| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/13/2008 8:47:38 PM | | things should be 50/50 for both men and women on welfare and i think it is for the most part...but like others have mentioned there are ppl out there who know how to play the system and not get caught...but women can lose there children easily here if they don't keep up with the standards of CAS/social services....the environment has to be clean, the kids can't have any health issues or else the parent is seen as neglecting the child, god there so much more that can cause women to lose there kids here...and i've seen it happen many time to women who were good mothers but others didn't think so because they raised there child differently and report them causing them to be questioned as a parent | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/14/2008 3:07:53 AM |
Prepare, plan and save? Interesting. You do know how much it costs to raise one average child dont you? We'd all be saving till we were 90!! I believe you are taking things out of context in respect to the post made by Piscescoda.
I agree with Piscescoda, it's not unreasonable to expect a person to be in a financial situation to be able to support the child they chose to have without the assistance of others. Furthermore, if you want to be a stay-at-home mother, then marry a man who is willing to support you and your children. To burden a social system simply because you have decided that you would prefer to be home is simply wrong.
As long as I'm supporting someone, either directly or indirectly, I have the privilege of forming opinions based on the dues I've paid. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/14/2008 4:09:40 AM | | Im not a stay at home mother, Im a professionally qualified state registered specialist scientist (such a bloody mouthful lol). Although having said that I am at home now but thats down to disability rather than laziness. And so having paid my NI for many years, I too have the same rights as you to comment freely. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/14/2008 5:36:57 AM |
Furthermore, if you want to be a stay-at-home mother, then marry a man who is willing to support you and your children.
And what do you suggest the "stay at home mother " does when the husband leaves and takes the check book with him?
Everyone who has worked has paid the same dues even my teenagers have the same taxes taken out of their pay checks as you do!!!! FICA STATE SSI who doesnt see those deductions on their pay stub? Some people act like they are Donald Trump supporting the world with all the taxes dollars they put into the system when in reality your percentage in the same as everyones. So you just dont like taxes do you? Schools libraries, police, fire departments, roads and yes even WELFARE!!
Educate yourself and go VOTE if you dont like the tax laws!! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/14/2008 5:46:51 AM | I had a visitor last night. A young woman who used to hang out with my son. Now 18 and with a 3 month old baby. The father is 27. She spends most nights with the father but tells welfare she lives with her mother. She's finishing her schooling at home (for which I give her credit). Never did she mention looking for work. No reason she can't work part time at night while her mother looks after the baby. She seemed quite content and happy with her life. I know she's going to be a longterm recipient.
I asked her about a young man who lived with me for 6 months. He had been thrown out of his house at the age of 16. I supported him for the 6 months, got tired of it, he moved into his girlfriends. She told me he was doing great. On assistance and going to school 2 days a week. What's he doing the other 5 days? Eighteen years old and can't find a job?
Most longterm welfare recipients start their "career" at a young age. This is where we should be concentrating our efforts for change. People who choose to raise their children while on assistance, you stand a good chance of raising children who will also be on assistance. "Children learn what they live". Teach them a better way through example.
This post is NOT directed at people who need assistance for understandable reasons. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/14/2008 1:39:35 PM | piscescoda-According to your profile you are not a Mother so you would not know the hardships of raising a child alone nor would you know the difficulties of having a child with a disability
Whether piscescoda is a mother or not, it isn't relevant to this discussion. Many of the posters are advocating the idea of personal choices and responsibility for such choices. Not knowing the hardships of parenthood doesn't mean we should allow irresponsibility. Not-for-you, being a Child Support Collector, would have obvious compassion for the women without support for their children, but the nature of your job is to collect that support from the deadbeat dads out there ... not to defend bad choices and lack of planning.
That's a choice you make when you decide to have kids. Either you want to stay home with them and you prepare and plan and save before you have them, or you decide to have them anyway and you work through it because you didn't prepare, plan, or save to cover staying home. You make the choice. ....and they lived happily ever after
Why do you laugh and sneer at the idea of good choices through preparation and planning, not-for-you?? Is it that you're one of those people who believe in the notion of endless entitlements devoid of responsibility?? Other posters have already said: welfare is temporary assistance and NOT an acceptable way of life.
As long as I'm supporting someone, either directly or indirectly, I have the privilege of forming opinions based on the dues I've paid
Well said on that one, psssst.
Everyone who has worked has paid the same dues even my teenagers have the same taxes taken out of their pay checks as you do!!!!
Some people act like they are Donald Trump supporting the world with all the taxes dollars they put into the system when in reality your percentage in the same as everyones. So you just dont like taxes do you? Schools libraries, police, fire departments, roads and yes even WELFARE!!
But the percentages paid by the non-welfare person is never collected back as a benefit. A welfare recipient, (who at one time was a tax-paying worker) is collecting the percentage they paid in the past and more. Services like police, fire department, roads and national defense are needed by most people so there is no problem with taxes going to them. However, not everyone requires welfare ... so why should the ones not needing welfare pay into it???  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/14/2008 3:39:19 PM | Padawan61--I am not a child support collector and I also dont pick my booger and eat them.
Now you are not a mother either but I am and I also have first hand knowledge of working with a disabled child....do you?? Do you have any idea the cost of a motorized wheel chair? Medications? Physical Therapy? Do you stop to think for one minute that the stress of a handicapped child was to much for the marriage to handle and now one parent is left with all the baggage, medical, educational, emotional and yes FINANCIAL!! Do you think the women ever once thought their life would turn out that way when they said I DO?? I was blessed not to have that hard road and I am amazed at the strength and courage some show and I want to shoot the abusers of the system!!!
To answer you very stupid question of why should the ones who dont need welfare pay into the system....GO TAKE FRESHMEN GOVERNMENT CLASS. They will start you on the basics. My fingers are getting tired. Go vote, write your senator etc. but b1tching on a forum really wont do any good! | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/15/2008 2:16:50 AM | ^^^^^
Padawan61--I am not a child support collector and I also dont pick my booger and eat them
I don't know if you pick your boogers and eat them or not ... and frankly, I don't really care, but your profile clearly list "child support collector" as your profession. Did I mis-read it or were your fingers so tired that you mis-typed it??
You have this nasty habit of diverting the discussion to very specific cases of disabled children left by their less than responsible fathers. Many of the posters have already emphasized that the real issue is the careless and irresponsible attitudes of people producing children when they not financially capable, expecting societal intervention in the form of welfare payments to clean up their mess ... and that has nothing to do with disabled children. Which part of irresponsibility don't you understand????
To answer you very stupid question of why should the ones who dont need welfare pay into the system....GO TAKE FRESHMEN GOVERNMENT CLASS
That wasn't a question. Since you brought up the idea of paying taxes for services such as police, firefighters, etc. which every citizen requires as opposed to welfare services ... which may not be needed by every citizen.  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/15/2008 5:46:16 AM | I don't hate people on welfare, some people really do need it and have no other option for the time being, I just hate one person in particular. They guy who rents the lower level of the house I live in. The guy has been milking it for 2 years (plus 2 years he was on EI), so he hasn't had a job in 4 years. Absolutely no reason why other than he can't be bothered, and he's too drunk most of the time to even think about it or go to interviews even he did get some. Every cent he gets goes to booze. He's permanently drunk and is violent and verbally abusive when he's had a few. I really am surprised he hasn't been cut off of welfare yet. Aren't you supposed to show your making an effort to find employment?
What bothers me that I work and pay taxes that get given to ***holes like him and all it does is support his alcoholism and give him a warm place to drink himself into a coma. Thankfully my landlord is giving him his eviction notice! But who knows how long it will take to get him out since he won't leave willingly.
So I don't hate all people on welfare, but I do hate those that abuse it and are too lazy to get off of their asses and get a job. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/15/2008 2:33:53 PM | i hope ppl realize if someone is abusing the welfare system and its obvious they can report them to social services
i know ppl who have been abusing it and proved it then eventually someone got sick of it and reported them...they were kick of it because of the abuse or were forced to change there ways and were monitored as well to prevent them from doing it again | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/15/2008 3:14:18 PM | psssst....I hate to point out the obvious flaw in a few of the posters self serving replies..but...ughh....if you have the perception that ALL people on welfare are cheating the system...and you know this because a guy you know....knows a guy who is dating a girl who is cheating the system....puhlease....pick the friggen phone up and report them!
Look at welfare for people who need it as an investment in children of the future.
I think some of you would be smart enough to realize that your attitudes will predict your futures. The very people you demean and oppress, are the ones who will decide how you spend your golden years...some of you guys are cowards....It is easy to kick a person when they are already down...I hope some of you know how to actually fight a fair fight...
Gotta love the upper social class....they have traded prejiduce of the black people for being predjiduce of the poor people....
Padawan...I hear there looking for a few spare bodies in Afgainistain....and piscescoda....you could probably get a job with a Tim Horten's mobile truck... spew your thoughts and ideals about the socialized system you hate over there and lemme know how well your opinions are recieved over there....
Cheers!
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/15/2008 4:29:03 PM | The Amish community has found a way around paying into the welfare system. They also dont pay into the education, fire departments etc...and the dont use them! Their society is complety self -sufficient and they only rely on each other for schooling, medical, food and all necessities. BUT here is the big BUT when they go into "our" world to sell their homemade product, they do pay sales tax.
So I suggest either you vote to change tax laws or become Amish. Gosh then you wouldnt have these computers or pictures or buttons and I really dont like green shades...... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 12:50:29 AM |
psssst....I hate to point out the obvious flaw in a few of the posters self serving replies..but...ughh..
You talk big but I see nothing you said of any substance.
..if you have the perception that ALL people on welfare are cheating the system.
Not all but many, I would say most of them are.
..and you know this because a guy you know....knows a guy who is dating a girl who is cheating the system....puhlease....pick the friggen phone up and report them!
Many of these people use the system and are within the guidlines. Besides I don't personnally associate with any welfare recipients or live near them.
Look at welfare for people who need it as an investment in children of the future.
Children of welfare become users of the system themselves it's passed on to the next generation. The cycle needs to be broken and people need to be taught to take care of themselves.
I think some of you would be smart enough to realize that your attitudes will predict your futures.
TRUE! I have a good attitude and have lost jobs and went out and found new ones. I have needed money so got a job delivering Pizza's. I went to school to try to boost my earning potential.
The very people you demean and oppress, are the ones who will decide how you spend your golden years..
What is this suppose to mean? You are right in a way. Social security already has problems and with all these leaches futher weakening the system I get less or maybe nothing from the system when I retire.
.some of you guys are cowards....It is easy to kick a person when they are already down.
Losers quit when they go down and stay down thats what makes them losers! Winners get up again and again and keep fighting. Winners use negative comments made against them as motivation to prove them wrong. Didn't you see Rocky??
..I hope some of you know how to actually fight a fair fight...
Fair??? Have you ever heard life is not fair? Many welfare recipients are just as able bodied as me. Is that fair?
Gotta love the upper social class....they have traded prejiduce of the black people for being predjiduce of the poor people....
This just shows the intelligence of the person that wrote it.
Padawan...I hear there looking for a few spare bodies in Afgainistain....and piscescoda....you could probably get a job with a Tim Horten's mobile truck... spew your thoughts and ideals about the socialized system you hate over there and lemme know how well your opinions are recieved over there....
I don't even know what this is suppose to mean.
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 1:26:00 AM | Besides I don't personnally associate with any welfare recipients or live near them.
^^
if this is the case, then what do you base all your opinions on? heresay? written statistics? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 2:38:57 AM | | I believe welfare should exist for people like students, and job seekers, and people with disabilities, but with our piss weak Government, too many feral low lifes get their welfare every week and spend it on booze, drugs etc, and complain if they don't get it. As far as I am concerned, they can rot in the gutter, they are a burden on us taxpayers. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 10:32:41 AM |
Furthermore, if you want to be a stay-at-home mother, then marry a man who is willing to support you and your children. And what do you suggest the "stay at home mother " does when the husband leaves and takes the check book with him?
Everyone who has worked has paid the same dues even my teenagers have the same taxes taken out of their pay checks as you do!!!! Highly doubtful... but if this soothes your conscience, then go ahead and believe it. 
Some people act like they are Donald Trump supporting the world with all the taxes dollars they put into the system when in reality your percentage in the same as everyones. And some act so self-righteous that others are left to wonder as to the reasoning behind this... 
Educate yourself and go VOTE if you dont like the tax laws!! Give me a Canadian candidate who will place stricter laws on the welfare system and I will cast my vote for that person.
I have before and its improved the system to the point many of the people no longer found it lucrative to remain on welfare.
Perhaps I'm not the one lacking in education...  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 10:32:54 AM | [Many of these people use the system and are within the guidlines.]
well thats true but they gotta f*ck up somewhere at some point...
a good example of this is my best friends crack head brother was working part time at the hospital and using a fake address to get a welfare check where he "followed the guidelines of welfare" and after he screwed over my friend royally money wise she got fed up with him and his addiction and called welfare and supplied prof he was getting more money from the hospital then from then....guess what...he got kicked off and now owes them big time...so just wait till they cross the line with the guidelines then report them...once the line is crossed they will have a hard time to prove otherwise | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 1:21:28 PM | | nevermind welfare moochers, i can think of a few politicians that are a burden on us taxpayers... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 4:30:49 PM | Padawan...I hear there looking for a few spare bodies in Afgainistain....and piscescoda....you could probably get a job with a Tim Horten's mobile truck... spew your thoughts and ideals about the socialized system you hate over there and lemme know how well your opinions are recieved over there.... I don't even know what this is suppose to mean
Probably means nothing more than the prattlings of a woman who drools on her pillow. Notice all the spelling errors.
The Amish community has found a way around paying into the welfare system. They also dont pay into the education, fire departments etc...and the dont use them! Their society is complety self -sufficient and they only rely on each other for schooling, medical, food and all necessities
What's Amish ... some sort of religious commune?? If such a community is self-sufficient with "do-it-yourself" brain surgeries, go nuts ... but I think this is yet another attempt at side-tracking the thread on your part.
Besides I don't personnally associate with any welfare recipients or live near them. ^^ if this is the case, then what do you base all your opinions on? heresay? written statistics?
If there is enough cross-section of people's opinions and you add statistics of welfare abuse, then yes, "hearsay" (as you called it) and written statistics becomes valid. People who personally know about welfare cheats will not give glowing "reviews" of such abusers. Thus, not everyone need to associate with or live near them.
nevermind welfare moochers, i can think of a few politicians that are a burden on us taxpayers
That may be so, but this thread isn't about political parasites, although they should be hanged too. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 4:51:46 PM |
Notice all the spelling errors.
All, meaning two and one grammatical error? Woopee****ingdoo call the cops.
SMH | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 5:26:09 PM | I hate to say it but there are a lot of people here who aren't clear on some of the fundamentals of a prosperous civilization. One of the most important being that we survive and prosper when we co-operate. On an aside, does anyone ever wonder if the key to our survival is watching us make the same mistakes over and over for thousands of years...just waiting for a spark of enlightenment before it finally reveals itself???
Hating on the poor, villifying them, adds nothing constructive to the discussion or it's solution. If anything, it's clear that it poisons a fragile balance in the public opinion to such a degree that a caste system is clearly seen. This has a compounding effect on an already serious set of obstacles.
Think of it this way, imprisonment as a deterrant has proved a huge failure in the U.S., despite being one of the largest democracies on the planet (India being first). How do you explain that? How do you explain the per capita imprisonment numbers that place the US at number one in the world??? Isn't the United States the land of milk and honey where every American can have the dream...but many don't for some reason???
What is that reason??? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 5:34:09 PM | well summing up all views so far....the reasons vary to why ppl judge the system...and not much can be done about any of it other than deal with it and hope things change for the better...but obviously its the abusers making the honest look bad by all of the opinions...
so the real question is what can be done about the abusers other than reporting them once they step out of the guidelines?
how does each state/province handle the abusers? | |
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| Been on a coupla sides of this
Posted: 3/16/2008 5:39:25 PM | I used to work at a school that was part of moving people from welfare to work (in SoCal). It seemed like many of the students/recipients had been on welfare for some time and perhaps weren't the first generation in their family to be on welfare. However, they were working hard to better their education and move off of welfare (the next step being job training).
I also have known women (my former brother-in-law's girlfriend and others in that same "former" family of mine) who absolutely abused the system. I've also taught students who come from families on welfare and some (I stress -some-) seem to have money to spend on what I would consider non-essentials.....smokes, name-brand everything, fancy cars, etc.
And I have also been in need myself. I was married a nearly 2 yrs. and pregnant. I took a leave of absence from my job as a teachers aide and worked at a newspaper (I've always wanted to write). Hated the job, it was mostly sales, and got my husband hired there instead. After a few months, I got hit by a car while on-duty (and 5 mo. preg). That's the day my hubby left me for a woman at work. I filed for divorce and set about a plan to pay my bills. Turns out there's no such thing as "prenatal support" and you can't get allimony until you're divorced. He didn't have to pay a thing and he didn't pay for a thing. I moved to a tiny apt (I already had a 7 yr. old son) and got used baby stuff and had my second son. I had to borrow money for diapers, rent, etc. It was awful!!! I finally broke down and went to welfare office. The guy laughed at me.
I'm not kidding. He basically said that a smart white girl like me needed to find another way. There were LONG waiting lists and I wouldn't be anywhere near the top. He advised me to move in with my parents. I'd been on my own since 17 f rom an abusive home.
Sooooo.....I left the office and got a better job. Since then I have always worked full-time, raised two young men (now 22 and 15), graduated from college cum laude, bought and sold two homes and in the process of selling 5 acres of land that I own here in Calif. I have the career that I've always wanted and no one to thank but myself. I DID IT.
My point??? Welfare SHOULD be there to help you when you have children. Granted, my ex should have had to pay, but he didn't. I didn't do anything wrong and should not have been homeless (thankfully I wasn't) because there were too many other people abusing the system. It should be a very temporary solution to an obvious problem. There should be lots of strings attached but the amount of help should actually do some good!! I look at is as one more broken system that's become too political to fix. Like schools.... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 6:09:49 PM | When I went to college, I thought yeah - I'l leave here, go to University - probably Oxford or Cambridge. Do some mad drugs then when I've finished education I'l go on Welfare for a year or so. Live off of Tax payers money, get free fruit and veg, free house and free mp3 player (on offer at time, I believe this fantastic deal has now ended)... Then get a job just under thresh hold pay for paying back all my student loans so I never have to pay them. Then claim working tax credits to top myself for the pay I have purposfully dropped.
I bet you will now.....
Anyone else done this?
Laterz,
THE ZIPP  | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/16/2008 10:11:17 PM | Notice all the spelling errors. All, meaning two and one grammatical error? Woopee****ingdoo call the cops
You can tell the ones with no substance to what they say ... but will go on and on with their less than intelligent rant only to make themselves look silly with spelling errors. 
Yes I do know of someone that had been on welfare. Without going into personal details ... suffice to say this person (at the age of 18) with only a junior high school education and NO financial structure in place, decided to have a baby for the simple fact that her parents didn't love her and she rationalized that a baby would do so unconditionally. Eventually, she did the right thing and gave her son up for adoption knowing full well she didn't have what it takes to give him a good life. She openly admitted this to me. The annoying thing is ... she mistakenly believes that during the times (later in her life) when she could hold down a job, the taxes she paid was going to pay back welfare. Excuse me ... but the amount of taxes I've paid and continue to pay far exceeds her meager contribution ... and I've never been on welfare. What makes her taxes so special that it's paying back welfare?? If she was writing a monthly check to the welfare office in addition to paying her share of taxes, then I would say she's repaying ... otherwise, not a chance. Welfare abusers have this knack in justifying their (less than moral) actions.
Advocates for the poor, the homeless, the welfare users, the "marginalized" and the "less fortunate" is always emphasizing: "Do you know anyone in that situation?" ... "Have you walked a mile in their shoes?" That kind of excuse is getting old and stale. | |
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