| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 9:51:21 AM | | I wonder what all the people who are opposed to war would do if they had been living here when the second world war was being fought ,would they have gone to prison and suffered the shame of being a conscientious object slagging all the british armed forces of for fighting and bemoaning the enemy civillians being killed ,and yes i know Afghanistan and Iraq are not that type of war, the British army are just doing the job they were trained and ordered to do ,and losing a lot of their mates in the process , you see pictures everyweek of soldiers who have been crippled in the war do they moan no they do not I do not feel its right to slag them of | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 10:22:07 AM | I don't know of anyone that wishes to criticise the troops themselves.
Criticism has however been made against the (leader of our) government that lied to its people in order to send these same troops to fight.
No 'ifs', no 'buts'... we (the people and Parliament) were lied to by Blair and THAT is what many British people find hard to stomach.
No British person likes to see the death and/or injury to its young men.... but that doesn't translate into these same British people believing that these young men should ever be in a position where they can be killed or injured in the first place.
There are those that believe it is a just war and that is their belief, but I'm defending the right of those who don't believe it to be so to make a legitimate stance against the politicians that led us to war.
And what happens to the lying b ast ard that led our troops to war?
he's made a 'Peace Envoy' - it's enough to make many want to vomit!
AW54 (179)
I agree 100%
V (180)
Again, I agree (I was merely following the thread that tended to suggest criticism of the Government equalled criticism of troops, hence my use of word 'British') | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 10:30:26 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^^ Peter, then opposers should take their stance against the politicians that led us to war... our troops should not be abused in the streets instead.
My son goes in on 6th September, because he wants to be soldier, wants to learn trades, wants to travel, wants to learn skills that are not available in civvy street any longer for young people, I pray my heart is not broken in the name of these politicians. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 10:42:29 AM | No British person likes to see the death and/or injury to its young men.... but that doesn't translate into these same British people believing that these young men should ever be in a position where they can be killed or injured in the first place.
I would go so far as to replace "British people" with people.
There was a funeral for one lad near me, a fine sentiment I thought, until I walked through the graveyard behind the church. Uniformed soldiers were slouching and sitting about smoking and laughing with their guns casually left on the graves behind them. The casual treatment of fire arms, and disrespect for the graves was, in my view sickening.
\/\/\/\/\/\/
It was the guns on the graves that was the worst, they could have gone out of sight into the car park. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 10:50:05 AM | ^^^ Are these soldiers not allowed a cigarette and 'down' time?
I'm sure their deceased colleague would have only been to happy to have been sharing that cigarette and laughter. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 11:03:13 AM | | If you read back thorough all 9 pages you would see there has been some who have slagged them of ,what ever the pros and cons of being there ,looks like we will be there for a long time and its not just our leaders and USA, all leaders of the nato countries agreed to the mandate that the nato ISAF go to help the Afghan goverment ,28 nato members not just Blair and Bush | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 8/11/2009 3:48:07 PM | | I don't support this war and can't, although I am trying to understand the reasoning behind it which stinks. I understand why those who have loved ones serving in the war would be supportive though but I wonder whether they would be so supportive if they didn't have loved ones in the army. I know that soldiers are doing the job they were trained to do but they are setting themselves up to possibly die for something of no tangible value, either to the Afghan people or to the West. The fact is that the Taliban can probably fight a guerrilla war campaign indefinitely. Combative war is not the solution on terror in a prolonged war like this IMO. I don' t support the troops either as I don't support the cause and I wouldn't stand for a cause I didn't believe in. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 3:22:13 AM | ^^^ And they will continue to die, as long as we are there with a military force.
So, if your son/daughter was thinking of joining up, and there is a good chance that they would be sent there, would you try and deter them from joining.?
I have two sons, and I would be horrified if they wanted to join up, and would certainly try to dissuade them, for the following reasons.
1. The people who declare wars, are never personally at risk. They always send other people's sons and daughters to be maimed and killed.
2. The premise of "fighting for your Country" is flawed IMO, because typically those fighting will actually own none of said country, nor will they on their return. We all know who the country really belongs to.
3. In this particular 'war' we were there allegedly, because of the attack on the USA (9/11) supposedly orchestrated by Osama Bin Laden. My view is that if an individual or a group of individuals, commit a crime, they should be brought to justice. We shouldn't attack civilian populations to achieve this.
We didn't bomb Dublin when the IRA were bombing London.
So why are we bombing Afghanistan because of the alleged actions of a few?
Killing innocent women and children in the process..
"War! -it ain't nuthin but a heartbreaker...
War! -Got one friend, that's the undertaker.....!"
WAR! What is it good for?
Absolutely Nuthin!"
Edwin Starr
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 3:28:10 AM | I lost a cousin in March of last year. This Saturday just gone, my friend lost her husband in a bomb he was stepdad to her 8yr old son, married for 6yrs and she is pregnant (7 months gone).
I keep reading and hearing comments all over the net and newspapers such as "we'll they're joining up no ones making them" ""theyre not fighting for us, i didnt ask them to" etc just detracts from what an amazing job these men and women are undertaking. When we joined forces with others to stop terrorism the world over, that included Afghanistan.
Its rather awful to me that some people dont "mind" the armed forces they just want to pick and choose which wars they partake in.
I believe a couple of other posters have summed it up better but to me it seems as if the a lof of people here think the forces are much like the police, you hate them till you need them. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:22:01 AM | i am in the army i been in now for over 3 years
i have been 2 iraq
and very soon afgan
if any 1 joins the the army they are expected 2 o to war
tht wht a army is for?
my honest thougt on this is i would myself stop any1 joining there more then just going 2 afgan. a reason not to join pay is crap as well as respect from peeps in the street i h8 my job
i joined aged 17. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:23:02 AM | If you hate it.....get out,nobodys keeping you in are they! 3 years wow.......nothing like giving it a chance is there! Put your papers in and go get some crap civvy job.You joined the army for a reason im sure,what was that? Has that reason gone or priorities changed? As for poor pay......maybe you should have got up the ranks where the pay is very good! But that in itself tells its own story! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:01:38 AM | My son was accepted a few weeks ago but has been told that he shouldn't start his training until April, maybe sooner if someone drops out.
I hate the fact he has joined, he is only 17 and far too young.
As a parent i have mixed emotions, i feel so proud of him yet also terrified.
Why did he join?
He showed no interest in joining the army until earlier this year, he then tried to find work as he was staying on at school but hated it, noone are taking on apprentices now, he wanted to join the police but was told they aren't taking on for a few years now unless from ethnic minority groups to make up the quota numbers needed ( their words) he was completely disheartened, he has a couple of part time jobs but nothing with prospects and wanted to get a trade so this was his choice.
We discussed it at length, i tried to talk him out of it, even looked myself into jobs for him, got him on a college course for it to be axed due to no funding, he is adament this is what he wants to do, he knows it's not what i want for him but as a parent all i can do is support him, love him and hope nothing happens to him.
Hopefully by the time he has completed his training our boys will be coming home. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:19:16 AM | | Msg 188; I wouldnt hold your breath about the Forces being withdrawn in the next ten years! The Russians were there for 30 years before admitting defeat. We are there for the long haul and the people of this country need to realise that fact! Good on your son,i wish there were more like him, to many are willing to sit ,watch and criticise this war instead of getting behind their country or doing something about it......like joining up! | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:29:00 AM | It takes a certain mentality to want to join though Des, my son and others like him see joining up as a chance to gain a good career, protect their country and be all that they can be, but for others such as myself don't understand this war at all, why our troops are there, what can they achieve?
All i see are politicians playing god and using our troops as playthings to prove a point.
Every day there is news of more lives lost in the fighting, but my son just says that he isn't worried, he stands as much chance being killed in a car crash or a freak accident as he does being there, if he loses his life there it's been lost doing something positive, i wish we could all see it that way but some of us just can't. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:37:31 AM |
getting behind their country
Not everyone here are nationalist and imperialist right-wing types. If the country is in the wrong, as it is in this case, we'll say so...because we have a mind of our own. And as for "joining up", do you really think any rational person would? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:38:21 AM | | I understand that completely but the Forces are a good career choice these days,it opens up all sorts of oppertunites. Yes it does take a certain mentality to join,it is a chance for the youth of today to be seen to be doing something,feel a sense of acheievment and gain experiences of other countries .If my daughter wanted to join whens she old enough i would encourage her 100%.Ive been in 15 years now and i wouldnt swap my time in the forces for anything in the world, theres no other job i would want to do.Yes....like all jobs its got down sides but the good things by far out weigh the bad! We are fighting a war to stop the Taliban providing training grounds and protecting Al Quieda,who want to terrorise the western world on our own shores by bombing us and god knows what else they will come up with,we cant let that happen.....surely thats got to be worth fighting for? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:43:26 AM | | a bloke i know quite well was killed about a month ago in afghanistan..his dad is himself a ex sas hero and appears on tv shows quite often..and even though he was very proud of his son fighting for his country..he is fecking devastated at the loss of his boy..he looked like an old man at the funereral..even though they are doing us proud by getting out there and fighting for the country..its still a big waste of human life and real tragic.. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:07:49 AM |
even though they are doing us proud by getting out there and fighting for the country..its still a big waste of human life and real tragic.
Good statement sums it up really. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:39:07 AM | Been there, Done that.
I wouldn't try to deter someone based on the fact that they might have to do their job for real. My two tours were actually the best part of my short (4.5 years) in the army, and that is the point of the training.
I would point out that the 'New labour' government appears to be trying to destroy the armed forces stealthily by budget cuts and over-stretch, that 'the military covenant' (soldiers do their job, in return government looks after them and their families) has been replaced by reliance on Charities such as 'Help for Heroes', Save our Soldiers, British Legion etc. (great work on their part, but it shouldn't have to be provided by charity) | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/5/2009 1:21:04 AM | My son is due to go back there any day now, we discussed it at length and its what he really wants to do, I voiced my fears as did his girlfriend he assured us as best he could and I wished him a safe tour, not much else I can do.
BUT:
I would point out that the 'New labour' government appears to be trying to destroy the armed forces stealthily by budget cuts and over-stretch, that 'the military covenant' (soldiers do their job, in return government looks after them and their families) has been replaced by reliance on Charities such as 'Help for Heroes', Save our Soldiers, British Legion etc. (great work on their part, but it shouldn't have to be provided by charity)
This I totally agree with, the government helped to make this mess and should be fully committed in all respects, to the troops that they have deployed, they have even stopped feeding them unless they are on active service, whilst at home on the bases doing training and exercises, they have to pay out of their own pockets for meals, yet every asylum seeker that appears at our borders is guarranteed food and drink for the duration of their stay, convicted murderers are fed 3 times a day while in prison, what happened to even the most basic of rules about an army marching on its stomach?
Thats before we even consider the lack of body armour or decent kit.
If the government wont get behind our troops, then bring them home. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/5/2009 2:11:29 AM |
If the government wont get behind our troops, then bring them home.
You mean like spending 6% of GDP on defense which is consiered the norm when fighting major conflicts rather than the curent 2%, and has been for some time, all well and good but where is the money going to come from without causing political problems the governemnt simply is unwilling to face?.
One of Balirs legaicly is you cant fight major wars on a peace time budjet, which he was told before he started fighting wars of choice.
Second if we get out, we dont stop fighting, we only change *where* we will have to fight them, there is large number of fanatics who its not poss to comprimise with, so we either sit out there, kill them quicker than than they are repalced, where its realtivly easy for them to come fight our mil, or we come home, and wait for them to work out how to come here and kill civilinas in large numbers when they do work out which looks like the best place to cause mass casualties. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/5/2009 2:17:14 AM |
Second if we get out, we dont stop fighting, we only change *where* we will have to fight them, there is large number of fanatics who its not poss to comprimise with, so we either sit out there, kill them quicker than than they are repalced, where its realtivly easy for them to come fight our mil, or we come home, and wait for them to work out how to come here and kill civilinas in large numbers when they do work out which looks like the best place to cause mass casualties.
Great words. | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/5/2009 2:27:00 AM |
or we come home, and wait for them to work out how to come here and kill civilinas in large numbers when they do work out which looks like the best place to cause mass casualties.
Surely you realise that is going to happen regardless of where our troops are or how many Afghans are killed? | |
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| join the army and go to Afghanistan
Posted: 11/5/2009 2:33:26 AM |
Surely you realise that is going to happen regardless of where our troops are or how many Afghans are killed?
which means we should fight them wherever we find them, be it "here" or "there" or anywhere. | |
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