| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:52:25 AM | I'm sick of the theoretics.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8266084177723783638
Here you go, odd andy. Pitbull attacking a little kid. The dog wouldn't give up.
Imagine if you were there in real life.
You want more just google them.
Here's another one. Pitbull attacking a full grown man. Dog just keeps going for the throat.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7738648402252936420
And another one:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=399225328364567321 | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:52:30 AM |
No, of course it isn't. We'd have no way to know that. You act on the possibilities. On the level of threat.
I agree with acting on the level of threat, but not acting on the possibilities (anything is possible - that's a license to commit all sorts of acts that anyone would find disagreeable ).
Again, my argument here is against the earlier suggestion that you should be able to shoot a pit bull that's not acting threatening or aggressive...one that may be laying on the ground asleep for that matter, simply because it's a stray pit bull. Act on the level of threat, not on your inherent fear of pit bulls. They're not ALL bad, folks. Even if the breed in general is predisposed to me monstrous (and I don't dispute that,) not ALL pit bulls are monsters or will turn in to monsters. You can't shoot one that's not a threat simply because it's a pit bull.
And yes, they are the creation of man. 100%. We bred them from other breeds to get the most vicious, strong, killer animals we possibly could, in canine form, purely for an "exciting" (albeit illegal and heinous), dog-fighting event in the pits that a lot of people would bet on. That has nothing to do with why there are any other breeds. The fact is, that's the only reason Pit Bulls exist. It was a very intentional creation of man. Only it's now turned around to bite us. (no pun intended).
I had no idea that pit bulls were a "mutt" and not a pure breed of dog. Interesting. That still doesn't change my above argument / opinion, however. | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:53:27 AM |
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8266084177723783638
Here you go, odd andy. Pitbull attacking a little kid. The dog wouldn't give up.
Imagine if you were there in real life.
You want more just google them.
Your point? If I post a video (and I'm sure you can google plenty) of a minority attacking an innocent person would you agree that we should be allowed to walk around shooting minorities? | |
|
| |
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 12:09:24 PM |
Seems like Americans already run around shooting each other. So what's your point?
That posting that video adds nothing to the conversation and fails to make a point either for or against what's being debated here - nobody disputes that pit bulls are capable of great violence. I'm simply disputing the view held by some here that all pit bulls should be killed on sight.
Did you even watch the video?
See above. | |
|
| |
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 12:51:28 PM |
I agree with acting on the level of threat
my argument here is against the earlier suggestion that you should be able to shoot a pit bull that's not acting threatening or aggressive
the breed in general is predisposed to me monstrous (and I don't dispute that
Yes, pit's have a nasty reputation, can be abnormally violent, and can kill you. I don't dispute any of that
 Sad. This has pretty much regressed to a childish "I can still win this argument" scenario
Recognize any of the above quotes Andy? | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 12:58:14 PM | Not at all. Again, one is not justified in shooting ALL pit bulls on site. So they're known to be vicious - does that mean they're ALL vicious? Of course not. So , act on the level of threa.t That doesn't mean shoot a dog that's taking a nap or licking your feet
Which of my above quotes do you feel contradict my position? | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 1:42:40 PM | (wanted to jsut edit this onto my last post but couldn't)
Look, there's really no "argument to be won" here, it's a matter of simple logic.
It is an objectively observable, verifiable fact that many pit bulls live out their entire lives without ever exhibiting any aggression towards a human being. It is therefore logically (and morally) indefensable to claim that *ALL* pit bulls should be killed for reasons of "safety."
I honestly don't understand what the disconnect is here. | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 3:13:46 PM |
Not at all. Again, one is not justified in shooting ALL pit bulls on site. So they're known to be vicious - does that mean they're ALL vicious? Of course not.
Oh the drama, as if people are actually advocating going around randomly shooting pit bulls.
If there were a law passed against them the most likely route to phase them out would be mandatory castration. What's the problem there? | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 3:22:40 PM |
Oh the drama, as if people are actually advocating going around randomly shooting pit bulls.
Look back in this thread. Someone brought up shooting pit bulls that were strays, and it's that point (and someone else's suggestion that they be completely wiped out) that I've been arguing against.
If there were a law passed against them the most likely route to phase them out would be mandatory castration. What's the problem there
The government uniformly mandating castration of people's pets is the problem. My close friend and his family has raised (and bred) pit bulls for 15 years without an incident. During that time they've raised 2 children alongside the dogs. What right does the state have to step in and say they can no longer breed these dogs? | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 4:31:52 PM |
Look back in this thread. Someone brought up shooting pit bulls that were strays, and it's that point (and someone else's suggestion that they be completely wiped out) that I've been arguing against.
Quite frankly anybody who is advocating shooting stray dogs should be considered beneath your arguing with and their ideas will never happen because they're.....stupid.
The government uniformly mandating castration of people's pets is the problem. My close friend and his family has raised (and bred) pit bulls for 15 years without an incident. During that time they've raised 2 children alongside the dogs. What right does the state have to step in and say they can no longer breed these dogs?
If the state compiled the statistics of how violent these dogs can be, and the damage that only they can do when they do go into berserker mode I'd say they would have a very good argument of doing what is best for public safety.
Your argument is like saying your friend has an illegal weapon in his home. He has owned it for 15 years without incident, that doesn't mean it's OK. | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 5:52:12 PM | Bottom line, Inherently Dangerous Dogs should be as hard to get as GUNS are in Canada.
I see no reason why a Pitt Bull or Rottweiler shouldn't require the same paperwork and background checks as a gun owner must go through to register their dog as a "Deadly Weapon".
In fact, it might help people to be FAR more responsible with them...and jail those who do not take the proper precations. | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 6:14:47 PM | | For the most part I agree with what you're saying except that Rottweilers are not very similar other than being big, strong, capable dogs. Do a bit of research and you'll find that they've been around for far longer and have had many more opportunities to accumulate these black marks, yet VERY, VERY rarely are involved in such events. | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:33:46 PM | Generally I agree with that too, assuming Pits are not actually banned as a breed. They are indeed "a deadly weapon", and need to be treated that way, with great respect and awareness. Plus responsible ownership is crucial. If they are ultimately banned by society, it won't take the form of going around neighborhoods shooting them. They will be captured by the appropriate parties and eventually humanely euthanized.
However I wouldn't take issue with shooting one which was in the process of attacking a child, or a human being of any age, for that matter. Because that person's chances of survival would be quite small at that point.
Rotts are the second most dangerous breed we find in some abundance, and they certainly do kill people too. But they don't approach the level of Pit Bulls, nor are their bites, or their demeanor, nearly as potentially destructive or as strong. And, they are a pure breed.
-Suth'nBoy
| |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:54:19 PM | ^^
I just wanted to thank you, SuthnBoy, for your posts.
I have found them all very insightful and helpful in my choice regarding taking a stand on this issue.
~A wise man is worth much more than silver and gold.~  | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 9:21:50 PM | I just wanted to thank you, SuthnBoy, for your posts.
Well gee, thank you Apologist~D.A! What a nice thing to say. 
Truth be known, I have found your posts very insightful and interesting as well.
I feel pretty strongly about this particular issue, because we've had several Pit Bull attacks in my area in particular. Some have not survived them, and a number of people will never be the same again, due to these heinous encounters. I can't imagine a worse way to die, or to be forever seriously maimed. And it troubles me even more when small children have been involved. Usually the children of unwary or uneducated owners, in those cases.
So I have researched it at some length, feeling there's got to be a reasonable solution to the problem. A problem that unfortunately, I believe we have created for ourselves, for all the wrong reasons.
-Suth'nBoy
| |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:52:46 PM | OddAndy
What right does the state have to step in and say they can no longer breed these dogs?
I don't think the state should try and circumvent your neighbors breeding pitbulls.
I do think the state should make your neighbors have a fence around their yard. Do you agree????? | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/13/2008 8:29:53 AM | Here's one of the bigger problems with Pit Bulls. Owners do tend to know their dangerous potential, by stories and reputation, and usually take steps to restrain them in ways that would work well for most breeds. Be it heavy chains or strong fences and the like. But Pits often escape such restraints. They are exceptionally strong, in the legs and torso, and thier jaw strength is unequalled by any other breed. So they often find ways to get free regardless, such as breaking their chains. They are often quite difficult to contain, outside the presence of their owners.
Pit Bulls that are actually allowed to run around loose are a rarity. In every attack case I am aware of, overcoming restraints has been the case, either eventually breaking their bonds or digging their way out of an enclosed area, which they often seem determined to do.
So unfortunately, just knowing one or more are usually inside a fence, and/or chained, doesn't necessarily offer a great sense of security.
-Suth'nBoy
| |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/13/2008 7:39:54 PM |
unfortunately, just knowing one or more are usually inside a fence, and/or chained, doesn't necessarily offer a great sense of security.
I fully agree. The proposal that we as a community should snuff out stray pitbulls should be pre-empted by the responsible owners saying "Honey, make sure to crate the dog inside, or the neighbors will kill him if he gets out."
The proposed liberty to protect the community holds its greatest utility in Turning an irresponsible Pitbull owner into a Non-Pitbull owner. | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/13/2008 11:31:13 PM | There is a specific list of dogs that are automatically euthanized if brought to the pound and not picked up within one week. Pits are taken straight to the chamber if they show any sign of aggressive behavior here...no waiting a week.
A pitbull running around a neighborhood loose is like having a pet shark with legs running around loose. If I see one and it acts the least bit froggy, it gets a instant trip to Valhalla.
I've owned a Rottweiler. He was the sweetest dog you've ever seen, I trained him for Search & Rescue and he was absolutely MARVELOUS with kids. On the other hand, if he smelled crack on an adult he tried to rip their leg off...his own natural reaction...definitely not something I trained him for. He just flat didn't like the drug smell and it made him a bit difficult to use in bad neighborhoods....had to use the SHORT lead...lol | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/14/2008 3:04:26 AM | | Any breeding site you go to will tell you that pitbulls are generally docile towards people and make for great pets. If you want to make it into an attack dog, that's what it will be. | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/14/2008 3:54:29 AM | | Dang! I think people running around with guns waiting to shoot stray dogs is a lot scarier than a pitbull. What if they miss the dog and shoot a person? | |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/14/2008 6:50:16 AM | Any breeding site you go to will tell you that pitbulls are generally docile towards people and make for great pets. If you want to make it into an attack dog, that's what it will be.
Wow! I don't know what breeding sites that might be. PitBull Breeders perhaps. Pit-fight promoters sites?
However if someone really wants to know what the level of threat consists of, the Internet is flooded with heinous PitBull attack scenarios on humans, and even the children of their owners, in many cases. Well beyond any other breed.
How could we explain this to those many cases of death and permanent disfiguring by PitBull attack? Are they just wrong, and those things never happened?
-Suth'nBoy 
| |
|
| Attention Civic Thinkers: *PITBULLS*
Posted: 3/14/2008 9:35:18 AM | How about the fact that the American Temperament Test Society gives your average American Pit Bull Terrier a pass percentage of 84.3%. The average of all breeds is 81.5%
Every breed of Dachshund except for the miniature long haired ranked lower than the pitbull. I guess we should ban dachshunds too.
Death/permanent disfiguring has nothing to do with the temperament of the dog. That has to do with how destructive the dog gets during an attack. There are several other dog breeds that can get just as destructive IF they decide to attack a person. | |
|
Home
login 
