| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:11:27 AM |
We buy crap we don't need with money we don't have and drive all around town wasting gas doing it
well put excalibur.
and don't foget, that for the most part, that driving is done alone. look around at how many of those big vehicles on the road, made to seat 6 or 8 people, have one lone occupant. how many of those people complaining about sitting in rush hour traffic have made any effort at all at looking into alternatives, such as car-pooling? how many of those suv's that people love so much, ever see actually get used on anything worse than a gravel road? or even see a gravel road?
to those who complain that the chinese are responsible... how much of what you buy is cheap "made in china" crap that is cheaper to throw away than repair? and that would make who responsible for the chinese demand for oil?
and blaming the goverment? who voted them in? how many of you have actually voted recently? considering the voter turnout, both in canada and the usa, close to half of the people b!tching in here have no right to complain about what their government(s) have done.
it is all about supply and demand, as long as people refuse to try and change their habits, the price will keep going up. whining and complaining, isn't going to do it. if you're not willing to change then stfu. | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:13:21 AM | We should drill for our own oil in Alaska.
I am not for trashing the planet, just managing it more wisely.
The environmental movement has passed the point of equilibrium on some fronts and needs to come back a bit.
It is also a no brainer that people need to slow down while driving.
In my fantasy world, I think we should go back to horse and buggy, family, church, community, gardening, etc. | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/9/2008 3:45:45 PM | Well, every one better get used to the idea of paying more for gas/petro. The days of cheap gas/petro are over (unless you live in the middle east). This new gas/petro crisis is nothing like the fuel shortages of the 70's. Back then you didn't have growing nations in the middle of a developement spurt like as with China & India today. There is no surplus on the market from which only North America and Europe are the only biders...
Sure the oil rich nations could open the tap to all the wells they have and send large amounts of oil flooding the market. Yes, that would reduce the price of gasoline/petro down to a degree but there is only so many refineries that can turn the sweet light crude into Gas/Petro. Furthermore, those oil wealthy nations are not likely to do something like that. It would be akin to a person having the only water source in 500 miles and if you didn't resrict the amout you sold then you would be as thristy as they in no time flat. So, don't expect the oil rich nations to give up their only source of income to make the world happy. They will spoon feed it out gentle but cautiously to the world so that they can remain as they are. If they were to pump the holes dry what else would they have to sell the world. Remeber where most of the oil comes from it's not like they have a larger farm belt in that dessert to which raise massive amounts of corn, wheat, rice, etc... They aren't stupid they know the thrump card they have and so do YOU!
One other thing: People often hear about the price of oil per barrel but what most people don't realize is that a barrel of oil quantity is only 42US gallons not the typical 55 US Gallon drum people think of when they think "drum barrels." Furthermore, of that 42 US gallons of oil only about 20 US gallons of that will make Gasoline/Petro give or take a little depending on the refinery methods imployed. So, in effect just alittle less than half of a barrel of oil will make Gas/Petro. You can't make all the oil in that barrel into gasoline/petro it just won't refine any further than that...
It's a spooky situation I know but it's a reality the indutrialized nations must face!
Alcohol fuels are not really a soultion but rather a bandaid, plus a vehicle get worse fuel mileage on alcohol as it would with gasoline. So, even if the cost of it was cheap it would be offset by the fuel mileage reduction as the vechile would require more fuel ups... Also, despite what you may hear most vehicles will not run properly on Alcohol only those that have been modified to burn a blend will function. You can't just put a blend of 15% Gasoline & 85% Alcohol in and expect it to work. All vehicles pre-2000 need extensive modifiaction and so do most post-2000 vehicles. Alcohol eats gaskets, seals, etc, that aren't designed for it's use which most vehicles are not. Plus the injectors need to be larger as well as the fuel/air mixture needs to be modified not to mention the timing curve. Then there is the awful truth that enviromentlist don't like to discuss about alcohol and this is the fact it takes nearly as much fossel fuels to make alcohol as would be caused by the damage of using direct gasoline/petro in a vehicle... Perhaps in the future this will change but currently it really isn't a soultion...
Bio diesel has it's problems too and it only works best in climates that don't get below 70 degrees.
Electric power was how the Automotive industry really got it's start but abandoned it once the internal combustion engine came on the scene. Electric vehicles is a good avenue to explore but we are not quiet there yet. Maybe had the auto industry never gotten away from electrical powered vehicles the world would not be in this mess. They would have been more focused on building better and better electric vehicles over the last 100 years and today we could have been riding around in those vehicles that get 1000 miles per charge with only 10 minutes needed for recharging. However, that's not the way it went and so we start afresh much like when the world had to relearn everything from the darkages all over again. Nevertheless, the electrical vehicle as the world needs it is not here yet. I do like the suggestion that some have alluded too, that being bring back the old tradition of a prize like those awarded during the early days of aviation to inspire people to develop better aircraft. I would believe a 100 million dollar prize would entice the hardest of people to explore building those electric vehicles we all need that the current auto industry won't invest the money into develope.
Once all is said and done the Middle East has nothing to offer the world but it's oil. Once the world no longer needs it how wealthy do you believe that region will become then? Not much grows in a dessert and farmers aren't the best paid people in the world. The world has forgotten the importance of agriculture and those who spend thier lives feeding the world.
People can live without oil but hunger will make an honest man murder... That's something I think we should all think about very closely. | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/9/2008 3:58:11 PM |
and how long is Oil going to last anyway? Forever?? what are your grandkids going to drive? Judge Dread ATV's in Gated Communities??
Wake up!!!!!!!
Anyone else in this thread aware of Peak Oil besides rockwell12?
He's right. We're at the end of cheap oil. Over the next 40 or so years, we'll all but run out of it altogether. The global supply will start to fall pretty soon, and then you'll see REAL price hikes. Or maybe not, because it's likely to cause a global recession (just in the preliminary stages now, with the US leading the way as always) which will destroy demand too, as nobody will have any money to spend on it. Either way, everyone's screwed.
We're not switching to alternatives anywhere near fast enough. You can bet this is going to get very, very messy over the next few years... | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/9/2008 6:56:52 PM |
Anyone else in this thread aware of Peak Oil besides rockwell12?
Peak oil doesn't seem to be a trendy enough topic to discuss on here for some reason. 5 threads on it and only one has more than 17 posts to it. Kinda makes you wonder why no one wants to look at it..
Peak Oil Production - Anyone else heard of it?
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts9495487.aspx
You can bet this is going to get very, very messy over the next few years...
Maybe when it does, by then people will have heard of peak oil...
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 12:09:23 AM | | OP-i think everybody is ignoring the fact that the main reason for the increase is the drop of value of the U.S.dollar in the world market as worldwide demand for gas increases...and wtf does wtf have to do with it? | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 1:54:17 AM | Supply and Demand is not operating properly these days. We have large inventories and consmption of gas has not changed since last year. Meaning that people have been driving less.
What we need is an extra drop in driving and maybe Supply and Demand would return to normacy.
Gas costs $3.15 a gallon here. It was $2.85 last month. | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 7:49:29 AM | | oil is a commodity. the only cats getting rich, are the oil companies...eliminate oil prices floating of NYSE exchanges....set a fixed price to be payed for it, but hey, who are we anyways...besides, with saudi estimatesd of having 1200 billion barrels, and my province of alberta having 1500 billion barrels located in northern alberta oil-sands, recoverable with todays techonogy, and another 3200 billion barrels not able to recover using steam to separate the sand from the oil, but who knows, perhaps it is time US and Canada, with their billions being spent on the war in Iraq, could have built enough refineries, and laid enough pipe, so as the plug could be pulled on the camel jockeys once and for all...Dubai economic fortures are already pegged at 6% of al US assets, | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 9:41:03 AM | Light sweet crude $107 US a barrel today
I barrel of oil =42 US gal
That's $2.55 US per gal of crude
Crude Oil + Refining Process + Retail Sales/Distribution + Taxes = Gas Price
Crude oil -- 57%
Refining the crude oil into gasoline -- 18%
Selling the gasoline at a station -- 11%
Taxes, federal and state -- 20%
Go do the math?
Your looking at Gasoline/Petro hovering at $5.00 US per gal
An average car having a fuel capacity of 15 gal would require a $75.00 investment just to fuel it up... That shocking enough? As for you SUV owners out there with those 40 gal tanks and poor fuel milage better get ready to take out loans when you stop for gas.
(Update it's nearing $108 US a barrel, it was at $107.75 at noon today) | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 7:00:03 PM | 1. DRILL, DRILL, DRILL. Open the refineries that have been closed.
Yes, I know of 1 in good condition in California which is closed.
2. I figured after gas passed the $2.30 range, that those without 1-3 toddlers or handicapped in their cars would GET OUT instead of using the drive-thru at the fast-food places. But it hasn't happened. I hardly ever use the drive-thru (only after hours).
3. Conserving: I'm only taking my dog to the dog park 1 or 2 days per week now.
3. I don't have a particular "feeling" about this. I believe the corporations here could start drilling again.
4. I've been considering getting a scooter. | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 7:18:51 PM | >>>set a fixed price to be payed for it
What if you're an investor, and you end up losing money- do they not matter?
What if you're a transport company, and you end up losing money- do they not matter?
I find it funny you claim your expenses should be protected, meanwhile you're perfectly okay with stealing other peoples property | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 7:42:39 PM | | Sadly, we lost,what I call,the four 'I's,#1.Our Indepnedence.#2.Our Ingenuity.#3.Our Inventiveness. and #4.Our Intelligence.It did NOT happen, overnight! Yes,it wiil be $4,by Memorial Day,if not,sooner. | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 7:43:18 PM | One thing for sure, i won't waste any time waiting for government to find a solution. "We the people" are the answer. The oil embargo in the 70's smacked us in the right direction, but memory was short lived. Each and every person can do things that will help, the net is a great place to find energy saving ideas. It is so simple to lay the blame elsewhere rather than actually doing something. Words come a lot easier than actions. The time and effort wasted in complaining is just that...... wasted ... as is trying to come up with an excuses for inaction. I can think a no logical reason for fuel prices to come down in the longterm, China and India needs will only grow. At least use as part of the equation when buying anything, the energy requirements. The company's that are building quality energy conscious products should be given a look. One look at my profile and you will get a pretty good idea my money and efforts have already been put where my mouth is.   | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 7:51:43 PM | You might be able to make it a fixed price in socialized country but that would be a false vail of reality. The Country would have to make up for the differance for its true value and that money still comes from the citizens, in that situation the price isn't avoided just redirected.
Cycling would help on a personal level as that person would be saving money. However that's not a viable solution for everyone... Car pooling is another effective way to save but it is going to have to get a lot worse before most Americans will make that sacrfice. Maybe when Gas/petro reaches $7 or $8 US a gal. they will come to their senses? When it cost $105.00 Us dollars to fill an average 15 gallon tank, they might start to conserve? I don't think the average American can afford to spend $100 each week on fuel to get to a job that earns them only $240 a week before taxes. Expect to see large volumes of SUV's being traded in for more economical vehicles. I don't believe even the upper middle class is going to like spending $300 US to fill a 40 Gallon SUV each week?
Another thing is of that 42 US gal barrel of oil only about half of it can be converted into Gas/Petro it just won't refine down any further than that.
The price per barrel topped $108 and at closing was only down to $107.90 that's nearly two US dollars more than it was Friday. I would not be surprized at this point to see light sweet crude reach over $110 a barrel sometime this week.
Drill, Drill, Drill isn't going to change a thing. India and China are absorbing all the extra oil being produced and any opening of the tap further will just make those two nations consume more. Cheap Gas is at an end and I don't see oil dropping below$99 a barrel in the foreseeable future... | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 8:03:54 PM | I think we will have to take up communtiy living, working and shopping and socialising in a small area, to keep everyday travel in our means, share the costs with others when travelling to work, we are being bled dry in every way possible,
It has become cheaper to fly to some areas than to drive now and that is a real turn around ( an overnight drive vs a one to two hour flight for a third of the fuel expense)
Luxuries should go up and be taxed heavily and that should bring a tax cut to fuel, electricity and water........
who knows where this headed......... | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 8:54:38 PM | With record profits being reported, doesnt it seem like we all are g etting ripped off in the worst way? what if we as a country chose to not buy gas at (this is random) Exxon, nobody buys gas at Exxon for months and months until every gas station goes under, then we start on Texaco, nobody buys gas at Texaco and watch them go under, then Mobile, then by the time we got to Shell or Tetco I bet they would lower the gas prices. Have you seen what the profits are building?
I think it is going to take $4 a gallon gas before we as a country get mad enough to fight back. There is a group organizing to start this and I found it when I was looking at presidential candidates, it was on the ron Paul website.. starting 4/15/
good luck | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/10/2008 9:08:42 PM | London England,
Price for gas when converted to Gallons and U.S. dollars.
8 BUCKS A GALLON.
So, chill out. If you don't drive a motorcycle or 4 (or less) cylinder car, your just going to have to pay for it.
But if you think we have it bad, just drive around in Europe.
Why do you think that they have better public transportation than we do?? | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/11/2008 6:25:03 AM | If you don't drive a motorcycle or 4 (or less) cylinder car, your just going to have to pay for it.
Well you still have to pay for it despite having a more fuel efficent vehicle... Besides there's some cars that get better fuel milage than motorcycles. Those Toyota Hybrids and Honda's for example do as well as many motorcycles. However, the car I was most impressed with was the VW Lupo (discontinued) sold only in Europe did extremely well fuel wise (Not the most attractive looking vehicle I ever saw but compromises have to be made I suppose)...
When American's are paying $8 bucks a gallon to fill a 15 gallon tank = $120, then they might feel enough of a pinch to change their habits.
I don't see a real reason to gripe about the price of fuel but a healthy discussion to resolve the energy policy in the States does deserve discussion.
Price per Barrel briefly reached $109 this tuesday morning but is still well above the $108 mark at $108.43 at this writing.
Oil per barrel was selling for $87 bucks back in Jan. and has risen by $22 bucks in basically 6 weeks. That's in effect is a $3.30 rise each week and at that rate we may be looking at $112 per barrel by next week? | |
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| I work offshore!
Posted: 3/11/2008 7:45:41 AM | | Yeah it's a bunch of crap, we have more in researve now than ever!, and we the employees out away from our family's Producing the oil,and bringing it too shore so the executives can make record profits ,make no more than we have before , we the blue collar workers HAVE NOT RECIEVED PAY INCREASES< but the people sitting their asses in the office are getting rich huh!!!! SO YES WHY IS OIL SO MUCH WHEN IT COST NO MORE TO PRODUCE IT???????? Any good lawyers wanna sue em? TO me it is a bunch of theives getting rich while the poor get poorer!!!!! | |
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| I work offshore!
Posted: 3/11/2008 7:55:00 AM |
Yeah it's a bunch of crap, we have more in researve now than ever!, and we the employees out away from our family's Producing the oil,and bringing it too shore so the executives can make record profits ,make no more than we have before , we the blue collar workers HAVE NOT RECIEVED PAY INCREASES< but the people sitting their asses in the office are getting rich huh!!!! SO YES WHY IS OIL SO MUCH WHEN IT COST NO MORE TO PRODUCE IT???????? Any good lawyers wanna sue em? TO me it is a bunch of theives getting rich while the poor get poorer!!!!!
Good point!
We throw drug dealers in jail that stand on street corners selling their addictive products. How's that any different than the local Mobil or Exxon on every street corner selling their addictive products? (Pun intended) | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/11/2008 10:39:21 AM | As there are approx four litres in a gallon, $4 a gallon works out to be $1 per litre. Which is much cheaper than the $1.13 per LITRE that most fuel companies are charging in Manitoba.
Greedy Oil Companies!!! Darn them all to Heck!! | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/11/2008 2:52:10 PM | Hey! This explains why I was abruptly contacted today by someone with whom I have nothing in common (zero - zip - nada) except a postal code. He must have filled his tank, and said to himself, "self, gotta find a local babe." (Locally the pumps jumped about 20 cents today. Good thing I'm not planning any distance fun this weekend.)
For me, it means replacing a busted brake cable on one of my city bikes (the pedal-powered kind) so that I can ride more.
For my new friend on the opposite side of the state (you know who you are!), can I interest you in a webcam?
Seriously, I was car-free during and right after undergrad. Will have to start riding to work again. (They don't like it, so this will redouble my efforts to find a rewarding, sustainable job closer to home.)
For those considering a bicycle...have the bike shop install a rear rack, and sell you some "commuter baskets."
------- __o
---- _`\<,_
--- (*)/ (*) | |
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| $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 3/11/2008 4:03:12 PM | How about when gas hits $4.25 or $4.50 or %5.00 a gallon. Until there is a reasonable alternative you have to pay at any price. You have to pay your mortgage, your car, to eat. Only three companies refine the gas and they do not compete against each other. Ethanol costs more to produce, more to buy, and you travel a shorter distance. Hybrids do not work over about 70km/hr and flip back to the gas engine. Diesels converted to run on grease sound interesting but not used enough.
There are no options and they know in the end you'll complain but still pay any price they wish to charge. In Canada we are a Net exporter of oil yet pay a higher price than in the US?
Try $1.09 a Litre = $4.12 CDN when the CDN dollar is internationally higher than the US dollar currently. Upset but forced to live with it....
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