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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/5/2008 6:41:54 PM | The fact is that people that make money and subsidize their existence off of investments does not in any way shape or form mean they are working harder. Rather, they are getting something for nothing off of the backs of others.
and psssst-
I have ensured that I can pay my bills ect too. But I also know that at the end of my days, I want to be judged by what I gave and not on what I have. And money is the cheap and easy part of it. Add some time and effort into being useful instead of greed and resentment. You might just learn something. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/5/2008 7:11:29 PM | Very interesting post.
Having been on “both sides of the desk” ( as we caseworkers like to say ), I am probably the most experienced on this subject.
Back in the early 70’s, as a young single mother of two, I was a Welfare recipient for many years.
Fast forward to the mid 1980’s, and I started to question my future and the future of my then adolescent children. I decided to go back to school, got my high school credits and then went on to college to study social work, all the while, getting student loans and working P/T.
After graduating in 1988, I was hired as a Welfare Caseworker for the city I live in. I have been in that same job ever since.
Many of the arguments on this thread cannot be resolved. The fact of the matter is, that there will always be some “scammers” on the system and some people that are in REAL need.
My city has many, many great training programs, which we pay for as well as GED/ upgrading/ pre-employment development. It’s only those that really want to better themselves that actually take advantage of these.
In conclusion, young single mothers and the disabled, are the most vulnerable and needy. The system is there for them.
~~weeone~~ | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 10:44:50 AM | I judge people on welfare because it is in part because of me they get free money. Giving them my money gives me the ability to cast judgment on them. I'm lazy but if I can get my fat ass out of bed and go to work and occasionally get used and abused and have less time to sit here posting in forums so can they. Few are in true need, most need to get over it. Welfare should be a safety net not a hammock they can lounge in the rest of their worthless lives. I think many people on welfare are people of low intelligence. It would be great if we can take away their children away and break the cycle.
Pop quiz:
If you can't afford children do you make babies?
If you have children you can't afford to raise do you have more?
Score your own answers if you are totally confused you are probably on welfare.
At 18 without higher education or job skills I was able to take care of myself. I joined the military. You do what you gotta do. Part of what Uncle Sam taught me sending me to foreign lands was how GREAT we have it here. Did I say how GREAT the USA is (sorry Canadian friends, no offense, maybe our European friends too except for France) Poor people in other countries don't have cars, air conditioning, cable tv (sometimes no tv at all), electricity, designer clothes, etc. Many of these people are glad and grateful to work very menial difficult jobs to be able to buy food. (Oh yea almost forgot to mention we probably have the fattest poor people in the world and I'm not referring to distended bellies from starvation)
The point is most welfare recipients are just too lazy and as long as they can get fed doing nothing. Wait, the more I think about it who's the dumb one?
It's been a long time but put me in line behind somebody with food stamps in the grocery store and I start making comments out loud. I look at the junk food and other items I can't afford. (I actually can afford them but make conscious decisions to make wise purchases.) If I'm with someone I use them as a sounding board and they get embarrassed but my attempt is to embarrass the food stamp user. We live in a society where political correctness does not allow me to criticize the lazy but I am looked upon poorly instead of the able body moocher of society. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 10:49:11 AM | [I have to be honest, this thread has bothered me a lot. It speaks to a problem much bigger than SS abuse, a problem of bigotry anchored in ignorance, or worse, arrogance.]
this is why i started this thread...after seeing so many different complaints about welfare and the disturbing comment i seen i needed to know the reasons ppl feel this way and whats there excuse for those feelings....it bothers me too seeing all the different views and opinions on this...and now i understand where all the problems are coming from....the abusers make the honest ones look bad...then the ones who don't understand welfare is not a free ride through life....it appears to be but far from it...having total strangers knowing so much personal info about you that you would never tell others...you need docs notes and prof of child birth, medical forms filled out, all kinds of catches to getting what you need...and if you don't follow these catches you will be cut off...obviously in each province/state its different set up for welfare...but i'm sure in other places its not a free ride without at least a few annoying catches that come with it...i'm glad i started this thread cause if gave everyone a chance to express there concerns on this and hopefully cleared up some mis understandings that have been coming up... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 10:54:54 AM | I get the impression that you are wondering because you yourself are in fact a recipient.
Part of the mentality of receiving free money is people lie to get it. You should be able to prove everything and have no privacy until you can take care of yourself and earn the right as a productive member of society.
When I got out of the military my income was zero and my meager salary history put in the welfare eligible category but being honest I said I did have a car (even though I was making payments and technically didn't own it) and had money in the bank. I also had a business license, I think that was the big three, so I guess I was a three time loser. That made me ineligible so damn it I had to find a job. I drove 2 hours to go to work, later went to school also while having a full time job and raising a family damn I must be some super human being or maybe just have some good old fashioned horse sense.
Welfare recipients also should not be able to vote. Luckily most are too lazy to even do that unless some Democrat sends a bus to the projects and tells them the Republicans are trying to take their meal ticket away. It is there god given right after all isn't it? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 11:08:31 AM | ^^^
don't judge me or why i started this...it was stated in the first post...no excuse its wrong to say welfare ppl have no right to medical...just because someone works does not mean they have a privilege over someone who doesn't work to get medical care...it should be based of whats the most serious case instead...this thread has shown a lot of ignorance on the issue and ppl wonder why welfare recipients are so bitter towards the working class....geee open your minds a little bit and try to see the real issue is not where your taxes are going...
everyone has been royally screwed by the government big time no matter how to try to avoid it...so like said before a no win situation...lets just hope things improve some day and the government fixes all the screw ups that they have created...there are so many contradictions in this world when it comes to the government that society needs to wait till the politicians fix it and that will be a while cause there not to swift | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 11:21:18 AM | You asked a question I answered it.
Educate me, do you live in Canada where health insurance is available to all? Where people are over taxed and the system is crumbling and over burdened. Forget all that, do you really believe what you just said?
don't judge me or why i started this...it was stated in the first post...no excuse its wrong to say welfare ppl have no right to medical.
I never said that but now that you mention it.
..just because someone works does not mean they have a privilege over someone who doesn't work to get medical care.
Yes services should be provided free, come over and clean my house.
..it should be based of whats the most serious case instead..
I agree, my place is a mess and needs cleaning badly hurry over and clean it. Yes for free, it is a genuine need. Even though I am able to clean it I refuse. Sound familiar?
.this thread has shown a lot of ignorance on the issue
Yes I agree, probably in the opposite direction from you though.
and ppl wonder why welfare recipients are so bitter towards the working class....geee
Yes I would be mad too at someone working hard so I can get a free ride and then have the audacity to say something to me, the nerve of some people. Just go to work so I can stay at home and have money taken away forcibly and like it dammit and shut up. Geez.. the nerve of some people.
open your minds a little bit and try to see the real issue is not where your taxes are going...
The real issue is where it comes from. From the sweat of my brow. Just out of curiosity do you think welfare money grows on tree's? I used to think that too back when I was shitting in my diapers but learned about life and how to live it. simple really.
1. Wake up
2. Go to work
3. enjoy yourself
4. repeat if necessary
Got to go now. If only I could think of a way to sit at home all day and still be able to live even though I don't deserve to. Any suggestions? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 11:52:04 AM | I have to agree with weeone on one point, and expand on it: if you set up a system to help people in need, it will help people in need, and some other people will figure out how to 'scam' and 'game' it. I knew of one guy who admitted to collecting social assistance in two provinces at once, while working under the table in a third. If you were to ask me, the government should hire him to redesign the welfare system to catch the scammers, and pay him a percentage for every dollar saved.
You would have scammers even if there was no welfare at all and it was all private charity handouts. There are drug-dealers who do the rounds at various food banks rather than buy food for themselves.
Should the scammers be judged? Absolutely.
Should the people who 'need' it be judged? More complicated question, because then you get into a discussion about who is 'deserving' and who is not.
It is easy to see two sides of the coin in many cases. Like the poster who lost her health insurance when she got divorced, and now hides money from the government because otherwise she will lose her benefits, and the private insurers will not take her. You can sympathize with her situation: but she is 'scamming' the system, and she knows it. Hmm, though, she's doing it because the pharmaceutical companies are charging her an outrageous sum for epilepsy drugs, because the government protects their patents by law. Who is scamming whom, exactly?
One can easily understand the anger of people who are working, but themselves see people on benefits/welfare who do not work at all, but enjoy a comparable standard of living. But that is not the government's fault, or the welfare recipient's fault: it's the employer's fault, for paying as little as it can get away with. The anger is misdirected, right?
One can easily understand the anger of someone who is working and paying taxes, can barely afford anything decent for their own children, and perceives a woman on welfare who keeps having children as irresponsible and deserving of criticism and condemnation. Fine, well and good. Did those children get to choose their mother? No. Should they be punished by having welfare withheld? Well, you might say, no they should not (but that is exactly the sort of thing China does with it's one-child-per-family policy.)
Plenty of anger gets vented at welfare recipients because they are easy targets. Fine: let's not hear criticism of welfare recipients from anyone who has ever 'fudged' their taxes, worked 'under the table', or underreported their income to qualify for a student loan.
Hey, there's something to be said for even the most irresponsible high school dropout 'welfare mom' with 5 kids from 5 different guys. If she's living in a cramped apartment in a ghetto neighborhood (wait, we call those places "diverse" these days, because 'low income' is too stigmatizing)-- at least you have some confidence that she's not moonlighting as an identity thief or credit card fraudster, because then she would have better 'digs'. (Courtesy of course, of the credit card companies who do not bother with adequate fraud protection because it is cheaper to just pass the cost on to all the middle-class working people with credit cards who just pay higher rates of interest to cover the fraud losses.)
Let's extend the logic a bit farther. It's pretty obvious that the working poor are the working poor because wages for low-skill jobs stink. The low wages might have something to do with low productivity, because a company basically buys work, when it can sell the results for more than it paid for the work. Fine. Hands up anyone who had never wasted time at work and still been paid an hourly wage for it. Hmm, looks like a lot of hands. Maybe your wages are so low because of the guy smoking next to you, while you're out in the alley behind the restaurant having your third cigarette break in two hours.
There was an article printed in the Montreal Gazette a couple of years ago, in which some muckraking journalists clandestinely followed some city road crew workers around during their work day, only to discover that in an 8 hour shift they did roughly 45 minutes of work. So they get paid in excess of $45-50 ooo a year or more.
Well, I'm a lot angrier at them than I am at the welfare recipients. If I'm going to pay tax dollars to people to have people do nothing, at least I want my "nothing" purchased at as cheap a rate as I can buy it for, and I definitely do not want overqualified people to be doing my nothing for me. And when they called the union spokespeople about this, they had the "brass balls" to blame management. It's galling, until you think about it: the spokespeople were RIGHT. Because We The Taxpayers are paying the City management EVEN MORE to FAIL to ensure that the blue collars were not doing nothing, or next to nothing. That's some pretty pricy nothing we're all paying for. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 12:06:13 PM | well this thread was not meant to cause arguments it was just to get different views and i ask anyone who post on here to be respectful of each person...yes it can be hard but its kinda needed...its not meant for insults but thats what its turning into sadly...i do see the issues on both ends but feel no one should be judged instainly just because there on welfare...a person should find out why/how they ended up on it first to truly know if there abusing it or really need it...its only right...to much judging happening in the world now and its not right or fair it happens...if you want to argue your view then look at it from both views at least before commenting...can't we all get along somehow???
to everyone thanks for sharing your interesting views on the issue | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 12:16:14 PM | And chemistryNkisses, Canada was not founded on socialist ideals. If you actually believe that, your history teachers were pretty seriously overpaid.
And if you were really talking about the present, well, the genius (such as it is) of Canadian 'socialism' is the creation of a vast middle class of government employees to administer education, health, welfare and other social services. People who work in the private sector can look on them with hostility, but they spend their paycheques in good times AND bad, which keeps the private sector employed.
Those services are not 'mired' in bureaucracy. They could not exist without the government bureaucracy. If you think Canadian government bureaucracy works badly, try traveling to most of the other countries on this planet, where the government basically exists to rob the citizenry at every feasible opportunity. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/6/2008 12:41:27 PM | It doesnt bother me the least bit that people get on welfare to help them out for a little while or people who are disabled get it. Its the no good lazy people that get it an stay on it. I think there should be a 1 year limit on it. Drug test should be given to the ones that get it. No such thing as you cant find a job, there are plenty out there. I am a single mother that does not get child support payment on a steady basis an I do not get any food assistance or any welfare. I brought my kid into this world an I do not expect anyone else to take care of her. How about all these old people trying to make it on their fixed income an then all these people that get welfare an then are working for cash so they can keep getting it. EEEWWWW this is SICK
BTW I also think the ones on welfare that keep having kids should have their female organs taken out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:44:55 AM | It's been a long time but put me in line behind somebody with food stamps in the grocery store and I start making comments out loud. I look at the junk food and other items I can't afford. (I actually can afford them but make conscious decisions to make wise purchases.) If I'm with someone I use them as a sounding board and they get embarrassed but my attempt is to embarrass the food stamp user. We live in a society where political correctness does not allow me to criticize the lazy but I am looked upon poorly instead of the able body moocher of society.
Fred, you're wrong, and more than that, you are the epitome of what's wrong with your country. Sheer, unbridled and unfiltered arrogance directed and the easiest of targets. Sounds a lot like US foreign policy to me... But I doubt very much that anything I or anyone else says will get you to actively listen to us, let alone yourself. It's clear to me why the military snapped you up when they did.
And hey, this isn't about the fact that you and I have polar opposite opinions, it's the way in which you share you vast knowledge and wisdom. To put it bluntly, if I were working the register at one of these grocery stores where you bully the poor, I'd have you removed, physically if necessary. I simply can't abide a bully and that's all you are.
Now this person makes some interesting points...
Plenty of anger gets vented at welfare recipients because they are easy targets. Fine: let's not hear criticism of welfare recipients from anyone who has ever 'fudged' their taxes, worked 'under the table', or underreported their income to qualify for a student loan.
The further comment about wasting time at work is perfect. The people who offer the least to this discussion are usually the same ones who spend most of their working day checking facebook or some other time waster. I've seen it in blue collar and white collar workers from the mailroom to the boardroom. It's human nature, yet everyone seems to think they're better than someone else.
The biggest kick in the teeth comes when you realize that so many people get so caught up in their day to day lives...their busywork as I like to call it...that they forget that it means nothing in the end. We have a finite amount of time on this planet...and this is how people choose to spend it??? Pointing out the negative behaviour characteristics in others that they can't or won't see in themselves???
and you know what I and so many others have learned about empowering people???
It works. Simple as that. When people feel like they have a REAL purpose in life, something they enjoy doing and are good at, they tend to be MUCH more productive in life, both at work and elsewhere in their lives. But hey, let's just fling poo at the other monkeys we don't like for some irrational reason we can't explain objectively.
Yay humanity.
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:24:46 AM | Here is one to anger Americans and Vets. Just got a call from my friends and his brother was approved for his "Post Tramatic Stress Disorder" The guy is 30 has never left his mother house, and has had one job at Sonic flipping burgers and did a year with the National Guard. Spent a tour in the desert but has been a lifetime mooch alcoholic drug user food-stamp collector etc.
The VA (Veterans Admin.) has just awarded him $2300 per month and 2 years back pay!! He is thrilled. His liver will die sooner and my father a 2x Vietnam vet will never hear of such a disgrace......SEMPER FI!!!!
PSTD over what?? WWI WWII VIETNAM??? What is wrong with people today? paxil prozac alcohol its always someone else fault!! I am glad there are so many sympathetic people left because I am all out!! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:11:03 PM | you know, i really hate when people bash habitual drug users. yes, he does drugs. but did you ever think that he might be self medicating because he has an illness? whether or not it can be contributed to when he served isn't up to us, but the fact that he has already shown mental disorders by using much alcohol and drugs should show you that he has some kind of mental problems, but all you see is a drug user.
thats part of whats wrong with this country. we look at drug addicts as terrible, disgusting, wastes of life. and then we expect them to just get better one day? they know how everybody looks at they because they've had the same brainwashing as everyone else has. imagine having an illness that you've been taught for so long to disregard and be ashamed of, and THEN try to get help on top of that. i'm not saying that this guy is a great person or anything, but seriously...
society is judged by how it treats its weakest members. its a liberal philosophy, and i'm inclined to not agree with most liberal propaganda, but i do agree with that. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:38:35 PM | I would have to pay $2700 for the medications that are needed to keep me alive and the government says I am not allowed to use the degree I am so proud of. And occasionally my drivers license but I always have car insurance on ALL of my vehicles.
He is paid over $2000 to buy illegal drugs to self medicate rather then get the help the VA has offered but he has continually refused.....court date for his 3rd DWI and driving without a license is next month. Oh he did complain that he will loose his food stamps ....poor guy:(
Nope still no sympathy here!!! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/7/2008 1:59:14 PM |
Fred, you're wrong, and more than that, you are the epitome of what's wrong with your country.
It saddens me to know that I shamed my country, NOT. Thanks for the laugh though, So not trying to make it personal but wanting to know where you're coming from I peruse your profile, of which there is none to speak of, that should tell me something right there. So not only do you attack me but all of a sudden my country too. Attack with words that is, I just had a funny thought of Canadians attacking the US running across the border with their snow shovels riding Mooses'. Okay enough of that, my country counter attack.
You say I'm wrong but you have no strong argument or facts to contradict me other than your opinion. The few facts you try to supply are wrong. Need I say more? Yes, because you did.
Sheer, unbridled and unfiltered arrogance directed and the easiest of targets.
I assume this is the poor defenseless welfare recipient? They are an easy target. To not be a target all you would have to do is get a job and support yourself and I will do what I can to help you.
I know a girl working a temp job with no benefits. We had discussions about taxes and she gets money back without paying any in. That is a form of welfare in my opinion but she is trying. She goes to work everyday and works overtime and some weekends. I found out last week GE here was hiring and told her to apply which she did. I used to work for GE and they do the whole community thing and list jobs with the dept of labor. It's some warehouse job not requiring a lot of skill. If I were to guess how many welfare recipients applied for those jobs I might guess none. Okay maybe 1 or 2.
The moral of the story is welfare is very necessary to help out the poor unfortunates but I think it's mostly abused and the large majority of recipients are unwilling to work when they can get money for free. I hate these lazy leeches but if you're willing to put in some effort I'm willing to help you to help yourself. I refuse to do it for you.
Sounds a lot like US foreign policy to me...
US foreign policy is an embarrassment sometimes to see what we have done but we try. We believe freedom and basic human rights should be practiced by all and although our intentions are good we sometimes mess up. Just like the welfare system we created to help the less fortunate. Good idea and necessary but it got overbloated and abused and is all messed up. I actually knew a girl who had so many damn food stamps she didn't need she would buy steak and other high dollar items just to use them up.
But I doubt very much that anything I or anyone else says will get you to actively listen to us,
I doubt that too because it appears to be more gibber jabber. I try to actively listen but nothing is there.
let alone yourself.
I don't even know what this was supposed to mean.
It's clear to me why the military snapped you up when they did.
This one is funny to me also. HELLO, we have an all volunteer military and as long as you are able bodied without a criminal history they let you sign up. This is where you missed a subtlety in my statement. I will try and type slow so you can follow along as I go into detail. I worked odd jobs but basically had no job skills to get me much past minimum wage. My dad was an evil man he had too many stupid rules. I had to go to school, brush my teeth, bathe before a certain hour, eat mt vegetables, I couldn't fill (his) fridge with beer. Idiotic rules and since I was 18 I knew I was smarter than him and had to leave his evil domain. Thats when I got the bright idea to sign up in the military, they feed, house, clothe you, train you, and give you money. My main motivation to sign up was financial and I often wondered why all these welfare losers didn't do the same. I don't wonder so much any more I came to the conclusion that they make very poor decisions and are unwilling to work hard.
And hey, this isn't about the fact that you and I have polar opposite opinions, it's the way in which you share you vast knowledge and wisdom. To put it bluntly, if I were working the register at one of these grocery stores where you bully the poor,
Now comments are bullying? Again my Canadian friend go to other countries where bullying means they beat the sh1t out of you, or worse.
I'd have you removed, physically if necessary.
Wow, talking about bullying! I use words and you use physical violence. (you guys really make it too easy to reply with logical arguments). Let's continue the fun with this one even though you were probably just trying to make a point as weak as it was. Some customers and the checkout clerk's usually don't like it when I do that too it's the normal human response. I need to be in a certain mood to do it because it could go further than I planned, take your threat for example. If you were the clerk, thats all you would be, a clerk that works there. I shop at chains but it wouldn't matter to you if I ever shopped there again because you have no stake in it. I would get the manager involved and the police if necessary if it went further. I would contact upper management or the Corporate offices. You cannot refuse service if I had a shirt and shoes and didn't break any laws. Trust me when I say you would lose in the long run.
I simply can't abide a bully and that's all you are.
Oh yea, you get physical if necessary with bullies.
About Not-for-you's friend
Oh he did complain that he will loose his food stamps ..
Damn, so I might not get the chance to get behind him in line buying booze (do they let you buy alcohol with food stamps?)
..poor guy:(
Nope still no sympathy here!!!
He did serve his country but the system sound like it needs more fixing. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/7/2008 4:05:15 PM | I have no problem with people on welfare. Those who do, usually are selfish and don't think of everyone as a whole. Yes, you may live in your castle, protected from the criminals, but that's not freedom. Freedom is when everyone is equal and not afraid of each other because of their race, economic status, etc. Then that's when you can get things done.
It's not like you're getting anything for free. You pay your taxes so the government can give back to you and if you refuse to get back because you feel guilty or inferior, then you aren't helping yourself. The USA should be totally revamped so we get more than a useless war through our taxes instead of being too disgusted of government assistance. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/7/2008 5:49:35 PM |
I mean...where did second hand pot smoke come into this??? C'mon... with all the previous posts in this thread screaming violation of Human Rights for drug testing... I'm going to scream that using my tax dollars to purchase illegal items is a violation of my Human Rights.
After all... goose and gander ideology here...
You yourself are only partly responsible for your success, whatever that may be. If this is true, then we must conclude that a person is wholly dependent upon circumstance for everything which happens in life. So I can go into work, do as I please and continue to be paid and promoted regardless of my productivity or level of competence.
Excellent!!! A little R&R with full benefits, pension and pay is just what I'd like... where do I sign up? 
I have ensured that I can pay my bills ect too. But I also know that at the end of my days, I want to be judged by what I gave and not on what I have. And money is the cheap and easy part of it. Add some time and effort into being useful instead of greed and resentment. You might just learn something. Presumptuous aren't you?
Knowing absolutely nothing about me other than I'm opposed to a system which has been misused and abused for so long that it's impossible to clear the stench of stigma from it, and suddenly I'm heartless and greedy... 
Fortunately, your opinion of me matters not at all in the grand scheme of my life and happiness... 
Educate me, do you live in Canada where health insurance is available to all? Actually, in Canada, health care is available to all; prescription drugs, paramedical, eye care and dentistry is not covered under our blanket system. For coverage in those areas, one must work for a company that offers a benefit plan, apply for government assistance, or pay out of pocket for the expenses.
Freedom is when everyone is equal and not afraid of each other because of their race, economic status, etc. Then that's when you can get things done. Agreed... everyone has the freedom to be gainfully employed. Everyone has the freedom to determine their own future. Everyone has the freedom to create a world where they are comfortable; with the obligation to do so by their own steam.
Cheers all... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/8/2008 9:40:12 AM | Instead of just judging all the people on welfare, judge the system itself first.
Judge the abusers ... judge the guys who make over $80,000 a year and shack up with a girl .. allowing her to collect welfare. Judge all the deadbeat fathers... judge a society where a person has to bust their a$$ for $8.00 an hour, yet another makes over $30 - $100 per hour and really doesn't "work" at all ... judge those who have money - yet take any freebees or benefits that are supposed to be for the poor ...
Better yet, let's stop judging and be happy that we are healthy and fortunate enough to have a good life. And, remember that if we are paying that high of taxes, odds are we are making pretty darned good money ..... and would be paying just as much TAX even if there were no welfare!
And to the person who suggested welfare people not be able to vote ... think a little harder about that one... it's bad enough that some government seems to forget that not all people are fortuate enough to have government jobs, aren't in the oil industry, aren't doctors or lawyers ...
I DO understand alot of the complaints and concerns over the abuse of the welfare system, but you just cannot lump together all those who need assistance as "lazy drunks or drug addicts".
Another point to consider is that when it comes to starvation and desperation, don't you think almost any person may turn to crime to be able to eat/ feed their children? In this sense, we can consider our tax dollars that go to welfare as a sort of "insurance" of decreasing the odds of being knocked over the head with a baseball bat .. just for the dollars in our pockets.
Live and let live ... stop and smell the roses... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/8/2008 1:16:04 PM | I am going to have to seriously consider leaving the forums. I am beginning to think people just post things, I was going to say hear themselves talk but, so they can see what they wrote is more accurate. I seem to do a lot of thread crapping mainly because there's a lot of incorrect ideas that needs correcting. Some will read what I say and then ask me "why do you think you're the only smart one and you think only your opinion is correct." Seriously read and THINK then you will realize my genius, yes that was my opinion but it's true.
Take what I said and was paraphrased then disagreed with:
And to the person who suggested welfare people not be able to vote ... think a little harder about that one..
You start your whole rant with a line that included "judge the system first". Can we then say instead we should change the system for the better. If someone is benefiting from a failed system would they choose to change it or keep it going on and on and on. Was this so hard to deduce logically? They will vote for whoever benefits them. Liberals such as yourself say all people should be treated the same and have their say. Do you want someone who can't run their own life making decisions that affect yours? I think you need to take your own advice and think harder.
The second part wasn't in response to what I said but was a follow on of your point, dull as it was:
it's bad enough that some government seems to forget that not all people are fortuate enough to have government jobs,
So if you get a government job you're fortunate? Whats stopping you from being fortunate or are you?
aren't in the oil industry,
Again, why can't you get a job in the oil industry?
aren't doctors or lawyers ...
If you go to medical or law school you too might be fortunate! If you sit on your @ss and like to watch tv does that make you unfortunate?
I would like to respond to the rest but my post get long. Let me just do a few.
judge the guys who make over $80,000 a year and shack up with a girl .. allowing her to collect welfare.
Allowing? So you blame the achiever but not the leach (the girl). You blame the responsible person making the $80k a year for helping to fix the welfare abuse. Thats my contention also. (not what you meant but I like twisting things around)
where a person has to bust their a$$ for $8.00 an hour, yet another makes over $30 - $100 per hour and really doesn't "work" at all .
I used to bust my @ss for less than $8 an hour. Through education and increasing my skills my work is worth more than $8 an hour so I get paid more and my boss doesn't think I do any work either. I don't get paid because they like me, I get paid because I provide services that my employer can 'sell' and make money from.
How hard is it to cook a burger or wash a car? How much would you pay for a burger that was cooked for you or pay to get your car washed? Your kids could do that for you as almost anyone could. Now lets suppose you have these bad headaches do you ask your kids whats wrong? ( hell they might be causing it) No, so you go to the doctor and they find a brain tumor. Do you then also go home and ask you kids to crack your head open and remove it? (They don't want to do the dishes but they might jump at the chance to do that for you) Your trusted neighbor? Your Mom, don't we trust mom with our life? How would you find someone skilled enough to do that for you? Do you ask the latest lottery winner, he is lucky isn't he? No, you would probably asked another type of lucky person. One that went to school for years studying and practicing instead of watching tv. You live in a world were we should all be treated with respect as equals. Go to the welfare office and pick one then show them your steak knives or better yet use theirs because it's probably a better set. Pay them $800. and hour to remove your brain tumor and you both come out ahead right?
We all make choices and live with the resulting consequences. Don't we try to teach our children that in preparation for life? Given the choice between working or sitting on my @ss doing nothing, I would pick 'b'. Give Bill Gates the same choice (he is given that choice every day) and obviously he decides to keep working. Is it surprising that he has more money than me through choices he made. I actually think I have more walking around money then him though, take that Bill you lucky piece oh sh1t! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/8/2008 1:36:54 PM | I am going to have to seriously consider leaving the forums.
That's the best idea you've offered yet.
Honestly, you post about verbally berating some poor individual in line waiting to use their food stamps...in front of other people...and then you have the audacity to suggest that this isn't bully behaviour???
And no...US foreign policy has absoloutely NOTHING to do with trying to make the world a better place. If you honestly believe that, you need to google something called "false flag terrorism". You need to learn about all the terrorist groups your government has supported financially, how many dictators that you've placed in power, trained by your own "intelligence" agencies. Osama Bin Laden being one of them.
You need to accept that your country has tried to turn Cuba into a 3rd world country for simply telling your big corporations to go home after Castro asked them to spread the wealth a bit more fairly. With that you need to accept that these attempts by your government have failed, and now Cuba's entire population gets healthcare and education that is tailored to individuals needs whereas you ( and my country as well) leaves people to die in the streets.
You (and I) live in a society that has citizens living in 1st world conditions right along side citizens living in 3rd world conditions. You need to realize that corporate capitalism is NOT sustainable...and just this example I've given alone should illustrate that perfectly.
Now flame away. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/8/2008 1:48:29 PM | Yes Cuba has universal healthcare but how many Cuban citizens own a car or their home?Not many compared to Canada and the US.Lets remember that Castro caused the mess in Cuba by seizing all of the foreign owned property.Chavez in Venezuela is headed in the same direction.
I have health insurance, a car and my own home.These things were not given to me...I had to WORK for them.
http://www.certifiedcubanclaims.org/faqs.htm | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/8/2008 1:52:20 PM | again...the reason Castro seized those companies is because they were in bed with the previous dictator who was working for the Americans. Period.
People in Cuba have a lower standard of living because of the barbaric sanctions the US placed on them. Cutting off trade routes tends to do that. I still argue that they have a much higher quality of life on the whole when compared to the millions in the US who have nothing, including no home, car, healthcare or access to resources that will help them in a meaningful way.
Capitalism creates the situation inheirantly. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/8/2008 2:18:09 PM | I was not going to reply because it's too easy. You can't really argue with someone who doesn't have their facts straight either. It's the classic battle of wits against an unarmed man. See my previous post about people just like to hear themselves talk probably because no one in real life likes to listen. The comment about Cuba being a better place to live?!?!?!?!? So the welfare solution is to have a reverse Mariel Boat lift. (I've been doing all the intellectual heavy lifting here, you need to put some effort in). We starved babies too back when JFK stopped ships laden with baby milk and medicines just because they might have had a nuclear tipped missile or launcher or two aboard.
Damn you baited me into this one. Ask the Cubans in Miami why they left their Utopia. Ask them if they think Fidel's brother should be running the place. Ask them if the US should do more or less to oust the Castrolites. Wait, on second thought you can't expect an intelligent answer from someone who left a country where they were cared for and risked their life and lost all their possessions and move to one that makes you fend for yourself. That's downright stupid not to mention un-American. | |
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