I even sent the lady the paperwork PROVING both situations. And she called and said "Ms.________, since it shows up in the computer that they are both still legally yours, I suggest selling them to help you get the money you need". WTF? How can I sell two vehicles that I don't even have??? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:28:31 PM | hey now I have an idea!!!
How about we get rid of this ridiculous class system altogether??? Let's pay everyone...EVERYONE a fair wage and leave it at that.
Why is it that people really think that someone who welds all day deserves more money than the nice lady who serves my steeped tea at Timmy's at lunch??? Anyone here ever worked customer service before??? It's definitely a profession that is worthy of respect...aside from the skills you need to learn (cash handling...other day to day stuff)...the fact is that to excel in customer service, it takes a certain aptitude.
It's no different than anything else. Some people naturally enjoy dealing with people and helping or serving them. Some people can play almost any instrument and some people rock at catching a ball.
The bottom line is that I get really disgusted when people start talking about welfare recipients like chattle...talking about limits on their movement...activities etc. We have no right to this implied ownership...even if they are receiving government money. We just don't. Criminals and welfare recipients do NOT belong on the same level...if in fact we need levels at all. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:23:24 PM | ^^^Dude..what the hell are you talking about? I sought out 4 years of higher education after high school (at my expense) to better myself for the future. Don't tell me about being a waitress and dealing in "Customer service", okay? I was a waitress for many years until I finished my education.
I wanted more for myself and made the choice to make a good living for myself and my pets. I was very poor growing up, but I was able to detach myself from what my parents were, and vowed to make a conscious decision to break out of the "mold" of having to rely on public assistance for my survival.
I now live on an island with water the color of the Mediterranian sea, work for a wealthy man that pays me well, and am very well educated due to my own resources and mine alone.
It doesn't get any better than that, but I'm humble and grateful for what I have but know this. I've worked my a$$ off to get where I am today.
Don't give me that crap about everyone making the same wage. I went to school for 4 years, paid for it, sweated out the exams, had to stay up till 4 in the morning studying and had to report to work at 6 am..there is no way you should make the same wage as I do without earning it.
And trust me, I've earned it hands down, dude!!!
I'm actually seeking out 8 more years of higher education in order to become a marine biologist and not relying on public assistance in order to get me there. I'll be 58 when I graduate but hey..at least I'll graduate with the knowledge that I never had to lay back and collect a check from welfare.
And do have a nice day!!
Sans | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:18:25 PM | BTW....just got my taxes back....thanx for the contribution....I promise...I won't spend it all in one place!
omg..
 ..lizbeth..you're just too stupid to respond to with that statement if that's where you think your tax refund came from..omg...lmao!!! Darlin'..I suggest you educate yourself on filling out a "W4" if you've ever been gainfully employed. Then you may or may not have a tax refund coming to you in the future depending on how many exemptions you've taken on your last tax returns..omg..too funny!! Pad had nothing to do with it..omg...LMAO!!!
Sans | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:37:46 AM | People on welfare are given the tools to change their situation (i.e. college assistance, day care assistance, job traininig, etc). If they make a conscious decision to NOT use the tools provided to better their lives, then they are perfectly content living off of the system and raising their children to live off the system. ~tb~
^^^I will agree with most of that statement....with the exception of the comment about anyone being content with living in poverty. I can tell you for a fact that nobody on welfare is just "given" the tools to better their lives. The programs your talking about aren't as readily available as you may think. The ignorance from some posters in this thread regarding all the people who need or recieve some kind of social assistance from the government.. is quite frankly... appalling.
Our children are our future and they will live their lives as their parents have taught them. If the parents teach the child to stay home and collect free money, that is what they will do. If the parents have ambition, drive and a desire to change their life, so will the children. ~tb~
^^^I agree with you tb...lemme ask you though..How does a child, who was taught to abuse the social system by their parents make a conscious choice to be poor?
Imagine being a person who is literally trying to climb out of a big ditch with people who are at the top of that ditch....just waiting to step on their fingers.
Ambition requires confidence.
Learning how to be driven requires a lesson.
Having the desire to change things requires having hope things will change.
Perhaps there are some of us who need to make a conscious choice to treat others the same way we expect to be treated....wtf?? where is everyone's moral compass these days?
*Sans....stop trying so hard to mock me....it is making you look.. ...ahh never mind!....BTW....I read your last post...How many sentences did you start off with "I" ?
Honestly, I think what you have acheived on your own is amazing...but your lack of compassion for anyone other than yourself really tarnishes your accomplishments and makes you sound very bitter. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/14/2008 2:41:21 AM | please tell me, exactly what I have said that has convinced you I am relying on the social system?
Oh I don't know ... maybe it's the constant gibberish that you speak ... making vague and nebulous posts of how everyone on welfare is deserving.
your comments (and your not alone) on this thread are one's that stem from predjiduce instead of experience
Yes lizbeth, I can tell you have much experience in playing the system based on the way you phrase your posts.
It is so much easier to make the assumptions than ask the question of "WHY" someone needs help ... and it is even harder and requires more effort to ask the question of "HOW" to help a person
Ask why a young single mom with no education and popping out kids by five different dads while having no desire to improve and be different?? You really need to ask WHY?? Please get it through your thick cranium ... we do not want to help a person like that.
I find it ironic that people can only be passionate about this sort of topic because they "feel" they are being cheated and stolen from. I find it even more ironic that there are a few posters that know people who have abused the system and condem their actions...yet fall short of reporting these people
What irony do you see?? Because you assume that people who know someone abusing the system but didn't report them?? Again, how do you know they didn't?? You don't know. It's your own self-affirmation to support your idea of "irony".
There is no arguement, when it comes to people abusing and draining the resources that are better used for the people who need them
WOW!! A momentary glimmer of intelligence ...
but nullified by the following statement ...
The questions I have is ..."WHY" does a person need assistance....and "HOW" can I (we) help them get back up on their feet?
See above for the reason.
BTW lizbeth, you really should learn how to quote. Reading your posts is like pulling teeth.
It seems to me that people, including the government, help out when it is convenient for them. And to those that cheat the system...well, the system allows them to do it. To the ones who are honest, they get denied and even then if they admit that they tried to get help they are usually labeled with the rest of them
No one here is saying that people with legitimate need should be denied help. In fact, there has been no argument against them at all. Government agencies are so full of red tape that those who genuinely need help are made to jump through hoops while those who abuse the system are given every chance to get away with it.
How about we get rid of this ridiculous class system altogether??? Let's pay everyone...EVERYONE a fair wage and leave it at that
Chemical, and how do you define a "fair" wage?? Should an Organ Transplant Specialist be paid a "fair" wage such that the wage doesn't seem unfair to the Wal-Mart worker??
Why is it that people really think that someone who welds all day deserves more money than the nice lady who serves my steeped tea at Timmy's at lunch??? Anyone here ever worked customer service before??? It's definitely a profession that is worthy of respect...aside from the skills you need to learn (cash handling...other day to day stuff)...the fact is that to excel in customer service, it takes a certain aptitude
The quick answer: you need a Trade Education to become a Welder. However, you don't need any specialized education to be a Timmy's customer service person serving your tea at lunch time.
We have no right to this implied ownership...even if they are receiving government money
Ahh, but we do. If they're receiving government money for which they don't really deserve (i.e. to compensate for their poor choices), then taxpayers do "own" them (as you say).
Criminals and welfare recipients do NOT belong on the same level
No ... but the cheaters are criminals in the strictest sense.
I will agree with most of that statement....with the exception of the comment about anyone being content with living in poverty. I can tell you for a fact that nobody on welfare is just "given" the tools to better their lives. The programs your talking about aren't as readily available as you may think
lizbeth, by that statement ... you've given us the clue we need ... that you are on some kind of public assistance. That ... plus the fact you believe I "contributed" to your "tax refund".
I agree with you tb...lemme ask you though..How does a child, who was taught to abuse the social system by their parents make a conscious choice to be poor?
The child didn't make a conscious choice to be poor, but does that mean taxpayers must allow them to cheat the system??
Ambition requires confidence.
Learning how to be driven requires a lesson.
Having the desire to change things requires having hope things will change
All the things that will never transpire in a home bred on the idea of perpetual handouts.
Perhaps there are some of us who need to make a conscious choice to treat others the same way we expect to be treated....wtf?? where is everyone's moral compass these days?
I've often wondered where the moral compass had disappeared to for the welfare cheaters. Perhaps you can explain that one lizbeth??
*Sans....stop trying so hard to mock me....it is making you look.. ...ahh never mind!....BTW....I read your last post...How many sentences did you start off with "I" ?
Honestly, I think what you have acheived on your own is amazing
"I" implies confidence in oneself and thus equals ambition ... from your own post (above), lizbeth. Are you backpedalling now on your proverbial bike??
but your lack of compassion for anyone other than yourself really tarnishes your accomplishments and makes you sound very bitter
Sans lack of compassion??? Methinks you need to go back several pages of posts and really digest some of her comments ... instead of assimulating the information through osmosis.  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/14/2008 6:59:50 PM | I knew exactly what kind of responses I'd get from my last post and I was right. Some of you need to open your minds a bit. Try imagining the ideal situation as it exists period instead of making it work within what exists right now. You'll find you spend a lot less time saying things like "can't". You may even realize that "can't" is really just another word for "won't'.
Now who's being lazy???
We know as a species that, given the proper oppourtunity and resources, people will naturally gravitate to what interests them and what they are good at. The effort and education people here refer to are the reward when you do what you love. When I practice guitar chords for hours at a time...I'm blissfully happy... I'd like to think it's the same in any area of "expertise". Paying someone 2 to 3 times as much as someone else to do any task while others struggle is just plain ignorance and greed. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:47:05 PM | Ok.. I have read thru a fair bit of the posting on this topic (no I haven't read it all... i don't have 2 days to devote to this topic)... but I wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.
I have been on both sides... I have never accepted welfare... i came close shortly after college, as the only jobs I could find were minimum wage, and my student loans were almost as much I made a month... I looked into getting welfare, and the nice lady on the phone told me... unless i had a slew of kids, I wouldn't make enough to pay my bills & eat each month... So guess what... I got ANOTHER JOB!!!! I worked from 6 am until 11:30pm so that I could pay my bills.
I evenutally found a job that I could work 1 job and support myself, and I continued to better myself from there.
I got married, had a beautiful baby girl, and then my ex husband abused me, so I left with my daughter and $100.
From There... guess what... I've worked 2 sometimes 3 or more jobs to make sure she has always had a roof over her head, food in her belly and clothes on her back.
To one of the original posters... Guess what... the majority of my daughters clothes come from hand me downs or second hand shops... and ya know what??? SHE LOVES THEM. Clothes do not make the child... the Child self worth makes the child. When I buy my daughter new clothes from the store... they sit in the drawer, she continues to wear the previously loved clothes. She also takes great pride in handing those clothes down when she has out grown them.
On the flip side of things... I own a house that I rent out. My tenants are on social assistance... I've given them a break on rent, because i was trying to help them out... ya know what... they've been screwing me over... -- oh let me point out... by me giving them the break on rent... My child can't play sports, or that sort of thing either... but she understands that when Mommy has extra money she can do extra things.. when I don't going to the park, or playing with friends has to be enough... it's ok to tell your child NO sometimes!!!!
I'm not saying that all people on assistance would do that.. but these ones are... am I happy about it? no.. will I do anything about it?? I'll see... they have 3 great kids... and I would hate to see them out on the street... so before you judge someone for not reporting someone scamming the system (considering you were ticked about people judging you for being on welfare to begin with..) think about this... Maybe that person has a heart, and has had tough times themselves...
I remember what it was like not knowing if/when i'd eat my next meal... But I've picked myself out of that situation a few times now... because I have the will to do better for my child.
(sorry this was long... but I wanted to get my point out there!) | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:15:35 PM | Some of you need to open your minds a bit
given the proper oppourtunity and resources, people will naturally gravitate to what interests them and what they are good at
When I practice guitar chords for hours at a time...I'm blissfully happy
Chemical ... "opening your mind" ... letting your mind "become a sieve" or just a "hole in the head"??? You're not making much sense with your idea.
Sure, people should gravitate towards their area of interest and what they're good at. I'm not saying they shouldn't. If you feel customer service is your calling, go for it ... knock yourself out. If playing the guitar is your idea of bliss, who am I to say that you can't??
Just don't expect the same rate of pay as someone who gravitated to building rockets or researching the next medical miracle. I just don't see that a cashier taking my money at the Wal-Mart checkout as having the same value as a neuro-surgeon. But hey, that's just me.
the nice lady on the phone told me... unless i had a slew of kids, I wouldn't make enough to pay my bills & eat each month
And we wonder why people are popping out kids by the litter. The whole welfare system is geared toward rewarding irresponsibility. As long as that mentality remain ... people will always take advantage of it.
I'm not saying that all people on assistance would do that.. but these ones are... am I happy about it? no.. will I do anything about it?? I'll see... they have 3 great kids... and I would hate to see them out on the street
See, there you go ... such abusers are counting on that kind of misguided compassion to shield them from social retribution of their dishonorable way of life.  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/15/2008 3:53:09 AM |
Let's pay everyone...EVERYONE a fair wage and leave it at that. We already do this.
I'm paid fairly and equitably for the services I provide to my employer. If a person who was serving coffee and tea were able to perform the work I do, then they would be in an office environment drafting proposals, business letters, managing internal company systems and earning fair pay for that work.
Hard work, determination and ambition are rewarded accordingly in a work environment. What could be more fair than this?
Criminals and welfare recipients do NOT belong on the same level...if in fact we need levels at all. Welfare recipients who are cheating the system are criminals. Its called fraud.
How do they not belong on the same level?
I've also noticed that the people who want equalization are the ones at the bottom of the ladder... its certainly not the people who are at the top and have paid their dues to attain the status they enjoy that cry foul at a class and social structure.
Cheers... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:06:56 AM |
People on welfare are given the tools to change their situation (i.e. college assistance, day care assistance, job traininig, etc). If they make a conscious decision to NOT use the tools provided to better their lives, then they are perfectly content living off of the system and raising their children to live off the system. ~tb~
^^^I will agree with most of that statement....with the exception of the comment about anyone being content with living in poverty. I can tell you for a fact that nobody on welfare is just "given" the tools to better their lives. The programs your talking about aren't as readily available as you may think. The ignorance from some posters in this thread regarding all the people who need or recieve some kind of social assistance from the government.. is quite frankly... appalling.
Lizabeth – you have got to be kidding right? These programs and assistance are available for free job placement services through the unemployment office, job training programs, resume writing, how to conduct yourself in an interview and even how to dress for an interview. All free through the unemployment office is one just asks. Now since those on welfare had no problem asking for the assistance, they should have no problem asking for help getting a job or job training.
Financial aid for schooling – available if one asks and does the paperwork. If you’re on welfare, it guaranteed money if you want to go to school to improve your situation.
Child care assistance – again, ask and do the paperwork. If you are going to school – ya get it!
I could go on and on, but maybe, just maybe, you get the picture. Then again, maybe you don’t.
Our children are our future and they will live their lives as their parents have taught them. If the parents teach the child to stay home and collect free money, that is what they will do. If the parents have ambition, drive and a desire to change their life, so will the children. ~tb~
^^^I agree with you tb...lemme ask you though..How does a child, who was taught to abuse the social system by their parents make a conscious choice to be poor?
Imagine being a person who is literally trying to climb out of a big ditch with people who are at the top of that ditch....just waiting to step on their fingers.
The children don’t make the choice as children. The parents make that choice for the children. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach your child to better themselves and to have self-respect and pride. As a parent, you want a better life for your child and teach them to make better choices than you did. If this child, upon becoming an adult makes the same poor choices you did, then you failed as a parent. Children are not stupid. People are far more generous than you give them credit for being. Again I say, a hand up, not a hand out People will help those that want to help themselves. Those folks who are content not working and abusing the system will not get sympathy from those of us who work for our money and work to make our lives better.
*Sans....stop trying so hard to mock me....it is making you look.. ...ahh never mind!....BTW....I read your last post...How many sentences did you start off with "I" ?
Honestly, I think what you have acheived on your own is amazing...but your lack of compassion for anyone other than yourself really tarnishes your accomplishments and makes you sound very bitter.
Sans, lacking compassion??? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot????? Sans is one of the most compassionate people on here. You really need to read and comprehend what she has said all along. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:57:46 PM | | Social Security/Disability benefits are given to drug addicts - it's considered a "disease" and a "disability". | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:35:58 PM | People cut other people down to make themselves feel better.
There will ALWAYS be someone on "welfare" - that is how this system works. The so-called Welfare Reform BS the politicians speak of during election years is nothing more than a way to keep the public eye and mind on something other than the lies they keep telling us. By making the general public concentrate on the "welfare moms", the voters fail to realize that big business gets far more in tax credits and corporate welfare than the poor ever can hope to get.
I was on AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children - or "welfare" for a few years and I fought the stupid rules all the time. I also got sanctioned many times because I was fighting...hehe.
Our good buddy Rush Limbaugh once did a study and found that 2/3 of the "welfare dollar" goes to the distribution of the other 1/3. Think about that.
We need to take care of all people in our borders first. And noone should have to raise a kid alone. Until we stop worrying about WHY someone needs help and just learn to help when someone asks - this attitude about the poor will continue.
earthen_magik hops off her soapbox and exits the room.
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:40:32 PM | Social Security/Disability benefits are given to drug addicts - it's considered a "disease" and a "disability"
Right!! Every bloody illness nowadays is considered to be some form of "disease" ... courtesy of the "socially responsible" crowd of "enablers".
Our good buddy Rush Limbaugh once did a study and found that 2/3 of the "welfare dollar" goes to the distribution of the other 1/3. Think about that
Thought about that. Another poster on here defended the jobs that would be lost (the 2/3 distribution services you're speaking of) if redundant social service positions were eliminated. Like Boo"fuking"Hoo!! 
Until we stop worrying about WHY someone needs help and just learn to help when someone asks - this attitude about the poor will continue
Sort of a care-free ... "throw money at the abusers" approach. Thanks for that stupid idea. I thought I had some respect for your post until I read that "two bricks short of a full load" comment. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:08:06 AM | | Because some abuse the system by faking an illness just so they don't have to work when they are perfectly healthy and capable of doing so and some are working and collecting. Such is not fair to those of us who bust out butts daily working and it's not fair to those who are legitimately disabled like my sister (she has cancer and inoperable tumours on her spine, which have paralyzed her amongst other things) and cannot work. It will never change because the government sweeps it under the carpet and does nothing about it. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:01:01 PM | padawan
If social workers have half a brain, they KNOW which ones are the scammers..
I would like to see two separate programs -
One for those who are making an effort to make it off the system
And one for those who everyone knows are just there to milk it to the max...
And this group would have restrictions...
1. Max of two kids...then push sterilization...for both MEN and women. If a guy has 2 kids living on the system...(DNA testing comes in handy now days) he is just as much on the dole as the woman or women he knocks up.
2. NO additional monies or food stamps if there are more than 2 kids produced...life is a ****...they need to learn to be responsible.
So - no - I don't think we should be throwing money at someone who will never get off their butts and work...but I would rather put my tax dollars to work supporting a single mom or dad who is making an effort...than - oh - supporting a war based on lies.
earthen | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:40:53 PM | the original poster asked:
shouldn't one have enough decency to ask why/how there on it??? I'll agree with her, that a person shouldn't be judged by anyone who doesn't know their individual circumstances.
I'll admit that I can be a judgemental prlck. I judge people all the time (I'm aware that it's a character fault of mine)
But, I won't judge people based on very broad generalizations, without knowing their individual circumstances.
Just knowing that a person may be on welfare does not give anyone enough information to pass judgement on that person.
There could be any number of reasons why the person has had to rely on welfare.
-Perhaps the person has suffered from a serious illness, or perhaps a mental illness, that's left them unable to work for an extended period of time?
-Maybe the person has just fled an abussive marriage, has to care for young children, and has few job skills, and no other means of support at the moment?
If I get to know someone, and then determine that they're just worthless and lazy and enjoy leeching of the tax-payers, I'll likely judge them negatively.
But, I won't make such a judgement, without knowing the person's specific circumstances.
Perhaps they've just been unfortunate? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:43:14 PM | I also think that many of us, who have never been on welfare, may also be a little too guilty sometimes of recieving support from others (such as family members) that the person on welfare didn't have the advantage of recieving.
If a person is a well-off doctor or lawyer, because his parents paid every cent of his way through medical school or law school: Does that person have the right to look down on the inner city person who may not have the means to go to univesity?
If a person is a succesfull businesman, because his parents gave, or loaned, him the money to get started in business: is he really a better person than the person who had no family members who were able to give them such support.
Can any of us pass a negative judgment on the person who has a young child with a very serious illness, just because we've been fortunate enough to have never been in that situation ourself? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 5/17/2008 12:32:34 AM | Yes lizbeth, I can tell you have much experience in playing the system based on the way you phrase your posts>>>>posted by padawan 05/14
^^^I will not confirm nor deny that I recieve some kind of social assistance from the government. This is not a stage for personal attacks. You need to learn how to debate the topic Padawan....not the person...
My status is irrelevant really....unless one cannot debate the real topic with out assigning blame to others.
Ask why a young single mom with no education and popping out kids by five different dads while having no desire to improve and be different?? You really need to ask WHY?? Please get it through your thick cranium ... we do not want to help a person like that.>>>>>padawan 05/14
^^^^^^You have not asked any questions of that single Mom...You Padwan have already taken it upon yourself to answer the "WHY" in your assumptions about anyone needing help from the social system. Your extreme examples are indicitive of your inability to be anything other than predjiduce towards people who need a hand up in life.
The child didn't make a conscious choice to be poor, but does that mean taxpayers must allow them to cheat the system??>>>padawan 05/14
^^^That above sentance makes me sick to my stomach. It is always the arrogance in a person that recognizes a problem and searches for blame before finding a soloution to it.
I've often wondered where the moral compass had disappeared to for the welfare cheaters. Perhaps you can explain that one lizbeth??>>>padawan 05/14
^^^ Stupid question padawan...most cheaters have no moral compass....ooppss stupid me...I just realized that was a cleverly disguised dig.. aimed directly towards me...
WOW....do I ever feel silly now!! | |
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