| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/11/2008 5:42:32 AM | i have to disagree with you chef8471, i know of 2 other couples who do have shared access and for them it's working out..i would have loved to have had that type of arrangement for the kids' sakes..it's so important for children to be involved with both parents..but in my situation it wouldn't have worked out..their father is an alcoholic and extremely verbally abusive.my kids were thankful that i left when i did.when they went for their visits with their dad,they felt like they were more of a burden to him then anything else..he has opted not to see them any longer.
unfortunately i would have to think there would be some downfalls to shared custody..opposing desicions on major issues would be one of those concerns, and differences of opinions regarding how the child should be raised.
initially i would'nt have a problem with not receiving child support if there were shared custody. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/11/2008 7:32:53 AM |
unfortunately i would have to think there would be some downfalls to shared custody..opposing desicions on major issues would be one of those concerns, and differences of opinions regarding how the child should be raised.
initially i would'nt have a problem with not receiving child support if there were shared custody.
How are differences of opinion post divorce any different than differences of opinions on what is best for the child that arise during the marriage. Except for the fact that post divorce the woman (typically the custodial parent) can use the child as a weapon and prevent the father from having access to their child, and still be able to extort a monthly stipend from the him to use however she sees fit. Seems like once again, men are being held denied rights, but incurring all of the responsibilities.
Also, the other problem with your premise regarding shared custody is that even parents who supposedly have shared custody are still required by most states to pay child support. Child support is based upon physical custody not legal custody; most states have laws stating that there can not be shared physical custody, only shared legal custody, and therefor child support must be paid.
In my state, even when a non-custodial parent has 50% visitation they are still responsible to pay child support equaling up to 33% of their salary (yes, for every 1% visitation you only get .3% to .5% credit towards your child support). | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/11/2008 12:12:09 PM | Ladies and men
I have two children , their dad is a lazy workshy arsehole but my kids love him, I get 5 pounds a fortnight approx 10 dollars I dont need him or his money you girls are strong an for the men takin care of ur kids u r too **** ur exes they aren't worth shit sure u might struggle for money but you manage and you are amazing ur exes cant say the same and ur kids will respect that when they are old enough to understand
well done to all u single mummies and daddies u did it and are doing it on your own and no amount of money can buy that
Cx | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/11/2008 1:17:26 PM | so u should only pay for the time u get with our children
I wish this was the case,because if it was the more financialy responsable man would have custody and the women would have less to complain about..They could finally try and use that equality in the work force we gave them and get a gob of there own on there own credability..and stop cashing in with the supreme courts help because of the fact they are women,,it's only setting women back into the days where they were treated as nothing more then home makers or in legal terminology,,care givers ..so much for the womens movement ,,its obviously become all about getting more or everything and not about equality at all.. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/11/2008 2:26:08 PM | "so u should only pay for the time u get with ur children? "
If Canada finally embraced shared parently where the kids get to spend equal time with both parents then yes to the question above. Oh, wait that means there wouldn't be that child support cheque each month, silly me, because that is what it is about. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 2:07:36 AM | You guys are priceless....I have not heard one comment from alot of the complainers about the children in the cicumstances the OP has described.
eastindyguy....those who complain loudest are often the biggest frauds. You are a piece of work.
Chef,
I am surprised at your attitude. From previous threads I know that you would never calculate time spent with your kid to the amount you pay to support her every month to her Mom.
And to the british slag, perhaps you should concentrate more on finding someone that won't put you in a position of being the wicked step-monster.... | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 8:29:00 AM | Sorry, should have been more clear in my post. I believe that if each parent takes care of their children 50 /50 then no support should be paid. I did mean that if I have my daughter lets say 4 days a month that if I had her a 5 or 6th day that the child support should go down.
Shared parenting would remove the dollar figure from the equation and allow each parent to be a partner in each of the children's lives, rather than one being the primary care giver and the other being relegated to being a wallet. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 9:19:24 AM | chef:
Now I will perhaps break from you in respect to the premise of 50/50 shared parenting should result in no cs being paid.
I do not disagree with the premise of some equalization of household lifestyles.
But I also do not feel that a person who works hard and has worked hard to succeed should then be penalized or found contributing to someone who has been lazy or lacking effort in the career choice
However I also would like the system to have the same rules or expectation for both parties in respect to financial obligations in respect to raising ones children. I do not accept or follow liz in regards to being allowed to stay at home part time or full time as part of quality parenting roles. That requires either society or the other parent to be assisting in that choice of lifestyle.
And if a parent does choose to stay home part time or full time then both the mother or the father should have their income potential imputed for full time work and then the 2 household incomes are examined in respect to providing for the children in both households. This includes examining other adults living in the house and potentially second or step sibling . This would eliminate children of second families be regarded or treated less importantly than the children of first families.
But this is a hot button item or idea for many woman who place the needs or importance of themselves and their children above anything or anyone else.
There is among woman a problem or an unease between stay at home mothers and those who venture out and earn a livelyhood.
There are those who are legitamtely ones who feel they should be home and there are those who simply have not succeeded and are cloaking themselves in motherhood to avoid the reality of failure.
Great new Reality TV show shows the tension or animosity between woman who work and contribute like they expect men to do and woman who stay at home and expect the man to foot the financial requirements alone.
Some Day My 9-to-5 Job Will Come
A reality show gives stay-at-home moms the chance to get back in the workplace—and the feedback gets downright ugly.
TLC's online message boards were jammed with comments from women outraged that Adrian would choose a career over being a stay-at-home mom (SAHM in parent lingo). The posts said the premise of the show is "sick" and Adrian is "selfish." One mom wrote, "Let's show the other side of the story … how the kids' world is going to be turned upside down by having to go to day care." Another woman goes even further: "Unless you're about to starve there is no reason for you to be at work. If you didn't want to raise your children, you should not have had them. It's child abandonment."
<div class='quote'>http://www.newsweek.com/id/120362?GT1=43002 | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 9:30:20 AM | I'm truly sorry that any man or woman who is a parent would use this as an excuse NOT to pay initial child support.
Then again I feel bad for anyone who lets something like this get to them.
No offense but if you are the custodial parent then I would imagine you would do everything in your power to support your children minus any funds from the ex. We all know what a deadbeat one's ex is because of blah blah blah.... GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON.
If your children mean that much to you then don't use them as YOUR meal ticket.
Get an education, get a job.
Sure the other half of your child/ren should take some responsibility where they are concerned but the sad reality is most don't.
Get over it and do what YOU have to do to ensure your children's happiness.
Just my opinion. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 10:58:21 AM | jayn didnt insult men or women I was simply pointing out that when a relationship goes bad in the majority of cases women are left quite literally holding the baby and they should think about that before they start a family, I'm not saying its all down to the women of course it isnt but men to a certain extent do get to walk away
cee | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 11:09:56 AM |
jayn didnt insult men or women I was simply pointing out that when a relationship goes bad in the majority of cases women are left quite literally holding the baby and they should think about that before they start a family, I'm not saying its all down to the women of course it isnt but men to a certain extent do get to walk away
Please reconsider your use of a majority of men. And realize that the quote I have left is for men who have the money or ability to contest custody or access. Most lawyers will tell fathers the chances or reality of obtaining custody is not good. But woman will continue to harp on the fathers who walk or abandon the children either immediately or after a few years.....but they also remain silent about those cp who deny access...thwart access and otherwise obstruct the relationship between the child and the other parent.
A study by Joseph McNabb of Laboure College found that mothers obtained sole physical custody 83.2 percent of the time, fathers obtained sole custody 8.8 percent of the time, and joint custody was only awarded 8 percent of the time.
That's a devastating number for fathers who want to be meaningful parts of their children's lives
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/03/11/dont_leave_fathers_out_of_custody_cases/ | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 11:11:12 AM | | She isnt asking the woman because it is a knoewn fact that MEN are in the habit and think its ok to keep breading and forget the first child. I ve heard it all. My ex has only just started paying child support after 9 years of nowt thanks to the CSA. He stopped payments and didnt have as much access when hes daughter was born.MEN, If you cant afford to pay for your children then why go and have more? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 11:30:25 AM | | west get off ur high horse the MAJORITY of men walk away free of any responsibility and iv no doubt these guys want to c their children but they dont have the 24/7 responsibility of caring for them no matter how much they say they could handle it im sure MOST not all but MOST couldnt handle it as i have stated in previous posts i have been on both sides of this arguement so i know what im talking about | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 11:42:53 AM | Ceecee;
"west get off ur high horse the MAJORITY of men walk away free of any responsibility and iv no doubt these guys want to c their children but they dont have the 24/7 responsibility of caring for them no matter how much they say they could handle it im sure MOST not all but MOST couldnt handle it as i have stated in previous posts i have been on both sides of this arguement so i know what im talking about"
Could you provide a link or any other backup which shows that as you put it "the Majority of men walk away free of any responsibility" or is this just your opinion.
The issue I have have with your opinion above is that in Canada our government and agencies believe this and design laws around such statement without the fact to back it up. West has presented facts to support his argument, please do us the consideration of doing the same, if not, your statement above is simply irrelevant. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 11:50:26 AM | | im terribly sorry chef all men are great and all mothers suck is that better? i dont need to quote statistics to know that the majority of women are taking care of their kids and in case i didnt make it clear im not talking about EVERY MAN IN THE WORLD but the MAJORITY, and please feel free to give me statistics on this, of children are taken care of by the mother im not undermining fathers and if i have i apologise i know you men love your kids every bit as much as we mums do but and try to exempt ur personal feelings how many men to the ratio of women would WILLINGLY take FULL PARENTAL RESPONASABILITY? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 12:39:31 PM | Actually a good point is raised.
What about women who WERE stay at home parents and took a decade off of their career to care for kids, support the breadwinner in a demanding position or perhaps one such as an overseas one, and when divorce comes up, the comments about get a job, etc come up. I personally have been trying to regain ground for the past four years, I've doubled my income but the lost years definitely have affected my earning power. My ex makes double what I do.
After divorce, its one thing for the person who makes a better living to say that he would like joint custody etc to reduce child support but how is the other parent supposed to deal with the loss of earning potential.
These children are created by TWO people, not one. I'm personally tired of hearing the bickering about money and child support. Doesn't matter who the custodial parent, non custodial parent is.. IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.
I admire people who really don't give a crap about money and do the best to support their kids whether it means their own personal life style might suffer. For the ones, who constantly pick over what is and isn't fair in child support. Get over it and grow up.
You someday will have to face these grown up kids and answer the tough questions about why you didn't support them in the way you could have. Kids grow up and make their own moral judgements. They see one person go without and the other have it all. Don't think that doesnt' affect how they perceive their parents. Every person who suffers willingly for their kids will be able to HONESTLY tell their kids they did the best they could. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 1:50:04 PM | i didnt make it clear im not talking about EVERY MAN IN THE WORLD but the MAJORITY, and please feel free to give me statistics on this, of children are taken care of by the mother im not undermining fathers and if i have i apologise i know you men love your kids every bit as much as we mums do but and try to exempt ur personal feelings how many men to the ratio of women would WILLINGLY take FULL PARENTAL RESPONASABILITY?
Now I am not sure about chef but I did understand you were not saying you were not speaking about every man...but I also object and challenge the assertion that it is even the majority of men. The objections and complaints about the plight or lack of equal accountability in respect to the family courts is something that is now being heard world wide. Sir Bob Geldoff is someone who fought for custody or fought for shared custody yet lost to a recognized drug addict in family court. He now has custody after the mother of his child overdosed. But he had the money and the resources to fight for custody even though as expected he lost.
England
Scotland
Austria
Australia
Japan
Canada
USA
Norway
All have support groups and fathers groups all actively promoting the presumption of shared parenting roles in their children life. And we do it without the millions that woman's groups siphon off the respective governments.
Edward Kruk, a professor of social work at the University of British Columbia, conducted a two-country (Britain and Canada) study in the early 1990s on how divorce affects fathers. He concluded they are "judicially, culturally and legislatively disadvantaged on the basis of gender" when a marriage breaks down.
Donna Laframboise, Globe and Mail Who was a great woman who supported and was critical of the short end of the stick that fathers were given in the courts. she was also responsible for writing the piece about the woman's shelter in Winnipeg that supported or assisted in the false allegations of fathers to improve custody and access situations. It is unfortunate that she passed away.
It's often assumed that non-custodial fathers are disinterested in their children and undistressed by their absence. But Professor Kruk says the reality is quite different. After losing daily contact with their offspring, the fathers in his study passed through a grieving process similar to that felt by parents whose child has died. "Fifty-five per cent of fathers reported new physical health problems," says Prof. Kruk, "while 61 per cent described mental-health difficulties they had not experienced prior to the divorce." (Other studies indicate that divorced men are nine times more likely to be admitted to psychiatric hospitals, are at higher risk of suicide, and are twice as likely to be involved in automobile accidents during the six months leading up to and the six months following the divorce.)
Marina Forbister is a Calgary chartered accountant and president of the Equitable Child Maintenance and Access Society, an Alberta non-custodial parents' lobby group representing 1,500 families. Her spouse is a non-custodial father whose son - we'll call him "Robby" - lives with his mother in Regina. Ms. Forbister says the difficulties she and her spouse have experienced getting access to the boy are not uncommon; many members of her group have similar tales to tell.
Donna Laframboise, Globe and Mail
Ms. Forbister says she and the boy's father have driven to Saskatchewan only to discover that Robby's mother had left town with him. "We've never had him for Christmas, even though the court order says his father is to get him for half the holidays. We've never had him for a major holiday." The police - who insist denial of access is a "family matter" that should be sorted out by lawyers - are no help. Ms. Forbister tells of one police officer who said to them: "You seem like a nice couple. Go back home and forget you have a son in Regina."
I am confused regarding comments about my high horse. I have not denigrated or called anyone names unlike some others who support the premise that mothers or woman are hard done by. But please feel free to debate or show me the errors or faults in what i have had to say. I always like to say that I am open to intelligent dialogue and am willing to consider any logical and well thought out position and would like to think I do not have my head buried in the sand repeating old and faulty doctrine! | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 2:01:14 PM | west i apologise again as i have said i watched my ex go thru a very bitter custody fight which he lost an tho he doesnt pay for our kids he does love them which is definately more important the thing is there are good guys and bad guys on bithe sides but undoubtably always losers which tragically are the children i never have meant to tho clearly have insult anyone but a+s i sa+aid bad ppl on both sides whatever the motivation
cee | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 2:10:18 PM | my whole point thru this entire thread is not that women are hard done by nor that men are to blame i repeatedly watched my ex husband break down because he was denied access to hid daughter because he dared move on and yet have experiencied the repeated excuses to y he couldn't c the children we had together or contribute toward their upbringing i neither want or need his money or support yet i let him be a part of our childrens life for their sake and i apologise to anyone i have insulted but surely u must understand what i am saying? i am not tarring all men with the s+ame brush and i understand the legal system IS geared toward women but correct me if im wrong PLEASE DO but mothers seriously outweigh the number of fathers bringing up children?
cee | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 3:24:37 PM |
eastindyguy....those who complain loudest are often the biggest frauds. You are a piece of work.
And yet again you prove my point.
You can not argue a point logically, so you rely on emotional misdirection to another point, never answering a question asked of you or, as the quote above shows, you simply try to assassinate the character of anyone who makes a point you can't refute.
Maybe, instead of trying to tell everyone else how wrong thy are, you should attempt to learn how to argue a position and defend it logically. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/13/2008 3:58:32 PM | "but mothers seriously outweigh the number of fathers bringing up children?"
Since they are awarded custody over 80% of the, then yes I would agree with that statement since it is well established that your courts are biased. What I would not agree with is that above percentage is due to the majority of fathers not wanting to be involved in their childrens lives. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/14/2008 10:55:48 AM | | ok chef i concede but try not to be bia+sed how many men would take full cutody in your opinion? and just to clarify i'm not saying everyone is the same i know plenty of guys who could and would take better care of their kids than women but where does the majority lie with women or men? | |
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