| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 3:32:35 AM | | Suicide bombing kills far fewer people than conventional warfare. When you consider how many innocents have been maimed and killed in war on Afghanistan, I find it difficult to support our troops any more than I could support suicide bombers. In both cases, they have blood on their hands for reasons they've been brain-washed into thinking are worth dying for. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 3:58:37 AM | I didn't consider that to be 'fighting against the Russians'. Various countries sent troops that engaged with the Red Army, which was not viewed at the time as being the legitimate Russian army.
Yes i gathered that, but the War Dept, awarding gallantry medals and losing many more than Iraq and Afghanistan comined do, and so does edu of the UK, also once teh Czar was eceucted and the Reds controlled the state they were the legal and legitimate body and remain so today.
British naval officer, Cdr Cromie British ambassador at Petrograd, but is killed in an incident involving the Bolsheviks at the embassy.Royal Marines land at Vladivostok in the Far East, total losses 174 while in theatre. 1,000+ British troops that included Royal Marines, the 6th Yorkshire Regiment, The Royal Scots.
http://modern-war.suite101.com/article.cfm/allied_interventionists_in_russia#ixzz0LKBMyxDW&D
RAF flew 4500 combat missions, total RAF losses 64, RN lost light cruiser 'Cassandra" Marines land in Vladivostock to support White Rusiand, losses,minesweeper 'Sword Dance'sunk, minesweepers - 'Gentian' RN British minesweeper 'Fandango' and 'Myrtle' British destroyers 'Vittoria' torpedoed by Bolshevik submarine 'Pantera sunk by mine, RN Total losses 234 from (1 light cruiser, 2 destroyers, 2 small monitors, 1 submarine, 4 minesweepers, 3 coastal motor boats sunk by Red Russian actions) in addition to 7 subs scutteled to mprevent them falling into enemy
The British navy captured the Russian battleships Evstafiy, Potemkin, Tri Svyatitelya and loann Zlatoust
hands.http://www.worldwar1atsea.net/WW1CampaignsRNBolshevik.htm | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 7:37:21 AM | I would hope my children have been bought up well enough to understand how wrong war is and all it does is led to death and misery. I would do everything possible to stop them as i love them too much to see them commit suicide on behalf of their greedy fat government.
I agree with brown eyed, they are brainwashed and i too feel i cannot support British troops (I prefer to use the term British rather than ours as they are people at the end of the day, individual people even if they are brainwashed into believing otherwise) just as i cannot support the IRA bombers, Nazi's, suicide bombers, The Taliban or any other who take up arms against another human in the name of their government, money or religion. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/15/2009 8:13:01 AM | This is a subject close to my heart as my oldest son is with 3 Para and has just completed his second tour of Afghanistan. He told me they have contact (Army lingo fire fighting) with the Taliban every single day.
This is what he said when I chatted with him about it before he went on his second tour, and he tells me this is the attitude of all the special forces and other soldiers he has served with.
"Dad this is what I trained for, if I wasn't fighting in Afghanistan then I would be running up and down some shagging, cold and wet mountain in Wales all day!
Besides when we get back, I'm loaded because you cant spend any of your Army pay out there.
Also if I die then I die protecting my mates and doing the job I am paid for "
So I made him promise me that if anyone suspicious approached him and didn't respond to a challenge that he would shoot them -
because I can campaign to get him out of jail but I cant campaign to bring him back to life.
He went on his second tour with my blessing and I am immensely proud of him. Although my heart always skipped a beat when soldiers were reported KIA.
So my opinion is; if they want to go then let them go with our blessing, if NOT then dont join the Armed Forces.
His opinion is simply " BUTT-OUT CIVVIES" 
== Support Our Armed Forces ==  | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/16/2009 6:13:39 AM | Very few people support our troops out in Afganistan or Iraq.
It would be a completely different story if there was an invading army heading towards us from across the channel.
Soldiers are very level headed people by and large, They signed up knowing full well there is a chance that they could die doing the job they love and they do it willingly.
They not only protect our interests overseas but they are also willing to die to protect the people of this green and pleasant land where ever the threat comes from.
How many of you could say the same ??
How many of you would give up your life to protect your neighbour or the chavs hanging round your local shopping centres.
I think our support of the young men and women in the armed forces depends greatly on how close the threat is to us as a nation.
We should disagree with the policies of the Government we shouldn't take it out on the troops on the ground though. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/16/2009 6:29:29 AM | I think the OP was,
"So, if your son/daughter was thinking of joining up, and there is a good chance that they would be sent there, would you try and deter them from joining?"
I'm from a Military Background (Father, Cousins,and 2 Brothers-In-Law), so it came as no surprise when my eldest son said he was thinking of joining the armed forces, and asked my opinion. ....
My advice?...I told him that I wouldn't be happy if he was thinking of joining the Infantry..for 2 reasons; (a) He'd be nothing more than cannon-fodder. (b) At some point he'd return to Civvie Street, and there weren't many job opportunities for gunners! I advised him, that IF he were to join up, to get a Trade that would benefit him beyond his Service life.
I pointed out that the "glamorous" overseas postings were now very few and far between...unless it was to a war-torn country....and that, ultimately, he would need to be prepared to lay down his life...
He was probably about 15/16yrs old at the time, and we'd actually been watching a Documentary on Saddam Hussein and the Gulf War....I remember it distinctly, because it was the first time I'd seen him so passionate about anything...and the first time he'd ever sworn in front of me!!..He pointed at the TV and said, "Mum. I want to stop bast*rds like him"!!...I was, and still am, VERY proud of him.
Perhaps the Middle Eastern conflicts, and the reasons that our troops are there, ARE questionable, but without our troops we, as a nation, would be sitting ducks. Our troops are trained to do what they do without question because questioning can cost lives - their own, and their comrades. Whatever your Political views, our men..and women, are out their doing what they were trained to do, under extreme conditions. The very least we can do, is give THEM our support, and pray that our sons/brothers/fathers/uncles/cousins/nephews/wives/mothers/daughters/nieces come back in one piece. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/16/2009 4:47:19 PM | Repeating myself but... I really would like someone to answer my question.
How is fighting a war in Afghanistan "serving our country" when the threat of terrorism in the UK is home grown? Please someone, educate and convince me the "war" in Afghanistan is justifiable for our troops to be there as it allegedly was in Iraq.
I like to add - How many civilian lives have been lost at the hands of our invading forces in comparison to our military loses? Our are soldiers "heroes", really? They signed up to do a job in a foreign land which I fail to see imposes a threat to the UK, unless again... someone can explain to me other wise, I am open and willing to listen.
For example...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7502137.stm - 47 civilians killed
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1740538.stm - 3,800 civilians killed by US forces (2002)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/world/asia/21afghan.html 140 civilian deaths rejected by US forces
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7502137.stm The UN said last month that nearly 700 Afghan civilians had lost their lives in Afghanistan this year (2008)
In comparison the UK has lost 176 or so soldiers in the last... 7 years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8146327.stm
Please f**king wake up and stop succumbing to biased sensationalist media and military reports. What makes UK/USA soldiers more important and grieve worthy than of a native Afghani?
Why do the media label soldiers fighting in Afghanistan as "heroes"? How many UK soldiers have killed civilians? We will never know but the blood of civilians may be on your sons/daughters hands. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/16/2009 5:04:36 PM |
I like to add - How many civilian lives have been lost at the hands of our invading forces in comparison to our military loses?
I dont know if you spotted this, but the Taliban forces dress exactly the same as any other Afghani villager or civilian, as soon as the coalition forces acheive a military objective or victory, the bodies are wheeled out for the press and proclaimed "innocents".
Please f**king wake up and stop succumbing to biased sensationalist media and military reports. What makes a UK/USA soliders more important and grieve worthy of a native Afghani?
No death is less important than another, but each side tends to grieve for their own.
How many UK soldiers have killed civilians? We will never know but the blood of civilians may be on your sons/daughters hands
They are All civilians, when they arent setting roadside bombs and passing intel about troop movements, maybe the way forward would be to issue them with uniforms, just to help our troops spot the innocents, but hey, thats not how they wage war. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/16/2009 5:09:41 PM |
How is fighting a war in Afghanistan "serving our country" when the threat of terrorism in the UK is home grown?
Not all terrorists are 'home grown'.........wasn't one of the 21/7 'bombers' from Africa?
There are various terror training camps in Afghanistan.
What makes UK/USA soldiers more important and grieve worthy than of a native Afghani?
Serious question?
Why do the media label soldiers fighting in Afghanistan as "heroes"?
Because they are there defending this country.
How many UK soldiers have killed civilians? We will never know but the blood of civilians may be on your sons/daughters hands.
Define 'civilians' in an Afghan context. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 3:30:12 AM |
Repeating myself but... I really would like someone to answer my question.
How is fighting a war in Afghanistan "serving our country" when the threat of terrorism in the UK is home grown? Please someone, educate and convince me the "war" in Afghanistan is justifiable for our troops to be there as it allegedly was in Iraq.
Terrorism is a warfioghting tactic, if they had the mkil technolopgy and support mecansims they would use conventional warfare against us, since the Taliban train the islamics to use terrorism world wide, as part of their long bterm goal of replacing democraycs with an islamic state, its part of the process of how to chieve that goal, ergo, the USA invaded Afghanistn to reduce the military capacity of thye Taliban to wage conventional warfre and remove iots base of operations to train world wide terriosts. This meerly moved the Taliban to Pakistan rather than ended the problem.
This is not the same as Iraq which was a war of oportunity and the wrong solutiuon to the problem of SH, but the correct solution of how to retard the ability of states to sponser terrorism world wide.
I like to add - How many civilian lives have been lost at the hands of our invading forces in comparison to our military loses? Our are soldiers "heroes", really? They signed up to do a job in a foreign land which I fail to see imposes a threat to the UK, unless again... someone can explain to me other wise, I am open and willing to listen.
For example...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7502137.stm - 47 civilians killed
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1740538.stm - 3,800 civilians killed by US forces (2002)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/world/asia/21afghan.html 140 civilian deaths rejected by US forces
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7502137.stm The UN said last month that nearly 700 Afghan civilians had lost their lives in Afghanistan this year (2008)
In comparison the UK has lost 176 or so soldiers in the last... 7 years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8146327.stm
Please f**king wake up and stop succumbing to biased sensationalist media and military reports. What makes UK/USA soldiers more important and grieve worthy than of a native Afghani?
Why do the media label soldiers fighting in Afghanistan as "heroes"? How many UK soldiers have killed civilians? We will never know but the blood of civilians may be on your sons/daughters hands.
You forget that the UK killed 700,000 German civilians in ww2,( mostly p[ost the end of military need, as the last 6 months of the war saw the greatest loss of life) 10,000 french civilians during the invasion and liberation of France, wars are fought between societys not just the members of each partys armed forces. Or that the USA nuked 00s of 000s of civilians to help persuade the Jap Gov to surrender to the western powers, while knowing for certain that the entry of the SU would entail the Japs surrender in any event.
Vivilians die in wars, they allways have done. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 4:15:15 AM | Well im back there after xmas. My parent unit will be doing a tour and im slated to go at roughly the same time so will be good to catch up with the guys. If im honest then yes im looking looking forward to going.
Its what i joined up to do. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 4:37:10 AM | | lots of people here having a pop at our troops unless im reading it wrong. The guys that go out there have got real bollocks to do the job they do and i always wonder when i hear the "stop the war"folk how many of them would want protection from one of our soldiers if the need arose. Its like people that slag off the police, funny how they always ring them when they need their help. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 4:57:51 AM |
How is fighting a war in Afghanistan "serving our country" when the threat of terrorism in the UK is home grown?
It's a melting pot - if we weren't fighting them there we would be fighting them in London - don't forget we planted our flag when we invaded Iraq along side the US so we are "legitimate" targets in their minds | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 5:06:24 AM | I find it difficult to support our troops any more than I could support suicide bombers. In both cases, they have blood on their hands for reasons they've been brain-washed into thinking are worth dying for.
Statements of this kind sadden me - Can i remind you that the core role of the Army (in layman's words) is to do as the government tell them to do. So in case they are successful and deserve support.
If you don't support the war, then don't support the government but our returning troops miss out on many parades, and equipment for the lack of public presure etc. because they take the blame for foreign policy; it's not right. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 11:27:59 AM | 1) Taliban, Al'Qaeda etc military training camps are based around the world not just in Middle Eastern countries, attempting to wipe out training camps in Afghanistan will shift them to else where.
2) So it's OK to bomb/nuke/infiltrate a town or a gathering of people hoping that some people amongst the mass of civilians are actually Taliban people? You really think the Taliban would be dressed in a military uniform to identify themselves to UK/USA forces?
3) People in this thread are not having a go at the troops, they are just following orders. Political (ex)leaders (Bush & Blair) are partially to blame for this mess and loss of civilian life. I still fail to see how the label "hero" for a soldier in Afghanistan is justified but still, I have admiration for these people putting their lives as risk but for what purpose, I fail to see clearly.
4) We should instead, bring our troops back home, focus on improving our intelligence and defences against potential terrorist attacks on our homeland.
5) UK/USA forces invading an Islamic country will only feed the fire of anti-Westernism and provoke more attacks in the UK especially from home grown Islamic fundamentalists.
"Defending this country" means to me... is done at home... not in a foreign land.
6) MSG 166 - Umm, do you really think the Taliban have the man and military power to invade the UK and fight an actual war in London? Get real please, the Taliban are sporadic and dispersed as can be... hence labelled "terrorists". | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 12:18:50 PM | | Have a safe tour, selfloader.....My future daughter-in-law (WAAF) will be returning to Afghanistan in early December for her 2nd time...Despite the negative feedback in this thread, some of us DO support you, if not the politics behind the reasons you are there! x | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 12:21:36 PM |
Get real please, the Taliban are sporadic and dispersed as can be... hence labelled "terrorists".
And why are they labelled thus?
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 12:46:04 PM | | Looking at the pictures of the widows of this war in the newspaper today it reminded me that the greatest pain is borne by the families whose loved ones are lost. Also, I do feel sadness regarding the recent youngsters who died, especially as I have a son the same age. I admire the fact that these soldiers are doing something they feel passionate about even though in principle I don't agree with it. Whilst I agree that it is terrible to kill but in order to save more lives we must do so, I'm not convinced that by winning the war in Afghanistan is going to achieve that aim. How can any such thing be in the interests of humanity when its practice changes the meaning of humanity. No matter how good the consequences, is there not some point in saying that we simply do not have the right to destroy lives. People are not there to be manipulated as resources for someone's pet project! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 1:02:43 PM | From personal experience; the reason the average British Tommy is superior to many other troops is because they have to do the same job with sh*t equipment, and much less of it too.
Soldiers tactics have to be better just for them to survive. The British Army just doesn't have the recourses to call in air strikes every time they make contact with the enemy.
I saw a good pic of some Toms in Basra on the first day of fighting; Bayonets Fixed!
Not many armies actually use bayonets anymore but during the Falklands there were many bayonet attacks.
selfloader: I'll wave a flag for you
Keep yer head down mate. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/17/2009 2:13:29 PM | I can assure anyone that when we have to give the order 'fix bayonets' then things are getting rather desp. Regardless of who you are/rank/time in country/size of bollox etc its the one order we never want to hear nor give.
Thanks for the support though | |
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tm1971
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Joined: 5/22/2009
Msg: 173 | |
| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 7/18/2009 1:22:23 PM | | I have a very dear and close friend who will be going to Afghanistan and I will always support him and be proud of the work he does. If anything ever happened to him it would break my heart. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 6:22:04 AM | well i was a serving soldier for over 7 years and it sickened me to watch that anti-war demo when the anglains were marching thru the street when they came home . Burning the british flag , they should have been lined up and shot !!!!!
the army is a briiliant life for any1 wanting to join or if there kids do , i personally just got out because of the money but back out in iraq making proper money.
just wanted to say keep low , move fast and any soldier reading this will know what i mean !!!!!!!!
take care | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 8:10:35 AM |
well i was a serving soldier for over 7 years and it sickened me to watch that anti-war demo when the anglains were marching thru the street when they came home . Burning the british flag , they should have been lined up and shot !!!!!
So if you oppose war you should be shot? | |
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