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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/8/2008 12:21:13 AM | Mae : You're awesome. Let's hook up! LOL ;)
And yeah.. I'm not afraid to do things for myself, but I'm not too sure how guys relate to that cuz I haven't been in a relationship for 7 years ... but it's not like I come off as a b*tch or anything (the I can do anything you can and do it better woman's lib thing lol).. I am still a girlie girl, and I really LOOOOOOOOVE how men can do little things for me, and it makes them feel "strong like bull". Hehe. I'm definately not out to dominate a guy in any way. I love being a woman, and I love men being men.
So yeah.. I guess I'm just waiting.. waiting.. :D
VainH: You're so right hehehe. Most guys inside their deepest thoughts are looking for someone to care for them hehe. So I guess it's a fine line that us women have to walk eh?!
Agapantha: I totally agree with your statement on how you wouldn't expect them to conform for you, as you would like to not conform for anyone. It's just really hard to be someone "outside the box" sometimes. But there's so many more plusses than negatives to being outside the box, that I could never change! And neither should any of us! :)
Greanize: I've been single for 7 years now too,, hehe. I guess we're in the same boat lol. I feel the same as you. I've been single because I half wanted to be for a long time, and half didn't want to be. I don't want to be alone anymore, but being alone is far better than settling for just anything. I guess that's where independance comes in as well. So many people are willing to settle for anything, cuz they're afraid of being alone. I've been alone for so long now, that I've gotten it out of my system, and found out who I am in that time. Soul searching in your 20s is not uncommon, and I've done it, now I'm ready and waiting lol.
bty62: Thanks for the vote of confidence :)
english_lass: I am not the kind of person to flaunt anything in people's faces.. I was not born with culture and strength, I had to learn it and be humble, and go through a lot of things to be where I am right now. I am very curious about everything.. I would say that that's the word that describes me the most here: curious. I never want to stop learning. But I know what you're saying, because I've seen some VERY snobby people use their intelligence to look down on other people. It goes on every day with many many people all around us. But I see the world as one big learning lesson. I can learn something from a homeless person, an 80 year old senior, a little 5 year old, a new immigrant, or anyone in the city. I love people. So I really hate when people think that they're better than another person.
Also, I agree, that many guys want someone that IS needy, so they can boost THEIR confidence. It's sad, but it happens, and people aren't perfect. But I am just not in that group, nor will I be used like that haha!
My I: Hard ass is such a harsh word hehe. I'm sure that being a "hard ass" is just part of your personality, and that you have many other things to offer. So someone judging you on only that is a bit shallow. :)
icehammer: THANK YOU. I read a whole book about "doormat women", and the whole book is about how men hate women who are doormats. It's nice to know that a guy can appreciate a woman with her own mind :)
Sorry for the long post everyone, but I thought I had to reply to everyone individually.
You guys are great!
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 5/28/2008 8:27:29 PM | basically men are either secure or not secure/
a man who is secure within himself will want and need u to be your own person./own thoughts/free 2 b me, "type deal" and appreciates your intelligence.
a man who is unsecure within himself will not want u to be you, and will need u to be dependant on him. and will see your intelligence as a threat.
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 5/30/2008 11:38:58 PM | Define 'quality'
Men are not secure or not secure. EVERYONE has their own insecurities. It makes us human. That and the fact that we are the only mammal that fights wars with each other. : )
By the way...there is no such word as 'unsecure'
On behalf of 'quality' men everywhere, let me just say...be yourself. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:13:37 AM | there is no such word as 'unsecure'
Uh, yeah, unsecure is a word.
Not locked or fastened down, as in an unsecure mooring rope.
Not backed by assets, as in an unsecured line of credit.
Not protected from surveillance, as in an unsecure phone line.
Of course, the proper word in this case is insecure, but 'unsecure' is no 'irregardless.' How are those ESL course working out for you? | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 6/3/2008 7:18:40 PM | | ok ok , i`ll bite ... just a simple answer .... ya they scare the crap out of me , i perfer my women hairy and as dumb as a post ... < thats not my real answer but after reading some of the posts in this thread im rather shocked some of you know how to log on to the net let alone turn your monitor on . Independance and smarts ... that would be an awesome trait to find in anyone , male or female... and thats my final answer ... n stuff | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 6/4/2008 12:20:33 PM | | All guys are different. For me personally intellect and independence is a huge turn on. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 6/4/2008 1:28:42 PM | The truth?
Some men can feel intimidated by someone smarter than them or someone that doesn't need them to be the typical “provider”. These are all ways men feel needed. (we really don't have much else to offer we're simple creatures)
Men feel the need to be in control a lot of the time in relationships and in reality when they have a "weak moment" if you can manage to step up and take the ball they will feel complimented as opposed to challenged. But nailing the timing on this is next to impossible. It's usually when the GPS conks out and we just drop a slurpee on our lap and freak out. (good luck with that)
In reality you can't win. If you try to step up when they are technically in control and make us look stupid. That's a no-no, and then you are what is commonly referred to as a well you can figure it out...
The trick is to do what most women in marriages do, let the men ruffle their plumage and act like they are in control making the decisions but try not to giggle when we discreetly call you before we buy the big screen TV type thing....
Hats off to all those who know how to spell independent...
Good luck~! | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/14/2008 6:32:17 PM | Hm, I don't think a womans intelligence or abilities is intimidating at all. The only women that bother me are the ones that have that im better than everyone else and guys are dumb kind of quality to them.
Other than that I don't think i've ever been intimidated with a woman that could challenge me. Of course a guy has to feel needed but it never felt like a womans abilities could really make me feel like less of a man.
Really the only thing that would bother me is the uncertainty of if a woman is better than me in a lot of ways if I could still present the qualities that would keep them satisfied as a partner. Guess that is intimidation.
Powerful women are sexy though to be honest. Not if that woman is disrespectful or dosen't know how to make guys feel useful or needed. A guy definately wants to feel needed. If a woman seems really cold or aloof or dosen't show somewhat that she needs a guy to love her it kind of makes me feel down a bit.
Though that has nothing to do with ability, intelligence, or the capacity to take control of a situation. Everyone wants to know they are loved or appreciated. Yet really I have no need to feel intimidated by a womans abilities.
I like a certain level of equality to be honest. I always felt a woman should be an important partner if anything and she should have the right to get credit for good opinions and ideas.
No guy wants someone that would put them down but it's all good to have a strong woman though. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/14/2008 6:46:31 PM | Hmm maybe it's the way you wrote that your not impressed by money and status.
You have to make clear you want someone that is striving for abundance and beleives in abundance or that they could have abundance but still has a good heart as well.
Since of course there are men that can make money but having a generous nature and a good heart attached to that is a hard one I suppose.
Maybe you should just clarify that you do want someone who has ambitions but also make clear that you value empathy, kindness and a positive nature.
Those are hard things to find I guess. Also it's easy to fake it on here.
I honestly don't know I see that in profiles all the time. Then when you try to come off as nice it dosen't seem to work and then you get told something about how bad your picture is or why is the bathroom in the background of your picture. Or that you should have this kind of career or what not.
What I mean here is that sometimes women say they want a certain nature in men but then they really are looking for what the guy has as well. It's just an issue of finding both and if a guy has all the gadgets he has to know how to show them off in the right way as well I guess. You could show you have the nice car and clothes yet if you show them the wrong way it dosen't work.
If you don't show it then you are told your sloppy or not all that impressive.
I don't want to be debbie downer but it starts to feel that way from a male perspective.
Perhaps less ambitious guys are writing to you because they think your a bit nicer and more accepting of traits that are less desirable I have no idea.
That said it depends on what you mean by quality men as well. Every woman is looking for different types of this quality.
I'm not sure if in attitude im always the quality guy. I mean I feel sure of myself and can accept a woman for who she is. Yet I can feel down after asking so many people out on here and not admit what I might have to change on my profile to make myself look like a better catch. Normally im happy alone but I guess that coming here and trying makes me think more about dating than I normally do.
I don't know how bad that makes me as a guy but it is like that. Sometimes we write to the wrong women too though thinking of one aspect over another in them can lead to mistakes on my part. I should be more patient and accepting though. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:11:22 PM | I think what it is though is that guys see from your face that your a nice person. It's easy to tell which women are a bit harder and expect a guy to reach this level of perfection over an other.
That definately shouldn't take away from your right to find happiness or someone to be happy with.
Just that they probably see something there and think hmm maybe this girl is a bit more freindly than the others and don't really consider what your standards are.
All I can say is take sexier more intimidating pictures that would make most guys write to you less. Start writing about doing all these sports you don't do and make more clarity about what you want in a guy.
Heh, that might sound mean but I'm trying to be truthful here. Most men aren't hardly as athletic as the athleticism that women claim to have and if they see a woman is more athletic then them and they aren't. They feel intimidated and will write back less. Or know they have no chance and will write anyways.
Okay honestly all the men would still write to you and more men probably would. Just that maybe the more in shape guys that make this level of money or whatever will catch attention more quickly.
I don't know maybe im making myself sound like a jerk now. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/14/2008 9:34:56 PM | Wow.. I didn't even know that this topic was still getting replies!
I think that people are mis-interpreting what I mean, and I tried so hard to explain myself lol...
I am a strong person, in that I know who I am, I know myself, and my values, and personality. I'm not one of these girls that is wishy-washy, or "umm like I dunno.. like omg".. I have opinions, and ways of looking at the world - in short, I am a mature grown up woman.. and by no means does this mean I am a power getter.. or wear shoulder pads kinda woman. I am VERY feminine, and I love men! I let them be the man... in no way shape or form have I ever taken the "male" role in anything, and I never hold any kind of intelligence over anyone, I have no college/university.. you know? I'm just smart.. not a fricken genius lol. :D
I just want to know why men can't seem to deal with a woman who is strong inside, and knows who she is. Do we all have to depend 100% emotionally on a man's every whim? I just see it everywhere, guys following women around with their tongues out wagging and drooling, on women who are complete idiots, or ditzes, or ... well you get my drift.
Just for an update: I have have met 3 people from POF in the last month and a half, and none took the bait... :(
I guess I'm just feeling a little sting of rejection lately, and wonder if it's me or the men .lol..  Thanks everyone for your great posts!!
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:13:14 AM | I think thats a tough question to answer.
sure I like intelligence and independance, but not to the point of arragance. there should be a balance, and if a man feels that balance is tipped in the woman's favour, I think most men will usually get resentfull. I think most men want a quality woman, but we need to be the Kings of our castle's, and a woman should know how to give her man that feeling. I always think of Roseanne as the best example, always leading Dan around, but he always felt like he was leading her around. I think thats great!
I also think there's no point in stating that you are confident and intelligent and indepant, cause these are things that only actions can prove. anyone can talk or put things down on their profile, but not many people can back what they say. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:59:40 AM | From a confident woman , I think you should join the 21st century and Get Out The Cave...
Or maybe you are threatened by intelligence.. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/15/2008 4:21:45 PM | Re: everlast_toronto
"I also think there's no point in stating that you are confident and intelligent and indepant, cause these are things that only actions can prove. anyone can talk or put things down on their profile, but not many people can back what they say."
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You can say that actions speak louder than words for almost every statement made on any POF profile.
"I am funny".. "I am loving and caring"... etc. People like to talk about themselves in their profiles, and sorry to say, but it's pretty hard to prove anything on a website. The fact that I state intelligence, independence. and confidence in my profile, shows that I consider them qualities that to be proud of, and I have no doubt in my ability to prove them in real life.
On the flip side, I didn't state "shy", "dependant", or "soft spoken" in my profile, because those are not me.. so why would I talk about those things? I describe myself the best way I can, and in a way that conveys a sense of self to the reader; which means that I describe what I think are my best qualities. Basically, none of us can "prove" anything here on POF, so I really think your point about not writing those qualities there is kind of "pointless". If we all had to PROVE on POF that we were "funny", or "smart", or "witty", then everyone's profile would basically be the same, without any diversity, or strengths.
Thanks.
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/15/2008 10:41:59 PM | Um, I think I got all of that very clearly. Some men aren't intimidated by any of that. Plus what man would seriously want someone who isn't intelligent. Or at least has a sense of intellectual curiousity. If the person can't hold a discussion and talk about a vast multitude of issues and have their own opinions on things it would get boring fast.
I think what your facing is the cultural meme of having a desire to think things over, showing intellectual curiosity and a desire for knowledge isn't cool kind of guys.
I've met guys who are smart but still think everything is a popularity game like in highschool where knowing stuff is shameful and not cool that it makes me sad.
I only had up to grade 13 and some college and I still enjoy learning about complicated subjects and talking about them. Heck I still love reading comics and cartoons as well. I really don't care what people think. Life would be pretty miserable in my opinion without being able to read about some of the latest scientific discoverys or reading things that a person enjoys. Plus it's good to continously read something. It dosen't matter what it is as long as the brain is kept stimulated thats whats important. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/15/2008 11:08:31 PM | it depends too on whether you insist on reminding people how independant and intelligent you are..which is kind of what English and MI are saying...but I think the OP really means confident/strong.
I am capable of looking after myself but it does not mean I do not want to co-habitat again at some point in time. I find men say they want independance, confidence, intelligence..what they really mean up here in the north is they want one independant enough to know when the woodstove needs filling, strong enough to carry it, confident enough to operate an ax to chop the wood, and smart enough to cook the meals on the woodstove... kidding, kidding....
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/16/2008 10:02:33 AM | Some are, some aren't.
In general I'm attracted to smart independent women but I'd rate other qualities like kindness much higher.
Both men and women often don't know themselves what they're looking for, it's easier to say what they find unattractive. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:21:15 PM | Well well well NorthernMiss :) You really got me laughing on that one hehehe.
So I brought up this convo to my guy friend, and after listening to what I was talking about on here, about how it seems that men gravitate towards whiney/non-confident/strong women, and he said this about it:
"They're easier to control".. and this was his response because he has a lot of girl friends that talk to him about their problems, and he hears it over and over again. He just said it point blankly to me after a few seconds, and I was like.. wow.. "You just summed up all that shit into 4 words..?!"
And so there I have it. It's not the strong confident women that have a problem, it's that a lot of men have issues with their "maleness", and find females that make them feel "bigger".
That's just society I guess, and it makes me sad, but whatever.. I'm not gonna be someone else from who I am, just to find a bf.
Thank you everyone for your comments and answers in this matter :)
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/18/2008 10:18:31 AM |
So I brought up this convo to my guy friend, and after listening to what I was talking about on here, about how it seems that men gravitate towards whiney/non-confident/strong women, and he said this about it:
"They're easier to control"..
^^^^ smart guy. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 7/18/2008 10:37:25 AM | I would turn the question around;;
"why do women find intelligence so repulsive"?
Think about it. Woman do not value intelligence or experience in a man. Not all women, but its a general rule of thumb. To win a woman's heart;
a. do her tons of favors, fix her broken stairs, change her car oil, re-tile the bathroom for her, pick her up, pick her kids up, help her shop..you know the drill..be a worker drone
b. dont dress in anything that suggests you like fashion or makes you look less manly, manly - gray sweatpants, white tee shirts, dockers, loafers, in general, dress preppy or dress like a sewer worker
c. dont spend any time on your appearance..women prefer a unibrow, bad haircuts, unshaven faces, unwashed clothing, in general, to win a woman's heart dress like a street bum because thats MANLY
d. dont be interested in anything but sports. Women do not like men who read, are culturally literate, who go to theatre, who attend festivals. Woman are happiest with a man who watches hockey, football and baseball..because those are MANLY sports
e. dont use any words long than one syllable. Women prefer a man who cannot speak beyond grade 10. Its threatening to them to be with an equal, so a dumb guy is easier to control, to regulate, to channel for ones goals.
In general, to win a womans heart, and do try this...it works like a charm;
a. go up to her in a bar and say , you are hot, can i have your number. At first she will react, but then, surprisingly, she will warm to you. She doesnt want Einstein, she wants a B movie hero. Act like a total dork, show her no respect and be obviously interested in only one thing,..sex..and shes yours for the taking...
b. after you get to know her, do not read, do not get educated, do not suggest any activity other than what she wants to do
Depressing isnt it? Thats how it works now.
So in summary, to win a woman's devotion, check your brains at the door. There is nothing that is more of a turn-off for North American women than intelligence. Buddy, you are in her life for one thing...to do chores that she hates doing.
After all, theres nothing MANLY about intelligence. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:54:33 PM | Well,
Personally, I think that independence in a woman is a quality that any man should aapreciate. For me personally, I like it if a woman is also an intellectual, and it is always nice to be able to carry on an intelligent conversation with a woman. I think if someone were to hold that against you as a personal character flaw, then it would leave a little to be said about their character. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:26:25 PM | Ahhhhhhh Peacethx, your whole post is somewhat repulsive. Let's flip it again shall we?
Are these the type of women you are attracted to? Women looking for the type of men you have described in your post? Then you seem to be looking for unintelligent and dependent women. So, you just proved the OP's point. I can assure you that women possessing a minute amount of intelligence and strive for independence, would NOT be attracted to the men you describe.
UGH! | |
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| Just an Honest Question...Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
Posted: 7/18/2008 9:02:25 PM | Independence and Intellect are sexy.... In a man or woman....
That being said, sometimes they are taken to extremes, intellect can become arrogance and independence can become overbearing. I like to pay for dinner and have dinner bought for me, I don't see how me wanting to pay for a dates dinner/drink means I don't think they are independent.
I'd love to find an independent and intellectual woman right now... | |
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| Just an Honest Question...Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:51:33 AM | A lot of men find intelligence a turnoff if you are smarter than them.
If you are smart, but not as smart as them, they love that. LOVE that.
Once you hit the point of being smarter than them, many are threatened and become vaguely antagonistic.
Independence, they usually like, mostly because many men are wary of gold-diggers and it relieves them of that worry if they see that you make do for yourself. | |
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