| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 2:49:05 AM | a neighour son got killed there last week only 18 not been in army long. what a waste of life  a neighour son got killed there last week only 18 not been in army long. what a waste of life
a neighour son got killed there last week only 18 not been in army long. what a waste of life
a neighour son got killed there last week only 18 not been in army long. what a waste of life a neighour son got killed there last week only 18 not been in army long. what a waste of life a neighour son got killed there last week only 18 not been in army long. what a waste of life a neighour son got killed there last week only 18 not been in army long. what a waste of life | |
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tm1971
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Joined: 5/22/2009
Msg: 102 | |
| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 3:00:58 AM | Actually Zeegary my dad fought the russians during the Angolan war in the 80's.
Everybody knows that the reason we went to war was predominantly a backlash to the tragedy we call 9/11, it was a matter of pride for the Americans and who can blame them.
But Sadam Hussein was toppled and executed, the Taliban is no longer a ruling factor in Afghanistan or are they? But it has become a snowball effect which is getting out of control, I have no idea why we are still fighting the Taliban. Why not just leave them to it, too many of our soldiers lives are being lost and at the end of it what are we to gain out of it? Is it to control the poppy fields as we all know that Afghanistan is the largest producer of heroin.
I just feel enough have been done and our boys should be brought back home, leave them to it. Like they say you can lead a horse to water but you can not force him to drink.
As for the bleeding hearts i would love to see you staring down at the barrel of a gun, what would your reaction be - fight or would you want to stand there and try and discuss it with them? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 5:35:10 AM | Talkabout repeating ya self msg 101...
Nice to see some have a rather jaded view of the forces.. I havnt got a 'trade' as such although prior to joining up i was a fully badged fireman... However since i joined 17 yrs ago the army has paid for my degree, a diving instructors ticket and my hgv c+e licence.
Its all there if ya want it..just some expect it on a plate.
As regards Afghan...well ive been there three times now..yes ive been injured but not badly and yes i am looking forward to going back after xmas. Only a small minority actually go out n do the fighting....the rest ( like me now) are in instructional or support roles.
Lerts remember its a volunteer army......nobody has forced anyone to join..
'Take the Queen's shilling' etc etc | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 5:36:18 AM |
Anyone who fought in the Crimean War is long dead.
Actually, oldest surviving participant in the Crimean war died only 5 years ago. Cigar to the first person to name him without using Google! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 5:46:23 AM | Speaking as an ex soldier who was sent to Saudi Arabia 4 days after Saddam invaded Kuwait, Everyone who joins the army in the current climate knows exactly what they are getting themselves into, They have some of the best training, unfortunately not the best equipment but that is changing with public pressure on the Government.
Speaking from personal experience, i couldn't wait to get out there and do the job i was trained to do.
Yes its scary but it is also exilerating and at the end of the day, you could get hit by a bus or fall down stairs and be killed. There are risks in all aspects of life.
Everybody knows that the reason we went to war was predominantly a backlash to the tragedy we call 9/11, it was a matter of pride for the Americans and who can blame them.
It is a real shame that Al Queda (a CIA trained terrorist cell to take on the russians in Afganistan) had nothing to do with 9/11. That unfortunately was a false flag operation orchestrated by elements of the US Government to mobilise public opinion onto a war footing, allowing them to invade Iraq, Afganistan and ultimately Iran.
Thankfully most people around the world are not as gulible as they hoped.
It is the same principle that has been used for every major military engagement or incursion in the 20th century.
If you do some digging you will uncover a wealth of information on the net.
Please don't believe everything you see on the TV or in the popular media, most of it is just lies or spin.
The reason we are still in Afganistan is twofold, one reason is to protect the oil pipelines running from Iraq, through Afganistan and onto europe.
The other is to deny the Taliban control of the oil pipelines.
The poppy fields and production of heroin are unaffected by our presence. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:33:15 AM | I think it's very important for would-be service-people to educate themselves and get to the real reasons why we have an armed presence in places like Afghanistan in the first place. BEFORE they join up. Or during, I suppose.
Afghanistan is the source of over 70% of the worlds heroin. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:38:50 AM |
Afghanistan is the source of over 70% of the worlds heroin.
Are the army there to monitor the poppy fields then? There are political reasons why the poppy fields aren't being burnt down. If someone wants to join the army they can of course read up on the reasons why they might be deployed to a certain place, however with unemployment at high levels, perhaps a lot of people take the risks into account when hoping to make a decent life for themselves. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:42:03 AM | Paulinemab; I dunno? You'd better ask "the army" that, or the people who sent them.
You must have missed the pictures of U.S. troops in Humvees, guarding hashish fields in 2003/2004.
The war in Afghanistan is a farce, I find it hard to believe that some people still think Bin Laden held the U.S. to ransom with 19 buddies and some boxcutters, but oh well. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:43:16 AM | It's the same old story...working class and often not particularly educated young men (and women, to a lesser extent), being sent off by the establishment to lose their lives for the benefit of the rich who run society.
I don't know who is the more culpable, the establishment for exploiting the working classes; or the working classes for signing up! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 7:20:36 AM |
Paulinemab; I dunno? You'd better ask "the army" that, or the people who sent them.
You must have missed the pictures of U.S. troops in Humvees, guarding hashish fields in 2003/2004.
Yes I must. I just wondered why you mentioned about the heroin production in relation to people being deployed in Afghanistan. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 7:30:40 AM | Our service men and women join up because they want to serve their country. My son is in the forces . He is working class but is certainly not poorly educated or culpable. I find it offensive that anyone looks at our forces in this way.
Everyone should be proud that these men and women are willing to give their lives to protect others. They should have our respect, not ridicule.
My son will go where he is posted- its part of his job and he understood this fully when he signed up to join.
And before anyone says that he joined because he couldnt get a job elsewhere, as a last resort, then you would be wrong about that.
I am extremely proud of my son and all the men and women in our forces | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 10:07:44 AM | So, can someone please explain to me exactly WHY we are fighting away in Afghanistan ?
I heard some politicos on the radio the last couple of days trying to do so - and failing in my opinion . Are we there simply as buddies of the Yanks again ? We appear to have lost the hearts and minds of the afghan people now, and we will never win a guerrila war there - just ask the Mighty Red Army how they got along in the 1980's against the Taliban and the Mudjahadin ...
In fact, in our own history we have fought afghan wars THREE times since 1839 (1878, and 1918 ) with variable results. We had India to protect most of that time, so afghanistan was quite importantant strategically, but what the feck are we doing there now ? Fighting Al-Queda? come off it, thats like saying we went to war with Iraq to find and destroy WMD (hmmm.....).. Al-Queda is a nefarious group of loosely allied militant groups, doesn't exactly have a grand HQ does it ?!
This war is completely pointless .
Bring our troops home and leave the world's policeman to it ............ | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 12:27:01 PM |
So, if your son/daughter was thinking of joining up, and there is a good chance that they would be sent there, would you try and deter them from joining.?
As it happens my two older daughters and my son plan to join the army on leaving school, and I would be proud of them.... and as it is their decision it is one I would support for the simple reason is I am proud of my country and I install that same pride in my children... And to serve our country, even though it is an old fashioned ideal is something I would be proud of my children for. If my children do end up in the armed forces as they plan, they will be third generation to join one of the armed forces.... | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 12:34:33 PM | How is fighting a war in Afghanistan "serving our country" when the threat of terrorism in the UK is home grown?
Please someone, educate and convince me the "war" in Afghanistan is justifiable for our troops to be there as it allegedly was in Iraq.
Would it not be better to spend money improving security using our armed-forces in the UK? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 12:44:17 PM |
Actually, oldest surviving participant in the Crimean war died only 5 years ago.
It was a tortoise, or something...
Actually Zeegary my dad fought the russians during the Angolan war in the 80's.
Dare I ask which army he fought in? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 12:52:09 PM |
So, if your son/daughter was thinking of joining up, and there is a good chance that they would be sent there, would you try and deter them from joining.?
If she made an informed choice about the risks/benefits of what she was undertaking, then I would respect her choice. I would though try to dissuade her from the army and towards the RAF or the Navy. Mainly for family history reasons, my Dad's side were all RAF, my Mum's water based, also because I think boats and planes are far more fun than tanks. Just my opinion though and she would make her own choice with my blessing. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 7:00:05 PM | http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2009/07/deaths_of_8_british_soldiers_i.html
As regards Afghan...well ive been there three times now..yes ive been injured but not badly and yes i am looking forward to going back after xmas. Only a small minority actually go out n do the fighting....the rest ( like me now) are in instructional or support roles.
Pardon?
8 lives were lost at the weekend there and you posted on the 13th of July 2009 that you are looking forward to returning there.
Could you explain why please? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/13/2009 10:16:08 PM | We should not be their! But seeing as we are, they should send in the hoodies so they can see what real hardship is about! plus the less that come back the better  | |
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tm1971
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Joined: 5/22/2009
Msg: 119 | |
| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 1:35:22 AM | Msg 115 Zeegary my dad was in the South African Defence Force.
The war in Afghanistan from the UK's point is not valid, we joined the war to assist the US they stand the most to gain from it all but then again they seem to be better prepared/equiped for it too.
If my daughter ever wanted to join up when she was older I would support her if she wanted to join the armed forces, the armed forces has a lot to offer anybody who joins them. It is a sad fact that men are dying out there but that is the reason they joined, not for a free ride and to see the world but with the prospect of going to war.
I think it is disgusting how people can sit in the UK and wherever they are and critisize/judge these men and women who are fighting out there, they did not ask to be sent to a foreign country and to have to take up arms or a life. None of us could ever comprehend how it must feel for a soldier to kill another and I do not think that if put in that position you would stand there and reason with a man pointing a gun at you willing to kill you all for the sake of a religion, oilfield, poppyfield or in the case of the Taliban being allowed to oppress their own people and commit murder in the name of religion.
No we should not be there but a soldier has no say in it, it is down to our government at the end of the day and if Gordon Brown was any good at being prime minister he would ensure that they are better equiped for what they are facing out there. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 1:44:09 AM |
Msg 115 Zeegary my dad was in the South African Defence Force.
Thereby supporting my earlier comment with regard to Britain fighting the Russians.......the last time it happened was in the 19th century (given that we didn't actually engage with them in WW2). | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 2:20:37 AM |
None of us could ever comprehend how it must feel for a soldier to kill another and I do not think that if put in that position you would stand there and reason with a man pointing a gun at you willing to kill you all for the sake of a religion, oilfield, poppyfield or in the case of the Taliban being allowed to oppress their own people and commit murder in the name of religion.
tm1971 it is surprisingly easy to kill another human being with a rifle, you don't see them as human beings, they are simply targets and as they tell you on the ranges... "targets will fall when hit". The only thing you feel is elation every time one goes down.
The problems start for soldiers when civilians ask them about their experiences, and then look at them with horror when they find out they have killed people.
That is harder to deal with than actually shooting someone, doing that is just a test of skill. | |
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tm1971
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Joined: 5/22/2009
Msg: 122 | |
| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 3:11:38 AM | | Actually Zeegary the MPLA were supported by the Soviet Union and Cuba who were provided arms and men by the Soviet Union. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 3:15:12 AM |
Thereby supporting my earlier comment with regard to Britain fighting the Russians.......the last time it happened was in the 19th century (given that we didn't actually engage with them in WW2).
Fyi the UK/USA troops fought in the Russian revolution, in Russia, including the RAF fought to aid the White Russians, not a well written about event tho, | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 3:29:55 AM | Anyone who fought in the Crimean War is long dead.
Actually, oldest surviving participant in the Crimean war died only 5 years ago. Cigar to the first person to name him without using Google!
No cigar for me then?, but i knew the |US civil war had no surving members, so a haw well before that had zero chance of haveing them only 5 years or so ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_last_living_war_veterans
[edit] Crimean War
Col. R. E. B. Crompton (1845-1940) - Last and youngest British veteran. Also fought in the Indian Mutiny.[20]
Yves Prigent (1833-1938) - French sailor.[21]
Charles Nathan (1834-1934). Last French soldier, also saw action in Italy, Syria, Mexico and the Franco-Prussian War.
Sgt-Major Edwin Hughes (1830-1927). Last survivor of the Charge of the Light Brigade.[22] | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 4:31:44 AM |
we joined the war to assist the US... they seem to be better prepared/equiped for it too.
According to the Washington Post, as at 5th July the US had lost 4,322 lives in Iraq as opposed to 179 lost from the UK. Wiki accounts for the US deaths as 3,760 in combat and 540 as 'other (apparently 122 of these have been officially classed as suicide).' The numbers don't tally exactly, WP is more up to date, I believe.
In Afghanistan the US has lost 463 in combat and 214 'other,' again according to Wiki, whereas the UK has lost 184 (up to 7 of those may have been killed by friendly fire).
Although the US has far more troops than the UK, I think the figures show that while the US may be better equipped, the UK was better prepared. The British Tommy is second to none.
Either way, every loss is a life gone and a family bereaved. Whether one supports the war action or not, surely we have to ask, is it worth it? | |
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