| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 5:14:44 PM | Well, just in from work and read the thread..
I had to laugh.. some heated threads in here. This WAS totally hypothetical.. A cousin's ex husband told her this. Not mine.. though it could happen. I don't "think" he would do that to his kids but never say never.
I work full time, don't complain I don't get enough child support for the one child he is still supporting.. and that's only for another three years since my son is 15.
To the poster who said my question was sexist, you're right. Maybe the women they are marrying and cohabitating are just as much to blame for expecting the new partner to quit paying their child support. I don't know.. maybe? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 5:31:53 PM | | Men should not be treated as second class citizens with fewer rights than women. A woman can simply give her baby away and absolve herself from all responsibility for the rest of her life. Why do men not have this right? Blatant inequality and discrimination. Men should not be forced to pay child support or women should be forced into the same responsibility for the children they create. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 5:32:40 PM | "I have a bigger problem with women receiving full levels of support from multiple fathers (ie she has a 4 year old and a 3 year old and and both of the fathers are paying full support, when many items from the 4 year old can easily be recycled and used for the 3 year old."
Well then you would love Canada since, she would not only get full support for the first child's bio father but also be entitled to child support for the same child from the step father if they separated. So, she would infact get to collect full support for the 1st child, full support for the second child and what ever the difference would be between what the bio father pays and the step parent would pay (or what ever the judge thinks is fair, we know how good they are at calculating it). Pretty good deal if you can get 2.5 times the support for 2 children. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/8/2008 12:32:32 AM | Australia
To be able to get an order under section 66M the payer must be married, or have been married to a parent of the step-child (section 60D(1) of the Family Law Act).
New Jersey
Christensen v. Chrsitensen
In the 1991 case of JWP v. WW 255 NJS 1 (App Div 1991) the Court used the doctrine of estoppel to impose a child support obligation upon a step parent.
the Court stated that it was not ruling on the obligation of the biological father, and may well find, under appropriate circumstances, that both a biological and a step parent have concurrent child support obligations.
And also Michigan I read has the potential step parent obligation if both biological parents are not working and potentially unable to work.
But it does appear in the US much more reasonable than here in Canada regarding the pursuit of cs from step parents.
And I was not addressing yourself JayD in respect to your children. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:13:34 AM | my ex is in that scenario with a new family...step children...when our children have been to his house for their visits, they have not been treated equally.my ex begrudgingly pays support and has ended his relationship with our kids..his choice.this man can afford to pay at least 3x what he pays but i would be happy to settle for less but more then what he's now paying..he's self-employed and makes in excess of 100,00.00 and doesn't want to pay the little he does..yes there are women who do take advantage,but i am under the impression that a lot of men feel a woman shouldn't have any extra money for herself, that 100% should go to the kids...does he pay for them 100%? i think we are allowed to have a few spare dollars to spend on ourselves.
i'm certainly not jealous of the fact my ex has a new family..i was thankful to get rid of him!! what angers me is that many men don't give a hoot how their children suffer due to their lack of interest and support.when the children have grown and the dads want to be involved with them (of course not until they no longer have any financial obligation towards them),the children say no or have very little contact with them and the fathers wonder why?the reason i know this to be true is because i've had conversations with a couple of guys i know in that situation..i just laugh and shake my head..what goes around comes around!!
i know this isn't exclusive to just men,and i'm against any mother who does the same.i just don't know of any like that personally.
if i were to neglect and abuse my children in the fashion these "parents" do i would be up on charges with the C.A.S. why shouldn't they be charged? how do they get away with stating they can't afford to pay for the first children they produced? geesh if i had that attitude,my children would starve and be taken away from me in a heart beat. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:21:12 AM |
Men should not be treated as second class citizens with fewer rights than women. A woman can simply give her baby away and absolve herself from all responsibility for the rest of her life. Why do men not have this right? Blatant inequality and discrimination. Men should not be forced to pay child support or women should be forced into the same responsibility for the children they create.
Women should not be treated as second class citizens with fewer rights than men. A man can simply walk away from his baby and absolve himself from all responsibility for the rest of his life. Why do women not have this right? Blatant inequality and discrimination. Women should not be forced to get pregnant and give birth or men should be forced into the same responsibility for the children they create. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:27:30 AM |
New Jersey
Christensen v. Chrsitensen
In the 1991 case of JWP v. WW 255 NJS 1 (App Div 1991) the Court used the doctrine of estoppel to impose a child support obligation upon a step parent.
the Court stated that it was not ruling on the obligation of the biological father, and may well find, under appropriate circumstances, that both a biological and a step parent have concurrent child support obligations.
And also Michigan I read has the potential step parent obligation if both biological parents are not working and potentially unable to work.
But it does appear in the US much more reasonable than here in Canada regarding the pursuit of cs from step parents.
Amazing... even though the states are more "reasonable" about it - it shouldn't exist in any country. Unless a stepparent is going to have equal parental rights (accepted voluntarily and legally enforced), then a stepparent should not have parental responsibilities. "Double dipping" absolutely should not be allowed.
I've been a stepparent and will feel that I have a moral and emotional responsibility to my stepchildren until the day I die - I bear that responsibility freely - but according to US laws, I have no legal rights and don't believe I should have any legal responsibilities. | |
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| My two cents
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:45:57 AM | atxgirlie: We have no control over what someone else does. However, we can have control over our own life.
YES! That is exactly what I was going to say. I did what you did, I worked my a** off and did what I had to do to provide the best possible home environment I could for my daughter...I tried at the beginning to pursue child support but he just went home to his rich mommy and daddy...in Ecuador (lol) so there was no touching him. He was here in the states for business school. Anyway...after he moved, I never pursued him anymore, didnt want a cent of his money. I did it on my own. I think as single moms, because we are responsible for our situations, we have a responsibility to do whats necessary to make the best of it and raise the best kids possible.
To the Dads who DO pay child support because they love their kids, no matter what the wife does with the money, I have nothing but respect for you. Maybe it will help to know that eventually the kids will grow up and will hopefully understand what you have done to support them through the years and it will be her that will have some explaining to do. Keep your receipts! lol | |
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| My two cents
Posted: 3/8/2008 6:16:46 AM |
Women should not be treated as second class citizens with fewer rights than men. A man can simply walk away from his baby and absolve himself from all responsibility for the rest of his life.Why do women not have this right?
Nope, not true, men have no such right and women do. If taken to court he will be responsible for child support. We're talking about the law here. Which laws allow men to absolve themselves of responsibility for their children? Reproductive rights exist only for women. | |
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| My two cents
Posted: 3/8/2008 11:22:12 AM | | My ex works at the the same place as i do, makes the same money and tries her damndest to take as much time off as possible knowing full well its made up by higher support payment the following year! It drives me crazy! | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/8/2008 11:50:30 AM | | I disagree with your view....You like to tar all men with the same brush. I paid my child support for more than eighteen years. ( because my filthy, whore wife was unfaithful) . I never minded paying it and spent a lot of money on my children besides. It never stopped me from starting another family with a "decent" woman either. All the other men I know who paid child support ( because their filthy wives were also unfaithful ) feel the same way that I do. Perhaps you are associating with the wrong kind of men. Try avoiding dirt bags and losers. Maybe that is all you can find at the bars and taverns,, don't look there. | |
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leo379
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Joined: 8/30/2007
Msg: 38 | |
| My two cents
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:47:44 PM | | I couldn't agree with you more! My ex refuses to pay and of course I'm to blame for all his troubles. Little minds blame others. Of course the check would help like you said but as long as my kids grow up and become good people that's where my sights are set. I am there role model and they will follow in my footsteps and appreciate life even more if I hit life head on with determination. I kick myself everyday because I chose a man who was anything but decent. And not for me, for my kids, the pain and disappointment in there eyes breaks my heart everytime. | |
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gls2
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Joined: 3/4/2008
Msg: 39 | |
| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/9/2008 7:31:36 AM | | OK last time I checked, men can't just decide to not pay child support, unless there has been an OH I JUST DON'T WANT TO law passed. Sure there are ways And lets face it if a man is going to go to great lengths to forget his children, HE'S A LOSER AND I WOULD NOT WANT HIM ANYWHERE NEAR MY KIDS!!! Come on ladies, life does not revolve around child support, we do what we have to, to take care of our kids, if it means working three jobs ( which I did) then that is what we will do. Yes I missed alot in my sons life, but when we were together altho we did not have alot of money we had fun, he is 21 and still remembers building tents out of the cushions from the sofa and blankets, dancing in the kitchen to a song from the early 70's and taking out all the pans and making the space under the cabinet a cave, taking a picnic to the park , finding outside treasures and trying to figure out what they were...so seriously lets think about whats really important here... If you are afraid you are going to lose your support, start putting a few bucks away....just don't lose site of what is really important!!! | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:41:15 AM |
Women should not be treated as second class citizens with fewer rights than men. A man can simply walk away from his baby and absolve himself from all responsibility for the rest of his life. Why do women not have this right? Blatant inequality and discrimination. Women should not be forced to get pregnant and give birth or men should be forced into the same responsibility for the children they create.
What f-ing bullshit. If a biological mother doesn't want a child she can simply drop the child off at a hospital or police department and her obligation to the child is negated (this is law in every state in the U.S.). If the child's biological father (who has custody does it), he is arrested for child abandonment - and if he isn't, he will be obligated to pay CS to the state until the child is adopted.
Men who are anonymous sperm donors can be held liable for current (and back) child support if their identity is ever found out. If a woman anonymously donates her eggs, courts have ruled that they can not be obligated to pay support if their identity is found out.
Men in the U.S. do not have any reproductive rights, except for the right to be considered nothing but an ATM by the government and the child's mother for 18-22 years.
Quit drinking the feminist kool-aid, learn to think for yourself and become educated on a topic before posting such utter drivel. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:56:06 AM | "and if he isn't, he will be obligated to pay CS to the state until the child is adopted.
Men who are anonymous sperm donors can be held liable for current (and back) child support if their identity is ever found out. If a woman anonymously donates her eggs, courts have ruled that they can not be obligated to pay support if their identity is found out."
and here I thought our child support laws in Canada were bad.
In Canada the mother gets sole custody 65% of the time still in Canada and if the father wants equal access to the children he will most likely be accused of simply trying to lower his child support payments. Not that he would want to spend more times with his kids.
If the concept of shared parenting was established in Canada we wouldn't have the arguments over chld support where each parent wants to be an equal part of the childs life. It would be 50/50, you take care of them while their with you, I will take care of them when they are with me. But this was rejected by our minister of justice in Canada several years ago due to pressure from women's groups who are funded by none other than our Federal Government. Shared parenting would mean that they would lose not only the child support cheque but also the amount of decision making power and control that they currently have.
Hopefully the courts in canada will continue in the direction of joint custody first and start to embrace shared parenting and move away from mother custody so that we can be equals in our childrens lives. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/9/2008 7:14:57 PM |
and here I thought our child support laws in Canada were bad.
In Canada the mother gets sole custody 65% of the time still in Canada and if the father wants equal access to the children he will most likely be accused of simply trying to lower his child support payments. Not that he would want to spend more times with his kids.
In the state I live in (Indiana), women get custody over 95% of the time. When my ex and I divorced we went in asking that custody be 50-50... and the court originally denied it and tried to set my visitation to the state's recommended visitation schedule of every other weekend and every Wednesday night. My ex and I (who is a regional supervisor for Child Protective Services) had to provide the court with evidence that shared parenting was actually beneficial to a child.
Since then, I have started volunteering with a local father's rights group and know of at least a dozen other men who have gotten 50% custody of their kids based on the research that my ex and I did during our divorce. Hopefully, one of these days men won't have to fight so hard to get equal access to our kids. | |
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| My two cents
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:25:07 AM |
Nope, not true, men have no such right and women do. If taken to court he will be responsible for child support. We're talking about the law here. Which laws allow men to absolve themselves of responsibility for their children? Reproductive rights exist only for women.
As soon as you go have an abortion... then you can talk about how great it is to have that "right". As it has been mentioned a million times before - men's reproductive rights are before the sperm leaves his body (women's reproductive rights end long before the egg/fetus leave the body according to current laws).
If the conservatives have their say, you should be thrilled - women won't have the "right" to have an abortion... then we'll have lots of unwanted children around, being abandoned, neglected, abused - for the taxpayers to support. Wonder if you'll think it "fair" then? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:35:21 AM |
What f-ing bullshit. If a biological mother doesn't want a child she can simply drop the child off at a hospital or police department and her obligation to the child is negated (this is law in every state in the U.S.). If the child's biological father (who has custody does it), he is arrested for child abandonment - and if he isn't, he will be obligated to pay CS to the state until the child is adopted.
Funny, if I refuse to buy my children food, clothing or provide shelter, I will be arrested for child neglect, child endangerment and so on. I will have my children removed and placed in foster care and may well lose them permenantly.
My exhusband decides not to pay child support - or makes bare minimum payments of $10/month (just enough to avoid jail time) which is HIS portion of our child's food, clothing, shelter, etc. and what happens? Not a damn thing (trust me, that is the truth - he's over $22,000 in arrears as of this month). If he wanted to see our son, he'd still have the legal right to do so (he doesn't, so it isn't like the guys who provide for their kids by buying them clothing, shoes, etc., either).
I posted that statement as a mirror to the one posted by a man who has painted ALL women with the same brush. I was making a statement that as unfair as the situation CAN be to some men, it can also be to some women as well and that it is NOT right to paint all of one gender with the same brush.
Face it, there are ***holes on BOTH sides of the fence. Loser and users of EACH gender. Some are just worthless POS and others are genuine predators out to hurt the other as much as possible, with no regard to the children involved.
All the *good* parents (custodial and noncustodial) can do is stand strong and try to raise our children to the best of our ability - even when life isn't fair. Painting all women or all men as conniving, deceitful, moneyhungry, moneygrubbing, neglectful, irresponsible or vindictive because of a few is wrong - wrong for us emotionally and wrong for our children. THAT was my point. Sorry my subtlety didn't read well. | |
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| My two cents
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:47:09 AM |
Have you not heard of a thing called ADOPTION?
Sure, so have the *millions* of children languishing in foster care, shelter care and residential treatment centers. It's called a fantasy for most of them. The system already can't handle the numbers of children already overburdening the system's resources - why do you think that adding millions more children is going to improve this situation?
We already don't have enough foster parents to care for the unwanted children. How many do you plan to adopt? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:49:43 AM |
Im probably gonna get a lot of negative replies about this, but.......... if you're gonna have kids ladies u really need to accept the fact the fact that you could be and probably will be on your own financially and emotionally
Damn, we women have just got to stop creating these children all by ourselves. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/10/2008 12:31:30 PM | "Since then, I have started volunteering with a local father's rights group and know of at least a dozen other men who have gotten 50% custody of their kids based on the research that my ex and I did during our divorce. Hopefully, one of these days men won't have to fight so hard to get equal access to our kids."
That is what we have been fighting so hard for up here in Canada as well. The concept of shared parenting though was rejected and sent back to committee by the minister of justice in 2001 and has never been heard from since then. We have though noticed a change in our courts over the past number of years where more and more men are getting joint custody or even sole custody. It should be 50/50 but as I have seen in another thread love and power are mutually exclusive. When it comes to custody and access it comes down to a power struggle and with mothers having the law and our government backing them up it will be an uphill fight to gain equality on this. | |
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