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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:23:17 PM |
So, maybe in those 1st-date interviews, we can ask prospective partners about situations where they've had the chance to do just that.
Good advice. Or, find a woman that has sons and she will be more apt to have sensitivity and understanding of the male. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:42:50 PM |
I do so appreciate an adult conversation about a topic like this. Very refreshing, MissMewsic!
Well thank you - same here. The sociology and psychology of human sexual behavior has always fascinated me.
When I was a much younger woman in my twenties it always puzzled me that women would use sex to get what they want, when I was quite confused because I thought sex IS what I wanted. My college girlfriends and I always said "The best way to get over a man is get under another one" What I didn't realize is that I was just a sad young woman who grew up without a father and was desperately seeking any validation and attention from the opposite sex. It wasn't the actual sex I wanted, but the fleeting and elusive intimacy that came with it, and to experience any kind of closeness and understanding of men. What I didn't realize is that I was giving all of my power away to someone I barely knew. It always seemed that men gravitated towards, stayed with, and married the controlling ****y women. I didn't understand this because I saw myself as a nice, giving, loving, and trusting person. I didn't realize that just like a child WANTS discipline, men WANT women to set boundaries for them and women who are clear about what behavior they will and won't accept from a man are not ****es, but actually very smart women.
Just like the man I am interested in at the moment - I get very little response or reaction from a sweet or pleasant email or message, and I get an immediate positive, reassuring response and reaction from him if I have sent him a strong, edgy, slightly angry email. In a way, I'm finding if I show a little ****iness he responds positively. So am I training him, or is he training me? | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/17/2008 6:04:37 PM |
When I was a much younger woman in my twenties it always puzzled me that women would use sex to get what they want, when I was quite confused because I thought sex IS what I wanted. ... It wasn't the actual sex I wanted, but the fleeting and elusive intimacy that came with it, and to experience any kind of closeness and understanding of men.
Well, I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. Part of me want to validate your first thought because near as I can tell there is nothing wrong with a person, man or woman, who wants sex for its own sake. Of course intimacy often goes with sex, but the idea that intimacy is a permanent state of connection and bliss is a cultural construct. That idea is an artifact of women's mythology. It isn't necessarily so in all situations.
Another part of me wants to applaud you for your honesty in owning up to the idea that you used sex to get what you wanted. I can just hear the other women piping up to say that using sex to get intimacy is a recipe for failure, and that's true. You can have intimacy with men without having sex with them. Such men are called "friends." Once I learned how to be a friend to a woman, the quality of my life improved immensely.
What I didn't realize is that I was giving all of my power away to someone I barely knew.
This strikes me as more women's mythology. When two people are naked together and both are there of their own free will, doing what they want to do to please themselves and each other in the moment and for no other reason, there is no power dynamic. That's what sexual intimacy _is._
It always seemed that men gravitated towards, stayed with, and married the controlling ****y women. I didn't understand this because I saw myself as a nice, giving, loving, and trusting person. I didn't realize that just like a child WANTS discipline, men WANT women to set boundaries for them and women who are clear about what behavior they will and won't accept from a man are not ****es, but actually very smart women.
Women's mythology again. Men just want to know what the price is going to be. Once they know what they have to do to remain in your good graces, they are reassured. The suspicions that new and greater demands are silently accumulating in the background are relieved whenever a woman speaks up about what is and isn't working for her. But that's just honest feedback. There need be nothing b*tchy about it.
Of course, some women push it, and we men know it, and we tend to resent it. So when one of us escapes a situation like that, we all tend to cheer. Male mythology at work can be ugly too.
Just like the man I am interested in at the moment - I get very little response or reaction from a sweet or pleasant email or message, and I get an immediate positive, reassuring response and reaction from him if I have sent him a strong, edgy, slightly angry email. In a way, I'm finding if I show a little ****iness he responds positively. So am I training him, or is he training me?
If you continue to regard it as a power dynamic, and if you continue to view your sexual desires as a means to an end--be it for "intimacy," or "commitment," or whatever you might believe you're entitled to get from a man (because men in general are oppressors, or stupid, or both, or because your father was inadequate, or whatever mythological cause you might feel you have--if you feel you have one), you will be training him.
He might also be training you, but if so let's hope he's training you toward behaviors that he's going to enjoy and that won't be a problem for you. We all make adjustments in order to get along with people we love. Yes? | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:52:25 PM |
I didn't realize that just like a child WANTS discipline, men WANT women to set boundaries for them and women who are clear about what behavior they will and won't accept from a man are not ****es, but actually very smart women.
Call me silly but I prefer a woman who sets boundaries for herself, and is clear about them, and then sticks to them. It is a case of knowing who you are, what you want, what you will accept and where you will compromise. If I know that I'll have a pretty good idea if there are any possibilities.
Just like the man I am interested in at the moment - I get very little response or reaction from a sweet or pleasant email or message, and I get an immediate positive, reassuring response and reaction from him if I have sent him a strong, edgy, slightly angry email. In a way, I'm finding if I show a little ****iness he responds positively. So am I training him, or is he training me?
Wow!
You sure you haven't confused "sweet" or "pleasant" with "superfluous fluff"?
Unless the guy is some type of masochist I'd be really wondering about "only responding anger or b1tchiness". Sounds like you bought into a MYTH-CONCEPTION straight out of Cosmo. I have a girlfriend that translates what my other girlfriends say into english that I can easily get my male mind around, perhaps you could use similar services when trying to understand men. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:57:17 PM | Sex=intimacy? OK...but I want a bit more about the vibrators. When a women uses a vibrator is that intimacy? Please explain. Also I give part marks for incomplete answers.... | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 12:00:11 AM | Forums1, you are not making any sense in your statements. What are you trying to say? And who are you trying to convince? You seem to be really ticked off. Also get your facts straight.
It is perfectly ok for anyone to change their mind to not have sex or to have sex. It was a mutual decision for us to sleep together. He was a sweet talker, but it's my fault for responding to it. WE BOTH discussed seeing each other again. WE BOTH said we're not looking for anything serious. WE BOTH said we were not into one nite stands. The only thing i dispute is the fact that he wouldn't talk to me afterwards. I'm not used to being treated like that. It's just not right for a woman or a man to be treated like that. You share your body with someone and they refuse to answer your calls and emails. I'm not a hooker and I'm not a slut. I value my body.
Quoted by Forums1; "Does it make her all that more mature to say she wasn't looking for anything serious (sounds an awful lot like "NSA" to me), and then get upset that he isn't interested in 'more' - and she goes posting up on POF about jumping in the sack with a guy she barely knows?"
How does that make me immature? I'm not upset that he doesn't want more. I'm upset that he didn't have the decency to talk to me afterwards and say he didn't want to see me any more. Then I would've had some closure. Instead he left me hanging, not knowing what was going on. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 12:11:06 AM |
Then I would've had some closure.
OH.
Ok, closure.
Closure is something that only you can provide for yourself. Honestly. What is any person going to say or do? Wave a magic little wand, pronounce the words ‘Umni, Umni, Vortac.’ And there you have it. I am not being facetious. It is often called a write off. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 1:33:44 AM | Translation, please don't make light of the situation. There are no magic words. But there should've been some words from him afterwards. I would've even preferred a f*ck off. Better than nothing.
Are you telling me that it's ok to just run away without a word? I don't think you would do that to a woman you just slept with the nite before. But who knows, I don't know you. Maybe this type of thing happens all the time to women. I'm new to the dating scene. Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way. But learn I did. And it will be a long while before my clothes come off again. I'll have to date the guy a year before he sees any skin. Better safe than sorry. Right? | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 1:47:03 AM | Good luck on finding the guy that will wait a year!
Jack Nicolson said to Helen Hunt in the movie "As Good As It Gets" .....
"Were not open for the no sexos here untill 9am" Man he couldnt have said it better!
What is wrong with women in America these days. All paranoid all worried and all no sexo. Geez its a miricle when somebody does get laid! Its no wonder men often would rather just pay for it! | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:23:19 AM |
Good luck on finding the guy that will wait a year!
Jack Nicolson said to Helen Hunt in the movie "As Good As It Gets" .....
"Were not open for the no sexos here untill 9am" Man he couldnt have said it better!
What is wrong with women in America these days. All paranoid all worried and all no sexo. Geez its a miricle when somebody does get laid! Its no wonder men often would rather just pay for it!
Women like sex too! We have just been conditioned or trained that if we let you have it without working for it that you will disappear, ignore us, and disrespect us afterwards, because you don't value it if you don't have to work for it. Men have been training us for decades, and some of us women are weak and still haven't learned. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:53:29 AM | Women like sex too! We have just been conditioned or trained that if we let you have it without working for it that you will disappear, ignore us, and disrespect us afterwards, because you don't value it if you don't have to work for it. Men have been training us for decades, and some of us women are weak and still haven't learned.
Not exactly. That is the conclusion that women consistently come to when they interpret men's behaviors through the filter of women's mythology. You've been training each other to see it that way. Unfortunately, men have another mythology through which we filter your responses. We believe that sex must come at a price, and when we don't know what that price will be we freak out. It's a simple as that.
So it's not about "making us work for it." It's about making the negotiations clear and up front. When you don't do that, or when you change up after setting your terms (you'll have to wait past the first date--oops, changed my mind, go ahead), you can expect him to freak out. Of course, he can't admit to this because that would be unmanly, but our mythology tells us that if you aren't stating the terms up front then the small print that you read out to us later could be a real killer.
Again, it isn't as simple as who's training whom. There are mythological constructs in between your behavior and our interpretation that might or might not be true. The same is true for our behavior and your intepretation. That layer of mythology alters your perception and prevents you from seeing what's really going on at times. In the case of men and male mythology, it sometimes prevents us from even being willing to stick around long enough to find out what true of you and what isn't. That is on us, but it isn't because you didn't "make us earn it." It's because the situation wasn't clear and therefore didn't appear to be emotionally safe. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 9:30:33 AM |
Translation, please don't make light of the situation.
I didn’t. I did mention, because I thought that you might take it that way, that I was not being facetious. You made it clear that you were looking for closure. Until you mentioned that I thought that you were wanting ideas and concepts to think about. But now I know that you are really looking for closure.
Are you telling me that it's ok to just run away without a word?
I am saying that we cannot control others or their actions. It happened, and there is nothing that you can do about it. In the mean time you feel the need for closure. That is totally understandable, but, only you can do that.
In your own mind, you can tell yourself ‘It’s done. It’s over. I am putting that behind me.’ This is giving yourself closure. Choose, inside yourself, to end the ‘relationship’. You can choose to let it go and move on.
I don't think you would do that to a woman you just slept with the nite before.
I have only had one one nighter. It was my first time, I was about 22. I had no clue what I was doing, I didn’t know her. She was a roommate of a friends ‘friend’. Anyways, she asked me if I wanted to, I did, so we did, but we didn’t finish, neither of us seemed to be liking it very much, so I left and there was no further contact. I think that that was mutual also.
My first attempt at a relationship was a 2 month relationship, had sex twice, a month apart, really strange. She had 5 daughters from 4 dads and she had told me that she wanted a blond haired blue eyed boy. That really weirded me out, but I tried to see her side of it and thought that that wasn’t really a bad thing. I had taken a week to go visit my folks, I got back and my answering machine was full, all telling me that she thought that I was ignoring her and that she had found someone else. I had told her where I was going and how long I would be. It was all too much, I did call her and talk to her, but the relationship was over.
I did have a one year relationship that was fantastic in every way. There were trying times, but those were good too. But about 9 months into it there was an occupational separation that was too much for both of us. Damnit, she really was superb.
The last one was a 2 week relationship. We met on eHarmony, we got along. She was a single mother of a 7 yo daughter and they lived in Canada. I went to visit, hence the two week part. There were bad signs. Her daughter did not like me, and I hate to say it, but I didn’t like her daughter, she was a bit slovenly and wanted to be babied and threw fits and cried a lot. I did not say anything negative or get involved there. But the woman was nice and we got along really well. But, she was still married. Yeah, not as single as I had thought. On eHarmony you are supposed to be single. She admitted lying about it, and honestly, I was a bit in shock, I didn’t know what to say. I did stay the two weeks as planned, and we shared a couple of emails after that, but it was over, and at the time I didn’t know what to say.
OK. Now the whole world knows my entire history. Yikes. lol | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 11:23:09 AM | I hate to hear about stories like this. Men who pretend to be good guys but aren't give a bad reputation to the guys who are. Except for the very rare occasion of not being able to contact someone again, such as having no contact information, I've never had sex with someone without having some kind of communication after that. I even told the one woman over the phone the day after that she reminds me too much of my ex-wife so I didn't want to be more than friends with her.
Ed | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 11:25:05 AM | | The sad fact is that some guys do not want relationships...even short ones. They only want the victory of getting laid by some dame...especially one who wasn't planning on laying them. Once they get a victory from you, there is no more challenge with you...so no more thril,l for them, from you...so the are off to the next contest and conquest. Such guys are jerks...but jerks skilled at acting, sweet talking, and convincing women they are nice. It is a risk you have to take if you date. There are also women with this mindset, who are just as cold, and jerky; though they are fewer in number. They totally ignore you as a past conquest because they have already gotten all they want from you, and can get nothing more. It is like a sports team. Beating a new team is a challenge, and a prize. Once you've proven you can beat a team, why play them again...when the world is full of unbeaten teams you can play instead? I've never been like this, but have known class/work mates who were. They tend to be sporting enthusiasts. The more a guy loves sports, the more apt he is to be a one time player like this with the women he meets. If you had waited until the 40th date to sleep with him the result would be the same. The fault is his for being the way he is and wanting nothing more than another notch on his gun. It is sad when this happens, but it is a risk...like spraining your ankle while hikeing, or getting sunburned while water skiiing, etc. Everything has risks, and you need to better prepare to deal with them. Screen guys better, and avoid sports nuts as much as possible. On a date, ignore his words, and try to psych in on his 'vibes'. Try to see past the mask, and act. Also, the more money a guy has, and the nicer his home/car, the less he has been burned by divorce...meaning he has never been wed...meaning he probably has never, or rarely, been in a relationship which could have led to marriage...meaning he is probably a player/one night stander. When you date a guy who has a great car, and a nice house, and great clothes, and a big screen TV, etc, you chance dating a one night stand player. He has everything else he could want, and he wants to keep it, and all he wants from you is a bit of sex, and the thrill of yet another victory. The signs are there if you look for them. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 11:28:07 AM | | Maybe you held him off too long, and he lost interest in you...or he became impotent and can't help you now that you are ready to have sex. Gather your rosebuds while yet ye may. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/18/2008 11:33:47 AM | I am not sure if you are a man or a woman, but I applaud you for having the courage to speak your mind! Unfortunately, most people don't have the backbone to speak up...or take a stand. You are so right with what you say! May the Spirit of the Universe Bless You as well.
Mistymeadows | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/19/2008 2:06:14 PM | I have to just say one thing.....I'm glad I'm not the only person that felt the same way! lol It's amazing how these things still happen these days......I actually feel sorry for the person who does the "using". They sound like very lonely people. They don't or won't know how to have a decent relationship until they stop doing what they do.
Looking for a decent person these days seems ......well, a lost art maybe? | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:31:58 PM |
Sex=intimacy? OK...but I want a bit more about the vibrators. When a women uses a vibrator is that intimacy? Please explain. Also I give part marks for incomplete answers
Ok, As much I think vibrators are God's little gift to women, they can't wrap their arms around you, touch you everywhere, look into your eyes, and lie to you - lol. It's the skin on skin contact with another (hopefully) human being. Are we not supposed to want any kind of connection with someone anymore? Isn't that the whole point of dating instead a romance with our toys?
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:56:31 PM |
It always seemed that men gravitated towards, stayed with, and married the controlling ****y women.
Not on my planet. If I meet a woman like that I will disappear so fast that the air will make a sonic boom filling in the space I had occupied. The only direction a woman can push me is away from her. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:18:01 AM | I know you were asking the guys about their opinion but I could not resist....
"That is cruel and inhuman. Is it my fault for sleeping with him on the first date? Should have i expected such treatment because of it? I guess i am too naive. I will never make that mistake again. I would like to know how other men feel about this happening to a woman"
What do you think men should use women for??? Naive? Yes. Will it happen to you again? Yes. Is it your fault? definately yes! It was not rape.
Sorry for sounding so cruel, but sometimes us women (any race) set ourselves up and then point fingers elsewhere. A lesson for all (men and women), not because somebody sleeps with you it means he/she wants to see you again or be friends or anything like that, sometimes it is just about the sex and we must try and determine that, sometimes we judge wrongfully but such is life. If it is no sex on first date or whenever... go to a public place, when the date is over you go your way he goes his. Clearly he knew which strings to pull and buttons to push... don't be a sucker... all that glitters is not gold. | |
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| why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 7/21/2008 6:43:09 AM | Why do women think they can use men to get free lunches etc ?
It all depends on your point of view really.
Some men use prostitutes but also like to have the odd freebie !
Why buy a book when you can join a library ? | |
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