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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/2/2009 6:58:08 PM |
The programme regarding Stanley Meyer was aired 1994 on the BBC/CBC
The programme Equinox "It runs on water" UK 1995
Sadly Stanley is dead, they say it was an Anurysem? or poison? I guess he got close to the truth hey?
Or, alternatively, he was a con-man and a fraud who was never able to provide any independent corroboration for his ridiculous claims, and he just happened to die. So sad.
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/3/2009 10:35:00 AM | After reading this thread I was reminded of this.
Back in 1982/83, I was a DJ at a golden oldies radio station. At the top of the hour we would give the weather and read news headlines from the AP ticker. One headline I read was about a man from Arkansas who had invented a perpetual motion machine and for several days afterward we read expanded reports on this story that the machine had been taken to a local university and tests had been positive.Then the stories stopped. I never saw anything again. I wonder if anyone else has heard of this story and could share. I googled this the other day and came up with nothing.
How you can make totally preposterous statements and then expect to be taken seriously by anyone at all is beyond the ridiculous
Because if they ridicule everyone they can somehow reaffirm their own ignorance by trying to make everyone else believe as they believe. New information scares them. It might change the world they've become comfortable in.
Just recently, on another thread, I was involved in a discussion with a fellow POFer who demanded references for my statements. In the interest of fair play I felt he should provide references to his own conflicting arguments as well.
He did provide references, but just as you've implied above, his arguments/references were based on outdated information, and yet when I provided more current references validating my point he vanished from the thread. Sadly many people like him don't want to expand their knowledge base, they are content to live in their own boxed in little worlds.
What I've seen is that many of the same POFers attempt to squash most of the discourse on many of these threads. While I must admit, occasionally they are justified in their disagreements, but it is rather their disrespectful manner by which they get their points accross that cause the problems.
I have no issue with disagreeing or being wrong, because without these experiences how would we learn anything?
If only some of us can learn to play nice. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/3/2009 7:02:23 PM |
Back in 1982/83, I was a DJ at a golden oldies radio station. At the top of the hour we would give the weather and read news headlines from the AP ticker. One headline I read was about a man from Arkansas who had invented a perpetual motion machine and for several days afterward we read expanded reports on this story that the machine had been taken to a local university and tests had been positive.Then the stories stopped. I never saw anything again. I wonder if anyone else has heard of this story and could share. I googled this the other day and came up with nothing.
Obviously, the inventor was killed and his invention hidden away in Warehouse 13 by the corrupt Big Oil/Washington conspiracy.
Or, maybe, just maybe, his testing didn't pan out once the data was actually analyzed, and like Every. Single. One. of these crackpot scams and frauds, it was laid to rest without much fanfare.
Unless you can produce the evidence, of course, like we've asked Solomon999 to do time and time again.
Because if they ridicule everyone they can somehow reaffirm their own ignorance by trying to make everyone else believe as they believe. New information scares them. It might change the world they've become comfortable in.
Actually, perpetual energy, including the "oxyhydrogen" scam, *IS*, start to finish, bullsh!t and a scam.
If you believe so strongly that it's just the ossified sensibilities of people scared of new information, buy some of these scams. Invest. Let us know how it works out. Unless you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, you're just trying to sound new age and enlightened. Superior. How's that working out for you?
Solomon999 has been invited again and again and again to provide corroborative evidence of his bullsh!t claims, and has yet to do so, with the exception of some popular media propaganda clips, completely devoid of any analysis, evidence, or "proof." If this is "new science," why can none of these perpetual energy proponents provide so much as a single scrap of independent confirmation?
It's called a scam. A con. A confidence game. Fraud. Feel free to buy in, but anyone with the sense god gave a weasel will wait for at least SOMEthing resembling "proof of concept."
He did provide references, but just as you've implied above, his arguments/references were based on outdated information, and yet when I provided more current references validating my point he vanished from the thread. Sadly many people like him don't want to expand their knowledge base, they are content to live in their own boxed in little worlds.
As for your stalkerish cross-thread bashing, I started my work week Wednesday, and I haven't had time to investigate the information you provided. I figured it would be rude to not give it some proper attention, and 12-hour days don't leave me much time to get up to the library on campus. But, since it makes you feel superior to think I vanished from the thread, you keep right on with your delusions, mmmkay?
Besides, I'm only allowed 5 posts per day. Should I have given you a "placekeeper," letting you know I was planning to do some research as time allowed? Sorry, I didn't know your patience and self-esteem were so limited that you needed immediate feedback.
If only some of us can learn to play nice.
The irony inherent in this statement is staggering. Perhaps a mirror would be useful to you. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/4/2009 11:37:40 AM |
A Dr of medicine demonstrated on worldwide television recently a method he discovered to instantainiously turn salt water into a slow burning oxyhyrdgen gas, using a high frequency scanning device he was experimenting with . The OHH gas produced burned with a flame about the same form and speed as alcohol. The media clip of this is NOT properganda ! So how do YOU explain this discovery of a REAL scientist ? And don't cry I WILL wait for answer.
I'm still waiting for you to show us how this produces more energy than it consumes. Any 9th-grade chemistry student with a battery and some salt water has made hydrogen and oxygen and then burned them. ...and it takes more energy to generate the hydrogen/oxygen than you could ever possibly get back by burning it.
You DO understand how to test this, right? You measure the amount of energy you're putting into the system to generate the gas, then you burn the gas, perhaps use it to turn a motor, and you measure the amount of energy you get out. The ratio of output:input is ALWAYS going to be less than one. If you can show otherwise, in a controlled, repeatable manner, then we'll listen.
I suppose it might be propaganda to those wanting to discedit it like history book readers, pencil pushing clerks and those living in the dark ages or the deaf and blind.
Also I see you wish to ignore real facts and masterbate about the rest. Can't you keep your problem sexual proclivities at home where they belong and not clog these forums with them.
Keep up the personal attacks. You'll just get this thread deleted like the others.
And then wait approximately forever for any sort of controlled, accurate measurement of this supposed "overunity" generator. Go away and talk your preposterous rubbish to those at the morgue . At least they wont argue with your nonsense , or perhaps a garden or farm or somewhere where they can use your fertiliser.
And we are STILL waiting for any sort of proof of your claims. You can make personal attacks all day long, and keep repeating the same completely unsubstantiated bullsh!t lies about these overunity/perpetual energy devices, and claim conspiracy and victim status, that you're being picked on and "trolled," but unless and until you can show some PROOF, you're doing nothing more than perpetuating (like the pun?) a fraud, a con, and a scam. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/6/2009 11:16:45 PM | Turns out the HHO references the hydrogen and oxygen existing in stoichiometric ratios. 2 :1
The issue though is whether or not there's an economical way to produce h2 and o2 from electrolysis of water.
This sounds like old news to me. Electrolysis has been known for a really long time... what exactly is the crack pot claim? I didn't see it.
As to the fuel oil companies pump out being inefficient... in what sense do you mean their inefficient? Even if we switched to Hydrogen and Oxygen as fuel, we'd still be using internal combustion which isn't that efficient (about 10-20% i think). If powering cars is the goal why not just use that electricity that would otherwise be used in electrolysis and use it to run the car? electric motors are much more efficient (I think up to 80%) | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/6/2009 11:45:04 PM | | All this excitement about net energy output machines by a person who states in his profile that he makes a living lending money to Bill Gates. Sounds like such a gifted, wealthy person would be putting his money where his keyboard is and making a fortune with those magic machines. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 210 | |
| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/7/2009 12:30:49 AM |
My claim is that this 'watergas' can be produced for next to nothing to supplement or run fossil fueled engines at a much lower cost than conventional fossil fuel.
Nonsense, if this was true than the proponents and "inventors" of this scam would have a device worth the value of the fossil fuel they're supposedly saving. This would be $Billions. These con artists claim that if they only had some research funding, they could sell the idea to Detroit (or what's left of it), ...funny, Detroit isn't interested...
As such, James Randi has extended his $1,000,000 offer to any of these "inventors" who can demostrate that their device works as claimed.... No takers, they seem to prefer nickel and diming the credulous consumer like carnival clairvoyants, rather than collect a cool mil. just for proving they aren't making shit up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYYZXPNMQEo&feature=channel_page | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/7/2009 2:24:15 AM |
John Searl maybe perhaps the discoverer of anti gravity in the 1940's.
Joseph Newman , who should have a Knighthood and Nobel prize unveiled his Unified Mechanical Field theory in 1965. He explained gravity, electricity, magnetism, the wave and particletheory of light etc.
One of Joseph's machines produced 65 TIMES more energy than it consumed.
Can you understand this ? Let me explain it simply for you . Joseph's machine outputs 65 times the energy it uses to drive it. In other words power input of 1=power output of 65. And don't worry, you wont find an explanation for it in your kindergarten physics books because they are ANCIENT HISTORY BOOKS !!!
Norman Wootan and Joe McLain's MRA device produces 256 TIMES the energy it consumes. Independantly tested by no less than SIX different agencies.
This figure was verified and provided by the National Security Agency !!!
Reider Finsrud's beautiful device has NEVER ! ! ! stopped since it was developed and the speed of it remains constant within one twenty fifth of a second , with NO conventional energy imput. But wait there's MORE !
Prove any one of these assertions. They are all scams. (I will gladly apologize for the preceding statement should you ever be able to provide proof for their veracity.) Might as well throw in the Perendev motors that have failed to materialize despite being 2 weeks from release back in 2004.
My claim is that this 'watergas' can be produced for next to nothing to supplement or run fossil fueled engines at a much lower cost than conventional fossil fuel.
If you can't understand that or by how it increases the fuel economy of said engines, then whatever so called physics you have learned was wrong or perhaps you didn't understand it correctly.
Again, you have never demonstrated either of these assertions are true. Until you can provide independent controlled confirmation that this "watergas" (aka: mixed hydrogen and oxygen produced by electrolysis), it too is a scam. At a minimum, confirmation would require an accredited testing site which takes at a minimum three approximately identical vehicles and installs the electrolysis/injection system in one, tunes up the second, and just runs the third, providing before and after mileage/efficiency data.
And call me a troll all you want. Saying a falsehood one hundred times doesn't make it more true. :roll: (It does, however, make it an obvious attempt to divert attention from your inability to provide proof for your impossible claims.) | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/7/2009 3:34:38 AM | I have a morbid fascination with these oppressors existing in the shadows and government conspiracy theories...
Maybe the oppressors are nothing more than the ignorant masses at large that buy into ideas like motors that generate more energy than they use... and so the inadvertent 'man' that's holding everything back is the proverbial man in the mirror? | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 213 | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 214 | |
| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/7/2009 6:32:12 AM | The proof is in the pudding my good friend
Pudding power, Shit! Bill Cosby! ...how could we have been so foolish to miss this? [/sarcasm]
BTW:
"The proof of the pudding is the eating."
~ Don Quixote, Cervantes
The proof of the claim is in the testing, ...why no testing?
if this was true than the proponents and "inventors" of this scam would have a device worth the value of the fossil fuel they're supposedly saving. This would be $Billions. PERFECTLY and EXACTLY TRUE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone's channeling Billy Mays.....
Wait for it, ...wait for it, ....here it comes!
That's why these men are NOT allowed to patient their products.
The balace of power and wealth would be taken away from those possesing it now and be distributed to the people of the world.
CONSPIRACY!
...in keeping with the pudding thing, I'm expecting a black helicopter to come rising out of the east, angled just so, and piloted by, Pedro Crespo ...who will save us, Don Quixote?
See: "Tilting at windmills".
I wouldn't let James Randi test the water tank valve in my toilet thank you
It's amazing what some will do to avoid a million dollars,
...and apparently, Sancho Panza is busy using the toilet anyway. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/7/2009 9:02:08 AM |
The proof of the claim is in the testing, ...why no testing? I quote one of my previous statements. Norman Wootan and Joe McLain's MRA device produces 256 TIMES the energy it consumes. Independantly tested by no less than SIX different agencies. This figure was verified and provided by the National Security Agency !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If this is not testing then I don't know what is .
I see where the problem lies: You don't understand what proof is. This is the CLAIM or ASSERTION, and then what you provide to show this is a true statement is the PROOF.
You may confuse others and yourself with your avoidence and misquotes and pathetic attempts to confuse the issue , but not me my friend.
If you wish to discuss science then do , but why bother us with your own confusion.
Sorry mate , I'm sad to say you wouldn't even make an assistant to an assistant to an assistent to a laywer.
I'm sure scorpiomover would immediately see the truth in Joseph Newman's figures . And he's not even a physicik physsisisst . Sorry how do you pronounce that.
I'm tired now and finding it boring dealing with people with certain disabilities. Don't get me wrong , I have many disabilities also, as my good friend ith has pointed out many times to my lighter side.
Thankz guys but you are too boringly stone age for me. Or maybe
Yeah, trying to keep you on-topic is definitely distracting and confusing the issue. Your continued attempts to deflect the discussion through ad hominem attacks is lame and pathetic. Try to stay on-topic for 5 minutes and provide SOME PROOF. You claim there is "truth in Joseph Newman's figures," but you never provide the source of those figures, the figures themselves, or any independent confirmation of those figures.
And... choosing Scorpiomover as your fallacious "appeal to authority" is ... weird. At best. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/7/2009 12:18:03 PM | Well, there isn't anything wrong with a 90% ICE other than the fact that it doesn't exist. The most efficient ICE is aboout 50% efficient. Electric motors are still better.
Who said anything about electrolysis ? Not me. Are you posting in the correct thread ? Duh !
If it is not cheaper than using fossil fuels , then WHY ??? do the oil companies use hydrogen to extract the oil products instead of using their own fossil fuel ????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!
Can't you comprehend this fact somehow ?! Sorry, I guess not .
Have you ever read about how crude oil is processed to form things like gasoline? What are you talking about? The 'hydro-treating' step?
ah... whatever...
If you're going to use water as fuel you're going to have to break it's bonds somehow. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/13/2009 11:10:38 PM | there are a number of companies working on hydrogen assist add on technology that uses excess electricity produced while driving to make the hydrogen and increases the gas milage of the vehicle. They do work to some degree but are far from a revolutionary breakthrough or energy crisis solution.
Greencheck is trying to market these systems but not doing that well.
there are also hydrolic energy assist add on systems to store breaking power and then release it for startup which also increases [ stop start city ] gas milage.
Azure Dynamics is doing that and has sold its product to Bus companies and Couriers across North America. ... claiming up to a 40 percent increase in gas milage in the city. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/14/2009 11:36:36 AM | You know, I heard there were a few companies doing something with regenerative braking... like Toyota, Ford, Honda... You might know the cars as the Prius, or anything else mainstream that has "hybrid" in the name.
Yep. It works. But I can't find anything about Azure Dynamics using any sort of hydraulic regenerative system... they seem to be solely a hybrid gas/electric, diesel/electric vehicle provider. Which is a proven technology and quite awesome (see the vehicles above).
http://greenchektech.com/report/GreenChekReport.pdf
This is more interesting. Of course, the testing company that showed something like a 19% increase in fuel efficiency also noted they didn't have control over the vehicle for 2-3 months between the initial tests and the post-alteration tests. They suggest at least 3 identical vehicles, one which would remain unaltered and two for alteration and testing under more controlled conditions.
The testing was conducted a year and a half ago, and nothing since... Nothing in the news or changes in the website since November of last year. I'm sure it's just Big Oil keeping the little guy down. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/14/2009 1:52:44 PM | my mistake on the hydrolic aspect though it is old technology as well.
from their website.
<div class='quote'>
AZD has developed the Balance™ Hybrid Electric drive system for Ford's E450 Cutaway and Strip Chassis trucks. The Balance™ hybrid electric drive system manages the conventional 5.4 litre Triton gasoline engine and the 5-speed automatic TorqShift transmission to produce a cleaner, more fuel efficient vehicle for your business needs. The hybrid features electric-launch assist, engine-off at idle and regenerative braking which combine to improve fuel economy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
they use the electric regenerative braking system ... which is only logical when you are developing electric drive systems.
as for greenchek ...
<div class='quote'>7:00 AM ET, June 10, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO, Jun 10, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- GreenChek Technology Inc. (US:GCHK), a leading globally focused provider of hydrogen based technology for mobile transportation and stationary power generation applications, previously announced the shipping of ERD units to the UK. The company is pleased to report that the heavy goods vehicle ERD installations in the United Kingdom are now completed. During the green fleet pilot program, the ERD units will undergo real time evaluation, demonstrating the integration of the ERD into the regular operational services of a large transportation system, while allowing monitoring of operations, maintenance and fueling over a sustained period of time. The goal is to increase fleet fuel efficiency and decrease environmentally harmful emissions, such as carbon dioxide and particulates, from the current operational baseline. Greenchecks' mechanics performed the installation of the ERD units on modern Euro 3 standard vehicles. Lincoln Parke, President of GreenChek stated, "The company is hopeful that this project could serve as a blueprint for both public and private heavy goods vehicle fleets to engage in a more environmentally proactive approach to emission reduction. We look forward to more successful installations in Europe, Asia and North America."
they are still trying to sell stuff
Another small company doing some research is Eclipse Energy Technologies I.
EET is working on a hydrogen-oxygen gas generation system as a fuel additive for internal combustion and diesel engines and as a means of heating water faster and cheaper than traditional electric and gas heaters with associated storage tank reservoirs for the hot water | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 9/14/2009 2:10:10 PM | | The only one I know of that was vaugely plausible was Zero Point Vacuum Energy. That there is to date no known way to extract this energy (in such a way as to violate the laws of the conservation of energy) leads me to believe that it's just not possible to do so! | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:43:15 AM | | Perpetual energy is not an invention. It is a myth. It would violate the laws of thermodynamics, and so can't exist in this universe. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool, or a fraud. R.Buckminster Fuller did not create any perpetual energy inventions. I know people who live in dome homes, so there are no laws banning them. What did you drink this morning, instead of coffee? | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:50:14 AM | | The way to prove that a perpetual energy machine works is simple...hook the output up to the input, start it going, remove all other sources of power, and see how long it runs itself. Not long is my bet...certainly not perpetually. So far, no perpetual energy/motion machine has passed this test. They have all stopped working. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 11/13/2009 1:25:24 PM | Hey thorb..
you wrote:
"there are a number of companies working on hydrogen assist add on technology that uses excess electricity produced while driving to make the hydrogen and increases the gas milage of the vehicle. They do work to some degree but are far from a revolutionary breakthrough or energy crisis solution.
Greencheck is trying to market these systems but not doing that well."
That would be because when tested objectively, they don't work. Talk to someone who understands how a modern..... that would be 2001 or newer, car works, and what these systems supposedly do, and you will understand. It really is very simple why it doesn't work.
As far as "excess electricity produced while driving"........ THAT too is a myth. How an alternator works is that it produces elctricity ONLY when it is needed, and ONLY AS MUCH AS IS NEEDED. This is easily proved......... Turn you car on in the garage, then turn on the headlights. Unless you have a brand new, fully charged, even a little overcharged battery, the second the headlights put a drain on the battery, the alternator starts to make electricity, and the motor will slow down very very slightly, but usually speed up again. What is happening is that the drain on the battery causes the alternator to start making electricity, thereby putting a slight drag on the motor, which slows down for a second or so, and then the CPU (cars computer) speeds the motor back up to compensate for the added drag on the motor.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is one "technology" that Detroit didn't steal and put on the shelf becasue they are in cahoots with BIG OIL............
Paul K | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 11/14/2009 2:26:49 AM |
As far as "excess electricity produced while driving"........ THAT too is a myth. How an alternator works is that it produces elctricity ONLY when it is needed, and ONLY AS MUCH AS IS NEEDED. This is easily proved......... Turn you car on in the garage, then turn on the headlights. Unless you have a brand new, fully charged, even a little overcharged battery, the second the headlights put a drain on the battery, the alternator starts to make electricity, and the motor will slow down very very slightly, but usually speed up again. What is happening is that the drain on the battery causes the alternator to start making electricity, thereby putting a slight drag on the motor, which slows down for a second or so, and then the CPU (cars computer) speeds the motor back up to compensate for the added drag on the motor.
Not exactly. The alternator on a running car is always makeing electricity(everything runs off the alternator) . Just the amperage produced is load sensitive just like the battery. The effect you describe when turning on the headlights isn't the alternator switching on. Its because the headlights recieve power through electrical-mechanical relays. Then the sudden load increase (from maybe 5 amps to as much as 20 amps) boosts the alternators magnetic fields in turn becomeing a load on the engine...then the CPU speeds up the engine idle (which it is near constantly tweeking anyway). Car batteries are 6 cell units of 2.1 volts per cell for an ideal total of 12.6 volts at full charge. the voltage regulator in the alternator is typicly between 13.6 and 14.6 volts all the time. As the engine runs this extra 1-2 volts recharges the battery after the huge drain of haveing started the engine.
The alternator is used instead of a generator due to its size and relative high amperage output. Main weekness is that its AC output is run through a bridged rectifier to produce DC current...which produces lots of waste heat, and makes it a potential resource for cogeneration systems.
Sorry its been my line of work for about two decades now. Not trying to argue, just correct some misconceptions. | |
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| perpetual energy and other promising inventions
Posted: 11/14/2009 2:52:12 AM | Hey Milti
I re-read my post, and re-read your post and as far as I can see, we are saying the same thing. Please read what I wrote and tell me, other than mentioning electrical mechanical relays, we differ. The simplified explanation is that turning on the lights forces the alternator to create electricty, and that puts a load on the motor that is countered by the motor speeding up ever so slightly.
Having had British cars that were 6 volt positive ground electrics by Lucas, the Prince of Darkness, modern alternator systems are space age stuff. I completely rewired a '59 TR3. I started with the running system, then added the charging system, then added the lights and turn signals. When I first decided to do it, I was overwhelmed, but after I got the ignition system done, it all became clear and was easy, but time consuming.
If the only place that there is a possibility of "excess voltage" is the bridged rectifier, that won't produce enough current to power one of these rube goldberg hydrogen producing units, so this "system" would take a drain off the general charging system. I just hate to see people spend money on useless nonsense that doesn't work.
Inflating your tires about 2 lbs more than recomended, a clean air filter, clean fuel filter, and fresh plugs will do wonders for fuel mileage. AND, look up hyper-milage, and you will pick up tips that really do work.
Paul K | |
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