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 Author Thread: $4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/16/2008 7:05:52 PM

As you may have noticed, all those military vehicles are in action right now, not sitting in storage. I wonder what all that increased usage is doing to oil demand...probably not a big chunk of where all that oil goes, but it's gotta be something...


Did some quick research on the numbers :



Wed., April. 2, 2008

WASHINGTON - Think you're being gouged by Big Oil? U.S. troops in Iraq are paying almost as much as Americans back home, despite burning fuel at staggering rates in a war to stabilize a country known for its oil reserves.

Military units pay an average of $3.23 a gallon for gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, some $88 a day per service member in Iraq, according to an Associated Press review and interviews with defense officials. A penny or two increase in the price of fuel can add millions of dollars to U.S. costs.

The U.S. military, through its Defense Energy Support Center, buys fuel on the open market, paying from $1.99 a gallon to as much as $5.30 a gallon under contracts with private and government-owned oil companies. The center then sets a fixed rate for troops, currently $3.51 a gallon for diesel, $3.15 for gasoline, $3.04 for jet fuel and $13.61 for a high-octane fuel used mostly in unmanned aerial vehicles.

Kuwait does grant substantial subsidies, but they cover only about half the fuel used by the U.S. in Iraq. And the discount is eaten up by the Energy Support Center's administrative costs and fluctuations in the market.

Overall, the military consumes about 1.2 million barrels, or more than 50 million gallons of fuel, each month in Iraq at an average $127.68 a barrel. That works out to about $153 million a month.

Historically, figures are astounding
In World War II, the average fuel consumption per soldier or Marine was about 1.67 gallons a day; in Iraq, it's 27.3 gallons, according to briefing slides prepared by a Pentagon task force established to review consumption.

The Pentagon's demand for fuel in Iraq has had little if any effect on global oil prices. Frank Verrastro, director of the energy and national security program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said the military's use of 1.2 million barrels a month — or roughly 40,000 barrels a day — represents a small chunk of the 86 million barrels demanded each day on the global market.

When Taylor pressed Pentagon and embassy officials on the matter, he was told Kuwait was actually offering a rare discount. Unlike other oil-rich allies, Kuwait is estimated to have saved the U.S. government $1.2 billion in four years, from 2002 to 2006, U.S. Embassy officials told the congressman in a Jan. 3 letter.

Under the current agreement, the Kuwait-owned company supplies 7,000 gallons per day of free fuel to U.S. forces operating inside Kuwait. For troops in Iraq, Kuwait offers 860,000 gallons of jet fuel a day at less than half the market price. This discounted fuel represents more than half the fuel the U.S. uses in Iraq each day.

The rest of the fuel — about 100,000 to 200,000 gallons a day — is sold to the U.S. military at market rate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23922063/


So it seems it has no real impact on overall market price, based on the volume.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that a deal should be made with the Iraqi government to get oil at cost, or at least a cut rate ?
 Beaugrand®™©

Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 202
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/16/2008 7:28:06 PM

I am not here to America-bash, but with 2/3 of adult Americans now clinically obese (that's double what it was 20 years ago), and consuming as a country 70% or more of the energy used in the world each year, at some point habits are going to have to change, aren't they ?


It's actually 26%.


Even a Little Helps a Lot
"Even a modest weight loss of 5-10% of body weight decreases blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugars," says Dr. Zebrack. Her advice? Basic common sense. "A combined therapy has proven to be most effective for weight loss: dietary therapy, physical activity, and behavioral changes." She recommends first seeing your health care provider for an assessment. He or she can tell you how much, if any, weight you need to lose, as well as help you set goals and make a plan. Your provider may also have you see a dietician who can help determine your daily calorie requirements for weight loss.

"Regardless of the composition of your diet, the primary predictor of weight loss is calorie balance - in other words, calories eaten versus calories burned," says Dr. Zebrack. "Current recommendations of the American Heart Association, National Institute of Health and American Dietetic Association say that the composition of your diet should be about 30% or less fat, about 15% protein and about 55% carbohydrates." As far as fad diets go, Dr. Zebrack cites several reasons to avoid them. Many programs are difficult to maintain, lack basic nutritional requirements such as fiber, iron and calcium, and are not supported by any national health organizations. "We don't know the long-term effects of extreme diets," Dr. Zebrack emphasizes, "and we need to look toward life-long, healthy dietary changes, not a quick fix."
 NorseViking869

Joined: 3/23/2006
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/16/2008 7:55:50 PM

You ARE being sarcastic, right?! PLEASE tell us you are!!!! Because anybody who seriously cannot see the relationship has got a serious problem with their perception (or rather, lack thereof) of reality!!
How can obesity and consumption of any sort NOT be linked?! As "boblite" noted, the common thread is GLUTTONY, which is epidemic in the North American mindset. Anyone who has trouble with the link between obesity and over-consumption of energy need only remember the following term:
DRIVE-THRU

nuff said.


^^^^This is assuming that all people who are obese are retards too. I do not see the corolation as I am what some might call obese but I am one of the people who have been trying to "GET OFF THE GRID" as it were.

Yes there are some obese people who make excuses and would rather drive than walk ( which would alieviate both problems) ..however there are many like me that did not get this way by eating or lack of exercise. I got like this after a car accident ( not my fault I was hit by a drunk driver) .

Anyways, I hardly drive when I can avoid it. I have great stores and restraunts with in walking distance and an atm in my neiborhood. I only really have to drive to work or when I go out on a date.

This is why 4 dollar gass is a problem, it is effecting those that have limited or even eliminated their drivng. It effects those ( like me) who limited their driving to a minumum, to not be able to make a profit off of some jobs ( negating the point of working). The oil costs have also caused food prices to raise ( effecting everyone who drvies or chooses not too).

Not everyone over consumes gas like they do food, many of us need what little we use just to make ends meet.

The problem is we have never had any valid options ( and Hybrids are a joke...They cause people to drive more negating the point of saving fuel) to the internal combustion engine. Electric cars failed, The only good aplication is by TESLA MOTORS ( got a spare $100,000.00)

We have solar and wind power and deisel. A car with solar could also use the wind that moves thru it to move turbines to charge the car as well and would be betteter than electric.

The thing is we had the technology 35 years ago ( read popular science and popular mechanics), the same time we had the first OPEC oil crisis. If we had the tecnology why havent these cars or any compnaies oput such a vehicle on the market..Cause of BIG OIL and greed..not gluttony of the masses.
 Beaugrand®™©

Joined: 3/24/2008
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:10:36 PM

We have solar and wind power and deisel. A car with solar could also use the wind that moves thru it to move turbines to charge the car as well and would be betteter than electric.
Those turbines would require energy to charge the battery, much less efficient than charging directly from solar panels. Current solar cell technology would require a solar array the size of the roof of a small house to power even a very small car. Solar powered cars may be a reality in the future, but with current technology (no pun intended), they wouldn't be practical.
 NorseViking869

Joined: 3/23/2006
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:24:27 PM

Those turbines would require energy to charge the battery, much less efficient than charging directly from solar panels. Current solar cell technology would require a solar array the size of the roof of a small house to power even a very small car. Solar powered cars may be a reality in the future, but with current technology (no pun intended), they wouldn't be practical.


That is why I said both would be used in tandum not seperate.
 Beaugrand®™©

Joined: 3/24/2008
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:32:03 PM
You need energy to move the car, the turbines would add aerodynamic drag to the vehicle, requiring more energy to run them- basically, you'd be running the turbines by pushing the car through the air. Not very efficient at all, you lose more than you could possibly gain.

Don't take my word for it- build a prototype yourself. Buy the solar panels, mount them on an electric vehicle, stick the turbines on and measure the results. Several days of sunlight should get you enough charge to drive a few miles; try it with and without the turbines and you'll find the turbines cost you a great deal of efficiency.

I've been working with small, efficient vehicles for several years, I founded the Yahoo Cabin Scooters group, and we hear this scheme every few months. It just doesn't work, but feel free to determine this for yourself.
 NorseViking869

Joined: 3/23/2006
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/18/2008 12:58:31 PM
^^^^^The issue with why the turbines havent worked on this very old idea is that all the inventers were seeking imediate gain from said turbines to try and circumvent the law of conservation of energy. The turbines do not have to have a small gear to torque ration they could have a higher one like that of modern electric guitar tuners(42 and 50-1 turning ratios on the high end tuners.) urbines werent going to push air thru the car that wasnt their designed pourpose. The car does that wll by it self thru it's own aero dynamics. The turbines are only another set of dynamos. Infact the wheels or the diferctials can also be dynamos but now we are totally getting off topic...All I porposed was an old Idea ( not mine...never said it was) and give it a new spin. I know the idea is nothing new and had been published over 35 years ago.

The problem is that gas will continue to go up sicne peak production has already been meet but peak uses have continued to go up. We have a war that is eating up oil reserves, and if we leave the area, as much as we want too, Iran is poised and so are other nations to take over the war ravaged regeon for it's oil. These things are continuing to drive oil prices and we the consumers are the most hardly hit.

Do not say it is due to overconsumption as no one has come up with a feesable method to do with out oil. Not every one can live by the beach... you fgonna tell those people to stay home....Not everyone can live near their fave realatives...want them to never show up for the holidays and such? Unless we come up with a feesable cheap, safe alternative to oil that also screws up others plans for oil...then we are looking at very dark days ahead.
 Border Collie

Joined: 4/23/2008
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 2:35:14 PM
I think I wish we had somewhere in the region of four dollars a gallon.

Over in the UK our government screw us for tax on petrol and diesel.

Approx 4.5 lts to a gallon. Approx 1.96 US dollars to the UK pound
(dont blame me I just live here I dont make the rules!!)

We are currentley paying (depending where you buy your fuel) approx £1.14 a litre.
That works out at around about $8 a gallon (give or take a few cents).

Jesus in a hand basket I wish we had your prices on motor fuel!! LOL!!
 mr internet

Joined: 5/10/2008
Msg: 209
$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 2:45:18 PM
We drive farther. Your whole country would fit between home and work. Ours is a country of sprawling cities connected by vast expanses of expanded vastness.. It also take more gas to drive on the proper side of the street, but we think it's worth it.
 Pli_Darkflame

Joined: 1/24/2008
Msg: 210
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 2:51:05 PM
You're complaining about $4/gallon? That's only $1.00 a Litre.

It's $1.30 a Litre (or $5.20 a gallon) here in Canada. Stop complaining.
 Apologist~D.A

Joined: 2/28/2008
Msg: 211
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 2:53:05 PM
What do I think?
Ive had to sell my car and have begun using public transportation due to the high cost of fuel. As a single mother/student, I barely could afford gas when it was cheaper, and now there is no way in h@ll that I could afford the luxury of owning and driving my own vehicle. Id love to boost about how I am rebelling against the price hike, but in all reality, Ive had no choice but to discontinue to purchase gas directly.
 ColonelIngus

Joined: 9/16/2007
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 3:40:31 PM
Boo freakin' hoo!

I wish gas was $10 a gallon. It would be worth it to get more of the riff-raff off the roads so the rest of us could drive in pleasure and peace without worrying that some idiot with a cell phone grafted to their ear was gonna smack into us.
 NorseViking869

Joined: 3/23/2006
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 4:52:07 PM

Boo freakin' hoo!

I wish gas was $10 a gallon. It would be worth it to get more of the riff-raff off the roads so the rest of us could drive in pleasure and peace without worrying that some idiot with a cell phone grafted to their ear was gonna smack into us.


Unless your name is rockafeller, I do not think anyone would be on the road if it takes a $100.00 average fill up every time just to go out and make ends meet and put food on the table. Spoken like a true facist.


I for one am probably a better driver than you are. You know that the moajority of people on the roads arent riff raff, they are going to work, too the store and away for the weekend like everyone should do from time to time. I have to commute ( no local jobs in my area). Can not afford to move. I have to commute just to put food on my table and pay off my bills.

if gas becomes $10 bucks a gallon...You will be more screwed than just at the pump buddy. Food and services too will go up. Not only that forget about cheap mail and postage...Forget about cheap first class...foprget about anything you reaslly care for ..I sure hope someone syphons your gas at night.
 Steven02151

Joined: 2/17/2008
Msg: 214
$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 6:46:38 PM
It will take $4 and more for people to begin changing their habits, but we are stuck with an awful lot of suburbs, inefficient engines, etc. for a long time and there will be suffering.

This could have all been avoided back in Carter's time when we had the gas crisis then, we were on our way to making some changes and then Reagan undid it all.

Just think, though, old Ronnie made us all feel so warm and fuzzy with his quips, though, didnt he? Here, boys, have a nice, tall, cool glass of ..........piss.
 Beaugrand®™©

Joined: 3/24/2008
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/20/2008 7:46:16 PM

Do not say it is due to overconsumption as no one has come up with a feesable method to do with out oil.
It's largely due to overconsumption. No one has come up with a feasible method to do without oil. Unless we do something fairly quickly, we're screwed. We are looking at dark days ahead.

The bit about turbines and dynamos and guitar tuning is too incomprehensible for me to follow; it really doesn't make sense. Adding "turbines" in any configuration will simply increase aerodynamic drag. At best, it could augment regenerative braking, >>"if"<< the "turbines" are faired inside the body, and the inlets only opened for braking; but good aerodynamics, lowering the coefficient of drag (Cd), would give a better gain.
 VeddiVeddiVixxen

Joined: 3/27/2007
Msg: 216
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/22/2008 4:47:24 PM
It's criminal. Look at the profits of the oil companies. Also, look at the cost of a gallon of gas in Saudi Arabia... .45/gal.
 Beaugrand®™©

Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 217
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/22/2008 4:51:00 PM
Saudi gas is heavily subsidized. They can afford to sell it to their citizens at a loss, we're the ones subsidizing it.
Oh, you didn't know that?
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
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Posted: 5/23/2008 3:04:00 PM
An interesting article , re gas prices and the reasons behind them.


Then why do prices still rise?

There is growing evidence that the recent speculative bubble in oil which has gone asymptotic since January is about to pop.

Late last month in Dallas Texas, according to one participant, the American Association of Petroleum Geologists held its annual conference where all the major oil executives and geologists were present. According to one participant, knowledgeable oil industry CEOs reached the consensus that "oil prices will likely soon drop dramatically and the long-term price increases will be in natural gas."

Just a few days earlier, Lehman Brothers, a Wall Street investment bank had said that the current oil price bubble was coming to an end. Michael Waldron, the bank's chief oil strategist, was quoted in Britain's Daily Telegraph on Apr. 24 saying, "Oil supply is outpacing demand growth. Inventories have been building since the beginning of the year.”

In the US, stockpiles of oil climbed by almost 12 million barrels in April according to the May 7 EIA monthly report on inventory, up by nearly 33 million barrels since January. At the same time, MasterCard's May 7 US gasoline report showed that gas demand has fallen by 5.8%. And refiners are reducing their refining rates dramatically to adjust to the falling gasoline demand. They are now running at 85% of capacity, down from 89% a year ago, in a season when production is normally 95%. The refiners today are clearly trying to draw down gasoline inventories to bid gasoline prices up. ‘It’s the economy, stupid,’ to paraphrase Bill Clinton’s infamous 1992 election quip to daddy Bush. It’s called economic recession.

The May 8 report from Oil Movements, a British company that tracks oil shipments worldwide, shows that oil in transit on the high seas is also quite strong. Almost every category of shipment is running higher than it was a year ago. The report notes that, "In the West, a big share of any oil stock building done this year has happened offshore, out of sight." Some industry insiders say the global oil industry from the activities and stocks of the Big Four to the true state of tanker and storage and liftings, is the most secretive industry in the world with the possible exception of the narcotics trade.

Goldman Sachs again in the middle

The oil price today, unlike twenty years ago, is determined behind closed doors in the trading rooms of giant financial institutions like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank or UBS. The key exchange in the game is the London ICE Futures Exchange (formerly the International Petroleum Exchange). ICE Futures is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Atlanta Georgia International Commodities Exchange. ICE in Atlanta was founded in part by Goldman Sachs which also happens to run the world’s most widely used commodity price index, the GSCI, which is over-weighted to oil prices.

As I noted in my earlier article, (‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’), ICE was focus of a recent congressional investigation. It was named both in the Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations' June 27, 2006, Staff Report and in the House Committee on Energy & Commerce's hearing in December 2007 which looked into unregulated trading in energy futures. Both studies concluded that energy prices' climb to $128 and perhaps beyond is driven by billions of dollars' worth of oil and natural gas futures contracts being placed on the ICE. Through a convenient regulation exception granted by the Bush Administration in January 2006, the ICE Futures trading of US energy futures is not regulated by the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, even though the ICE Futures US oil contracts are traded in ICE affiliates in the USA. And at Enron’s request, the CFTC exempted the Over-the-Counter oil futures trades in 2000.

So it is no surprise to see in a May 6 report from Reuters that Goldman Sachs announces oil could in fact be on the verge of another "super spike," possibly taking oil as high as $200 a barrel within the next six to 24 months. That headline, "$200 a barrel!" became the major news story on oil for the next two days. How many gullible lemmings followed behind with their money bets?

Margin rules feed the frenzy

Another added turbo-charger to present speculation in oil prices is the margin rule governing what percent of cash a buyer of a futures contract in oil has to put up to bet on a rising oil price (or falling for that matter). The current NYMEX regulation allows a speculator to put up only 6% of the total value of his oil futures contract. That means a risk-taking hedge fund or bank can buy oil futures with a leverage of 16 to 1.

We are hit with an endless series of plausible arguments for the high price of oil: A "terrorism risk premium;" “blistering” rise in demand of China and India; unrest in the Nigerian oil region; oil pipelines' blown up in Iraq; possible war with Iran…And above all the hype about Peak Oil. Oil speculator T. Boone Pickens has reportedly raked in a huge profit on oil futures and argues, conveniently that the world is on the cusp of Peak Oil. So does the Houston investment banker and friend of****Cheney, Matt Simmons.

As the June 2006 US Senate report, The Role of Market Speculation in Rising Oil and Gas Prices, noted, "There's a few hedge fund managers out there who are masters at knowing how to exploit the peak oil theories and hot buttons of supply and demand, and by making bold predictions of shocking price advancements to come, they only add more fuel to the bullish fire in a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy."

Will a Democratic Congress act to change the carefully crafted opaque oil futures markets in an election year and risk bursting the bubble? On May 12 House Energy & Commerce Committee stated it will look at this issue into June. The world will be watching.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9042

Global Research Associate F. William Engdahl is author of A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order (PlutoPress), and Seeds of Destruction: The Hidden Agenda of Genetic Manipulation. (Global Research, available at www.globalresea


Again :


Through a convenient regulation exception granted by the Bush Administration in January 2006, the ICE Futures trading of US energy futures is not regulated by the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, even though the ICE Futures US oil contracts are traded in ICE affiliates in the USA. And at Enron’s request, the CFTC exempted the Over-the-Counter oil futures trades in 2000.

And refiners are reducing their refining rates dramatically to adjust to the falling gasoline demand. They are now running at 85% of capacity, down from 89% a year ago, in a season when production is normally 95%. The refiners today are clearly trying to draw down gasoline inventories to bid gasoline prices up.


Add to that the rather interesting concept that US refineries are actually importing oil, refining it into diesel , and then EXPORTING it to Europe - for higher profit.

At the same time, the oil companies CUT production, instead of increasing it (as they would normally do in the summer period. Those oil companies tie straight back to the Republicans , and McCain - the largest recipient of oil company money in Congress.

A Republican administration exempted the oil future trade, at Enron's request.

Follow the trail, and it leads right back to the Republicans.


Money, its a gas.
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think Ill buy me a football team.

Money, get back.
Im all right jack keep your hands off of my stack.
Money, its a hit.
Dont give me that do goody good bull++++.
Im in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a lear jet.



ExxonMobil has made pre-tax profits of $164 billion on sales of $369.5 billion.

Exxon Mobil, the largest oil company, reported at the start of this month a record 2007 profit of $40.6 billion, earnings that trounced any other company. Royal Dutch Shell reported the largest earnings of any company in Britain, at about $31 billion.




Terry Macalister
The Guardian,
Friday May 2 2008

Exxon sees production slump by 5.6%

Pressure on ExxonMobil increased yesterday when it disappointed investors with a lower-than-expected set of quarterly earnings as its overall oil and gas production slumped by 5.6%.

Just 24 hours after the board was roundly criticised by members of the founding Rockefeller family, Exxon reported a 17% increase in profits compared with a year ago. The $10.89bn (£5.5bn) net income figure, worth £2.7m an hour, was bolstered by a 70% increase in US crude prices, but Exxon's oil output was cut after some of its assets were seized by Hugo Chávez, the president of Venezuela, and it was hit by quota effects in Opec countries.

Profits were also tempered as margins to produce petrol plummeted, with refiners struggling to push through higher crude costs to customers. First-quarter petrol prices rose only 33% year-on-year in the US, less than half the rise in the price of crude.

It was the second biggest quarterly profit in US corporate history, behind the $11.66bn Exxon posted in the last three months of 2007, but many analysts had been predicting the company would go on to break new records.


Production slumps, and oil prices rise ? Surprise, surprise.
 NorseViking869

Joined: 3/23/2006
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/24/2008 6:46:14 PM

The bit about turbines and dynamos and guitar tuning is too incomprehensible for me to follow; it really doesn't make sense.


Forgive me if I say "WTF"...Hard to follow???

First off I was using the guitar tuners an example, not as somthing to be used in any way shape or form in the designe of a car. i was mearly stating thsat dynomos do not need to have an extreme turning ration ( i.e 1000-1 ration) to be able to function. ( of corse ther is going to be drag. That was not the point. I am not talking about propultion but generating power. Since we are talking electric...Dynamos are need, but lets call them what they are in a regular car since you seem so dence. The alternator is a dynamo. It takes the energy of the cranked engine to keep the batter charged..follow me. Wind energy is wasted in any car. it goes past the car, thru the car and does nothing but cause drag...AS IS. Why do you think more often than not car companies make cars that are more areodynamic ( unlike cars like the Scion xb mini van)

What I was saying is that somehow they need to find a way to harness even a percentage of the power of the wind that comes into contact with every car. Wind milss do not have extreme turning ratios and they create more power than solar, so why not utilize some of that in a car. one or two is all you need and what little drag it causes would be circumvented by the power restored to the batteris via not only the wind alternators but also maybe some in other devices on the car that need to turn by nature of the beast ( I. E. the wheels)
 Beaugrand®™©

Joined: 3/24/2008
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:53:50 PM
First, you need to learn to spell "design," "ratio," "course," propulsion," "needed," and "dense." Then proofread twice before you send.
Next, learn proper grammar, especially the use of punctuation.
People won't give your ideas another glance if you can't write or spell properly.
You also need to learn some automotive design jargon.

It takes energy to make the car roll down the road, even without air resistance, because of friction from the tires and the wheel bearings.
Moving through the air creates drag.
This takes more energy to overcome drag than just overcoming friction from the tires and bearings.
Smooth car shapes make less drag, square car shapes make more drag.
Your plan to use wind turbines to recapture energy from the car passing through the air would create even MORE drag.
This would take even more energy to push the car, since you have increased drag even more with the turbines.
You not only must overcome friction from the tires on the road and the wheel bearings, but also the drag created by moving the car through the air, and also the drag produced by the turbines as they spin the "dynamos."
If the turbines actually do work to turn "dynamos" to make electricity they WILL PRODUCE MORE DRAG. If they don't produce drag they aren't working.
Has that sunk in yet? Whatever means you use to propel the car will have to work harder to turn the turbines. The "wind" is produced by pushing the car through the air. Adding turbines makes it harder to push the car through the air, PERIOD. The "wind" rushing past the car did not come free, it had to be produced by the car's engine pushing the car through the air. While it may seem as though the air is rushing past the car, in reality it's the car rushing through the air, which is, usually, more or less "stationary."

From a design point of view it makes more sense to make the car more aerodynamic than to add power-robbing turbines.
This is done by making the car smoother (closer to a "teardrop" shape is a good approach), reducing the size of the frontal area, removing things that project into the air stream (like mirrors, antennas, wipers, etc), smoothing out the underside of the car, use the narrowest (higher aspect ratio, 80 or 90 series instead of 50 or 60 series) tires that will do the job.
You may think you have come across a novel new approach, but you haven't and it isn't.
It wouldn't work, BUT:
As I said before, if you really think it's a worthwhile project, DO IT.
Spend some of your time and money and put together a "proof of concept" model.

Google "California Commuter," "EcoModder," or "Aerocivic." These guys have made some real advances in "shadetree engineering."
 musicfan1980

Joined: 3/23/2008
Msg: 221
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:29:02 AM
It's terrible. I live 10 minutes outside of Chicago & we have the highest gas prices in the country.
 navylcdr

Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 222
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:56:59 AM
Besides the obnious supply and demand issueswhich i spart of normal economics, The largest driver of the rise crude oil is tthese two factors. ! OIl is traded or valued in Us dollars,,hence the weaken dollar vs the world monetery market is part of the rise,,The 2nd otherfactor is And the largest percentage thus far is oil and natrual gas speculation by the world stock and commonidity exchanges,,
On another note we have been forwarned of this crisis for at least the last 20 years, Countrys like Germany took heed of this and have invested in there inferstructure
For example the government and power companys have to buy excess power from home and buisness pwners wfrom electric generated by solar , wind , and hydro electric plants/farms..Hence ibn a 10 year period has accounted for almost 20 percent of all electric needed by the country,, Also germany os investing in addind hydrogen stations/pumps and the largest gas staion chain in germany,,BMW already has hydrogen cars ion the road there,,Germanys set goal is to have 50% of all autos using hydrogean fuel cells in the next 10 years,,
SO where was our politicians ans us the american citizens during the last 20 years..Its easy to blame the auto companys,,But they also to make a profit have to react to market demand,,If every american made better fuel economy their # 1 priority on the purchase of avehicle the industry would have to respond,,
 xXx_Marilyn_xXx

Joined: 12/2/2007
Msg: 223
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 6/23/2008 4:14:43 AM
Yes although I was referring to what we all have to fork out from our pockets at the pump.

Diesel in the UK is now at an astronomical cost of £1.29 per LITRE and rising weekly.
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 224
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 6/23/2008 12:36:05 PM
There is NO OIL SHORTAGE that’s no like in ZERO, we are being mislead to believe this fairy tale, the increase in price is due to market oil speculators and to an amendment sneaked into law that allows them to trade in the dark.

Our elected public servants know it have known it and are just now starting to talk about closing the loop hole in the law that has let this happen, they should all be removed for incompetence or for complicity to commit fraud.

If you are having a hard time believing what you are reading look it up do a search put in oil shortage, traders, ICE we are being played by the people we have put in office to represent us



[QUOTE] A hedge fund manager and a top adviser to oil companies said Monday they believe oil prices could quickly fall by half if new regulatory changes limiting the role of speculators were adopted. [/QUOTE]

This is all over the news even the premier of Saudi Arabia has stated that their is no oil shortage, you can believe what you want but we have been being misinformed by our own government, our economy is in serious jeopardy and the future we should be leaving to our children is being stolen by the people we have elected as public servants
 irishgal2312

Joined: 5/27/2008
Msg: 225
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$4 a gallon gas? WTF? What do you think?
Posted: 6/23/2008 5:44:01 PM
I think it took Americans a long time to think about conserving...anything.
We overindulge in food and gasoline, we are a nation of consumers.
We have to drive the biggest cars, trucks, SUV's, Hummers, and now
this may be a wake up call...get your butts out there and walk, bicycle,
exercise. Take mass transit where available. Stop jumping in the car
just to go a few blocks to school or a store. If you think $4.00 a gal. is
high, wait til it goes to $5.00 a gal. and that's definitely coming by next
year, if that long. We are still far behind other countries when it comes
to the price of gasoline, France, England, Italy....almost double what
we pay and it's sold by the liter not gallon. We have ourselves to blame.
No politician can fix this problem-Rep. or Dem.
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