| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/23/2008 7:13:52 PM | | You're clouding the issue with the choice argument. No1 disagrees that it's a choice. The original point was men are hard wired one way regardless of the choice you make. The hard wiring is done long before any man is making a choice. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/23/2008 11:11:15 PM | Well....They are NOT monogamous. They have NEVER been....Nor will they ever be........ I think it's about time....Women....just accept this.....And move on.......All you wonderful women out there...Listen up.....Your men are going to cheat....SOOOO....NOW what are you going to do...????.....Leave them...??? Make them pay...???.... Kill them..???....Let's face it ....we have all wanted to.....
Or , do we.....just move on....and kiss their sorry asses goodbye..????...
Well.....most of us ....Stay.....and wait it out...hoping our men will come back to us......The sad thing is....many do come back......with their tail between their legs...apologetic......telling you everything....YOU have ever wanted to hear........The problem is that.......NOTHING....will ever be the same.......
I don't know what to tell you.....All I know is.....I love my kids......I love my friends.....I love my family....My dog is my best friend right now......I work hard.......I keep busy.......I am the best person I can be....And most of all ...I'm happy.......!!!
Would I like to find a wonderful companion....??? ....ABSOLUTELY..!!! ...And ...I will keep that dream with me for the rest of my life.... | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/23/2008 11:24:04 PM | Monogamy is about marriage not sex. People can be monogamous and still have sex outside their marriage. Marriage is not natural, it is a social convention, a custom, a legal contract.
If the question is whether or not a man is naturally inclined to monogamy the answer must be no, because nature does not incline men to marry. So that leaves the question of whether a man is naturally inclined to have interest in only one sexual partner. The test for that is whether he loses interest in others once he has a partner.
Without the intellectual, social custom of exclusive relationships, men would be happily having sex from woman to woman like bees go from flower to flower, except without the buzzing. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 6:55:47 AM | One word, COMMUNICATION
Idiots (men or women) that cheat lack communication and/or listening skills. To me, cheating is the coward's way out of taking the time to discuss things that might lead to cheating or even the thought thereof.
..while I'm posting anyway, I despise how most assume that if a woman cheats, it's more for emotional reasons. "He's never there for me" or "I don't feel loved anymore". Give me a F-ing break. A relationship with communication, trust and loyalty has a much better chance of surviving than one where its inhabitants merely sit and hope for change rather than trying to achieve it. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 7:18:03 AM | Well I can honestly say that that sort of attitude is as far removed from my personailty as can thankfully be possible! 
But I do sorta understand what you saying coz it's not like I haven't ever heard guys be it either people I know or have known, come out with that sort of riddiculous BS 
Dunno what else to offer up by way of an answer - just some men are dawgs, like you all know eh ladies?!
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 7:56:53 AM |
It's not a "line", which implies it's a lie or a ruse. It's actually a well-established scientific statement. Just because it rubs some the wrong way doesn't mean it's not true.
Which is not to say that nature is always good. It used to be natural for people to die well before the age of 30, but we fixed that.
I think its still under debate & will always be. There are still animals out in the wild that mate for life....so it is not necessarily true in all cases. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:05:33 AM | | well OP men do have a point...biologically speaking the instinct for any male is to spread his genetics for the greatest potential genetic variety to ensure that his genes continue via his offspring. it's Darwinian, and yes, makes perfect sense. however, humans have social structure, form emotional bonds, possess a supposed set of morals, have the ability to reason, and ultimately possess the ability to choose...so biology doesn't override a man's ability to think about what he's doing, he chooses it, and if he chooses to cheat and/or make babies he has no intent or ability to support and care for...well then he's a putz, pure and simple! not exactly the type of guy who i'd like to have mingling with my genes. lol | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:06:50 AM |
kinzeUK wrote: Well I can honestly say that that sort of
attitude is as far removed from my personailty as can
thankfully be possible! But I do sorta understand what
you saying coz it's not like I haven't ever heard guys, be
it either people I know or have known, come out with
that sort of ridiculous BS.
Then why is it that monogamy doesn't seem to pay?
Seems to me men who are open and honest about the fact
that they're dating multiple women have more power,
more social status and tend to be more successful (on average)
with exceptionally desirable women and dating. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:14:16 AM | It's because they have more power, social status, and success that they are dating around with exceptionally desireable women.
These women don't care who else they are dating because they are more than willing to compete for the same man. May the best woman win, if it's even possible with some of these men. Maybe no woman really wins ultimately unless her name is Heather Mills... | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:34:25 AM | . If it was true that men are 'hardwired' to NOT be monogamous, every man.. including your father, would have been unfaithful. While it does in fact occur, not all men are that way and it will never be an acceptable 'excuse' for cheating
i agree with carpe diem
its just a stupid excuse | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:42:46 AM | No no no 98.
Just because we are wired that way doesn't mean we can't curb our natural urges. We fall in love just like women do. And many of us are quite won't to ruin a good thing over an instinctual urge.
I find it hilarious when others try to tell us what we are like. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:48:05 AM | It's actually a well-established scientific statement. Just because it rubs some the wrong way doesn't mean it's not true.
It most absolutely is not. Its hypothesis.
Well if that is the case, then the last two claims are also hypothesis class claims given the same logic. I have included the threads topic to help illustrate what I am driving at here:
Men Claim: "Men are not naturally monogamous"
Woman Counter Argument: Not true. They just use this as an immoral argument to be unfaithful.
Woman Claim: "Women have maternal instinct and a biological clock ".
Men Counter Argument: Not true. This is just an immoral excuse for women to pursue their own dreams and wants (children) without consideration for the man's wants and needs.
Woman Claim: "Women suffer from PMS".
Men Counter Argument: Not true. This is just an immoral statements women use to justify them being a biatch for one week at the month.
I guess we can use the biology argument when it serves our purpose, whether you are a man or a woman. The problem is as follows: Men can empathise with the first claim but not with the other two. Women can not empathise with the first but the latter two. As such, how can you, as a woman, argue against the "monogomous" claim. That has the exact same validity as a man saying "there is no PMS nor do women have a biological clock". Get the point??
Let the flaming begin! | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:59:17 AM |
Your men are going to cheat....SOOOO
Bullsh*t. Men whose brains are ruled by their d*cks maybe.
Unfortunately there are so many desperate women out there who will buy it, so they don't have to make hard choices like asking if they contributed to his straying(using sex as a tool/weapon can backfire big time) and/or dumping an immature skirtchaser.
At one time in ancient history, propagating the species could have been a valid argument. But do you know of any RECENT cases of men being eaten by sabretoothed tigers or trampled to death by woolly mammoths?
Cindy O | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 10:04:28 AM | B.S.
thats what its about... to elaborate, its about trying to make people think all 'men' are created equal.
personally all ive ever really wanted is to be with that one person. and i wouldnt be happy with a million.
and most guys dont even understand that part of me at all. they think its a joke that someone wants to actually be with 1 woman and have kids... yet, they talk the talk and get action. go figure ;)
so, the moral of the story? the things of wich you speak are not men.
and if you believe that crap, you are a desperate fool.
btw, i dont think that part of a person ever really changes. like a dirty armpit, put all the deoderant on it you want but its still a dirty armpit. you can even put it in an expensive suit and teach it to be polite. but its still a dirty armpit....
no offence to those of you with dirty armpits. rock and roll, baby. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 11:32:26 AM | By nature, men are not monogamous. By nature, neither are women.
However, women have less to gain biologically from being non-monogamous, so the tendency to have multiple partners is less.
But that's not the end of the story. Humans also have culture, which modifies behavior to encourage compliance with cultural norms. There are benefits to monogamy (at least serial monogamy) for both men and women, and those can overcome the biological tendencies. These conventions are sometimes weaker for powerful or narcissistic men, and are weaker when the benefits provided within a relationship break down for whatever reason.
Don't forget that cultural conventions in the USA are not typical throughout the world or time - most cultures in the past (and some today) practiced polygyny. Harems, concubines, polygamy, mistresses, etc., are how these manifest. Some Arab sheiks practice this today, and in some Muslim countries it is still accepted even if less common than it may have once been.
When someone says that they are not monogamous by nature, it could either be a simple statement of biological truth with no further implications, or it could mean that they are "just not that into you" enough to make monogamy attractive! | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 11:39:24 AM | | I do not believe it is gender specific, there are plenty of women as well that are incapable of monogamy at various phases of their lives. It's a choice. But, I really believe a man or woman that is in love will be monagamous. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 1:19:51 PM | > ...well then he's a putz, pure and simple! not exactly the type of guy who i'd like to have mingling with my genes.
If such at attitude was sufficiently widespread the trait would disappear from the population -- or already would have disappeared from the population. But it hasn't, so it isn't.
Great points, as usual, HappyGilmore...
What people tend to forget is that during the era in which humans evolved there was about a one in eight (or greater) chance that a woman would die during childbirth. (As recently as 1900 the odds were only one in sixteen.) So what was a guy to do when his nineteen year-old wife died having their third or fourth child? Stop having sex the rest of his life? Anyone who answered "yes" was less likely to be anyone's ancestor than someone who answered "no".
My point is that the idea/ideal of a single mate for life was not even feasible until the entire public health infrastructure was sufficiently developed that it was a real possibility, which evolutionarily speaking occurred only very recently. Before then, people needed a backup system because mortality rates were high compared to today's standards. So it's not all just about men being pigs and trying to spread their genes are widely as possible (the standard mythology); since men died while out killing wildebeasts, women also had to think in terms of alternate strategies.
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 3/24/2008 1:57:11 PM | As long as the posters on this thread continue to use the word "monogamy" as a synonym for "non-cheater," this debate will remain quite frustrating and devisive. A person who opts for non-monogamy can ALSO be a person who never has and never will "cheat."
I personally believe that the only "natural" sexual instict humans (males and females) have is to procreate and, depending on the physical and social environment those particular humans exist in, to protect and nurture their offspring in the most logical (and practical) way to maintain the species.
Monogamy, non-monogamy, polygamy, polyamory, even celibacy are all "social" choices people make - but none of them are "natural" enough to be the "correct" default for every member of a species that's now so vast and varied that survival through reproduction is a smaller issue than survival through avoidance of catastrophe.
And none of those options are particularly difficult to achieve or thrive within on an individual basis, and none equate with fidelity. | |
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