| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/15/2009 8:09:03 PM | Sorry get very irrate when people talk rubbish.
When I ws involved in the armed forces, we had something to fight. We had the Russians.
I could not imagine joing the armed forces now. They are social workers with targets on their heads and a lot of the population (me included doesn't support any of the wars they are in).
I got the hump when family members were sent to the Balkans. Afganistan could sink into the desert and I would not care. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 12:37:10 AM | Warren with every respect you seem to be rather biased and your refusal to see anyone elses point of view at all points to that.
You are refering to "the british armed forces" as a solid thing that is not made up of individuals which simply isnt true.
There is racism and sexism, for example, in every profession and whether you like it or not, not everyone in the armed forces is pure, wonderful and there only to be wholesome and rescue puppies from the line of fire.....
As for the laughing at propoganda... erm most large organisations DO USE IT! Not seen the advert about free dental and health care and wages of £16?? Of course they arent saying "well actually we will send you to vile places and expect you to possibly be killed for a war over oil" are they?
Back to the OP, i would be devastated if my son joined the army in 3 years time and yes, i would do everything i could to disuade him from doing so. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 2:22:53 AM | MR GOOD MAN?????
You talk the talk, i have walked the walk,
I made the choice at 16 years old, I made the choice to volunteer, i made the choice to be one of the many to stand up and be counted,
I thought for myself at 16, think about it all everyday.
What is your contribution to the world, reading an article written by a journalist with a conspiricy theory?
Put up or shut up! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 4:42:02 AM | I think most blokes join up for personal reasons rather than ideological ones. My dad was ten years in the Marines. He'd always wanted to be a soldier and when his home situation turned bad-**stard of a stepfather-he joined up.
Once in the field, it seems like professional pride-both in yourself and your unit- and looking out for yourself and your mates that are the motivating factors that make you fight.
I'd be interested on hearing what any ex-servicemen have to say on the subject. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 7:14:51 AM | POST 71...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_KmWbKJ8CyY 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4474532585083478738
No need to explain which one fourth of the nation you belong too..  | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 7:25:55 AM | | Hi my son joined the army 2 and half years ago, and was sent to afghanistan last may for 6 months, he's not long back what a bloody worry it was, he's 21 this year, and the things he's told us about, no young guy should ever have to do or see any thing like this, its like a horror movie, the gi erment should let them all get on with it and get our boys out, all of them, he was staying in the army, but after what he's seen and done he now wants out, another 2 years to go, so hopefully he will come home alive and not in a box, | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 7:33:59 AM | | my sons in the army... i did not like him joining... hes frontline but its his choice to do so, so i stand by him... i dont think thay get paid anoath for what thay do... if you join the army, the training is tuff, but there again it needs to be... my sons been in the army now 2years, hes allready done iraq 3months that was after training,then bosnia, then kenya, now getting ready for afghanistan in september, he will be there for some time, away for chirsmas this comeing year, i try not to think aboat it to much, but its worring, as a mum of a very young man... god bless all our trops.... | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 11:17:23 AM | I really can't believe in some peoples naivity at times.
Does it not seem strange that the very people America funded for years, namely Suddam and the Taliban were then the same who turned out to be the bad guys.
Does anyone doubt the duplicity of the USA and British governments?
Oh well, if you're interested?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k1oPEfa9Lws
http://ivaw.org/faq
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e0JCJ4pIFEw&feature=related
The truth will set you free.
Oh! & Warren, please explain how you 'dehumanise the specific enemy soldier into a target'
The propoganda of hate and fear has always being the tools of those who seek to control.......So what's changed in the last 20 years? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/16/2009 8:41:35 PM | hahaha Glen, you are a funny one.
Sorry mate know your history and I will listen.
Actually do you remember a war in 1973 when the Arabs attacked Irsrael.
The arabs were so incenced by the zionists they put up the price of oil by limiting supplies.
I know enough history that our media does not tell. I was workmates with ex desert rats. The same men who were being grabbed at night in Palestine and hung by the neck from olive trees. The Hotel bombing that decimated our officers (etc) in 1946. War weary, we left them be.
The work of Palestinians? NO. "We" left Palestine after the war so they can make peace. Then the Jews came from the US with money, the bullet, the bomb and the bulldozer and took the land of Palestine as there own and called it Israel.
The last 400 years have shown no-one is above territorial lust.
Many arabs have their sights on the West for takeover. Read the koran. It tells them how. "By the wombs of our wives". They also gloat the fact on forums like these.
Youtube "what islam is not".
So we let them in  The BNP are right. Bring our troops home! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/19/2009 3:11:41 AM | "The propoganda of hate and fear has always being the tools of those who seek to control" for this read religion.
'dehumanise the specific enemy soldier into a target' quite simple kill him before he kills me. until you become part of it you will never understand.
missing the point a little here..................we have freedom of speech, our grandfathers earned it with their lives.
muslims do not have this, they never will, religion dominates and dictates every moment of their lives, they are taught from 1 book, interpreted many ways by many people.
funding...................religion funded the original war, the crusades were funded by the catholic church, and the heads of europe, a little story book called the bible has caused more death and suffering than anything else in world history, because it was interpreted in many ways by many people.............................
If you look at youtube for truth you have less grey matter than i thought. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/19/2009 6:30:29 AM | If I had kids, I would have no quarrels with them joining the forces but only quarrels with the validity and legality of them being lumbered in another country with bears little or no threat to the UK.
Honestly, what are British troops doing in Afghanistan in the first place, to solely stop the illegal trade of opium? I have my suspicions as to why they are there (as well as Iraq obviously). The cost of supporting troops abroad in another country no doubt is astronomical, where does the money come from? Democracy will never work in the middle-east for a very long time, the west needs to stop inflicting and forcing that philosophy to avoid dire consequences, thus respecting traditions and opposite political beliefs.
Would it not be more (cost) effective to use a large bulk of British forces in our homeland to support the police with various current issues such as illegal immigrant, anti-social behaviour, community support and policing? Instead of being a poodle on a leash to USA. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/19/2009 5:31:43 PM | You Hum it.
You do make me laugh.
quite simple kill him before he kills me
But that's the point, if we hadn't invaded THEIR counties, it would be a lot harder to kill our soldiers.
Lets look at it from the Talibans point of view.
They had no real army, no air force, no heavy artillary and they've just outlawed the production of opium....Thier main source of revenue.
So is it not inconceivable to you to believe that the Taliban aren't stupid and really didn't wish to enrage the most sofisticated, well equipped armies on the planet, bringing about their ultimate distruction?
Why did we have to invade Afghanistan? Why not work with the Taliban to eradicate the training camps? Was every diplomatic avenue utilized before we INVADED? Why, oh why did we not learn from the mistakes made by the USSR just a few short years before when they were forced to leave with their tail between their legs with over 30,000 casualties.
I'm not surprised to hear you bring up the tired old religious BS, it's what most soliders are drip fed.
Let me tell you, all wars are about conquest, nothing more. The ruling elite just use religion as a form of control, on our side just as well as theirs.
It's a shame you don't choose to watch the videos I posted. The first one is a very well put together documentary that was aired on Sky one.
The second link is a vets website.
None so blind as those who will not see. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/20/2009 4:00:11 AM | You have no idea what our forces are fed, you are not in our forces.
Taliban would outlaw breathing if they thought they would be left alone.
their drugs invaded our country and our people, would you prefer to allow the drugs to be shipped in freely, instead of us doing something about it,
they've just outlawed the production of opium....Thier main source of revenue
THEY ARE STILL PRODUCING IT!! they pass a law and you believe it??????
they also said men can shave, they still get beaten/tortured for doing it, Taliban are well respected for their human rights!!
Sky 1........Murdoch is well known for his truth telling.
Wake up Mr Good!! have you seen what these drugs do to people and their families?
Glad i make you laugh..........hope you're enjoying the joke..............it's on you.
not responding to any more of your blinkered opinions.
have a good life | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/20/2009 2:46:19 PM |
THEY ARE STILL PRODUCING IT!! they pass a law and you believe it??????
Again, I'm laughing.
In 2007 Afghanistan produced their largest ever crop of opium yet.......hold on though.....Isn't Afghanistan under UN control now?
So, to recap....In 2001, Afghanistan had NO opium crop at all because the Taliban deemed it illegal as it went against their religion......Yet now, under OUR control Afghanistan is back in full production.
Who needs to wake up exactly? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/20/2009 3:04:31 PM | | If I was 18 I think I would join up for the career and experience. Most people feel immortal when young and probably more chance of being 'killed' in UK driving on new license or street brawls and stds. Don't have a nipper but would respect their choice and keep my heart in my mouth. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/20/2009 4:49:58 PM | ok, the british army is considered one of the finest in the world due to its fantastic training program. the troops are consided one of the best in high intensity scenario's where diplomacy and tact is required when the american army prefers to adopt the "shoot first" ideal. this is why uk troops are doing alot of un peacekeeping.
mrgoodman
'dehumanise the specific enemy soldier into a target' Its the same kind of training a police officer gets when they join so19. or other armed response units.
mrgoodman
But that's the point, if we hadn't invaded THEIR counties, it would be a lot harder to kill our soldiers.
Lets look at it from the Talibans point of view.
They had no real army, no air force, no heavy artillary and they've just outlawed the production of opium....Thier main source of revenue.
So is it not inconceivable to you to believe that the Taliban aren't stupid and really didn't wish to enrage the most sofisticated, well equipped armies on the planet, bringing about their ultimate distruction?
Why did we have to invade Afghanistan? Why not work with the Taliban to eradicate the training camps?
good question, here's an answer
In 1996, Osama bin Laden moved to Afghanistan from Sudan. He came without any invitation from the Taliban, and sometimes irritated Mullah Omar with his declaration of war and fatwa to murder citizens of third-party countries, and follow-up interviews,[99] but relations between the two groups became closer over time, and eventually bonded to the point where Mullah Omar rebuffed its patron Saudi Arabia, insulting Saudi minister Prince Turki and refusing to turn over bin Laden to the Saudis as Omar had reportedly promised to earlier.[100]
Bin Laden was able to forge an alliance between the Taliban and his Al-Qaeda organization. It is understood that al-Qaeda-trained fighters known as the 055 Brigade were integrated with the Taliban army between 1997 and 2001. Several hundred Arab Afghan fighters sent by bin Laden assisted the Taliban in the slaughter at Mazar-e-Sharif.[101] Taliban-al-Qaeda connections, were also strengthened by the reported marriage of one of bin Laden's sons to Omar's daughter. During Osama bin Laden's stay in Afghanistan, he may have helped finance the Taliban.[102][103] Perhaps the biggest favor al-Qaeda did for the Taliban was the assassination by suicide bombing[60] of the Taliban's most effective military opponent mujahideen commander and Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Massoud shortly before 9 September 2001. This came at a time when Taliban human rights violations and extremism seemed likely to create international support for Massoud's group as the legitimate representatives of Afghanistan.[60] The killing, reportedly handled by Ayman Zawahiri and the Egyptian Islamic Jihad wing of al-Qaeda, left the Northern Alliance leaderless, and removed "the last obstacle to the Taliban’s total control of the country ..."[104]
After the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Africa, Osama bin Laden and several al Qaeda members were indicted in U.S. criminal court.[105] The Taliban protected Osama bin Laden from extradition requests by the U.S., variously claiming that bin Laden had "gone missing" in Afghanistan,[106] or that Washington "cannot provide any evidence or any proof" that bin Laden is involved in terrorist activities and that "without any evidence, bin Laden is a man without sin... he is a free man."[107][108] Evidence against bin Laden included courtroom testimony and satellite phone records.[109][110] Bin Laden in turn, praised the Taliban as the "only Islamic government" in existence, and lauded Mullah Omar for his destruction of idols like the Buddhas of Bamiyan.
mrgoodman ... again
I'm not surprised to hear you bring up the tired old religious BS, it's what most soliders are drip fed.
Let me tell you, all wars are about conquest, nothing more. The ruling elite just use religion as a form of control, on our side just as well as theirs.
you ever seen a kouran? ever read one? as you hum it did mention. the difference is their whole society is religeon based, don't try to tell me ours is too, because that is simply untrue. and go on, tell me that ww2 was all about conquest. maybe from nazi germany, but not form the allies. the only thing i can agree with you is on the opium front. the taliban has partly re-emerged though so watch this space.
someone also mentioned about crappy pay, yes the army doesn't seem to have the highest wages, but all your living and accomidation is much cheaper, when your out on duty you pay minimum of tax and see probably see alot more money than somebody earning a good few grand more than you.
and then, if someone signs up for the army then surely said person must realise that like with nearly any job their is a risk of death. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/20/2009 7:43:55 PM |
yes the army doesn't seem to have the highest wages, but all your living and accomidation is much cheaper, when your out on duty you pay minimum of tax and see probably see alot more money than somebody earning a good few grand more than you.
Unless theyve very recently changed the tax rules then all soldiers will pay the same NI and income tax as anyone else for the same tax band.
Some of the young soldiers may well save on costs of living in a bedsit, but then a lot of young people live at home much later these days!! And to be honest pay as you dine on base isnt that cheap, and for the older career soldiers, most of them have a home so pay all the usual bills as well as a small amount of accom on base and food, so technically on balance probably worse off.
For the trades the pay is broadly equivilent to a civilian trade but with an added "x factor" (MoD's term not mine!) to take into account working hours, separation etc plus operational welfare package for being away. No where near as good as civilian contractor expenses or PMC rates!!
Most of the pay rates are fair, except the basic private soldier rates are low in my opinion. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 1/22/2009 2:36:22 PM | | Many issues have been raised under this subject and they can't possibly be addressed collectively. Nevertheless, history shows that in recent years, at least, out armed forces have acted as diplomats as well as soldiers and have succeeded where all else has failed - if not incited! I take my hat off to them. I am humbly reminded that they secure my welfare/peace............but at what cost? So many have been horribly injured/maimed. There is little 'compensation' - it goes with the 'job' - yet there are still those prepared to 'choose' to do so. Thank God. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 2/9/2009 2:46:03 PM | | I never usually say anything in forums but just had to this time. I have a son in Afghanistan at the moment and i object to anyone saying they are brainwashed, he is an extremely intelligent man and is doing the job he was trained to do. It is awful and extremely worrying but i am also very proud of him. No one wants their child to go and fight a war and i never imagined mine would but it is a bit insulting to imply that they don't have minds of their own. Everyone has an opinion on the subject and that is their right i wouldn't knock anyone for how they feel on the subject but it would be nice if some people didn't act like others are wrong just because not everyone agrees with them, if you have someone actually over there it puts a whole different light on things . I'm not saying what is right or wrong i don't know the answer to that,but give the lads some respect, i think they deserve it for doing a horrible job in a crap situation | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 2/9/2009 3:00:23 PM | Join the army and go to Afghanistan???
Yes....My son has......he's a soldier...thats what soldiers do.
to me exceedingly simple....its his choice of career...he will serve where he is ordered
if he wants to have choice's in life.....leave the army.
Politicians make wars...soldiers dont
want to end the war...change your politicians
dont agree with war...dont join the army
want to change the way war is fought....become god
Soldier's soldier because that is what they want to do, no-ones forced to stay in, believe me, if you want to go...the army doesnt want you. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 2/9/2009 3:04:44 PM | I find that funny "The right ideals"... how can the right ideal be going to help fight a war and kill people. Iraq and Afganistan have both turned into a complete mess, hence why the majority of the public was against the war in the first place.
All we're doing over there is creating more hate towards the west. Hudreds of thousands f innocent civilians dead... tell me how would you feel if the US cam over here and bombed your daughters wedding?
I'd almost tempted to say we should start teaching jainism from birth.... if I wasn't an anti theist. | |
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tm1971
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Joined: 5/22/2009
Msg: 99 | |
| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 2:07:10 AM | Why are we still there, gordon brown has no clue, does not care about what kind of situation he is placing these men in. According to him everything is going to plan, hmmmmm 8 killed in 7 days. They do not have the right equipment to be fighting this war and hence lives are being lost.
Why not leave the Taliban to it? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 2:19:08 AM |
When I ws involved in the armed forces, we had something to fight. We had the Russians.
Anyone who fought in the Crimean War is long dead.
Afganistan could sink into the desert and I would not care.
I agree.......
For a start who ever has taught him to hate "pakis" and use such offensive terms is quite plainly ignorant as its not even an accurate racial slur for people in iraq and afghan!!!!
Wasn't the term being used in a generic fashion?
After all, the 'Pakis' are on the same side as us in this mess (bless them), and they are suffering greater casualties.
But that's the point, if we hadn't invaded THEIR counties, it would be a lot harder to kill our soldiers.
But didn't we invade because they were training people to kill our people here in Britain?
Why are we still there, gordon brown has no clue, does not care about what kind of situation he is placing these men in. According to him everything is going to plan, hmmmmm 8 killed in 7 days. They do not have the right equipment to be fighting this war and hence lives are being lost.
Why not leave the Taliban to it?
Saved me a lot of typing, there... | |
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