| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 4:38:37 AM | | oh its well known the british army has far superior training over the american counterparts.. but the americans fancy the big weapons.. probably why they have a tendancey to perform friendly fires on the odd occasion. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 5:51:09 AM | I have a 4 year old son who for the past 2 years has said he wants to "be a pilot" (no prompting from myself)
I'm ex forces having left the other year (RAF) and I grew up in the Army, so if it was something my son wanted to do, who am I to stop him and wouldn't I be a hypocrite if I did?
Yes it's terrible that men and women are dying out there, I've lost some fantastic friends, but they are doing a job they wanted to do, a job nearly all of their loved ones say they wanted to do and enjoyed doing. No one forced them to join up, it's by choice. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 6:13:51 AM |
Our service men and women join up because they want to serve their country. My son is in the forces . He is working class but is certainly not poorly educated or culpable. I find it offensive that anyone looks at our forces in this way.
Everyone should be proud that these men and women are willing to give their lives to protect others. They should have our respect, not ridicule.
My son will go where he is posted- its part of his job and he understood this fully when he signed up to join.
And before anyone says that he joined because he couldnt get a job elsewhere, as a last resort, then you would be wrong about that.
I am extremely proud of my son and all the men and women in our forces
I have nothing to add to this I just thought that it was such a brilliant post that I wanted to see it again in another colour! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 6:44:06 AM | | To quickly add after seeing the above post. I am also educated, alot of the people I was in the RAF were also educated, a fair few with degrees. I joined the RAF because I wanted to make a difference, because I've known the military all my life and something I believe in, it wasn't a last resort. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 7:14:46 AM | Well, I have to disagree with you again "minesadry", just as I disagreed when you said sufferers of psychological trauma from 7/7 should not claim compensation.
So our service men and women sign up because they want to serve their country do they? As others have mentioned, fighting these ways in foreign lands is not serving the country, rather it is doing our country a disservice and costing an absolute fortune that could be put to far better uses. Those who have joined up in the last 8 years do so in the knowledge that they will be getting £16k+ a year (better than they'd get elsewhere) for fighting the UK's unjustified wars. They also fancy a bit of aggro with the Taliban in many cases.
Those who are educated to any extent (or have families who are) should realise that it's wrong that we have a presence there. If they still join up, knowing that we are wrongly there, then yes, they do share some of the responsibility.
I'm therefore not proud, and with the exception of some who joined up pre-2001, they don't have my respect.
Edit: lincsyellowbelly...when we talk in general terms of the troops, we are referring to infantry privates etc; not the officer classes straight from university. Just to make that abundantly clear! I'd be interested to know what it is that you "believe in" about the forces too. I think they're just a political tool led by the American (some would say Zionist) elite. Otherwise Saudi Arabia would have been attacked along with Iraq and Afghanistan. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:04:05 AM |
oh its well known the british army has far superior training over the american counterparts..
Er, the French in 1940 were more highly trained than the smaller German Army that then thrashed them, being trained to fight one kind of war and then tasked to conduct another is a recipe for self inflicted defeat.
but the americans fancy the big weapons.. probably why they have a tendancey to perform friendly fires on the odd occasion.
Er, the USA fancy that superiorty of firepower will dicate the outcome, probably why they have atendency to win any war they get into, and FF isa simply a product of all warfighting irespective of nation. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:26:58 AM |
Well, I have to disagree with you again "minesadry", just as I disagreed when you said sufferers of psychological trauma from 7/7 should not claim compensation.
I see you didn't feel any urge to disagree with crystal tips whos post I have repeated wholesale..............Interesting | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:30:52 AM | I disagree with that poster too if it spares your feelings...I'd have thought that would have been pretty self evident. Maybe I just disagreed with you a bit more for stating it was a "brilliant" post and wanting to "see it again". Regardless of your point of view, it couldn't be said to have been "brilliant"...!
I would have disagreed at the time it was originally posted, but hadn't been online until I posted the reply. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:13:31 AM |
So, if your son/daughter was thinking of joining up, and there is a good chance that they would be sent there, would you try and deter them from joining.?
I'll probably get bashed for this, but I've drummed it into my two sons for a while now that I'd be very disappointed in them if they joined the forces and that I'd be happy for them to do anything other than that!
I'm sorry, but I don't want my sons to die or be seriously injured because of some argument over greed. Hopefully, in the process of explaining this to them, I've also taught them that greed is a terrible thing.
I have sympathy for the parents of these boys and girls that have died, but they chose to join an army in a time of greed driven war and I would assume, knew there was a possibility they could lose their lives.
I have much more sympathy for people who die attempting to save people than people who die killing people over someone else's issues!
I'm pretty sure this won't go down too well, but we seem to have forgotten that those British men that have died have probably killed or attempted to kill someone else's son/brother/father!
Heroes? Not in my opinion, I'm sorry. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:18:15 AM |
The reason we are still in Afganistan is twofold, one reason is to protect the oil pipelines running from Iraq, through Afganistan and onto europe.
The other is to deny the Taliban control of the oil pipelines.
Three-quarters of Iraq’s oil is exported by the Basra oil terminal in the south and the remainder via the Northern Pipeline leading from Kirkuk to the Turkish port of Ceyhan.
This information is quoted from the Gulf States Online Newsletter.
Neither of these Iraqi pipelines go anywhere near Afghanistan.
This information would, in my opinion, tend to render the analysis quoted as being fundamentally flawed....... | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:21:38 AM |
Heroes? Not in my opinion, I'm sorry.
Ok i respect you opinion and you right to express it.
Have you considered that they can be heroes in a bad/wrong cause tho?, given that the USA invaded and started a war, won it as they thought and wanted to goto Iraq now please, nothing left to blow up here, NATO went in to rebuild in what was then not a military theatre of note, only for that to change and no other NATO countrys willing to commit combat forces at the level the UK did.
You dont get to pick which wars you want to fight, you just have to turn up and do what you can with the toys someone else decides your allowed to play with, to me, that makes every last one of our men and women heroes, as the MOD has constaly underfunded and underesourced the entire operation from almost the get go. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:35:29 AM |
I'll probably get bashed for this, but I've drummed it into my two sons for a while now that I'd be very disappointed in them if they joined the forces and that I'd be happy for them to do anything other than that!
I'm sorry, but I don't want my sons to die or be seriously injured because of some argument over greed. Hopefully, in the process of explaining this to them, I've also taught them that greed is a terrible thing.
I have sympathy for the parents of these boys and girls that have died, but they chose to join an army in a time of greed driven war and I would assume, knew there was a possibility they could lose their lives.
I have much more sympathy for people who die attempting to save people than people who die killing people over someone else's issues!
I'm pretty sure this won't go down too well, but we seem to have forgotten that those British men that have died have probably killed or attempted to kill someone else's son/brother/father!
I couldn't agree more, I am very sorry for the families of the men who died and who have lost loved ones, but lets not forget there will have been plenty of innocent people on the other side who are also dead.
Soldiers are going to be there for another 10-15 years? It's a pointless war and people on both sides are dying needlessly, 8 men dead last week, it's about time they pulled the troops out, full stop. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:40:10 AM |
I'll probably get bashed for this, but I've drummed it into my two sons for a while now that I'd be very disappointed in them if they joined the forces and that I'd be happy for them to do anything other than that!
You won't get bashed by me, I would have exactly the same approach if I had children. The only ones who will disagree are the Imperialists, Colonialists, Zionists, establishment types and far-right "I'll lay down my life for queen and country" types.
I'm sorry, but I don't want my sons to die or be seriously injured because of some argument over greed. Hopefully, in the process of explaining this to them, I've also taught them that greed is a terrible thing.
Why are you sorry? It's all about greed, as you mentioned. But of course they tell the gullible public it's about preventing terrorism, which it won't. If anything it will "radicalise" more people to want to attack us!
Heroes? Not in my opinion, I'm sorry.
Why are you sorry again? They are not heroes to me either, quite the opposite. If you join the forces you are a trained killer for payment. If you join, knowing that the army you're joining is already engaged in fighting people in their own land as an invading force, you are aware that the flip side of it is that you might be killed yourself. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:52:48 AM | I really have to stop apologising!! People are always telling me I do that too much, in real life too!
I'd been thinking of posting my views on this thread for days, but didn't because I've read posts by people who have lost in this ridiculous and pointless war and really didn't want to upset those people.
Thank you pub genius for the assurance that I'm not alone in my opinion and I totally agree with this from your post above
If you join the forces you are a trained killer for payment
Killing is wrong, in whatever form and I certainly would do everything in my power to stop my own children becoming a killer, for payment or otherwise!
The hypocracy of the media coverage has driven me mad lately and I've had to turn off the news a few times to avoid the anger. There was one news article inparticular where it showed footage of our men and their men, both aiming arms at each other and accompanied it with the comment "our troops under fire in Afghanistan".......DUH!!!
These people are only the enemy because we've been TOLD they are. Those men are, like I said earlier, someone's son/father/brother, just like ours are. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 6:27:43 PM | | Not read any of this but I would discourage my sons to join in peace time, but an invasion or threat of one as in WWII that would be a different matter. Could that happen again? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 7:23:36 PM | I just watched the morning news and saw that 8 soldiers were lost from the UK...
and was saddened to hear 3 of them were only 18.... my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of all those young men.. yet to live really....
is the UK that short of troops that they have to send 18yr olds to a war in Afghanistan?...
a mate has a son in the aussie army, he joined at 16 , I think.. probably 20 now... he has done a few tours of Iraq... probably quite the soldier now....
the army won't post him to Afghanistan at this stage..... not experienced enough.....
and I'm glad to hear it..... it's his only child,.... | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:08:24 PM | I'm 22 and applied last year. I'm not the most patriarchal person in the world, but I do believe that a country like Afghanistan needs help.....from us and the other 1st world countries yes, but maybe not in the way we are doing it. Anyway, I applied and got rejected due to having a dodgy heart from when I was a kid, but my sentiment still applies. If it was safe and I could get the funding together I would be out there helping their kids and the next generation, teaching them that there is better things than fighting and growing drugs (despite how profitable it can be)
I went to Nepal in 2007 and ok we are not at war with them, and Gurkhas are in the British Army, their nation needs a lot of help due to corruption from their government and (ex) king.
So to answer the original question, if I was to have kids would I try and convince them from joining the forces, No, no way in hell. I have too many mates and family, and I think it would be more than disrespectful if you told your son/daughter not to join anything they wanted due to the risks.
Obviously if they were to die I would have to ask myself if I did enough to prevent the situation, but I know deep down at the end of the day it would have been their dream and their life, and I would be very proud that they decided to pick that line of duty. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:11:55 PM | Wafta you said "Heroes? Not in my opinion, I'm sorry."
Without these people, you would probably not be alive and if you were you wouldn't have the option to come online under a nazi government to express you're view. Heroes, yes. They died so people like you have the right to disrespect them. The freedom to do so.
its amazing how many people know this, but still decide to slate them | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 1:00:44 AM | Onions, I was referring specifically to those serving TODAY.
My feelings toward those who served in the World Wars is totally different. A lot of those men didn't have a choice, didn't sign up for a war and were forced to do so. They're the ones I have sympathy for and consider heroes, not the ones who choose to be killers for a living. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 1:12:34 AM |
Fyi the UK/USA troops fought in the Russian revolution, in Russia, including the RAF fought to aid the White Russians, not a well written about event tho,
I didn't consider that to be 'fighting against the Russians'. Various countries sent troops that engaged with the Red Army, which was not viewed at the time as being the legitimate Russian army. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 1:32:05 AM | "Oh its well known the british army has far superior training over the american counterparts.."
How and why?
" but the americans fancy the big weapons.."
Do they?...
" probably why they have a tendancey to perform friendly fires on the odd occasion."
Like the British on their friends in US Airborne uniforms in Operation Huskey...Or the British in WWI...(Tendency, not tendancey) | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 1:48:53 AM | | I'd be heartbroken if my 18 year old son joined the army. He was encouraged to become an air cadet at the school he used to go to but he joined the rowing team instead. My heart goes out to the families who lost their sons recently and the innocents on the other side. Knowing my son came within a whisker's hair to being stabbed in the stomach a couple of months ago over a mobile phone, that would have been pointless enough, but to give him my blessing to join the army would be like giving him permission to die for another pointless cause if he was sent to Afghanistan. We are all seeking purpose and meaning in life but life seems to lose all sense of meaning in war and the cause in this one seems lost too, if there ever was a just one to begin with!! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 3:01:21 AM | I've told my son that I would lock him up rather than have him join the armed forces...
This doesn't however mean that I abhor those who are in service, it just means I couldn't bear to risk losing him in a war I may not agree with... Joining up is a career move taken by those in all walks of life and does not mean you are ill educated or a hired killer, or even a hero... It just means you are an employee...
The war in Afghanistan may be wrong in some peoples' view, the soldiers there may be uneducated oiks with a penchant for kicking Afghani butt, in some peoples' opinion... But to claim that all people who support our soldiers whilst they are fighting out there are
Imperialists, Colonialists, Zionists, establishment types and far-right "I'll lay down my life for queen and country" types. is a little elitist... I'd not consider myself any of those, yet I can and do support the troops, just not the reason for their presence..
There are myriad reasons for being in the armed forces, just as there are myriad reasons for supporting our troops whilst they are out there... I find it quite easy to support the troops and yet not support the war... It's a pretty simple separation in my mind... | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 3:27:20 AM | | i would join up and fight for this country and its people if we was being invaded by another country..but for afghanistan or any other country..nah..its got feck all to do with us..and our lads shouldnt be there..its such a tragic waste of british soldiers lifes as well..pull them out and bring them home... | |
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