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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/12/2008 7:07:34 AM |
Everyone always has a choice in everything no matter what.
Of course everyone has a choice--sometimes, it is the choice between the bad apple or the rotten pear. Sometimes, it is a choice between staying in a horrendous situation or going out into what that person believes is a hostile world where people are immoral and evil. It is the choice between the proverbial rock and a hard place.
Your opinion on the matter is much too simplistic. You assume that people making choices always know the available options. You assume that they are always mentally and emotionally fit and able to make choices logically and rationally. Saying that the women and children in the compound in Texas had choices is not the same as saying that a person working at Wal-Mart can find another job or stay where he/she is.
Your statement also precludes that physically these women and children were able to leave. What kind of restraints were put upon them? Do you think that if one had tried to leave, the leaders would have opened the doors, given her five dollars for the road, and wished her well? Get real, that's what the whispered conversations on a cell phone were about. That young lady made the choice; she is extremely brave--where is she?
I agree that the shuffling of responsibility upon others is rampant; I also know something else that is rampant: the basic ability of empathy, understanding, mercy, and realizing that sometimes, life's decisions are overwhelming for certain segments of the population. We should avoid blaming victims for their plights when they did not bring the plights upon themselves.
Strip yourselves of who you are, your bravery, your convictions, your strength; instead substitute brainwashing and the other mind control techniques instilled in the women and children (and yes, even the young men) in that compound. Then, put on their shoes, announce you are leaving--or try to get out in the middle of the night--and walk a mile down the road from that compound with no money, no idea where to go, into a world that you think is populated with demons and anti-christs.
Life is seldom as simple as choosing between the white shoes or the black shoes.
The situation in Texas is not about polyamory or polygamy--it is about cruelty and slavery. It is about misused religion wielded like a weapon, and men with god complexes. It is about the basics of what we call "evil" in this society presented in the guise of love and righteousness. It is the epitome of what is wrong with the human race.
Sorry, that is off topic, but I needed to say it. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/12/2008 8:30:23 AM | Thank you David Lewis for giving credit where credit is due regarding post menopausal womens worth to society. I will be one of those soon and the next generation borne by my daughter and her friends will need me desperately not to mention I will be a work horse at work. I just had a chat with my boss who is trying to strategically place me so that I can mentor all the younguns that need to be hired to replace the retirees in my field of technology. There's a lot to learn and I can pass it on.
And thank you for pointing out that I meant children with a good father fare better in life. Of course, it makes common sense to me that a guy would want to stick around to support and protect his offspring, as is eveidenced by all the good dads I know and all the men on this thread saying they want one woman only. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/12/2008 2:09:35 PM |
Everyone always has a choice in everything no matter what.
Of course everyone has a choice--sometimes, it is the choice between the bad apple or the rotten pear. Sometimes, it is a choice between staying in a horrendous situation or going out into what that person believes is a hostile world where people are immoral and evil. It is the choice between the proverbial rock and a hard place.
Your opinion on the matter is much too simplistic. You assume that people making choices always know the available options. You assume that they are always mentally and emotionally fit and able to make choices logically and rationally. Saying that the women and children in the compound in Texas had choices is not the same as saying that a person working at Wal-Mart can find another job or stay where he/she is.
Your statement also precludes that physically these women and children were able to leave. What kind of restraints were put upon them? Do you think that if one had tried to leave, the leaders would have opened the doors, given her five dollars for the road, and wished her well? Get real, that's what the whispered conversations on a cell phone were about. That young lady made the choice; she is extremely brave--where is she?
I agree that the shuffling of responsibility upon others is rampant; I also know something else that is rampant: the basic ability of empathy, understanding, mercy, and realizing that sometimes, life's decisions are overwhelming for certain segments of the population. We should avoid blaming victims for their plights when they did not bring the plights upon themselves.
Strip yourselves of who you are, your bravery, your convictions, your strength; instead substitute brainwashing and the other mind control techniques instilled in the women and children (and yes, even the young men) in that compound. Then, put on their shoes, announce you are leaving--or try to get out in the middle of the night--and walk a mile down the road from that compound with no money, no idea where to go, into a world that you think is populated with demons and anti-christs.
Life is seldom as simple as choosing between the white shoes or the black shoes.
The situation in Texas is not about polyamory or polygamy--it is about cruelty and slavery. It is about misused religion wielded like a weapon, and men with god complexes. It is about the basics of what we call "evil" in this society presented in the guise of love and righteousness. It is the epitome of what is wrong with the human race.
There is always a choice. Life is as simple or as complicated as you want it to make it to be. If you want to view it as a constant struggle, then that will be your experience, if you want to view it as something simpler, that will be your experience. You always choose. Every major religion advocates free will... and it is the true free will that everyone has, not something conditional. After all what would the Creator of the universe possibly need so much from anyone... that suddenly after creating existence there could possibly be something that is "needed" that the Creator couldn't manifest without you? You think anyone could so much as move their fingers without the will of God? Yet even when the people have the opportunity to choose otherwise, they usually don't feel deserving enough for whatever reason, wheather they were taught to believe it from someone else who didn't believe they had a choice... Spending so much time pointing fingers at reasons that have nothing to do with it, saying how they are victim because of their race, gender, culture, religion, etc... We all have the same capabilities as another no matter what. There is no one "better" than another, only those that would convince you that there is so they can have their illusion to cover what they deem as their own "faults"... | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/12/2008 2:23:19 PM | | I believe it depends on the man. Are they wired that way? According to various scientists...and aged-old theories; yes. However, many have EVOLVED and now some actually realize that being that way is indicative of catching many diseases and causing the human race to die off quicker. :( Some have chosen a better lifestyle for themselves. Some still spread their seed everywhere they go...and leave a path of sad and angry females behind them, who are apt to do that to the next guy they meet. :( | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/13/2008 5:42:32 PM | ClassifiedTMI wrote: Only the kind of man who IS
monogamous by nature is MY kind of man.
The multiple dater can go fling about all he wants,
and my lack of desire to vie for him is just that:
a LACK OF DESIRE.
You framed it as a lack of confidence, and I'm just
wondering why, but it seems to be about whether
*you're* attractive as a multiple dater
(who's HONEST about it, of course).
As long as intelligent, charming, confident women keep
posting repetitive, long-winded manifestos explaining how
I'm all wrong for them, I guess I'm not doing too badly. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/14/2008 3:25:42 PM | Straight up, this is hack science. Next up, I will sell you tickets to my airship going to Mars. For free. Problem is, you have to make a stop by "Uranus" on the way for a transfer to another bus.........
It's typical BS. Men are men. Yes, we want sex, yes, most of all the time, but not all the time (since women don't ask men anything, instead, using their vast intelligence to what? what did you say Jimmy? You mean they ASSUME too much?).
Men are fine with monogamy, like females. If you want to use animal species, let's throw in some that are female who happen to have multiple male mates, or others who are STRICTLY monogamous until death.
In other words............I hate to say it kiddies, Hack Genetics is not the end-all answer to every question. Just another "Magic Diet Pill" like Evolution, etc.
Forget it. If a man likes you, he will stay with you. If he stops liking you, he LEAVES you. And, crazy enough, vice versa with women.
Kind of kills the "natural" and "genetic" argument right there.
I do not desire arguments, or constant fighting. Therefore, I will not desire you.
And women, vice versa.
As always kids, remember the reason you fail is because of...........YOU! | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/14/2008 3:55:45 PM | I'm going to put my foot in it by saying this...
I am not monogamous by nature. Now, before you erase this and delet my profile, let me finish.
I grew up with girlfriends. Had a lot of them, but some were really close. Not sexually close, but close. I alwayus felt more comfortable when I was with two or three women, far mroe comfortable than with one. Now, that said,
I do not cheat. I did once. About ten years ago. It destroyed a marriage and I was really sad about it. The girl had her issues, we all do, but she was a great lady. She did not deserve to be treated that way. It took me five eyars to get over what I had done, adn to be honest, I will never be over it, not fully... and the reason is that I incorporated the screwup into myself and spoent years researching, studying and examining myself. My question was this... How can I possibly be a good husband to a lady and expect her to trust me, if I cannot trust myself!
After years of looking insdie myself I came to the conclusion that I was just wired polygynously. This is not to say that I have ot have sex - but that I am happiest when I have more than one lady with me. It can be friendship, mine or hers, and it does not have to be sexual, nor would I allow it to become sexual... which is the second thing I learned...
I can be monogamous by choice. Is it comfortable? Not really. But it is the way it had to be. Polygyny is not accepted in this country. It is not allowed. Women are not raised that way. Which points me to the third thing....
In a poly relationship, the parties trust each other. I mean really trust each other. They have to. The marriage is harder, the responsibilities are more, and their must be a solid structure in place (this means chain of command as well as "places") in order for it to succeed. When things get out of order, it gets messy and ends up destroying itself quickly. The monogamous marriages I've seen are more of a constant power struggle and that is really distasteful to me - and carrying that into polygyny will always lead to disaster.
I've also discovered that many of the polygynous marraiges here in the US (there are about 80,000 of them) are rife with problems. The biggest reason is the plural marrriage is illegal and it's the people that are anti-structure anti-government that tend to marry this way. That in itself means that nowt only do the marraiges not have the benefits of law, but they are unstable from the beginning. How do you report child abuse if you know that you will be arrested if the police get involved? See the problem?
Cheating breaks trust. That is out. A woman that has had her very life threatened by a man that has an affair knows that I mean. It goes to men too. A woman that cheats rips away the very foundation of the relationship. It is nearly impossible to recover, and it can be nearly impossible to fully trust again. So I made a decision. I was going to be in a monogamous or polygynous relationship. But polygyny is illegal. It is OK to date two women, it is ok to sleep with them, but NOT marry them. I have no intentions to create a family then go to ail and be forced to leave it.
Therefore I made the decision to be monogamous.
So when some guy tells you that he is polygous in nature, make sure he is just not saying that he wants to sleep with anyone he wnats and just has no intentions whatsoever of trusting you or allowing you to trust him. This means that one day the calls will stop, and he wants no calls in return. He is done with you. Just like that.
A man that says what I say, that he is polygynous but chooses monogamy and can back up his reasons? Better get to know him, he might be a really trustworthy guy. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/14/2008 4:04:10 PM | Ladies,
Before we started tilling fields and herding ungulates we travelled, we hunted, we gathered. If we wanted to have sex with a woman we were free to just walk up to her, bend her over, satisfy our desire, and walk on down the valley never to be seen again. However disgusting that may be it was natural.
The mention of "nurture" much earlier should be take to more hearts than it apparently has. Good men are capable of convention and being monogamous. Some men prefer it. But as a species to suggest any man is monogamous by nature is with all due respect entirely detached from a reality documented through millenia of civilization. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/14/2008 6:34:11 PM | Prior to 1930 the average marriage was around 5 - 10 years as one of the spouses frequently died. Women died in child birth often. Men didn't have to be monogamous . . . . on the other hand, our primate brethren the Bonobo Chimpanzees, who are the closest to us in physical structure, openly fornicate for pleasure, both male and females. Monogamy doesn't exists in this society only alpha males and females. I'm glad I'm not a chimp this life time.
Therefore, it's only been in recent times that the average marriage can last for many, many years. We are in a new chapter of mankind and society.
E
P.S. I'm an alpha female--quietly. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 4/16/2008 12:15:35 AM | It's actually a well-established scientific statement.
That's pure conjecture and basically nonsense. What scientific evidence? Let's see your citations.
Maybe in animals but certainly not with those possessing a a neocortex.
I keep hearing that men are not meant to be monogamous. That in early times, men would mate with as many woman as possible to 'spread their seed' blah blah blah.....
You keep hearing what? I'm 54 years old, a former professional athlete, cab driver, lifeguard, club bouncer, and now a social scientist and never once have I heard "men are not meant to be monogamous". Not once.
"In early times". wtf does that mean? You mean cave man? I'm sorry this is ridiculous.
larwilliams2:
This is just another pathetic attempt by a woman who couldn't interest a guy and is now upset he is not into her.
I agree. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:57:47 AM |
NoseyNeighbor Said:
now a social scientist and never once have I heard "men are not meant to be monogamous". Not once.
If you haven't even heard this, then you are a piss-poor "social scientist".
Throughout history society has allowed men to have more than one wife, or concubines, or lovers. It's only been very recently in human society that these things have been deemed "wrong" (and even now, only is SOME societies is it considered wrong).
James, Seattle, WAshington, USA, Earth | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 5/13/2008 1:29:17 PM | | It's not only men who are not monogomous by nature. Some of us women aren't either. I could choose to be mongomous if I wanted to (did it succesfully for most of my adult life), but I feel that in doing so, I sacrifice a bit of myself. So, I have a choice and I choose not to be monogomous. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 5/13/2008 1:36:05 PM |
It's not only men who are not monogomous by nature. Some of us women aren't either. I could choose to be mongomous if I wanted to (did it succesfully for most of my adult life), but I feel that in doing so, I sacrifice a bit of myself. So, I have a choice and I choose not to be monogomous.
It's not just "some" women. You could only have one sexual partener in your life if you were monogamous by nature. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:16:25 PM |
Superlizard Said:
It is a cop-out; an excuse.
Just like using the "humans are just animals" excuse.
Um... I hate to break it to you, but we are animals. Many humans like to THINK they are somehow not animals... ABOVE mere "animal" status somehow. We're not.
As for your "it's a cop-out" statement... since we are all HERE on POF and presumably most have been in relationships before, NONE of us are monogamous. At best, some are serial monogamists-- jumping from one "monogamous" relationship to another.
Now, if you want MONOGAMOUS, let's look at our fellow animals, the Geese. GEESE are monogamous... that is, they don't break up and go find other geese because they don't like how their partner leaves the nest in the morning, poops in the living room, or got in late the night before.
If your particular religious faith has it's laws against anything other than death-do-us-part monogamy, then there are A LOT of people going to hell since I'd guess 99% of us here are not widows. And if your "cop-out" comment stems from your religious rules, then I would ask you to keep your religion to yourself and not apply it to those with OTHER beliefs.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:40:30 PM | Just so you know, I'm not here to argue scientific theories and/or assumptions about myself or my beliefs.
I stated my opinion, and I'm leaving it at that... take it or leave it. You don't like it, no sweat off my back.
And for the record, along the topic line (again), myself - I don't make lame-ass excuses for piss-poor behavior. I'm fully responsible for all the decisions I make, and I make changes if I don't like something... after all, I'm the one in charge of my life, and nothing or no one else. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 5/13/2008 3:20:50 PM |
I don't make lame-ass excuses for piss-poor behavior. I'm fully responsible for all the decisions I make, and I make changes if I don't like something.
Your right however if you were monogamous by nature you would not be responsible at all. Get off you high horse. "piss-poor behavior" includes people of all variety. Women leave men, men leave women for a multitude of reasons. But ultimately in your fantasy world the only real good behavior is staying with your partner no matter what happens in the relationship... the only appropriate behavior is monogamous. People are not allowed to change how they feel in that world. Some place I'd rather not be personally. | |
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| What's this Men are not monogamous by nature' line all about?
Posted: 5/13/2008 3:31:16 PM | "Your right however if you were monogamous by nature you would not be responsible at all. Get off you high horse. "piss-poor behavior" includes people of all variety. Women leave men, men leave women for a multitude of reasons. But ultimately in your fantasy world the only real good behavior is staying with your partner no matter what happens in the relationship... the only appropriate behavior is monogamous. People are not allowed to change how they feel in that world. Some place I'd rather not be personally."
I see... since I don't share your opinion, I'm on my "high horse".  | |
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