| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/14/2008 1:05:18 PM |
ok chef i concede but try not to be bia+sed how many men would take full cutody in your opinion? and just to clarify i'm not saying everyone is the same i know plenty of guys who could and would take better care of their kids than women but where does the majority lie with women or men?
That's an impossible question to answer since so many men still don't believe they even have a chance of getting custody so they don't even try.
Up until 2006, in my state women were awarded custody of kids in 90% of cases where both the mother and father agreed that the father should have custody (women were awarded custody in over 98% of all cases). Who's to say how many of those men wanted custody of their kids but never had a fair chance to even try for them in court. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/14/2008 4:09:59 PM | | ok on topic and truth...when i was a child i remember all the parents ,,mothers and fathers ,,everyone had both ,,sitting around playing cards complaining about how expensive there kids were ,,hockey ,,dance lessons ,,name it ,,all the mom's and dads had a little **** .and laughed about some of the wasted money they spent ,,.but they all loved there kids and it had nothing to do with the fact they had us and still were all great parents..kids are expensive was there message..when they ****ed they were just looking for a thank you ..a little gratitude for there sacrificing ..it isn't just the dads who get devoiced like the OP is referring to ..i think honestly all parents complain about cost time and time again ..couples blame it on the tax man ,,but single mothers blame it on the ex..and single dads blame it on there ex..as far as starting the new family ,,obviously the man liked children ,,thats a no brainier .. they aren't cheap..but an ex wife with your children is very expensive ..and most are very unjust and un fair arrangements ,so he is allowed to complain ..the above arguments about how many women are awarded custody is nothing but criminal ..equal custody should be law..anything but is extortion and kidnapping .. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/14/2008 4:38:13 PM |
the above arguments about how many women are awarded custody is nothing but criminal ..equal custody should be law..anything but is extortion and kidnapping ..
If you asked both men and women if they would rather be raped or have their kids taken away from them, I think most would rather be raped. Both men and women would agree that the state commits a crime against men that is worse than rape. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/15/2008 7:42:42 AM | eastindyguy,
You can not argue a point logically, so you rely on emotional misdirection to another point, never answering a question asked of you <<<
I have just about had enough of your crap. I am not even sure what the question was that was directed to me on this thread.....are you mixed up..check the title of the thread your in.....
Please continue though....I am still trying to find a valid point of yours that condone men walking away from their own flesh and blood.....emotional response I know...but you know how women are! BTW...stay on topic..... | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/15/2008 10:04:26 AM | OP: Just because your relationship did not work out with your ex does not mean he should not find his Ms Right and start a new family. I think that is soar grapes on your part. What your ex should do is be a part of your (and his) children's lives and pay child support according to the tables. Both of you should worl together to help your children have a happy childhood. You are also free to find yourMr Right.
Many of the other posts talking about child custody issues...that was not what the OP was refering to at all. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/15/2008 11:39:28 AM | John;
good post
I think what allot of guys have to do though is prior to entering into a new relationship, either having more children or having step children, is ask themselves, can I afford this with the support I already pay for my first family and what happens if this relationship does not work out. A CP does not necessarily have to look at it through this lense since the financial risk is mostly on the borne by the other person coming in to the relationship as we have discussed before. A CP is also able to start new relationships I feel easier than a NCP since the financial risk is not there if the relationship breaksdown.
What CP does have to consider is the emotional impact on the children of the new relationship, which can be an equally daunting task as well.
I guess we have all seen relationships where the above is just not considered and the guy is somehow suprised when the relationship ends that he has to pay more child support for either additional children they had or for step kids but was already paying support for his first family. Too bad, because the laws are there and the courts have long held that prior to getting into any new relationship be prepared to ensure that you can take care of your first family first.
This does however have an unintended social consequence since those of us already paying support are leary of having to pay more since second marriages have a higher rate of divorce than the first. So, don't be suprised as stated in many other threads if guys back off because of it. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/15/2008 12:41:32 PM | | Very true Chef. I just hope the OP amd her ex (as well as their children) can put all of this behind them and move forward so all can find happiness while te children are supported financially and emotionally while also knowing all parents (both biological and step) love them and care about them. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/15/2008 12:53:30 PM | I totally agree.. Since I was the OP.. and this isn't me I was talking about ..
The ex is only paying for one kid now,, he doesn't pay for the other two which is still up for debate. He likely won't have to pay past 18 for our son since its unlikely he'll go to univeristy since he has quite a severe learning disabilty and will probably go to a trade school instead.
I'm sure he'll stop the day he turns 18.
I'm just amazed that men don't think of these things. I for one, wouldn't enter into a relationship with someone who would a. need my financial support in the future (hell, I have a hard enough time some times supporting me and the kids) b. has kids from a previous relationship where they aren't getting support from a dead beat c. has more kids when I am claiming hardship on the first family.
Just kinda makes me go hmmmmm...
Like the book says.. Men are from Mars. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/15/2008 3:09:14 PM | Green;
The thing is he can't just stop, if he does report him to FMEP and they will chase him for the money. He needs to be discharged from the obligation to pay by the courts or he has to continue paying.
What he should do is a few months prior to your son turning 18 is get the paperwork ready so that he can petition the court although I thought that the age of majority in BC was 19 and that is the age a ncp has to pay up to. I'm not sure what is in your agreement.
So, he cannot unilaterly decide to stop paying, he should go through the proper steps since if the child is not going on to post secondary school (btw trade school qualifies as post secondary) then your son can be declared no longer a child of marriage, hence an adult by the courts.
There is a right way to do these things and a wrong way, your ex has picked the wrong way. What I would have done with regards to your daughter is told you months in advance that I was putting through the paperwork for the above allowing her to go out and get a full time job since she is not in school. But he should have given notification of what his intentions were, not doing so is clearly wrong but collecting for an adult who is capable of working is also wrong in my opinion. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/16/2008 6:13:39 PM | ok may I ask a question hear since we are talking about child support...
What about us fathers who would gladly pay the child support, but the woman decides that the father should not see,contact, or otherwise know the well being of the child.. should we still have to pay..
My oldest daughter who is now 21 was kept from me since she was 2 years old.. we had a court order stating that I had visitation rights with 72 hours notice.. my ex would change phone numbers, move, unlisted numbers,told my daughter that I was dead, and would not even send me a picture of my daughter..
My daughter and I found each other when she was 18 through the web.. and have been in contact since.. her mother decided that she (the EX) should go after me for child support that I refused to pay because I could not know how my daughter was doing.. and I am currently having to pay for my daughter who has not even lived at home since she was 16....and is now 21.
I am open to any input good bad or ugly | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/16/2008 6:57:50 PM | has more kids when I am claiming hardship on the first family
I say get a job you mooch ,,whats with the hardship claim ? you cant work? that says it all to me ..
I am open to any input good bad or ugly
ok now you can be a dad again .your in canada ,,.move the daughter in with you ,,put her in unaveristy ,and then go for a custody change while she is wiith you ,and hit that gold digger up for unaversity cost .. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/16/2008 11:24:26 PM | ok now you can be a dad again .your in canada ,,.move the daughter in with you ,,put her in unaveristy ,and then go for a custody change while she is wiith you ,and hit that gold digger up for unaversity cost ....
for one thing you can not get custody of a 21 year old,
2nd the EX has no money.. she remarried and her current husband has been sitting in jail for the last 10 years and as far as I know she has been on social assistance to raise his 2 or 3 children | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/17/2008 5:07:16 AM | lizbeth? What the hell is your problem?
"You guys are priceless"
"eastindyguy....those who complain loudest are often the biggest frauds. You are a piece of work"
"I am surprised at your attitude"
^^^ SO much angst! ....
 Grrrr!
"And to the british slag, perhaps you should concentrate more on finding someone that won't put you in a position of being the wicked step-monster...."
^^^ To the british slag?  Whats that about?
I'll have whatever you're on liz.... lol
But on a note of seriousness - be careful, calling people 'slag' is report-worthy.
Ok, back to the thread - At the day, if YOU have children YOU should pay for them - Mother OR father. Children dont ask to be born and it is unfair that they should pay for their parents mistakes regarless who's at fault. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/17/2008 10:11:51 AM | Green;
"I'm just amazed that men don't think of these things. I for one, wouldn't enter into a relationship with someone who would a. need my financial support in the future (hell, I have a hard enough time some times supporting me and the kids) b. has kids from a previous relationship where they aren't getting support from a dead beat c. has more kids when I am claiming hardship on the first family."
As I have said above guys need to look before they leap, but if you search through other threads on here what you constantly hear when one says I cannot afford a new relationship is; you think all single mothers are just after your money, you shouldn't think so negatively towards a relationship, we are not real men since we don't want to take on the responsibility.
Yes, a guy has to think before he enters a relation but there also has to be a level of understanding that if we choose not to enter a relationship with a single mother due the financial risks involved that we are simply trying to support our first family. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:09:01 AM | I can see why it might be tough for young single mothers to find a man. Not only are they responsible for their first family but by being a "parent" to her kids, they could end up paying child support for them as well.
If I had dangly bits, it would have to be a pretty amazing relationship in order to get me to make a committment like that. I think without the dangly bits, I'd rather poke my eyes out with a sharp stick than have to negotiate child support with anyone else every in my lifetime. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:50:45 AM | people like with your opinions make me sick
I have two children and pay child support(and don't **** about it) and miss them very much
It is not my fault me and her couldn't make it work
and if I did later find someone I could be with for the rest of my life why shouldn't I want to(and have children with her)
ONE TRACK MINDED PEOPLE IN MY OPINION ARE IGNORANT | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/17/2008 12:49:44 PM |
Please continue though....I am still trying to find a valid point of yours that condone men walking away from their own flesh and blood.
Please go back and read post #2. I was the first reply in this thread, and I stated that I am disgusted by men who don't support their children... so you obviously haven't paid too much attention to what I have said if you think I was condoning such actions. But yet again, this is you changing the argument from the points I made, to you attempting to say that I condoned men abandoning their children financially.
Please go back and reread this thread. Your first message is message #87 in this thread, and it was an insult directed at me, and other men who feel we are taken advantage of by the family court system when it comes to having to pay child support. You came in with a holier-than-thou attitude and anytime anyone disagreed with you you called them names, or changed the original argument of yours that they replied to.
So yes, you really need to;
...stay on topic.....
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/17/2008 12:59:07 PM |
ok may I ask a question hear since we are talking about child support...
What about us fathers who would gladly pay the child support, but the woman decides that the father should not see,contact, or otherwise know the well being of the child.. should we still have to pay..
My oldest daughter who is now 21 was kept from me since she was 2 years old.. we had a court order stating that I had visitation rights with 72 hours notice.. my ex would change phone numbers, move, unlisted numbers,told my daughter that I was dead, and would not even send me a picture of my daughter..
My daughter and I found each other when she was 18 through the web.. and have been in contact since.. her mother decided that she (the EX) should go after me for child support that I refused to pay because I could not know how my daughter was doing.. and I am currently having to pay for my daughter who has not even lived at home since she was 16....and is now 21.
I am open to any input good bad or ugly
Why didn't your daughter live at home with her mother since she was 16? Was someone else caring for her (relatives of some sort), or was she away at school? If someone else was caring for her, both you and your ex owe that party child support for those years. If she was simply away at school, your ex is still technically her guardian and is still owed support.
Visitation and child support are completely different issues with no connection in the eyes of the court (except for making allowances for parenting time when computing child support). It doesn't matter if your ex interferes with visitation - you are still required to pay the ordered child support. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/17/2008 1:48:08 PM | It's great to hear that most women are receiving child support from their ex's,and also good to hear that some of the ex's are ok about giving support,not just financial.
In my situation,and in England,men and women get away with paying any child support and there are NO concequences.
In my personal situation,my ex has got away with nearly 6 years of non payment! I am currently trying to sort this out,as i have been since my son was born nearly 6 yrs ago.
I work full time,and struggle financially. He cannot and will not get away with it much longer hopefully,but i don't hold out much hope of getting a penny from him. The child support agency is a load of pants in this country. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:41:00 AM | As for our feelings towards paying support...
Yes, we hate paying support because many times it is used by the mother to provide her with things instead of providing for the child. My ex is a prime example of women like this.
Despite the fact that she makes half of what I do she has a similarly sized house.............blah.......blah.......bbblahhhh....
^^that was a snipet from your post in msg #2. In your message, your explaining and giving reasons for why *some* men feel justified in not paying support for the kids that they helped to create.
It is funny how alot of men interput the phrase "child suppport" into an obligation that is based totally on what the finacial loss might be for them.
I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me regarding the unfairness that exists in the court system....What I have a problem with is tainted opinions from people such as yourself who don't have the ability to sympathize outside of your own situations...unless it is to make a politically correct opening remark....which is exactly what you did in msg #2.....If you feel like your taken advantage by the court system....then do something about it...
I am on topic...have always been on topic...you went off topic in msg #2 when you decided to give examples and excuses for why some men desert their first families. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/19/2008 8:35:52 AM | Lizabeth;
Like you I don't think it is justified in any way to stop paying support if the ncp feels that the money is not being spent properly. In a case such as that I feel that part of the role of what we call in BC Family Maintenance Enforcement should be to have the ability to audit how the monies are spent. This would only be allowed lets say once every 5 to 7 years so that it does not open it up to abuse by the former partner. Also, if nothing material is found then the cost of the audit is billed back to the requesting party. So those that request an audit better be dam sure that they facts prior to requesting one.
As for doing something about the court system and its inherent bias. I and other tried for years, the result we felt was the Joint Senate Committe on Custody and Access headed by Senator Anne Cooles. In their report they recommended shared parenting as the model to go forward to make both parents equal partners in their child's life. It was unfortunately sent back to committee by the then minister of justice due to the protests from women's groups and advocates within various federal ministries. Some of us have tried and the results have been the same, no change.
Funny though when the changed the child support from taxable to non-taxable in 1995 in Canada there were no howls of protest and every ministry wanted to take credit. Strange how that only took a short while to get through but changes to custody and access laws were rejected. Again, comes down to power and money. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/21/2008 12:44:57 AM | chef,
I am well aware of how unfair the court system can be when the judges make rulings based on the current laws and how they are written. Trust me, me and my children have suffered the consequences of the current laws and rules that are in place these days.
It dosen't take much to ignite a spark and fuel the fire of annomosity between seperated/divorced parents.
I agree with you it is more about control for some people than it is about the welfare of the children....on both sides.
I think sometimes we have all forgotten the good things we saw in our ex's at one time....it couldn't have been as bad as we make it seem....or none of us would have really great kids...right? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/21/2008 6:03:15 PM | i have read all posts and i can see this topic will always be heated.I was chatting one day in work and came across this. Maybe somebody can make sense or logic of it as it appears the normal behaviour in Ireland. I was wondering how an ex paid or seen nothing for yrs went to court got high maintence order but also overnite access for 2 days later plus guardianship. So children were treated like dirt, n he left his job. she fought for her childrens rights for over 6 mths but won he admitted he did not wish to see them. Then following wk moved in with a woman with two children. He now pays their children nothing becouse they cant afford it.
So at least these guys are starting family with someone not walkin away to pay n rear someone elses.
For her they are ok as she knows both her girls deserve better but there are alot of single parents in Ireland being messed about by our out of date family laws. Why do men do this to their children? How do parents explain when they meet ex in stores and he holding someone elses childrens' hand?
Does this not in the long-term affect his childrens well-being? What must they feel inside looking at this? | |
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