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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:02:51 AM | D-Lily:
"Just remember it's not love unless you are loved in return....." .
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Hmm. Who passed THAT law?
Is love a transaction? I don't think so. I think if you choose to give love, it will be a gift, a giving not a bargaining, and you will love without being concerned what you get "in return" if anything at all.
"Love is like a magic penny; hold onto it and you won't have any. Lend it, spend it, you'll have so many, They roll all over the floor." - Malvina Reynolds
A priest in a church here preaches over and over, "love wastefully." I think he is saying that you can give your love away without holding back, and without calculating as if it's a commodity like oil that will run out if you waste it. Loving is not a zero sum game.
Maybe when you can love without expecting anything in return, then you become a more loving person. And a loving person attracts love from others, but that's not the point. What counts is that the person who loves without any expectation of return is going to be the most whole, happy person with or without being loved in return.
If that is correct, then loving is its own reward. You don't need to justify it; you make a choice and follow it.
Romantic relationship is a whole nother thing. That works best when it is the result of cold reason, not emotion, and the emotional aspect is put into it later. The dumbest mistake you can make is to get involved on the basis that somebody "sets your heart on fire." That is like the "falling in love" of children, a.k.a. infatuation, when hormones trump brains.
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:41:40 AM | | OP, what exactly do you mean by "opening your heart" , how quickly do you do this by the way and to what kinds of people or in what kinds of situations? why the particular people that you keep getting hurt by? what are you attracting and is your heart really your heart or your "brain" in addiction mode? if you give from the heart, you don't necessarily expect in return. by the same token, you deserve to be given to, but must seek out those who are capable of doing so. THAT is the difficult part, i will certainly vouche. i'm near sixty and still question my own choices, but each time i learn a little more--about me. however, i will say, that my heart no longer breaks so easily. tears are shed, that's all. temporary. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 2:11:17 AM | The PC line is a lie. As a man, you have to find appropriate private settings to reveal your feelings; but when you're facing the world, you'd better square yourself off and focus on your goals/priorities.
The moment a woman perceives you as weak, she looses respect for you and you lose her.
Solution: Man up.
Despite what women say, they want a man.
Evidence: If women wanted sensitive guys, the world in general and these forums in particular are filled with them and women would be clamoring for them... instead all those sensitive guys are in here whining about being too vulnerable and always getting dumped. And have you ever heard a woman in these forums look at a whiner and say "Oh, I'll take that one!"
Guys, grow some balls, your woman aint your mamma... | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 4:10:16 AM | | There is a big difference between whining and opening yourself up. And as for not being called love unless both are in love is bs. Love is YOUR emotion. You are not responsible for someone else's. When two people are in love its a relationship. When one loves its a gift. You never run out of love. It's like a spring that keeps replenishing itself. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 4:44:36 AM | | ^^Opening yourself up to what? The OP doesn't need another feeling. People who think love is primarily a "feeling" are the ones who get disillusioned. The O.P. wants a good match for an LTR. To do that, he needs to further determine what kind of woman works best for him long-term and go about screening for his mate. That will require working on communication skills and having tons of dates. Sometimes you need to grit your teeth, straighten your posture, and move forward to do that. That's what we don't emphasize enough currently. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:06:11 AM | "The moment a woman perceives you as weak, she looses respect for you and you lose her.
Solution: Man up.
Despite what women say, they want a man."
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Come on, dude. I am a man, I know I'm a man, I like being a man, women I meet all the time know I'm a man, and many of them want me. Sorry if you have a problem, I don't have a problem.
I don't worry about "manning up", whatever that means, and I don't give a d@mn whether or not others approve of the way I am, and I do not live my life worrying about what others want. If you want a guy who has chosen to "man up," try visiting your local gay bar and look for the "leather boys," who really know how to "man up," with their boots and chains and tattoos.
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... then aprincelydroh continues:
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"If women wanted sensitive guys, the world in general and these forums in particular are filled with them and women would be clamoring for them... instead all those sensitive guys are in here whining about being too vulnerable and always getting dumped. And have you ever heard a woman in these forums look at a whiner and say 'Oh, I'll take that one!' "
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Well, I agree that self-pitying whiners are unattractive wimps, whether they are male or female, and personally I stay away from them, and also from guys who imagine they need to "man up."
Don't knock "sensitive," dude. If you want to strut around playing tough-skinned macho, be my guest, maybe it works for you. I laugh at that stuff and at males dumb enough to be suckered into playing a predetermined gender role instead of just being exactly what they choose to be, which in my case means a one-off individual, not just a member of a class filed in a box labeled "man." I do not live for others and I do not expect others to live for me, and life is good. Sorry if yours isn't.
The header says "Men are not always strong." Well, I don't know why they don't just say "People are not always strong." I like being around strong people, male or female. The weaklings, losers, muscle-flexing macho types, princesses on pedestals, complainers, pathetic weak Cinderellas awaiting a big strong rescuer who rides up on a white horse shouting "I'm a MAN!", are welcome to be whatever they want to be, whether male or female, and I'll take a pass. Being 100% true to yourself works for me.
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:51:49 AM | Fra59e:
First of all: Calm down. You're sounding a little rattled here, and it's just a discussion. As you can see, you do not have the prevailing opinion amongst the guys here, but your opinion is still valid.
As far as trying to "sound macho" or caring what others think--I'm certain that that's not what motivates us. Like it or not, there are fundamental differences between men and women on a biological level. Men have 10 times the testosterone that women do, and men produce and metabolize many other hormones and neurotransmitters differently, too. The brains of men and women look different under MRI scans, as well. The glial cells are different, and the size and location of various regions of the brain are different between men and women. Those anatomical/biochemical differences, as well as differences in socialization, DO account for tremendous differences in how most men handle certain situations contrasted with most women. It's just a fact.
The reason I mentioned how women really think about "sensitive" guys to the OP was to emphasize that threads like this don't work, that's all. It wasn't meant to imply that we should run around looking for anyone's approval on this issue. Most guys are trained through sports and the military to detach from unpleasant emotions and to process them privately. It's something we are already inclined to do because of our biology, but childhood and young adult training reinforces that. You don't cry after losing a ballgame---you step up and congratulate your opponent. You don't whine about a deficit in a skill set, you go out and practice harder to eliminate the deficit. Those are examples of efficient ways for guys to handle life's challenges. Women, for the most part, DO NOT process emotion the same way, and are not expected to (e.g. Hillary Clinton's breakdown after the Iowa caucus, which was deemed acceptable by most voters). For men, there is usually no urge to cry or express vulnerability---there is only the motivation to fix the problem or handle the situation. That is a byproduct of both testosterone and socialization.
To each his own; but in general there are deep, fundamental differences between guys and girls when it comes to expressing emotion. That's the way it should be, and that's the way it's always going to be. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 2:16:09 PM | LOL yah there is no need to fight. All i was looking for was a little advice on the subject. Okay it came of a little whiny oh well. But never the less i do apprecitate everyones input. Till next time keep on  | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/7/2008 2:34:51 PM |
I was once macho, and assumed that males should not express emotion. Then I grew up and slowly became at peace with myself. I discovered that I then liked myself a whole lot better. No longer afraid to have emotions and let it show, I became a whole lot more balanced.
So when I heard the Shostakovitch "Leningrad" performed at the Chicago Cultural Center, I was literally moved to tears and not ashamed to be that way. In the presence of a Salvador Dali painting at the Glasgow Art Gallery, I learned what it feels like to be quite literally silenced by genius.
Instead of imagining that you need to try to be "manly," whatever that means, I learned to be me. Totally true to myself, and screw people's expectations. Hey world, this is me, take it or leave it, I don't care. Funny thing, Spitfire, the world DOES like you more when you like yourself better.
And all the women, and men too, that I encountered, liked me a lot better the more I became true to myself. Some are feminists, some or not. Who cares? I am too busy being me to worry about what others expect.
I like myself better. I am emotional now and I am sensitive. Women like me better. What's to regret? If Spitfire chooses to live his life caring about what he imagines others think about him, he's welcome to his way. Aiming to be 100 per cent real works for me.
Some of the best advice given so far.....
Being a strong person doesn't mean shutting off your soul. It doesn't mean blocking human feelings, or emotions. It doesn't mean pretending you aren't hurting, when you are.
That's the way too many men are raised today. It's that masculine myth that snares us like an insect in amber.
Compassion is not a weakness, it's one of a human being's greatest strengths. Admitting you are wrong, when you are, isn't a weakness either. That's called being self aware.
Do women want "strong" men. Almost always.
What can touch a woman far more than anything else is a "strong" man who is emotionally aware , and (above all) human - when that's appropriate to the situation, and when that's called for.
If you aren't scared to do that, you are (by definition) all the stronger for having done it. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 12:08:30 AM | don't become jaded because then you will have trouble with women.
Drink some alcohol and detach yourself from the situation.
Attachment in this case is weakness. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 6:07:45 AM | I was once macho, and assumed that males should not express emotion. Then I grew up and slowly became at peace with myself. I discovered that I then liked myself a whole lot better. No longer afraid to have emotions and let it show, I became a whole lot more balanced.
So when I heard the Shostakovitch "Leningrad" performed at the Chicago Cultural Center, I was literally moved to tears and not ashamed to be that way. In the presence of a Salvador Dali painting at the Glasgow Art Gallery, I learned what it feels like to be quite literally silenced by genius.
Instead of imagining that you need to try to be "manly," whatever that means, I learned to be me. Totally true to myself, and screw people's expectations. Hey world, this is me, take it or leave it, I don't care. Funny thing, Spitfire, the world DOES like you more when you like yourself better.
And all the women, and men too, that I encountered, liked me a lot better the more I became true to myself. Some are feminists, some or not. Who cares? I am too busy being me to worry about what others expect.
I like myself better. I am emotional now and I am sensitive. Women like me better. What's to regret? If Spitfire chooses to live his life caring about what he imagines others think about him, he's welcome to his way. Aiming to be 100 per cent real works for me.
Message: Touching read ~ This man grew wise ~ all at once ~The magic of Art and a open mind. ~ He let something in ~ that changed and improved his life all at once.
Sometimes it seem to happens that way ~ but really it is a process ~ he was ready to change ~ he just needed the right trigger ~~ thanks for sharing.
I wish my awaking was like that ~ I took the hard slow road ~ I fought it!
But however you get there ~ get there! Life is nice on this side of maleness, no fear, no insecurtities , no questions in you mind as how you should behave or think . Your thinking is much clearer and the right thing to do ~ comes natural. ~
One thing thats help me along is , It's "my" options to feel as I do ~ "my" option ~ void of any pressure ~ what others say,do and think ~ does not reflect on me. ~dar | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 9:18:59 AM | With all due respect to posters here, guys don't mellow out with age because of wisdom. They mellow out because of plummeting testosterone levels and other hormonal changes, just like women lose their fertility and their tight breasts because of estrogen loss.
Guys should consider testosterone replacement therapy as they age. If you supplement the declining testosterone, all this talk about being "sensitive" and emotional will go away.  | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 10:09:18 AM |
In my experience... once you are perceived as strong..you no longer have the option of being vulnerable at any time.
Bingo, couldn't have said it better myself | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 1:03:38 PM | strong like a oak
or
strong like a willow
We do change ~ as we age ~ too much of this ~ shortness of that
But I didn't think thats what the OP was attempting to address.
Strong? ~ can mean or imply many things.
To copy the behavior of ~ Top level alfa male types does nothing to make one strong. It make you a Chimpanzee. ` Spitting, grabbing your nuts , strutting like a rooster ~ make you an actor ~ a poser ~
To speak profanity ~ does not make one strong.
To be is strong in body ~ weak in mind ~ is not strong
The best one might hope for isto be complete ! To have a strong mind and body and balance in life.
I know strong men ~ that go stupid without a woman ~ inside of 2 weeks!
So how strong are they? ~ They end up with some hide ~ they found somewhere. Next thing you know the police is being call in.
Someone ~ I wouldn't put up with 30 minutes ~ but they will! ~ The man I'm thinking of at the moment ~ is in prison now ~ for a man thats got to have a woman ~ he's in the wrong place.
True ~you are as strong as you think and feel ~ and you can build from there.
I'm glad ~ I'm free from this roster behavior ~ I receive more ladies attention now then ever before ~ which is just another plus ~ dar | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:45:05 PM | OK here is a thought for you to think about. We love our children and our parents they are a part of us. We love nature...we are a bag of materials of the earth(water,wind,fire,earth, and a energy that is our soul). We love ourself. Now the thought....everything else... love is a myth...it does not exist. Now we could call it unconditional love and that does not exist period.
The most important person to "love" is one's self. That one act of "love" takes care of everything else in the world. So let me explain...you have a pet that you love and it goes wild and bites you and harms you...the pet has to go or be put to sleep...who are we loving then...OURSELF! You have a car and you love it...until it breaks and we get a new one...that is something material so it can be broken and replaced...we again love ourself to get what we want. We love sports or activites that we play in...until you get hurt and have an injury that stops you from playing...so we give that sport up because we love ourself.
Now the tough part relationships...we have to love ourself the most in any relationship because what is love anyway? Ever read the dictionary"love: warm liking or affection for a person, sexual affection or passion". Now for what really happens to feel those emotions, it is a chemical overdose produced by the brain and that soup of chemicals is as addictive as crack or any other drug.
So now everyone is thinking "oh poor thing has been hurt" yes I have been until I found out about the human mind and the drug company inside us. We really and truly love the WAY we feel when we are with someone that pushes those buttons and when those buttons are not being felt again we fall out of "love " with the other person. In reality we "love" ourself and the feelings that our brain produces. Divorce rate shows this even more now....instead of working to keep a healty relationship with fun and excitment we sink into a rut...same old,same old...our relationship becomes boredom and then it is doomed. So many women say "I love him but I am not in love with him anymore"...translation...I am bored....sex sucks...you are a mamas boy grow up grow some balls...or my favorite"I just don't feel something when I am with him anymore"the list could go on and on.
So when you dream of "true love" or "soulmate" it is a myth, a fantasy, what you really have to learn is that "I love me and I love me so much I am open to allow someone else inside MY ring of love". So that is it.
How does it work...I love me! When I am with you I love the way I feel around you. When we are being intimate I love me so much I want you to enjoy our time together and we both will feel really great in sharing ourself with each other. I love me feeling this way because of the way you smile toward me. I love the way I feel when we hug each other. BUT then when you are loving yourself and someone lies to you we do not like this feeling this is not a feeling I am going to allow...time for you to go! The list can go on and on hopefully you are catching on to the pattern here. That is it in a nut shell. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 8:30:48 PM | | we are all weak, and all strong in our own way. everyone is right ;and everyone is wrong. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 10:40:36 PM | Dancecard says:
"I'm glad ~ I'm free from this roster behavior ~ I receive more ladies attention now then ever before ~ which is just another plus ~"
and I suppose he means "rooster."
If that's what he means, I agree. I have outgrown trying to live up to what other people thought I should be, and yes, I was called "the Marlboro Man" once, oh so macho.
Now when I see guys with "rooster behavior," strutting around showing to the world about how oh so manly they are, I see how ridiculous and pathetic they really are in many cases and I am really glad I got free from all that cr@p.
And yes, just as Dancecard says, I too can report that I now get lots more attention and respect from females. I am sexier than I ever was, and enjoy it, and lots of women find me attractive. I have absolutely no regret for having succeed in shaking off the conditioning that had governed my life back when I really thought you have to live up to a John Wayne image that people will admire.
One more thing. I think a lot of males take a long time to learn that the foremost sexual organ is not the genitals but the mind. It's very rewarding to take the time to get inside the thinking and the feelings of a woman, and I think women who have brains and feelings are delighted when you do. All the other stuff such as going to bed then falls into place naturally and without effort. You discover what wonderful people women are when you get rid of that gender barrier and see every woman as a unique human being, not a prize or a trophy but a person. When you give up pursuing and just encounter women as they are, they really do respond. So just don't try so hard. Let things happen, it's ALL good.
I hear some people complaining about how difficult it is to meet somebody. I shake my head at that. FACT: It is the easiest thing in the world. Women quit fearing you when you quit pursuing them like objects to be captured. I think people screw up by living in expectations and placing expectations on others and on themselves. What woman wants to be stuck with the responsibilioty of living up to your expectations? Maybe we can start just accepting everybody as exactly what they are, beginning with yourself.
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/8/2008 10:40:44 PM | | Your heart is what your life is all about.C,mon how many times has your heart told you something then you let your brain get involved and things mess up.Your gut feel is your heart ---protect it dont give it away it is who you are.-yes | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/17/2008 3:00:56 PM | totum_spirit said so very well:
So when you dream of "true love" or "soulmate" it is a myth, a fantasy, what you really have to learn is that "I love me and I love me so much I am open to allow someone else inside MY ring of love". So that is it.
It's hard for me to argue with this point. In my gut I believe this completely. But the more I date, the more I'm sensing that most people don't (want to) believe this to be true, because it ruins our fairy-tale dreams of living happily ever after. 
It's kinda like a James Bond film is no fun if you start applying the laws of physics to it, so you just ignore that part...
The message you wrote is one that comes out of "The Road Less Travelled", which explains why the people who believe this to be true are mostly alone...!  | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/17/2008 3:08:19 PM | | I personally wouldn't open up to a potential mate so quickly in a relationship. I don't mind sharing, but I think it would put some people off if you started bearing your soul in the first meeting or two. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 3/17/2008 4:26:30 PM | To: Fra59e and Dancecard
I share the same opinion as both of you. I learned that my macho and overbearing attitude was my way of over compensating for a lot of pain and anger that I was forced to concealed because it wasn’t manly to express those feelings. When I started to actually allow myself to feel and stop living according to preconceived conditioning, that’s when I became me and I have never been happier and more alive! I can say with confidence that this does not make me an emotional weakling or a push over, au contraire , it allowed me to expand my understanding of what it truly means to be a real human being.
To the gent that talked about Testosterones:
Testosterone levels have nothing to do with how I am today, because my transformation as I like to call it took place over 15 years ago and I’m 47 now. I can probably sell my excess testosterones that I carry around and make a good living from the sales. 
A woman that can not accept my masculinity which includes my tenderness, compassion, sensitivity etc. would not be worth my time. I'm perfectly content and happy as I am and will not change.
To the OP: Be yourself, find your balance and peace with who you are as a human. | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 4/22/2008 2:08:38 PM | 
i have opend my heart and yeah it get ripped out everytime i think i just keep it out and see what happens.............with each person and hopefully someone will take care of it...... | |
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| Men are not always strong...
Posted: 4/22/2008 2:58:09 PM | Women aren't always strong either. I believe the trick is to guard your heart until you know what's going on....Love takes time, getting to know someone...takes time. Enjoy yourself. | |
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